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I will become God-Harem King of the World! [Highschool DxD/Exalted] (CLOSED)

Fellgar said:
More like 1000 something. I don't remember the exact number. Frankly I read the Boosted gear transfer descriptions and I can't help but think that Alexander is confusing Boosted gear with Twice Critical. Its just way weaker then i am expecting. Boosted gear is supposed to work off of cubing the base power while from Alex's work I can't help but think he thinks its supposed to be multiplication. They are both designed around increasing sure but one is able to do way more then the other.

This is Boosted Gear. The loginus? designed to abuse the cubed rule of power multiplication. Not being able to pour all that power into something usable by others just doesn't strike me as a related to it.
Wait. I don't get what you're saying. I said already that some characteristics can be multiplied multiple times, like this {[(X*2)*2]+2}*2.
Boosted Gear is like Twice Critical, only it can keep doubling without limits and transfer the doubling to other people to double them instead.
 
You might consider starting by cutting all those mote costs in half. Transfer is supposed to be way more powerful than this. Like, the equivalent I was thinking of was "Your target gains a temporary pool of X motes and the ability to use a number of Solar charms that you know equal to your essence" or something like that. Not so much "You can blow your entire pool on enhancing a weapon but you'll only give it the equivalent of magical material bonuses." That's just kind of weaksauce.
 
PErhaps post some vids of people using transfer to demonstrate?
 
So I'm reading volume 6 right now, and; does the Japanese school year start at the actual beginning of the year?
 
That would make more sense. See I kept thinking back to Persona 4, where Yu stays in Inaba for a year, but there was a Christmas event, and then a bit more of the game after that. But if the school year followed the actual year, then wouldn't the school year have ended at Christmas, and then he left after that?

But if the school year starts in Spring, then everything's good.
 
Carrnage said:
PErhaps post some vids of people using transfer to demonstrate?
Youtube is lousy with vids, but his first prominent usage of [Boosted Gear Gift] was in the Gremory / Phenex rating game when he boosted Kiba's Sword Birth.

This is Sword Birth without the boost

uyPKC2W.jpg


And this is Sword Birth with it.

sm1SA5u.jpg
 
Alexander said:
-The "Transfer" will take motes from the pool of "Welsh Boost Overdrive" and give them to a living being or an object. Motes from Issei's normal pools don't work.
-When the motes are given to a living being, Issei can choose between two options:
--Creating a temporary motepool with the donated motes. Gifted motes are still considered Solar Celestial, even if they are 'Attuned' to the target, and if not spent waste away slowly (one every 15 minutes).
--living beings can receive a number of motes as a motepool up to Issei's (Essence)*10
--For 10 motes per dot Issei can add up to the his [Essence + Stamina] temporary dots to the target's Physical Attributes in total and up to Issei's [Essence + Stamina]/3 rounded up to any single one. These temporary dots last until the third DV refresh at which point they are lost, a fatigue penalty equal to (the amount of temporary dots added) -1 is gained (it's the target that gained the penalty, not Issei).
-When the motes are given to an object (Sacred Gears counts as such), the motes can be used to increase its characteristics. Those increases last until the third DV refresh. A characteristic may be increased multiple times. More than one characteristic can be increased at once. It follows this scheme:
--10 motes can be spent to decrease Speed of a weapon of -1 to a minimum of 1.
--10 motes can be spent to increase Rate of a weapon of +1 to a maximum of 4.
--10 motes can be spent to double the value of Accuracy, Damage, Defense or Range.
--10 motes can be spent to double the value of Soak or Hardness of an armor or object.
--If a weapon, armor or another type of object has a special power, or determined effect, 10 motes can be spent to double their effects (at discretion of the GM)
--objects can receive a number of motes up to their (Rating)*10. Normal objects, unless specifically stated, have a Rating of 1. Surpassing this limits will cause them to be damaged or broken.
--Once reached the cap the user must wait until the Boosts fade before he can transfer them again to the same target.
-The user can't choose himself or Boosted Gear as target.

