Nervaqus987
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Why do you do this to yourself?
It seems like it causes unnecessary suffering.
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General World of Darkness Discussion Thread QQ Edition
- Thread starter Maragas
- Start date
Why do you do this to yourself?
It seems like it causes unnecessary suffering.
shadowdice
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I am writing a story right now which is specifically about a conspiracy theorist Gangrel setting fire to things and comes off as completely deranged from an outside perspective.
Camarilla Gangrel: I have deciphered these letters written in ancient Hebrew about a horrific abomination beyond all mortal and immortal ken waiting in the depths of the sea. It is obviously Lilith insanity, I feel like it is a hate crime, but I now need to torture a rabbi to find out the names of the collaborators. Maybe this would be less horrible if I had a Jewish vampire jump onboard?
Sabbat Tzimisce: It is completely and totally morally righteous to burn a heretic to just before the point of final death and diablerize their screaming and agony ridden form.
Camarilla Gangrel: Are they really covered by the traditions if they consider themselves Setites rather than Cainites, that they aren't kindred is in the name
Sabbat Tzimisce: Eat their souls and leave the ashes to make their congregation despair before torturing them.
Camarilla Gangrel: I feel really bad about tearing the limbs off from this...I'm not entirely sure how its works with Lilith worshipping drag queens. But I come off as really bad because of the groups that Bahari infiltrate to convert people.
Camarilla Ventrue: You come off like a stereotype, but the actual reason you target people is completely different, and still fucking insane. Like that tiny old lesbian woman you killed
Camarilla Gangrel: She was an actual Soviet plotting a revolution, my people fled them. Also, I killed plenty of white guys too. I killed a six hundred year old British guy so I could keep a haunted hotel
one of the posters in my snippets thread effectively summarized the friendship between the Gangrel (Chivalry) and Tzimisce (Honorable Accord) with an image
Also
I work in a store which does get of VTM books at times
The sabbat book is terrible
Absolutely terrible.
Writers: Seeing the creation rites, your players should immediately want to stop it.
Me: You do not understand player characters. At best, they run away due to not thinking they can win the fight, or they might try to wrangle up some of the shovelheads to use as meat shields in the future.
Writers: This book is not meant for players to roleplay sabbat
Me: You definitely do not understand players
edit
one of the few good things I have found in any of the books is a character sheet for a 80 year old geriatric caitiff Vietnam war vet who was touring the USA to visit all 50 states while adding to his coin collection before his wife died, waited to join her before being embraced as a prank, and has been thinking about finishing that trip/adding to his collection after years of existential dread and getting a fear of teenage hoodlums
Me: This man has crafting, firearms, medicine, science, and a lot of other skills to go with the ability to turn outright invisible which makes him the Party's grandpa
Coworker: The grandpa who can sew up their bullet wounds after the drive by shooting
Me: He can potentially be the driver or the shooter for that. Also repair and maintenance their guns while complaining about how they never give them a proper wipe down
Coworker: This is a beautiful old man
Me; I know, also larceny
Coworker: It makes perfect sense for a Vietnam vet to have that skill
Me: Grandpa picking locks for his grandkids and asking why nobody knows how to do this anymore.
Last edited:
S.I.N
The sixth demon
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Ha not want to roleplay sabbat you don't comprehend the sick shit we are into game maker's.I am writing a story right now which is specifically about a conspiracy theorist Gangrel setting fire to things and comes off as completely deranged from an outside perspective.
Camarilla Gangrel: I have deciphered these letters written in ancient Hebrew about a horrific abomination beyond all mortal and immortal ken waiting in the depths of the sea. It is obviously Lilith insanity, I feel like it is a hate crime, but I now need to torture a rabbi to find out the names of the collaborators. Maybe this would be less horrible if I had a Jewish vampire jump onboard?
Sabbat Tzimisce: It is completely and totally morally righteous to burn a heretic to just before the point of final death and diablerize their screaming and agony ridden form.
Camarilla Gangrel: Are they really covered by the traditions if they consider themselves Setites rather than Cainites, that they aren't kindred is in the name
Sabbat Tzimisce: Eat their souls and leave the ashes to make their congregation despair before torturing them.
Camarilla Gangrel: I feel really bad about tearing the limbs off from this...I'm not entirely sure how its works with Lilith worshipping drag queens. But I come off as really bad because of the groups that Bahari infiltrate to convert people.
Camarilla Ventrue: You come off like a stereotype, but the actual reason you target people is completely different, and still fucking insane. Like that tiny old lesbian woman you killed
Camarilla Gangrel: She was an actual Soviet plotting a revolution, my people fled them. Also, I killed plenty of white guys too. I killed a six hundred year old British guy so I could keep a haunted hotel
one of the posters in my snippets thread effectively summarized the friendship between the Gangrel (Chivalry) and Tzimisce (Honorable Accord) with an image
Also
I work in a store which does get of VTM books at times
The sabbat book is terrible
Absolutely terrible.
