Just a Phase [Worm]

[KingCrimson1081]

Emma's confession can easily be blocked from going on the record by her parents and Sophia will not confess.

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I must point out that if there was an investigation that leads to a trial the fact that Emma's parents and the PRT are both actively blocking her confession from being added looks very suspicious and would probably effect any decisions from the judge or jury in regards to any hypothetical trial. There is also the fact that Emma would definitely have to take the stand at some point during the trial due to being one of the accused and based on her current state she would probably confess in court as well. Also even if Sophia doesn't confess she will most likely be giving a statement that contradicts what both Emma and Taylor say which due to Sophia's status as a probationary ward would very suspicious more so if Emma and Taylor's version of events are similar.

 

[Ina_Meishou]

Do we seriously think that a lawyer will agree to his daughter confesseing to any crime without a deal being part of that?

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So her father blocks her confession from being legally recorded as a confession.

The fact that she said it can still be used as reasonable cause to actually investigate. And there's plenty the girls have done that is basically impossible for the girls to hide. Electronic records are hilariously hard to delete when you don't have physical control of the servers they were transmitted through.

As such the actions by PRT Boston can't be seen as a continuation of this policy but we have to assume they actually take their role seriously and work under false information.

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Armstrong and his top level guys have made it abundantly clear that they've been read in on the situation, so yes actually, their actions can absolutely be taken as a continuation of the ENE policy of coverup and deny. Because their actions are taken in the explicit context of knowing exactly why their new ward has zero interest in spending a second with anyone involved in the organization. And while their subordinates haven't been read in on the full context, they're acting on orders given by people who are. Which means that yes, their actions are also a continuation of the ENE policy of coverup and deny.

And yes there are ways to get people on the hook on an organisational level but that needs you to basically proof that the organisation itself is a criminal enterprise. And good luck proveing that for the offical goverment heores. You know the guys who bleed and die every three month for the rest of us.

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Taylor doesn't give a tinker's damn about 'getting people on the hook on an organizational level' in a legal context.

Her position is very explicit in the text, regardless of whether the PRT and Protectorate are legally responsible for her treatment, the fact that it happened at all under their watch, and more importantly that their immediate and ongoing reaction was and has been to deny, coverup, lie to her dad, snatch her out of the city, and impress her into service against her consent...all that means that whatever the law may be, she considers them morally culpable.

And, as laid out above, she's basically right. Because so far nobody in the PRT has at any point given her any reason to believe otherwise, and we as the audience have seen explicit examples of their behavior outside their interactions with her directly that demonstrate that they either don't care about her at all, or are so utterly myopic about their position in the organization that they're incapable of processing any context in which the organization isn't the best way to solve things.

Per WoG, the PRT isn't actually breaking many or any laws here, because the law code regarding protection of minors, employees, and human rights in general are swiss cheese when it comes to parahumans in this AU. That's fair enough, and absolves the PRT and Protectorate of criminal responsibility.

It doesn't absolve them of common sense responsibility. Because again, as shown in this story, all their 'technically legal in this AU' shenanigans have manifestly failed to result in their desired end goal, in most cases actively making their desired end goal less achievable.

That makes them, if not criminal due to AU, at the very least explicitly incompetent.

 

[Brian1973]

I must point out that if there was an investigation that leads to a trial the fact that Emma's parents and the PRT are both actively blocking her confession from being added looks very suspicious and would probably effect any decisions from the judge or jury in regards to any hypothetical trial. There is also the fact that Emma would definitely have to take the stand at some point during the trial due to being one of the accused and based on her current state she would probably confess in court as well. Also even if Sophia doesn't confess she will most likely be giving a statement that contradicts what both Emma and Taylor say which due to Sophia's status as a probationary ward would very suspicious more so if Emma and Taylor's version of events are similar.

