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Exalted 3E Discussion

Reader mode
I'm trying to get the general consensus on 3e. This is what it seems to be:

GOOD
- Combat system
- Sorcerous workings
- Some of the new charms are cool
- Some parts of the map which were previously kinda boring are now less boring

BAD
- Setting consistency is deliberately ignored
- Tries too hard to be different for the sake of being different
- Throws out multiple babies along with some reasonably usable bath-water
- Some non-combat subsystems (craft, thaumaturgy) worse than previous, which takes talent

UGLY
- Very slow release of new products, so right now you're stuck with Solar or nothing
- Team has terrible PR


TELL ME ABOUT
- Social combat
- Social interactions which are not combat
- Mass combat
- Creation-Ruling Mandate (is it good to be the king?)
- GM prep time (is it easier to run than 2e or 2.5e? how much?)
 
If you want Artifacts to have entire suites of powers, that's fine. Costing development elsewhere is not. Have the Evocations unlock when accomplishments happen(like Black Wind from the corebook), or naturally overtime as XP is expended on other things(similar to how Essence increases).

evildice said:
TELL ME ABOUT
- Social combat
- Social interactions which are not combat
- Mass combat
- Creation-Ruling Mandate (is it good to be the king?)
- GM prep time (is it easier to run than 2e or 2.5e? how much?)
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No such thing as social combat, it's all social influence now. And it all depends on Intimacies. Can't persuade someone to do something without an appropriately strong and applicable Intimacy, or by using bribes(called a bargain action), or fear(called a threaten action). You can instill or erode Intimacies to give yourself the openings you need for persuasion, but strengthening them beyond the minor level or eroding one at all requires a supporting Intimacy.

You have two defensive stats called Resolve and Guile. Resolve is about resisting someone changing your mind, giving you a new intimacy, or eroding an existing Intimacy. Guile is about keeping your motives hidden, primarily used to defend against the 'read intentions' action, which can tell someone what your immediate goal is for a social interaction and with some difficulty, ferret out what some of a character's Intimacies are.

Mass combat is better in 3E, but that's not a high bar. Instead of units of soldiers being a pair of pants to put on, the battlegroup is represented as a character itself with certain changes to mechanics. A battlegroup can be enhanced by having a commander, and they get really scary when a commander has War Charms.

Creation-Ruling Mandate... it's not mentioned by name, and the best interpretation of what is mentioned is that it was given to the Exalted as a whole, not just the Solars. Not to my taste, as I prefer for Solars to hold the Mandate.

GM prep time... ha. There's no Storytelling chapter, so it takes some work.
 
evildice said:
GOOD
- Combat system
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Disagree.
- Some parts of the map which were previously kinda boring are now less boring
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Always an option with a capable storyteller and creative players.
TELL ME ABOUT
- Social combat
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Better than it was, and no longer trying to use the same system as combat. Still imperfect.
- Social interactions which are not combat
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Would be roleplaying, no?
- Mass combat
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Good, astonishingly.
- Creation-Ruling Mandate (is it good to be the king?)
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I don't recall seeing anything of the sort.
- GM prep time (is it easier to run than 2e or 2.5e? how much?)
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It requires the total replacement of an entire system. Official Quick NPC rules may improve things if you haven't got a handle already; I do, so I don't see a difference.
So, roughly the same. You'll need houserules, Exalts will still need charms, all of that.
No improvement, and we've yet to see the clusterfuck that'll be extra charms in later books.
 
Valette-Serafina said:
Disagree.
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Interesting! I had been under the impression that the combat system was generally liked.

Can you talk about some of the 3e combat system's flaws?

Valette-Serafina said:
Always an option with a capable storyteller and creative players.
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Sure, but a sufficiently capable GM with sufficiently creative players doesn't need any rules, so that's not a useful yardstick to me. The new map isn't as good as some other maps I've seen, but it does seem to have a few more regions of potential interest.

tehelgee said:
Mass combat is better in 3E, but that's not a high bar. Instead of units of soldiers being a pair of pants to put on, the battlegroup is represented as a character itself with certain changes to mechanics. A battlegroup can be enhanced by having a commander, and they get really scary when a commander has War Charms.
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That sounds pretty intuitive.

Sydonai said:
Attempts to ask the devs/writers for advice on the subject were effectively answered with "You are trying to play MY Game the wrong way!".
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Uuuuuuuugh.
 
evildice said:
Interesting! I had been under the impression that the combat system was generally liked.

Can you talk about some of the 3e combat system's flaws?
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Perfect turtling's gone, as are major flurries. Positive there. That said, the number of ways Charms interact with rerolls is... Dreadful. I covered that earlier in this thread, I believe.
Charm reset conditions will be a pain to GM, of course.

The initiative system will require more bookkeeping mid-combat than Ex2 required.

The divide between what the player is trying to do and what the character is trying to do bugs me. I've always hated systems that muddle that up.

The range system is vague, and does not account for a combat with more than two characters. I've seen it before, at that. They had the time to come up with a fix for that issue.

Gambits. I see what they were trying to do, but the fact remains that Stunts are a thing. That's what stunts are for, and the framework they laid down is something they did no work with.
 
Anasurimbor said:
I must admit I'm rather confused how expanding the Evocation system is "Solar cock-sucking".
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IIRC Only Solars are allowed to have all of the Evocations, the strongest ones are locked out to other character types.
Plus Solars can use the Evocations of any Artifact while other characters are limited to only Artifacts made out of their corresponding Magical Material.
 