Writers: Seeing the creation rites, your players should immediately want to stop it.
Me: You do not understand player characters. At best, they run away due to not thinking they can win the fight, or they might try to wrangle up some of the shovelheads to use as meat shields in the future.
Writers: This book is not meant for players to roleplay sabbat
Me: You definitely do not understand players
edit
one of the few good things I have found in any of the books is a character sheet for a 80 year old geriatric caitiff Vietnam war vet who was touring the USA to visit all 50 states while adding to his coin collection before his wife died, waited to join her before being embraced as a prank, and has been thinking about finishing that trip/adding to his collection after years of existential dread and getting a fear of teenage hoodlums
Me: This man has crafting, firearms, medicine, science, and a lot of other skills to go with the ability to turn outright invisible which makes him the Party's grandpa
Coworker: The grandpa who can sew up their bullet wounds after the drive by shooting
Me: He can potentially be the driver or the shooter for that. Also repair and maintenance their guns while complaining about how they never give them a proper wipe down
Coworker: This is a beautiful old man
Me; I know, also larceny
Coworker: It makes perfect sense for a Vietnam vet to have that skill
Me: Grandpa picking locks for his grandkids and asking why nobody knows how to do this anymore.
shadowdice
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I know
They writers also seem to...not understand the concept of the sabbat
like saying that they are totally cuckoo for cocopuffs in that there is no logical through line or sense to what they do (which no, even legitimately insane people have a line of progression which makes sense to them), and that they lack things like "Individuality"
Which, doesn't really make sense with the amount of paths of enlightenment they have.
The Path of the Beast and Honorable Accord are also somehow dying out isn the modern nights...which don't make much sense, especially with the variations of the first (of which there are like 3 before getting into Roads)
Repentant_Dragos
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Is M20 dying out as well?
shadowdice
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I expect that we will have M5 after werewolf 5 comes out
so
officially yea?
Repentant_Dragos
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Joy.
By the way, what is your opinion on playing MtAs with the MtAw Magic System?
Rakdos92
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I recall a story where a group of players essentially shot a werewolf with a hook-gun and then drove a mad dive for the city while dragging said werewolf with them and the rest of the pack hounding them. Sabbat plays allow for stuff that would violate the masquerade so hard, the local prince'd call down the Inquisition on you.
shadowdice
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My players joined the Sabbat mostly by accident and then literally nuked the Sabbat's leadership because they never learned that Mexico City was where a lot of the sect's leadership was
Players: well we got rid of Satan
Me: And the Sabbat's head
Players: wait what?
They actively refused to interact with other members of the Sabbat until having concessions pried out of them (the players) like teeth because they wanted things from others in Brazil and had to negotiate with others to even know where to find other local vampires
So the reason they didn't know about their own sect was due to them actively avoiding dealing with it
still not entirely sure how most of the sect will react
killgore444
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Cheer!
Congratulate them on how awesome they are!
Diableroise them to steal their power!
shadowdice
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Not even the cool doomerism where the Antediluvians woke up and made a world of warring vampire states.
this reminds me of something from early in my game.
Sheriff Balthazar, the most generic villain in VTM, just cheap racist confederate villain.
I reworked him and the players loved it.
Because when a vampire cowboy drives up in a pickup truck where other vampires are either in the back seat or sitting in the flat bed with a bunch of ghoul dogs, takes a whip to the sabbat, and immediately just listens to them about all of the fucked up horrible shit they saw *Tzimisce elder getting unstaked in a failed diablerie, animated golems, FBI, zombies, Sabbat, etc* and just goes "Okay, which part do you want to eat. We can divide up who kills who" and negotiates with the players about getting favors in return for the magic books they want, the players are perfectly happy to work with the horrible guy.
Cowboy vampire with a whip is too meme worthy for them to outright hate.
Because Charisma 4 Leadership 3 Subterfuge 3 isn't the kind of social stats that point towards being a total blunder who is obvious about their bad qualities.