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Nope that is not how that works. The rules state very explicitly you have the right to remain silent and you never have to accuse yourself of any crime. The DA even trying to mention that the accused remaining silent (as is their right here executed by parental rights) during the trial = instant mistrial. The DA mentioning any evidence that was not allowed under the rules during the trial = mistrial (and a confesion that does not jump the legal hoops is such evidence). If you are afraid of biased jurors there is trial by judge though that may depend on the rules under which charges are pressed. But as said what can be presented to the jurors and what not is discussed without them present and no judge would allow a improper confession in. Judges don't like being called amateurs by the appeal courts ...

Who will force Sophia to give a statement in the first place? Litterally the frist words when they tell you your rights are: "You have the right to remain silent." Also Sophia is not above lying and with Emma remaining silent there is no contradicting stories since one talks the other doesn't. And yes Emma talks but as said anything out of her mouth it baby babble at best and grounds for fruits from the forbidden tree at worst.

So her father blocks her confession from being legally recorded as a confession.

The fact that she said it can still be used as reasonable cause to actually investigate. And there's plenty the girls have done that is basically impossible for the girls to hide. Electronic records are hilariously hard to delete when you don't have physical control of the servers they were transmitted through.

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Evidence found based on other improper evidence being used can just as well lead to fruit from the forbidden tree and you just made sure all electronic records you looked at because of Emma's confession get chucked out. Overall I would agree that a bunch of schoolgirls will have a hard time to clean up their act. But any investigation has one great enemy and that is time. Lots of electronic evidence gets deleted/overwritten all the time. In addition when I pointed out that it should be easy to find such someone made a good case to me that Sophia should be decent in covering her tracks given how long she was able to do her vigilante gick without being uncovered at all. So there is a distinct possibility that she and Emma used stuff like burner phones that got regulary discarded and for the internet harrasment they could use accseses that are not ones linked to them as well.

In addition with the whole cape culture thing I can't imagine there are no ways for anoymous communication (and even monetary transfers and such). Probably not Thinker safe ones but you won't get Thinker time for an investigation into something this small (they are tracking the big stuff after all like S Class threats and major market manipulations by villians). And as a former vigilante cape Sophia would know about those (after all she must have at least bought the supplies for her cape carrer before she joined the Wards somehow without getting unmasked).

 

[Ina_Meishou]

Evidence found based on other improper evidence being used can just as well lead to fruit from the forbidden tree and you just made sure all electronic records you looked at because of Emma's confession get chucked out.

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That's fair, and a mistake on my part. If they directly used her confession as a pretext for their investigation it wouldn't work.

Of course, it was also my mistake to suggest they'd need to base their investigation on her confession to begin with. They've already got an accusation and extensive documentation, and so long as they explicitly base their records requests and subopeanas on that rather than the confession, the rest of their evidence wouldn't fall under Fruit of the poisonous tree.

Not that it really matters, since this is almost certainly never going to go to trial. The PRT wants to have it's cake and eat it too. They want Sophia and Emma and Taylor as Wards. And a trial would almost certainly loose them at least one or the other party, or both.

If it wouldn't, then they'd already have let the investigation go forward. Because if they thought they could put on a sham trial and get their existing Wards a slap on the wrist, or a not-guilty/aquittal while putting on a show of accommodating the new one they'd do it. The motivation for them not to is that they know that attempted murder of a normal human girl would not get their Wards a slap on the wrist.

After all, this is the AU where parahumans have no rights and the law is slanted against them right? And Emma and Sophia were parahumans abusing a non parahuman for over a year...

 

[ConsiderableHat]

he girl that decided to bully the crap out of her former sister in all but blood until it ended in a murder attempt because it feels good and lets herself think she is strong is not crazy?

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Crazy, sure. Quite possibly seriously mentally ill. Not, however, insane, which is a legal term rather than a colloquial one, as 'crazy' is, or a psychiatric one like 'mentally ill'.