What do you think?
Underpowered to the point of being useless.
 
iamnuff said:
so suggest a change.
[X] Boosted Gear Prominence
Boosted Gear loses its ability to enhance the qualities of objects. This is because it is now channeling Solar essence as much as draconic power, and it requires a target that is theoretically capable of wielding Solar essence. Devils, fallen angels, and other humanoid creatures always apply even if they are considered Creatures of Darkness.

Boosted Gear's ability to enhance living targets is permanently altered. Rather than enhancing the target's abilities by virtue of a numerical modifier or multiplier, a Transfer now gives the target temporary access to Solar charms known by the gear-user as well as a mote pool of Solar essence with which to power them. The number of charms "learned" in this way is equal to (Solar's permanent essence score + target's permanent essence score) but the charms cannot be used unless the target character has "learned" all of the prerequisites for that charm. The size of the mote pool is equal to the number of motes the Solar spent to empower them. Motes spent to empower the target character can only be spent from the Solar's Boosted Gear overdrive pool. This mote pool and all "learned" charms disappears after the target character's third DV refresh
 
Smuthunter said:
[X] Boosted Gear Prominence
Boosted Gear loses its ability to enhance the qualities of objects. This is because it is now channeling Solar essence as much as draconic power, and it requires a target that is theoretically capable of wielding Solar essence. Devils, fallen angels, and other humanoid creatures always apply even if they are considered Creatures of Darkness.

Boosted Gear's ability to enhance living targets is permanently altered. Rather than enhancing the target's abilities by virtue of a numerical modifier or multiplier, a Gift now gives the target temporary access to Solar charms known by him as well as a mote pool of Solar essence with which to power them. The number of charms "learned" in this way is equal to (Solar's permanent essence score + target's permanent essence score), and the size of the mote pool is equal to the number of motes the Solar spent to empower them. Motes spent to empower the target character can only be spent from the Solar's Boosted Gear overdrive pool. This mote pool and all "learned" charms disappears after the target character's third DV refresh

But see if we go with this option then we will never get anything relevent to anyone already strong because of your the threads voting habits. No melee charms for kiba because hey why waste our time on it? Casters simply won't be able to be empowered because they run off of a different kind of energy. Frankly the only kind of person we can actually empower is going to be martial arts. And thats no good unless they have also learned celestial martial arts which your write in doesn't provide. So it ~may~ sound nice but it doesn't work out to be even a mediocre power up.
 
Smuthunter said:
[X] Boosted Gear Prominence
Boosted Gear loses its ability to enhance the qualities of objects. This is because it is now channeling Solar essence as much as draconic power, and it requires a target that is theoretically capable of wielding Solar essence. Devils, fallen angels, and other humanoid creatures always apply even if they are considered Creatures of Darkness.

Boosted Gear's ability to enhance living targets is permanently altered. Rather than enhancing the target's abilities by virtue of a numerical modifier or multiplier, a Transfer now gives the target temporary access to Solar charms known by the gear-user as well as a mote pool of Solar essence with which to power them. The number of charms "learned" in this way is equal to (Solar's permanent essence score + target's permanent essence score) but the charms cannot be used unless the target character has "learned" all of the prerequisites for that charm. The size of the mote pool is equal to the number of motes the Solar spent to empower them. Motes spent to empower the target character can only be spent from the Solar's Boosted Gear overdrive pool. This mote pool and all "learned" charms disappears after the target character's third DV refresh

Err, nah, People can't solar charms unless they are a solar, having solar essence isn't enough.
 
Fellgar said:
But see if we go with this option then we will never get anything relevent to anyone already strong because of your the threads voting habits. No melee charms for kiba because hey why waste our time on it? Casters simply won't be able to be empowered because they run off of a different kind of energy.
We can give people perfect defenses. We can take our enemies completely by surprise by empowering, say, Koneko, and then suddenly she has the Martial Arts Excellency and is throwing around Holy Dragon Waves. We can give Asia Monkey Leap Technique so she can escape from danger if she's in a pinch. The DV limit also ensures that they'll be burning through their pool as quickly and awesomely as they can.