His stat block before v5 is just kind of odd (and v5 just kind of nerfs everything) Brujah with Dominate 5 and Fortitude 3
Nature: Fanatic (what he is fanatic for is never really shown anywhere)
Demeanor: Bravo
Strength 4, Dexterity 3, Stamina 3
Charisma 4, Manipulation 3, Appearance 2
Perception 3, Intelligence 3, Wits 4
Alertness 2, Brawl 4, Dodge 3, Intimidation 4, Leadership 3, Streetwise 3, Subterfuge 3
Drive 2, Etiquette 1, Firearms 3, Melee 3, Performance (Acting) 2, Stealth 2, Survival 1
Bureaucracy 2, Law 2, Linguistics 1, Occult 3, Politics 1
Auspex 1, Celerity 2, Dominate 5, Fortitude 3, Potence3, Presence 2
Herd 1 Resources 2, Retainers 5, Status 3
Humanity 3
Conscience 2, Self-Control 2, Courage 3
Willpower 6
Demeanor: Bravo
Strength 4, Dexterity 3, Stamina 3
Charisma 4, Manipulation 3, Appearance 2
Perception 3, Intelligence 3, Wits 4
Alertness 2, Brawl 4, Dodge 3, Intimidation 4, Leadership 3, Streetwise 3, Subterfuge 3
Drive 2, Etiquette 1, Firearms 3, Melee 3, Performance (Acting) 2, Stealth 2, Survival 1
Bureaucracy 2, Law 2, Linguistics 1, Occult 3, Politics 1
Auspex 1, Celerity 2, Dominate 5, Fortitude 3, Potence3, Presence 2
Herd 1 Resources 2, Retainers 5, Status 3
Humanity 3
Conscience 2, Self-Control 2, Courage 3
Willpower 6
Kind of like how Christopher in LA by Night's stat block actually makes him a great artist despite the lore saying otherwise.
Plus, occult 3 int 3 is about what I expect for somebody who is actually looking into the supernatural and how it works and is you know, good at that, which isn't what they were trying to imply with Balthazar.
Just, this sheet has always raised many questions for me.
killgore444
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The writers for RPGs (and Whitewolf in particular) always kind of confused me.
It always seems like they ignore their own rules when making NPCs and settings don't function at all with the play styles suggested in games.
This becomes even more apparent with White Wolf once they started their live-action books. In those, whatever stats were written were irrelevent, as how charismatic and diplomatic you were was entirely dependent on your own actual skills, rather than any game stats. Cowboy vampire above wasn't undiplomatic, his player played him like a shithead and it stuck with whoever wrote the supplement.
shadowdice
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seriously though
that statblock
He doesn't have investigation because his skills and disciplines make it so he should be perfectly able to talk and intimidate people into just handing things over *and dominate* so that he can drive through a wall and start shooting up the place like it is a Lethal Weapon movie. And the actual knowledge he has puts Occult at Masters Degree level. Southern Man with a cowboy hat standing in front of a blackboard lecturing college students about the difference between a rougarou and werewolf.
His brawl is higher than his firearms or melee so that you can justify the movie trope of throwing away your weapon for a fist fight.
If you go with Strength+Intimidate, he has 11 dice.
killgore444
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Looking at his stats, I would have said he got his position from his charisma, presence, leadership and either his performance(acting), subterfuge or his etiquette skills. Hell, his cha, presence and acting skills alone should make it so no one realizes how much of a cunt he is until to late (unless they have powers/skills to see through it).
I remember a LONG time ago watching a comedian who was of Japanese descent, but grew up in Texas and had the whole Texas twang to an absurd degree. So yeah, this would actually be kind of funny.
Considering that he probably comes from a time when guns weren't as dependable as they are now, that's actually one of the more realistic facets of his build.
As a ST, I never added potence to intimidation checks unless the target was fully aware you had it. Potence is invisible strength. As such, it's invisible to to the target of intimidation. Charisma however, gets to add presence to it no matter what. And he's got the stats to be cock sure of himself to get what D&D would call a circumstance bonus to his 10 dice of cha+intimidation.
But like I said, game writers always confused me. Not as badly as the people who choose the artwork for games though.
shadowdice
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As he is the Sheriff, I imagine him walking into a haven and just casually *apologizing* about destroying the knob as he locks the door behind him for the interrogation.Looking at his stats, I would have said he got his position from his charisma, presence, leadership and either his performance(acting), subterfuge or his etiquette skills. Hell, his cha, presence and acting skills alone should make it so no one realizes how much of a cunt he is until to late (unless they have powers/skills to see through it).
I remember a LONG time ago watching a comedian who was of Japanese descent, but grew up in Texas and had the whole Texas twang to an absurd degree. So yeah, this would actually be kind of funny.
Considering that he probably comes from a time when guns weren't as dependable as they are now, that's actually one of the more realistic facets of his build.
As a ST, I never added potence to intimidation checks unless the target was fully aware you had it. Potence is invisible strength. As such, it's invisible to to the target of intimidation. Charisma however, gets to add presence to it no matter what. And he's got the stats to be cock sure of himself to get what D&D would call a circumstance bonus to his 10 dice of cha+intimidation.
But like I said, game writers always confused me. Not as badly as the people who choose the artwork for games though.
But yeah, the stat block make me think that people really shouldn't realize how much of a dick he is until he has his hands around their throat.
His embrace was after the civil war so not as dependable as today, but in the time period where people were realizing "Oh fuck these things kill a massive amount of people, war isn't how it used to be" but before "Oh god mountains of dead people" WW1 era.