You can be as crazy as you like, and quite remarkably mentally ill, and still be fit to plead (initial test, establishing the defendant is capable of at least minimally following proceedings) and competent enough to be criminally responsible (which allows you to be convicted).

Mental illness may be entered in mitigation of sentence and should get you the attention of prison psychiatrists, budget permitting. It may even mean you spending part of your sentence in a secure unit of a psychiatric hospital and involuntarily committed thereto at the end of your sentence, although budget restrictions mean that's rare.

Insane means 'unable to understand the nature and quality of your actions, or unable to understand that they were wrong', a 19th century rule of law (look up M'Naghten rule for the exact formulation) that precludes conviction. It is a very tough case to make in a criminal defence and as a result is hardly ever tried and only works in a tiny fraction of the cases where it is.

 

[Nikas_Zekeval]

I'm waiting for Lisa's POV on the Phase Situation. I mean the set up broading mirrors her own trigger, and aftermath with authority that considered her a burden at best turning to exploit her shiny new power that came from the situation they enigneered.

 

[BF110C4]

Insane means 'unable to understand the nature and quality of your actions, or unable to understand that they were wrong'

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Agreed, Emma understood her actions were wrong, to the point she hid them from the authorities, and there were in plenty of occasions premeditated, requiring her to do her preparations in cold blood or wait until there weren't people who would stop her, such as The Locker Incident. So while she miscalculated the reaction of her primary victim to the repeated abuse, she knew she was abusing her and that other people would find it both illegal and immoral.

So yeah, any moderately competent DA would destroy an insanity plea defense with the facts available.

 

[Tanaxanth]

Omake- The Cooler Queen.

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Well at least she wasn't whistling this


Just imagine being compared to Klink

 

[Nikas_Zekeval]

Just imagine being compared to Klink

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Probably compare the people up in Boston to Sgt. Schultz. "I know nothing, nothing!"

 

[BF110C4]

Probably compare the people up in Boston to Sgt. Schultz. "I know nothing, nothing!"

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Ironically the right answer from PR would be for one of their sock puppets to go to PHO, point the reference and get one of the Wards (ideally from a different state) to geek over the Hogan's Heroes reference and start a comedy movies pop quiz in the thread. By the time the target audience actually realize the implications odds are that the discussion will be about how Squealer is a fan of the Blues Brothers and its own infamous nazi scene, with any social commentary lost when people start asking when Kid Win will make a proton pack from the Aleph movie Ghosts Busters.

 

[KingCrimson1081]

Ironically the right answer from PR would be for one of their sock puppets to go to PHO, point the reference and get one of the Wards (ideally from a different state) to geek over the Hogan's Heroes reference and start a comedy movies pop quiz in the thread. By the time the target audience actually realize the implications odds are that the discussion will be about how Squealer is a fan of the Blues Brothers and its own infamous nazi scene, with any social commentary lost when people start asking when Kid Win will make a proton pack from the Aleph movie Ghosts Busters.

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Knowing the PRT they would probably get someone from Brockton to make the post due to their distance from Boston. My money on it being Emma or whatever PR intern is running her account these days making the post specifically, or it actually be Emma doing it as a misguided means of trying to stay a part of Taylor's life despite the walls Taylor put up, and besides Taylor and Emma haven't really interacted in nearly two years so who knows how much her interests have changed since then. Personally I believe Emma would have a very active Wards PHO account due to her pathological need to have people fawning over her so she is probably fairly active with her fanbase.

 

[BF110C4]

Knowing the PRT they would probably get someone from Brockton to make the post due to their distance from Boston. My money on it being Emma or whatever PR intern is running her account these days making the post specifically, or it actually be Emma doing it as a misguided means of trying to stay a part of Taylor's life despite the walls Taylor put up, and besides Taylor and Emma haven't really interacted in nearly two years so who knows how much her interests have changed since then. Personally I believe Emma would have a very active Wards PHO account due to her pathological need to have people fawning over her so she is probably fairly active with her fanbase.