Carrnage said:
Err, nah, People can't solar charms unless they are a solar, having solar essence isn't enough.
It is if we say it is.
 
Smuthunter said:
We can give people perfect defenses. We can take our enemies completely by surprise by empowering, say, Koneko, and then suddenly she has the Martial Arts Excellency and is throwing around Holy Dragon Waves. We can give Asia Monkey Leap Technique so she can escape from danger if she's in a pinch. The DV limit also ensures that they'll be burning through their pool as quickly and awesomely as they can.
It is if we say it is.
Weak sauce man. It lasts for what? A few seconds? Minute at the outside? Why not just carry Asia from danger since we are already right next to her? Why weaken ourself like that to let one person get away? Anyways:

How about this as an idea. Transfer as a concept. Where as before the gear would have amassed and then transfered power to be blown as one load now we take that up a laterally. We can transfer temporarily our skills, abilities, and/or the level of power gained. Think about it.

Lets go back to the root of the gift first of all. The base ability of gift should remain, where in the number of times it managed to boost could be transfered and integrated into the other persons power pool.

Now consider that our solar exaltation effectively grafted on skills after we gained it, what if we could have an "experience" pool we could use to improve their skills and make them temporarily better. I'm not quite sure how that could translate in mechanics but we basically boost up and then temporaroly empower a person to be the best in a single field of ability applied to the solar skill set. Wouldn't that be a better ability. Our one advantage as a solar compared to everyone else is we learn fast and in broad ways, why not "transfer" that ability to others? I'm not thinking they should get a lot of experience, just enough to bump it a few dots in key skills.
 
Fellgar said:
Weak sauce man. It lasts for what? A few seconds? Minute at the outside?
Three DV refreshes, which is exactly how long our own stat boosts last. That's three rounds of combat, plenty of time to blow the whole pool on an all-out assault from an unexpected angle.

Now consider that our solar exaltation effectively grafted on abilities after we gained it
Not really, no. Those charms are expressions of things we already had. We didn't know anything about martial arts until we started training in it, but we had dots in Resistance and Crafting and stuff -- things Issei knew from his normal student life.

what if we could have an "experience" pool we could use to improve their skills and make them temporarily better. I'm not quite sure how that could translate in mechanics but we basically boost up and then temporaroly empower a person to be the best in a single field of ability applied to the solar skill set. Wouldn't that be a better ability.
Not really? Giving them dots in abilities as opposed to giving them charms which are way more powerful and useful is a bad choice.
 
Another option is to give the target of gifted gear, a mote pool and the ability to use all ability variations of the first excellency. Probably the dragonblooded version for the sake of the mote efficiency.
 
Alexander I wish you luck in finding a good way to balance out Transfer. Mixing game mechanics between universes is going to be...tricky. I will say that I don't think we necessarily should stick with the ability to enhance the qualities of objects. With his exalted characteristics & mote pool our Sacred Gear provides us a substantially different effect than it did for caon Issei. Consequently I think the "Transfer" mechanic whatever the effect, it should probably involve an exalted mechanic like motes.

Personally I support Smuthunter's Plan. But I'm interested whether mechanically you think it's balanced for the game. I like it, if for no other reason than it lets Ruby use Celestial charms. I like how it allows Issei to support his harem, to use his own strength to keep them safe & let them hit harder.

[X] Boosted Gear Prominence
Boosted Gear loses its ability to enhance the qualities of objects. This is because it is now channeling Solar essence as much as draconic power, and it requires a target that is theoretically capable of wielding Solar essence. Devils, fallen angels, and other humanoid creatures always apply even if they are considered Creatures of Darkness.