Anyways, his other knowledges make it so he is competent at his job. Not great at the paperwork but above average (5 dice in bureaucracy and law and 4 for politics, more if you use a social skill with politics instead of int). The tracking, shaking people down, streetwise, and so on make up for that in addition to combat skills, so all around, he has a good reason to be placed in his role.
Retainers 5 is one of those things which was never really expanded on, if they are ghouls, police-men under the influence of discipline, of vampire Hounds was never really explained but there are a few scenes in the early books where it its assumed that he has 'deputies" who are all faceless goons. I went with it being a coterie of hounds when I used him in a game.
VTM's artwork is always...circumspect.
Most of the early edition stuff was...minimalist and v20 and v5 have glaring issues in that they clearly have no art direction so you can have a supplement with wildly different art styles
the less said about the cosplay in v5 the better
Ragura
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Imagine Mad Max: Fury Road but the warboys are vampires. Or, if we go biblical, Waterworld.
And the war is not just between the Antediluvians - there are also the Fera, the few remaining Mages (most fled into their horizon realms), a very few crying Changelings and what is left of the human governments. Without active maintenance by the Technocracy and the Weaver, the rules of reality are getting spongy and slowly moving towards Ork "physics". You have various cults that are starting to develop True Faith (easier now thanks to less Weaver interference) and things generally have collapsed into warring city-states. While some countries try to maintain their borders and central government, the world economy is in shambles and most need a few decades still to recover from their former interdependence. The Masquerade is in shambles and fighting them has torn the Veil, and put a big dent into the Gauntlet in places.
What would you put into that setting?
killgore444
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Hey, Southern Hospitality and politeness MATTERS. I'm sure he tips his hat to ladies as well. Even if (especially if) he's about to unspeakably torture them.
Ah, that wonderful time of transition when precision metal work was just hitting the stage of being able to dependably make cartridges that fit. Before that, it was open up the cylinder, and drop bullets into the 6 chambers, followed by paper bags filled with powder and then wadding and blasting caps before closing the cylinder. After it was just put 6 cartridges into the 6 chambers.
And it's not like vampires have traditionally been all that concerned with actually getting the guilty party instead of an easily presented scape goat, so his lack of investigation isn't really a hindrance to his position.
I'd say suspect instead.
I pretty much stopped buying most of their stuff after 2nd ed. Only getting the occasional world building book. I did get all of their 1st ed books except WtA (which I got 2nd ed) and KotE (which I didn't bother with).
The artwork in HtR was so off base from the game rules and flavor/descriptive text as to be considered a hindrance to running the game. Although they at least managed to avoid the super hot women who run around in high heals slaying monsters by night and being super models by day that so many games have.
Unless they're used to having STs like me and they just assume everyone in a position of authority in vampire society is an extreme dick no matter what.
Whenever I started a new group in VtM, I always go out of my way to make sure that they understand that there is nothing in the job description of 'Vampire Elder' that implies 'nice guy', but there is plenty to imply 'extreme dick.'
!
shadowdice
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My campaign already has most of the antediluvians having woken up and gone into a civil warImagine Mad Max: Fury Road but the warboys are vampires. Or, if we go biblical, Waterworld.
And the war is not just between the Antediluvians - there are also the Fera, the few remaining Mages (most fled into their horizon realms), a very few crying Changelings and what is left of the human governments. Without active maintenance by the Technocracy and the Weaver, the rules of reality are getting spongy and slowly moving towards Ork "physics". You have various cults that are starting to develop True Faith (easier now thanks to less Weaver interference) and things generally have collapsed into warring city-states. While some countries try to maintain their borders and central government, the world economy is in shambles and most need a few decades still to recover from their former interdependence. The Masquerade is in shambles and fighting them has torn the Veil, and put a big dent into the Gauntlet in places.
What would you put into that setting?
the sides
Stepmommy/Biomommy Lilith
Malakai (kidnapped by biological mother Lilith)
The Crone
Ilyes (Stakes by Mekhet)
Lucian
Erinyes
Ikopabe
They are currently flooding areas of the world so that they can send Deep One shock troops and other demonic monsters descended from Lilith. The werewolves are incredibly confused by this.)
Adoptive Mommy Luluwa (Caine's sister)
Lasombra (Fabulous narcissist man who makes tentacles come out of his back because he refuses to dirty his feet by touching the ground. Grinds up gold and radioactive materials for face and hair coloring. "It doesn't matter if the slaves lose years off their life, I look amazing)
Set (currently reincarnated as a baby dhampir able to punch people's heads off and make them offer up their throats)
Malkav (possessing random people while frenzying over the kidnapped sister)
Tzimisce (trolling people by looking like a blonde omen child, survived being nuked by Absimiliard)
Mekhet (Bloodmage diablerized by Irad but took over his body, was a Mage but his Avatar manifested physically and started the Technocracy to try and force them to fuse back together)
Ventru (stuck in a child's body due to having been staked by Troile the Lion and never fully healing, and not wanting to wait to get a new one, not knowing that it would put her in this situation)
The players nuking Mexico city killed 8 million people, causing an Avatar Storm which stranded a large portion of the Technocracy and other Mages along with fucking over the Wraiths.