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Knowing the PRT in general, maybe. But while Amstrong might not be the first person to ask how to help a teenage girl deal with years of accumulated trauma is not an idiot, so he problably would call to NY or LA or the Eerie Indiana office before even thinking about calling the BB PRT to do spin control in a Phase related incident.

And while I can effortless believe that Emma's attention whore behavior would include PHO as well as social media in general I think that after all of the problems she has caused, included that last call to Taylor, would have ALL of her electronic communications devices monitored to hell and back, including having both her personal and official PHO accounts removed from her control and allowed to post only with intense supervision (and with Armsmaster resenting being censored and fined by YG you can bet it will include a gadget to block even borrowed smartphones) so her posting on any Phase related thread will be erased before she can even publish.

 

[Nikas_Zekeval]

Knowing the PRT in general, maybe. But while Amstrong might not be the first person to ask how to help a teenage girl deal with years of accumulated trauma is not an idiot, so he problably would call to NY or LA or the Eerie Indiana office before even thinking about calling the BB PRT to do spin control in a Phase related incident.

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The thing is? Armstrong wouldn't be the guy posting this, or even the guy directing the strategy. It'd be an intern doing the posting, and even the guy directing the overall strategy might not be read in on the shit show that has been Taylor's interaction with the Wards to date.

IOW, it is only an obvious mistake if you have need to know why Phase is so pissed off. Poor communication kills after all.

And while I can effortless believe that Emma's attention whore behavior would include PHO as well as social media in general I think that after all of the problems she has caused, included that last call to Taylor, would have ALL of her electronic communications devices monitored to hell and back, including having both her personal and official PHO accounts removed from her control and allowed to post only with intense supervision (and with Armsmaster resenting being censored and fined by YG you can bet it will include a gadget to block even borrowed smartphones) so her posting on any Phase related thread will be erased before she can even publish.

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It took a Youth Guard complaint to get a block put in place between Taylor and Brockton Bay on her official Wards phone. I'm not so confident they put in any other blocks

 

[BF110C4]

The thing is? Armstrong wouldn't be the guy posting this, or even the guy directing the strategy. It'd be an intern doing the posting, and even the guy directing the overall strategy might not be read in on the shit show that has been Taylor's interaction with the Wards to date.

IOW, it is only an obvious mistake if you have need to know why Phase is so pissed off. Poor communication kills after all.



It took a Youth Guard complaint to get a block put in place between Taylor and Brockton Bay on her official Wards phone. I'm not so confident they put in any other blocks

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Amstrong is not directing the PR countermeasures but as I said before, he is not stupid, he probably read the PR department on the issues that they were expected to never touch by accident and to redirect attention if someone else does, and someone not briefed like an intern won't have the authority to contact other regional offices for help in what is basically a minor PR hiccup (teens comparing any authority figure with a nazi is almost as old as nazism itself).

On the matter of restrictions regarding communication? Emma might not be in jail for her crimes, but I cannot see her being spared of any of the more conventional punishments every teen has ever been threatened by parents, teachers and miscellaneous authority figures since the invention of the telephone.

Plus the initial fine a YG can levy on the local PRT office is $10,000, the second $20,000 and any other after that $30,000, if they didn't punished her before they sure as hell are keeping her on restricted comms, and even without a Tinker present, is trivial to put restrictions that force her computer and phone to connect to official and family numbers or websites only.

 

[Ina_Meishou]

Amstrong is not directing the PR countermeasures but as I said before, he is not stupid, he probably read the PR department on the issues that they were expected to never touch by accident and to redirect attention if someone else does, and someone not briefed like an intern won't have the authority to contact other regional offices for help in what is basically a minor PR hiccup (teens comparing any authority figure with a nazi is almost as old as nazism itself).

On the matter of restrictions regarding communication? Emma might not be in jail for her crimes, but I cannot see her being spared of any of the more conventional punishments every teen has ever been threatened by parents, teachers and miscellaneous authority figures since the invention of the telephone.