Boosted Gear's ability to enhance living targets is permanently altered. Rather than enhancing the target's abilities by virtue of a numerical modifier or multiplier, a Transfer now gives the target temporary access to Solar charms known by the gear-user as well as a mote pool of Solar essence with which to power them. The number of charms "learned" in this way is equal to (Solar's permanent essence score + target's permanent essence score) but the charms cannot be used unless the target character has "learned" all of the prerequisites for that charm. The size of the mote pool is equal to the number of motes the Solar spent to empower them. Motes spent to empower the target character can only be spent from the Solar's Boosted Gear overdrive pool. This mote pool and all "learned" charms disappears after the target character's third DV refresh.
 
megrisvernin said:
Alexander I wish you luck in finding a good way to balance out Transfer. Mixing game mechanics between universes is going to be...tricky. I will say that I don't think we necessarily should stick with the ability to enhance the qualities of objects. With his exalted characteristics & mote pool our Sacred Gear provides us a substantially different effect than it did for caon Issei. Consequently I think the "Transfer" mechanic whatever the effect, it should probably involve an exalted mechanic like motes.

Personally I support Smuthunter's Plan. But I'm interested whether mechanically you think it's balanced for the game. I like it, if for no other reason than it lets Ruby use Celestial charms. I like how it allows Issei to support his harem, to use his own strength to keep them safe & let them hit harder.

[X] Boosted Gear Prominence
Boosted Gear loses its ability to enhance the qualities of objects. This is because it is now channeling Solar essence as much as draconic power, and it requires a target that is theoretically capable of wielding Solar essence. Devils, fallen angels, and other humanoid creatures always apply even if they are considered Creatures of Darkness.

Boosted Gear's ability to enhance living targets is permanently altered. Rather than enhancing the target's abilities by virtue of a numerical modifier or multiplier, a Transfer now gives the target temporary access to Solar charms known by the gear-user as well as a mote pool of Solar essence with which to power them. The number of charms "learned" in this way is equal to (Solar's permanent essence score + target's permanent essence score) but the charms cannot be used unless the target character has "learned" all of the prerequisites for that charm. The size of the mote pool is equal to the number of motes the Solar spent to empower them. Motes spent to empower the target character can only be spent from the Solar's Boosted Gear overdrive pool. This mote pool and all "learned" charms disappears after the target character's third DV refresh.

honestly, none of the charms we have at the moment as especially impressive, most of our combat ones will be part of our martial art, which nobody else can use.

even if ruby could use C martial arts, she would be using white-reaper, right?

just boost her stats line originally suggested, the ability to quadrupedal her speed is hardly something to be under-estimated.

giving her a copy of OUR charms won't be anywhere near as useful (or as fun) as giving her raw stat-boosts.

if only because it will force her to use our fighting style (if not our martial art) which is lame

[X] Alex version of boosted gear
 
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iamnuff said:
honestly, none of the charms we have at the moment as especially impressive, most of our combat ones will be part of our martial art, which nobody else can use.

even if ruby could use C martial arts, she would be using white-reaper, right?

just boost her stats line originally suggested, the ability to quadrupedal her speed is hardly something to be under-estimated.

giving her a copy of OUR charms won't be anywhere near as useful (or as fun) as giving her raw stat-boosts.

if only because it will force her to use our fighting style (if not our martial art) which is lame

[X] Alex version of boosted gear
Didn't canon Issei get ridiculous multipliers in his strength fro his Sacred Gear? On the order of 32x, 64x & higher? And he could Transfer out to others? I prefer the current mote multiplier but it seems like the effect of transfer is being nerfed a bit.

4x ...isn't so impressive. Unless Alexander is otherwise balancing out what's a broken mechanic somehow. Like 4x strength actually being viable against low to mid range devils(when multiplying the base of a character like Ruby).

My read of this
The number of charms "learned" in this way is equal to (Solar's permanent essence score + target's permanent essence score) but the charms cannot be used unless the target character has "learned" all of the prerequisites for that charm.

Is that we have to train whoever we're empowering, say Asia, in the charm & its prerequisites that we'll be using before the fight. So she can't use Monkey Leap Technique on the spot in combat. We'd have to train her to use it.
 
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Yes, higher then that. He regularly used stuff in the 1024x, 2048x and 4096x boosts. There's a reason the thing's a Longinus: you keep it going long enough, and you can beat anything.

And yes, Alexander's versions are highly nerfed.
 
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BFldyq said:
Yes, higher then that. He regularly used stuff in the 1024x, 2048x and 4096x boosts. There's a reason the thing's a Longinus: you keep it going long enough, and you can beat anything.