The werewolves in the USA were already having problems from a Tzimisce 4th gen able to turn into a dragon deciding to purge them and take their children into re-education camps "Group Homes" and now have bigger problems. Like Odin The All High Having devoured the 8 million souls of Mexico City and Satan to become a God. The Get of Fenris are making scared furry noises.
Everyone knows that vampires are real now, the sun has been permanently blotted out by a creation of Ravnos while the vampire also made an aurora borealis capable of providing enough light for plants to keep using photosynthesis before he went off to China to get rid of the Kuei-Jin by using Animalism 10 on the population (that is actually possible with high enough Animalism), giving them a portion of his fortitude, and having the Kuei-Jin's servants rip them limb from limb.
The Fairies are terrified and have no idea what is going on, Baba Yaga has been using her mages to infiltrate the other Traditions along with take control of the Russian Orthodox Church, and is isn the process of murdering all the Garou Nation she deems necessary to find the descendants of the Tsars.
It took a while for my players to look at just which Antediluviians they were working with and realizing that they weren't exactly the good guys
Toreador Player: Well, we can find Arikel, she is the nice one
Me: One of her names is Ishtar
Toreador Player: And?
Me: *Laughing in Sumerian Mythology*
shadowdice
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My plotting for my vtm story ended up with me creating a bizarre Sabbat Pack
One run by a Bulgarian nobleman from the Russo-Ottomon war in the 1800s and really wishes the war hadn't ended.
Ventrue Anti-Tribu who doesn't act like one and went way into Path of Death and the Soul, not through necromancy but extensively talking to people and probing their thoughts, feelings, and cutting open their brains to look at it while doing so. Everything he sees looks like dead things at this point due to developing death sight and his studies into the dead have resulted in developing the kiss of death (drained people become zombies) but he "Doesn't kill people without a reason." In that his killing is to study their deaths and he prefers to take a massive amount of time talking to the person and learning everything about them before he turns them into an undead experiment.
Does practice medicine for the purpose of seeing where the brink of death is and files away notes on the people whose lives get saved so he can extensively study and kill them later (Medicine 6)
Still, though, a guy from the 1800s who really really really hated the Ottomans and still does towards everything he considers ottomans
which perturbs most of the pack since they are all way younger than him
His tendencies also resulted in him actively looking for Eastern European and specifically Bulgarian descendants for the pack
resulting in a very confused Brujah neonate and Toreador ancilla who tells her to just roll with it
Brujah antitribu is a city girl neonate of 11 years who refuses to learn potence and has instead figured out animalism, and is just a general skill monkey with an odd amount of skill in technology and relies on raw charisma for presence powers
Toreador antitribu is a muscle house with high charisma and presence 3 who never figured out celerity and has been teaching the brujah presence and went loopy after perfectly diableriizing a malk and getting a very happy Malkavian in his head forever.
A Lasombra who was turned in his sixties after having been an olympic fencer turned vigilante of the night (High stealth, athletics, and melee) he continues his journey as ultimate defender and predator of the night by devouring vampires he considers a discredit to them and finding worthy opponents to fight and diablerize.
Sabbat batman basically, but his sire's attempts to break him down resulted in him being permentantly diseased and having a fear of intimacy
Serpent of light early computer geek who is clumsy and can barely lift anything but is bizarrely good at tanking hits. Actually hates being a vampire but is trying really hard to pretend otherwise for fear his pack will turn his daughter who he has been trying to keep out of sabbat line of sight since she was born *he was turned while hiss wife had been expecting*
Lasombra's recent childe who they got from a small town because she managed to track them when they took people to experiment on. The Lasombra is teaching her how she too can track down the unworthy and inflict their punishment, but she is very happily on the path of the beast.
The Tzimisce tween vampire is very upset about how no one else is actually focused on preparing for Gehenna and the Sabbat ideals
they get scolded into Ultra-Conservative sabbat actions while all being so focused on their own shit that they barely realize that they interfere with each other's stuff. and those that do are too scared to mention it.
It is basically two grumpy grandpas, their rebellious grandson, the dad who thinks he needs to go along with everything he is told, and three granddaughters two of which are at each other's throats while the "oldest" looks the youngest and is the one who keeps them all together and not self destructing
One run by a Bulgarian nobleman from the Russo-Ottomon war in the 1800s and really wishes the war hadn't ended.