Plus the initial fine a YG can levy on the local PRT office is $10,000, the second $20,000 and any other after that $30,000, if they didn't punished her before they sure as hell are keeping her on restricted comms, and even without a Tinker present, is trivial to put restrictions that force her computer and phone to connect to official and family numbers or websites only.

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We've already had an interlude which implied rather heavily that theleadership of the PR team either hasn't been properly briefed about the Phase situation, or are so incompetent that they don't really understand the root cause of the issue.

If the first, they won't have the context to understand why involving other wards might backfire. If the second, they simply lack a third graders intelligence.

 

[KingCrimson1081]

We've already had an interlude which implied rather heavily that theleadership of the PR team either hasn't been properly briefed about the Phase situation, or are so incompetent that they don't really understand the root cause of the issue.

If the first, they won't have the context to understand why involving other wards might backfire. If the second, they simply lack a third graders intelligence.

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Yep, and since they don't know the larger context of things I can easily imagine they would reach out to their closest neighbor for help with the PR spin and in this case their closest neighbor is Brockton, and plus Phase was briefly in the BB Wards so it would be easy to have one of the BB Wards pretend to know about her interests. As for them picking Emma or at least Emma's account well its Emma who is pretty good at pulling off the bitch in sheep's clothing act so she is probably the Ward with the most positive media presence in Brockton so she would be the natural pick to do it.

 

[Nikas_Zekeval]

Yep, and since they don't know the larger context of things I can easily imagine they would reach out to their closest neighbor for help with the PR spin and in this case their closest neighbor is Brockton, and plus Phase was briefly in the BB Wards so it would be easy to have on of the BB Wards pretend to know about her interests. As for them picking Emma or at least Emma's account well its Emma who is pretty good at pulling off the bitch in sheep's clothing act so she is probably the Ward with the most positive media presence in Brockton so she would be the natural pick to do it.

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Maybe the head of the PR department knows, maybe. But however much he knows or suspects? He won't, or can't, share that with his subordinates.

"It was her, Vista, or Shadow Stalker. Vista is too focused, and younger than Phase. And Stalker? At best her responses would have been monosyllabic, if positive at all. And the boys? Given her short tenure there, we didn't want them to come across as stalkerish. No one told us we had to worry about the girls her age on that team."

 

[KingCrimson1081]

Maybe the head of the PR department knows, maybe. But however much he knows or suspects? He won't, or can't, share that with his subordinates.

"It was her, Vista, or Shadow Stalker. Vista is too focused, and younger than Phase. And Stalker? At best her responses would have been monosyllabic, if positive at all. And the boys? Given her short tenure there, we didn't want them to come across as stalkerish. No one told us we had to worry about the girls her age on that team."

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Plausible deniability is key in that situation since the people in Brockton are trying to keep this as quiet as possible. As for Emma being the natural choice, well it's said to sat but Emma is probably one if the few people on the team that can pull off the normal person act despite all her issues which says a lot more about the team then it does about Emma, it is also another sign about the horrendous mental health support the Brockton Bay Wards are receiving.

 

[Blade4]

Having Emma do anything is if anything a horrible bad idea because then if/when things go pear shape it looks like the prt really is actively trying to cover up what happened and is helping a monster cover up her crimes. They best hope that Taylor never finds out about that thread.

 

[Nikas_Zekeval]

Having Emma do anything is if anything a horrible bad idea because then if/when things go pear shape it looks like the prt really is actively trying to cover up what happened and is helping a monster cover up her crimes. They best hope that Taylor never finds out about that thread.

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My point is, the person doing this won't have the information to know this. Because the PRT is covering the scandal up

 

[KingCrimson1081]

I wonder, since Wards get official PHO accounts is it within the realms of possibility that the PR department set one up for Phase and have some intern run it as a means of damage control whenever Taylor does something to make the organization look bad.