And yes, Alexander's versions are highly nerfed.

Hmm.


I think we're running into mechanics being a bit unbalanced here. A 4x boost is good, but it pales in comparison to say the 1024x Boost Issei had in canon. He could transfer that effect as well.

I don't mind you nerfing it to lower than that, 1024x & higher feels like there was considerable power creep in the series, but I'd ask you do some balancing so that the mechanic means more. That a 4x enhanced Yang for instance can harm a low tier & at least scratch a mid tier devil. She doesn't need to be able to harm a Satan, but 4x seems like it doesn't mean much compared to canon again unless there's some powerbalancing.
 
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as things stand, this really is a whole new Sacred Gear, and as of yet we have no idea just how good it will get after its evolved a few times, and because of Bright thats been speed up, as a starting level ability what we have now is rather awesome, be nicer if it was just a combat overdrive pool rather then offensive but you can't have everything, and being able to give motes/stat boosts is rather nice, particularly since I don't see any upper limit there, or a may have skipped over it, it happens. but as I was saying, the whole thing with this is its the first sacred gear that has run face first into Exalted metaphysics, the fact its doing anything at all at this point is amazing... on a side note, I would laugh myself sick if Vali's SG dosn't work on us, I think if that happened Ddraig would consider this to be a massive upgrade, after all, anything that lets him kick that White guys ass without his user going nuts and getting eaten if an improvement /laugh
 
megrisvernin said:
My read of this
Is that we have to train whoever we're empowering, say Asia, in the charm & its prerequisites that we'll be using before the fight. So she can't use Monkey Leap Technique on the spot in combat. We'd have to train her to use it.
Oh heck no. That just means that if you want to give someone a charm that's really deep in a tree -- say, World-Scarring Solar Glory -- then you also have to give them the prerequisite charms that you needed to buy before you could learn it. Of course many charms will see better results if the character is trained in the appropriate skill -- giving Asia a bunch of martial arts charms won't help her so much if she has zero dots in Martial Arts, but many charms like Adamant Skin Technique function just fine regardless of skill levels.

EternitynChaos said:
as things stand, this really is a whole new Sacred Gear, and as of yet we have no idea just how good it will get after its evolved a few times, and because of Bright thats been speed up, as a starting level ability what we have now is rather awesome, be nicer if it was just a combat overdrive pool rather then offensive but you can't have everything, and being able to give motes/stat boosts is rather nice, particularly since I don't see any upper limit there, or a may have skipped over it, it happens. but as I was saying, the whole thing with this is its the first sacred gear that has run face first into Exalted metaphysics, the fact its doing anything at all at this point is amazing... on a side note, I would laugh myself sick if Vali's SG dosn't work on us, I think if that happened Ddraig would consider this to be a massive upgrade, after all, anything that lets him kick that White guys ass without his user going nuts and getting eaten if an improvement /laugh
I'm okay with the basic premise of Alexander's mechanics, I just feel that there isn't enough benefit based on the number of motes needed to buy those enhancements. If Transfer becomes more powerful as Boosted Gear continues to evolve then I have no problem with it.
 
EternitynChaos said:
as things stand, this really is a whole new Sacred Gear, and as of yet we have no idea just how good it will get after its evolved a few times, and because of Bright thats been speed up, as a starting level ability what we have now is rather awesome, be nicer if it was just a combat overdrive pool rather then offensive but you can't have everything, and being able to give motes/stat boosts is rather nice, particularly since I don't see any upper limit there, or a may have skipped over it, it happens. but as I was saying, the whole thing with this is its the first sacred gear that has run face first into Exalted metaphysics, the fact its doing anything at all at this point is amazing... on a side note, I would laugh myself sick if Vali's SG dosn't work on us, I think if that happened Ddraig would consider this to be a massive upgrade, after all, anything that lets him kick that White guys ass without his user going nuts and getting eaten if an improvement /laugh

A point!

I wouldn't mind a lower level transfer ability now if we knew it could improve later.

The physical enhancement does improve with time. Hmm.