Ventrue Anti-Tribu who doesn't act like one and went way into Path of Death and the Soul, not through necromancy but extensively talking to people and probing their thoughts, feelings, and cutting open their brains to look at it while doing so. Everything he sees looks like dead things at this point due to developing death sight and his studies into the dead have resulted in developing the kiss of death (drained people become zombies) but he "Doesn't kill people without a reason." In that his killing is to study their deaths and he prefers to take a massive amount of time talking to the person and learning everything about them before he turns them into an undead experiment.
Does practice medicine for the purpose of seeing where the brink of death is and files away notes on the people whose lives get saved so he can extensively study and kill them later (Medicine 6)
Still, though, a guy from the 1800s who really really really hated the Ottomans and still does towards everything he considers ottomans
which perturbs most of the pack since they are all way younger than him
His tendencies also resulted in him actively looking for Eastern European and specifically Bulgarian descendants for the pack
resulting in a very confused Brujah neonate and Toreador ancilla who tells her to just roll with it
Brujah antitribu is a city girl neonate of 11 years who refuses to learn potence and has instead figured out animalism, and is just a general skill monkey with an odd amount of skill in technology and relies on raw charisma for presence powers
Toreador antitribu is a muscle house with high charisma and presence 3 who never figured out celerity and has been teaching the brujah presence and went loopy after perfectly diableriizing a malk and getting a very happy Malkavian in his head forever.
A Lasombra who was turned in his sixties after having been an olympic fencer turned vigilante of the night (High stealth, athletics, and melee) he continues his journey as ultimate defender and predator of the night by devouring vampires he considers a discredit to them and finding worthy opponents to fight and diablerize.
Sabbat batman basically, but his sire's attempts to break him down resulted in him being permentantly diseased and having a fear of intimacy
Serpent of light early computer geek who is clumsy and can barely lift anything but is bizarrely good at tanking hits. Actually hates being a vampire but is trying really hard to pretend otherwise for fear his pack will turn his daughter who he has been trying to keep out of sabbat line of sight since she was born *he was turned while hiss wife had been expecting*
Lasombra's recent childe who they got from a small town because she managed to track them when they took people to experiment on. The Lasombra is teaching her how she too can track down the unworthy and inflict their punishment, but she is very happily on the path of the beast.
The Tzimisce tween vampire is very upset about how no one else is actually focused on preparing for Gehenna and the Sabbat ideals
they get scolded into Ultra-Conservative sabbat actions while all being so focused on their own shit that they barely realize that they interfere with each other's stuff. and those that do are too scared to mention it.
It is basically two grumpy grandpas, their rebellious grandson, the dad who thinks he needs to go along with everything he is told, and three granddaughters two of which are at each other's throats while the "oldest" looks the youngest and is the one who keeps them all together and not self destructing
Ragura
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Maragas
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To be honest, half the time I toss character sheets to trash because of how useless they are. Especially if I am running a high action and/or fast-ish progression chronicles. At least newer books just say "Suggested" half the time.
For example, Hit Marks. Narratively they are Terminators on steroids. Making even Master Mages shiver at the premise at facing them. They are the guys who make jokes out of Elder Vampires, Werewolfs and other RD too.
See latest Hitmark. But you know what. Stat wise they are just...okayish. Powerful Ancilla at best. And that's because of their shitty dexterity.
At least they have 4 Countermagic dice.
4 Dexterity? 8 Hitting Dice with Abilities? Not to mention no way to get extra actions? They don't even have something to counteract Celerity or Time Magic extra actions or really any other speedy supernatural, like Werewolfs with multiple attacks thanks to Rage.
Make that Dexterity 6 as well and give them at least the ability to take 2 more actions and you have at least an average Elder Vampire level threat. Or a match for 2 Werewolfs.
The funniest thing is, I am pretty sure writers know it too. Take for "Iron Bob" model Hit Marks.
Too bad it can't hit any of the mentioned targets! Dexterity 3? Ability 3? 6 Dice for hitting things? If left alone I give 50/50 chance of a Vampire Ancilla beating this thing by themselves! Nevermind a Werewolf!
Their only worth is as a weapons platform but even then they are shittier than many better options Technocrats have! Be it personal anti-matter weapons, plasma canons, or orbital weaponry. The only viable use of this thing is in armies where you have others that can waste the enemy's extra actions, slow down and pin the targets. Which in most chronicles never happens.
So really, half the time writers have no idea about the systems their characters use and the other half they are purposely trolling.
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Ragura
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Iron Bobs have their uses - they are the best mobile cover money can buy. They can pull entire armored trains. They can throw train wagons with Feats of Strength. If they actually manage to grab someone, they can bend them into a prezel. They can hold doors against all comers by welding themselves into the frame. They make great paperweights!