Skitzyfrenic said:
+1 to that. Though I never got a chance to play the first edition, but I hear it was a clusterfuck of mechanics.
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Yeah......It functioned? at Hero level, but very soon started to explode with all sorts of pretty fireworks.

Storyteller was just not meant to model characters for a game like Scion.

What I've seen so far of 2nd makes me tenatively hype.
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I'm a bit more than tentatively hyped. Revlid's confirmed that he's one of the guys working on it and from both his commentary on things and from some of things the writers talked about during the kickstarter, a lot of effort has gone into not just the game itself, but also into researching the mythologies and cultures involved so they can have as accurate and respectful a portrayal as possible.
 
Sydonai said:
IIRC Only Solars are allowed to have all of the Evocations, the strongest ones are locked out to other character types.
Plus Solars can use the Evocations of any Artifact while other characters are limited to only Artifacts made out of their corresponding Magical Material.
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Not really. Solars are said to be the best at Evocations, but that doesn't mean that they are better than other Exalts with their respective Magical Materials, or even that they can necessarily access every Evocation, just that they can wield all magical materials with equal facility. But only Solars have a natural affinity for Orichalcum.

The big winner here is the Dragon-Blooded. Evocations are one of their big advantages, as they can forge deeper bonds with their Artifacts than any save the Solars. They have a particular focus on inheritance and heroic legacy—which is one of the things apparently emphasized in the new Evocations. Some rare DBs *cough* PCs *cough* can even learn to master tools meant for Solars alone.
 
Anasurimbor said:
I must admit I'm rather confused how expanding the Evocation system is "Solar cock-sucking".
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"Solars R teh Bestests Artifact useres evah!!1!"

It's a system they designed for Solars to excel in.
Anasurimbor said:
Not really. Solars are said to be the best at Evocations, but that doesn't mean that they are better than other Exalts with their respective Magical Materials, or even that they can necessarily access every Evocation, just that they can wield all magical materials with equal facility. But only Solars have a natural affinity for Orichalcum.

The big winner here is the Dragon-Blooded. Evocations are one of their big advantages, as they can forge deeper bonds with their Artifacts than any save the Solars. They have a particular focus on inheritance and heroic legacy—which is one of the things apparently emphasized in the new Evocations. Some rare DBs *cough* PCs *cough* can even learn to master tools meant for Solars alone.
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Believe it when I see it.

On that subject, Creation isn't a functional setting without rules for the Terrestrial Exalted.
 
Valette-Serafina said:
"Solars R teh Bestests Artifact useres evah!!1!"

It's a system they designed for Solars to excel in.
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Tool using is one of the fields of human achievement in which Solars should excel, especially if it is to forge a personal bond with a legendary item (*cough*NoblePhantasm*cough*)
It's certainly more legitimate in my eyes that the quasi-sorcery 'summon artifacts and tools' in Craft.
 
Bre Karn said:
Tool using is one of the fields of human achievement in which Solars should excel, especially if it is to forge a personal bond with a legendary item (*cough*NoblePhantasm*cough*)
It's certainly more legitimate in my eyes that the quasi-sorcery 'summon artifacts and tools' in Craft.
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Yes, but alternatively they could have had good Craft Charms. A good Melee/Thrown/Archery Charm or two dedicated to the subject would have been good, too.

This is going to be just like Ex2 Sorcery.
 
So, I had an idea of a Solar Eclipse Caste and their anima banner, and I thought of Biigoh.

Real tricky and deceitful type, good with disguises, maybe Sorcery too. Not serious at all, full of sake and food. Somehow slender and athletic.

Iconic anima is a really pudgy and sleepy tanuki, looks really Snorlax-ish. Big 'ol fluffy tail, swaying hypnotically back and forth. Big testicles/boobs optional.

Solar gets hit in a fight, tanuki flops over, flails ineffectually for a moment, falls asleep. Solar gets hit again, tanuki grumps, levers self up via tail, huffs, falls asleep sitting up.

A real entertaining character. In my head, anyway.
 
tehelgee said:
So, I had an idea of a Solar Eclipse Caste and their anima banner, and I thought of Biigoh.

Real tricky and deceitful type, good with disguises, maybe Sorcery too. Not serious at all, full of sake and food. Somehow slender and athletic.

Iconic anima is a really pudgy and sleepy tanuki, looks really Snorlax-ish. Big 'ol fluffy tail, swaying hypnotically back and forth. Big testicles/boobs optional.

Solar gets hit in a fight, tanuki flops over, flails ineffectually for a moment, falls asleep. Solar gets hit again, tanuki grumps, levers self up via tail, huffs, falls asleep sitting up.

A real entertaining character. In my head, anyway.
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Caste symbol obviously shines right through the leaf on his and/or her forehead.
 
Stroth said:
If you need a spreadsheet to keep track of a basic combat system, then it's too complicated.
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There's no formulas or anything else on that sheet, it's just an empty table. Visually easier to read quickly than plain text in a document. You could do the same thing with a blank sheet or paper, or even use something like a pair of ten sided dice for a counter.

The complaints about 3E's initiative being too complex or time-consuming to keep track of boggles the mind. You never hear that complaint about D&D's hitpoints, despite the same kind of bookkeeping.
 
tehelgee said:
The complaints about 3E's initiative being too complex or time-consuming to keep track of boggles the mind. You never hear that complaint about D&D's hitpoints, despite the same kind of bookkeeping.
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You might perhaps note that Ex3's Health Levels are more complex to track than D&D's hit points, and must also be tracked. I might also point at Essence, for that matter.
 
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