Personally since our Sacred Gear gives us motes I want to see the transfer function do that as well. Given that we can use our motes from our Sacred gear for more than just physical reinforcement it feels odd to see that restriction on the transfer ability.

I'd rather see us either able to do a straightforward physical enhancement like what Issei did in canon(with 64x & higher multiplies) that he can transfer or a mote pool the target can use.

Limiting motes to physical enhancement feels like an attempt to emulate canon Issei's Transfer ability when our Issei uses his Sacred Gear in a very different way already.

Smuthunter said:
Oh heck no. That just means that if you want to give someone a charm that's really deep in a tree -- say, World-Scarring Solar Glory -- then you also have to give them the prerequisite charms that you needed to buy before you could learn it. Of course many charms will see better results if the character is trained in the appropriate skill -- giving Asia a bunch of martial arts charms won't help her so much if she has zero dots in Martial Arts, but many charms like Adamant Skin Technique function just fine regardless of skill levels.
I'm okay with the basic premise of Alexander's mechanics, I just feel that there isn't enough benefit based on the number of motes needed to buy those enhancements. If Transfer becomes more powerful as Boosted Gear continues to evolve then I have no problem with it.

Hmm. Can you comment thematically whether only being able to use the effects of transfer for physical enhancement makes sense? It just doesn't for me. We can use the motes from it for a bunch of a different effects & I don't get why we'd be limited in that way when we transfer it to others.
 
megrisvernin said:
Hmm. Can you comment thematically whether only being able to use the effects of transfer for physical enhancement makes sense? It just doesn't for me. We can use the motes from it for a bunch of a different effects & I don't get why we'd be limited in that way when we transfer it to others. It again feels like it's trying to ape the effect of Canon Issei's abilities for no particular reason.
We can use those motes for a wide variety of stuff -- but we're a Solar, and that's Solar essence we're using. Other people not being able to use it in the same ways makes sense unless you're also giving them the ability to use Solar charms. Limiting it to physical enhancements makes sense even if it kind of sucks. The power of Transfer has always been in its multiplier effect, which we aren't using anymore, so it's more useful to use it for spell fuel. Notice that we've only used the status boost feature once in the fight with Dohnaseek, every other time we've been using it as a mote pool for our offensive charms. That fatigue penalty kind of sucks.
 
Smuthunter said:
We can use those motes for a wide variety of stuff -- but we're a Solar, and that's Solar essence we're using. Other people not being able to use it in the same ways makes sense unless you're also giving them the ability to use Solar charms. Limiting it to physical enhancements makes sense even if it kind of sucks. The power of Transfer has always been in its multiplier effect, which we aren't using anymore, so it's more useful to use it for spell fuel. Notice that we've only used the status boost feature once in the fight with Dohnaseek, every other time we've been using it as a mote pool for our offensive charms. That fatigue penalty kind of sucks.
it's solar/dragon essence really.
 
See? That's exactly why I pulled off the Transfer part until now?

The problem is that DxD Rin's on Dragonball's powerlevels (more energy=better stats), while Exalted runs on "you so good at something you can do the impossible". They're distant light years, and the reason we need to find a way for BG to work differently.

Smuthunter's version is nice, but...

Both our version lacks something. And yes, now I see mine was too nerfed.
 
Alexander said:
See? That's exactly why I pulled off the Transfer part until now?

The problem is that DxD Rin's on Dragonball's powerlevels (more energy=better stats), while Exalted runs on "you so good at something you can do the impossible". They're distant light years, and the reason we need to find a way for BG to work differently.

Smuthunter's version is nice, but...

Both our version lacks something. And yes, now I see mine was too nerfed.

Why not 'combine' the two in sense. That the latter is used to scale the former, using a ratio between the two? Or something along those lines. Having access to a stupid amount of power doesn't strictly translate into the ability to use it effectively... without consequences... or without physical limitations... or say, bodily limitations.
 
Maybe do something Involving Issei's Caste?

Twilight are supposed to be Item crafters. So maybe he can transfer power to a person the same way a Twilight create certain items?

Not really sure about what Exalted Items can do though.
 

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