Seriously, they can be plenty deadly when combined with a time manipulator that evens the Dexterity playing field. Or attack vampire havens by day and go through zombies and ghouls like paper (considering that many vampire elders canonically have Humanity 3 and thus a dice pool of 3 by day). Or just combine them with CS gas (and silver-inlaid claws) against werewolves.
Repentant_Dragos
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Do any of you want to help me make a fic about Kirschtaria Wodime being reincarnated into the New World of Darkness 2e/Chronicles of Darkness as a Mage?
shadowdice
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I have been working on making a background for a Detroit VTM game (partly to work on at least attempting 5e, part because I have met a fair few people who want to try vampire)
Part of my general idea was that Detroit is well, aside from being Detroit, has become a mess for vampires since the Sabbat rolled out to go on Crusade in the cradle of civilization, so the surviving Camarilla and Anarchs who had been fighting them, outside of having been greatly reduced in the 2000s from lots dying, had a lot of them just pick up sticks and leave since there was no one to fight, and well, it is Detroit.
The old guard of both factions are mainly just the ones who survived, where almost all of them are just ancillae
"Old Guard"
Camarilla
The Bag Man: A Nosferatu who looks like he is made out of sack cloth, hates the anarchs and lives in the graveyards due to still being an undertaker despite being nearly 200, is somewhat invested in continuing to fight the Anarchs, but mainly due to the fact that he just plain likes fighting.
Vagabond: The only actual elder as a 600 year old bag lady from Finland who came to America specifically because she wanted to avoid the cold and settled down in Detroit back when it was French. She has been a bag lady the entire time and only alters her routine when she physically has to, going to the same coin laundry every week since before it was even a coin laundry. all while having an ocelot on her back and using a possum as a fur wrap around her neck, appearing out of walls of rats when she is pissed off about someone changing things that she liked and questioning people as to who caused it. Has no intention of ruling the city outside of complaining when something angers her, and would prefer to sit in her rocking chair in an old tenement building helping ravens form grudges against people.
Barber Man: A civil war era barber/doctor who is annoyed by teenagers coming into his store soaked in blood while asking for him to take out the bullets when he just wants to cut hair. Is a Tremere.
Anarchs
.
A Ravnos bank clerk who has dominated so many of the about three dozen banks left in Detroit that he is terrified of being called part of the establishment and desperately tries to start a war with the Camarilla to prevent that.
A Brujah inventor who has been dragged in by other members of his clan because they pay him for things and use it when committing crimes, so everyone assumed he was some kind of morality criminal consultant.
Caitiff Warhawk who has been high out of his mind since the 60s and believes he can read the stars.
Rat King: A Nosferatu composer who has like ten rats blood bonded to him and believes he is king of all rats
Part of why things are a powder keg is because none of them actually want to become prince, which has resulted in a bunch of outsiders coming in along with outright neonates attempting to become Prince/Baron. All of the above are either completely uncaring about who is prince, or are just trying to set up a scenario for an actually organized war so it would partly be the players who tip the balance in who gets the seat
the candidates being
A Foreign Toreador Ancilla who is just outright a managing director that considers profit margins and a functional workplace to be the height of beauty.
One of the original Tremere who has been asleep for a few hundred years, woke up, and then got drone striked when the Vienna chantry burned down, has no idea what is going on and is poking at the Great Lakes and the probable monsters down there since he is trying to find a way to revive his dead wife and would be like an impossibly young looking grandpa that is coming to his grandkids asking if he needs to turn the internet on and off.
Putanesca necromancer who really wants to show that her bloodline can be more than just generic thugs, but is constantly slamming her face into her desk as her subordinates just bulldoze into things.
A malkavian neonate with a dependent personality and is constantly cuddling a caitiff who is terrified because she is really low gen and he is terrified about what he believes is a methuselah plot (it really isn't, a methuselah woke up, made a childer, and kept walking around in a fugue state but might come back later)
Everyone is assuming that there is Keikaku doori nonsense going on but the truth is that the competent people have bumbling subordinates or are really absorbed in their own thing.
Part of my general idea was that Detroit is well, aside from being Detroit, has become a mess for vampires since the Sabbat rolled out to go on Crusade in the cradle of civilization, so the surviving Camarilla and Anarchs who had been fighting them, outside of having been greatly reduced in the 2000s from lots dying, had a lot of them just pick up sticks and leave since there was no one to fight, and well, it is Detroit.
The old guard of both factions are mainly just the ones who survived, where almost all of them are just ancillae
"Old Guard"
Camarilla
The Bag Man: A Nosferatu who looks like he is made out of sack cloth, hates the anarchs and lives in the graveyards due to still being an undertaker despite being nearly 200, is somewhat invested in continuing to fight the Anarchs, but mainly due to the fact that he just plain likes fighting.
Vagabond: The only actual elder as a 600 year old bag lady from Finland who came to America specifically because she wanted to avoid the cold and settled down in Detroit back when it was French. She has been a bag lady the entire time and only alters her routine when she physically has to, going to the same coin laundry every week since before it was even a coin laundry. all while having an ocelot on her back and using a possum as a fur wrap around her neck, appearing out of walls of rats when she is pissed off about someone changing things that she liked and questioning people as to who caused it. Has no intention of ruling the city outside of complaining when something angers her, and would prefer to sit in her rocking chair in an old tenement building helping ravens form grudges against people.
Barber Man: A civil war era barber/doctor who is annoyed by teenagers coming into his store soaked in blood while asking for him to take out the bullets when he just wants to cut hair. Is a Tremere.
Anarchs
.
A Ravnos bank clerk who has dominated so many of the about three dozen banks left in Detroit that he is terrified of being called part of the establishment and desperately tries to start a war with the Camarilla to prevent that.
A Brujah inventor who has been dragged in by other members of his clan because they pay him for things and use it when committing crimes, so everyone assumed he was some kind of morality criminal consultant.
Caitiff Warhawk who has been high out of his mind since the 60s and believes he can read the stars.
Rat King: A Nosferatu composer who has like ten rats blood bonded to him and believes he is king of all rats
Part of why things are a powder keg is because none of them actually want to become prince, which has resulted in a bunch of outsiders coming in along with outright neonates attempting to become Prince/Baron. All of the above are either completely uncaring about who is prince, or are just trying to set up a scenario for an actually organized war so it would partly be the players who tip the balance in who gets the seat
the candidates being
A Foreign Toreador Ancilla who is just outright a managing director that considers profit margins and a functional workplace to be the height of beauty.
One of the original Tremere who has been asleep for a few hundred years, woke up, and then got drone striked when the Vienna chantry burned down, has no idea what is going on and is poking at the Great Lakes and the probable monsters down there since he is trying to find a way to revive his dead wife and would be like an impossibly young looking grandpa that is coming to his grandkids asking if he needs to turn the internet on and off.
Putanesca necromancer who really wants to show that her bloodline can be more than just generic thugs, but is constantly slamming her face into her desk as her subordinates just bulldoze into things.
A malkavian neonate with a dependent personality and is constantly cuddling a caitiff who is terrified because she is really low gen and he is terrified about what he believes is a methuselah plot (it really isn't, a methuselah woke up, made a childer, and kept walking around in a fugue state but might come back later)
Everyone is assuming that there is Keikaku doori nonsense going on but the truth is that the competent people have bumbling subordinates or are really absorbed in their own thing.
Repentant_Dragos
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Question: Has the Craftmasons' history been elaborated on in M20? It seems to me like that in the M20 document, all mentions of them are as small as possible and only one mention is made of them being 'for the common people'...
Imabot
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Of course. I posted my impressions about first episode some time a go.
And might as well post others
Markus... you ruined everything even in AU. Much better delivery of horror than last episode. Pyotor is one scary mother fucker. Animation really nicely deliver his malicious nature. BTW Markus said that TF2 is coming out next year so this story must take place in year 2006.
I always liked audio logs from 40kTTS and they improved upon them here. Nice exposition dump and some good fleshing out of characters. Big D have a good reasons to withhold information about supernatural and at least he is honest that he's hiding things. He could however warm his kids to not engage in sadistic entertainment of forcing vampires to diablerise each other. Tho maybe he assumed that his kids won't be that stupid to use a preschooler logic of "to see what would happen" and they will be more reasonable and careful when studying a group of fully sapient supernatural blood sucking monsters.
And I now understand why he's using Big D as his name. He's hiding his true name from the wizards and other magical creatures.
Imabot
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Garou are mone of the most dangerous CQC supernatural combatants you might have misfortune to meet. They are fast strong, heal really fast, have sharp animalistic senses and are impervious to most weapons that aren't silver or magic, just seeing them can cause delirium AND worst of all they like fighting in packs. There's always a good chance that you won't be dealing with only one werewolf at one time.
As Big D said. They are killing machines, supernatural soldiers perfect for direct combat.
Vampires are more about infiltration and ambush.
But Big D did warm Kitten how Magi who can bend reality to their will aren't pushover either. You should not kill them because of Death Hex and best chance to take one of them out is to make sure Mage is completely unaware of attack coming. But that's easier said than done. Mage with 2 or 3 dots in any sphere can use it to set up various measures to detect and prevent incoming ambush.
As Big D said. They are killing machines, supernatural soldiers perfect for direct combat.
Vampires are more about infiltration and ambush.
But Big D did warm Kitten how Magi who can bend reality to their will aren't pushover either. You should not kill them because of Death Hex and best chance to take one of them out is to make sure Mage is completely unaware of attack coming. But that's easier said than done. Mage with 2 or 3 dots in any sphere can use it to set up various measures to detect and prevent incoming ambush.