 

[Nikas_Zekeval]

I wonder, since Wards get official PHO accounts is it within the realms of possibility that the PR department set one up for Phase and have some intern run it as a means of damage control whenever Taylor does something to make the organization look bad.

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Since it would be confusing to start an account under a temporary ID, then transition everything to the official one? Like the costume, PR debut, and branding I'd say her official PHO account requires power testing. Or at least the whole PR set up that can only come after power testing.

 

[KingCrimson1081]

Since it would be confusing to start an account under a temporary ID, then transition everything to the official one? Like the costume, PR debut, and branding I'd say her official PHO account requires power testing. Or at least the whole PR set up that can only come after power testing.

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To be fair at this point even if Taylor decides to go through power testing she has stuck with the Phase ID for long enough they might not bother changing it since you know it is probably what they have been putting on all her official documents at the moment so it would be a bother to go back and change it.

 

[Blade4]

My point is, the person doing this won't have the information to know this. Because the PRT is covering the scandal up

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But they will very fast because any data package to start should include the Phase is not to be contacted by anyone at the ENE red flag and once they start trying to set things up even Emma will look at them like the fuck is wrong with you and the higher ups will have rush to stop things or the youth guard will have one more thing to gouge the ENE and oh yeah the guy is gonna be pissed because he will know he was set to walk on a land mine by someone.

I wonder, since Wards get official PHO accounts is it within the realms of possibility that the PR department set one up for Phase and have some intern run it as a means of damage control whenever Taylor does something to make the organization look bad.

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Whoa yes please let this happen. Let the paranoid damaged girl who knows those around her are out to fuck her find out they made a account for her and are sock puppeting it for their benefit. Please give the youth guard reason to kick Boston in the balls and maybe even get in front of a judge for defacto ID theft.

 

[KingCrimson1081]

Whoa yes please let this happen. Let the paranoid damaged girl who knows those around her are out to fuck her find out they made a account for her and are sock puppeting it for their benefit. Please give the youth guard reason to kick Boston in the balls and maybe even get in front of a judge for defacto ID theft.

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They probably have something in the contract covering such acts, and besides its only identity theft if it was her actual civilian ID she is a parahuman after all. Plus it wouldn't be sock puppeting for their benefit they will just be providing additional context for some of the things Phase says in front of the public just to make sure there are no unfortunate misunderstandings.

 

[BF110C4]

They probably have something in the contract covering such acts, and besides its only identity theft if it was her actual civilian ID she is a parahuman after all. Plus it wouldn't be sock puppeting for their benefit they will just be providing additional context for some of the things Phase says in front of the public just to make sure there are no unfortunate misunderstandings.

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I remember the time Spacebattles did that with a Mod called Athena after they fired her in order to whitewash the action. The scandal when the person in question openly disclosed that the rest of the Administrators took control of her online persona for a single message almost destroyed the entire site.

Now imagine the scandal of Phase discovering this and walking to the nearest newspaper angrily accusing the PRT of making false statements to the media in her name.

 

[KingCrimson1081]

I remember the time Spacebattles did that with a Mod called Athena after they fired her in order to whitewash the action. The scandal when the person in question openly disclosed that the rest of the Administrators took control of her online persona for a single message almost destroyed the entire site.

Now imagine the scandal of Phase discovering this and walking to the nearest newspaper angrily accusing the PRT of making false statements to the media in her name.

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Well the main difference between those two scenarios would be that the PRT or Protectorate don't actually run PHO so it would be less the fault of the PHO moderators if it happened, and as I said before there might be a note in Taylor's contract saying they can do what they did. While it won't stop Taylor from going to the media to expose them it limits the repercussions.

 

[Nikas_Zekeval]

Well the main difference between those two scenarios would be that the PRT or Protectorate don't actually run PHO so it would be less the fault of the PHO moderators if it happened, and as I said before there might be a note in Taylor's contract saying they can do what they did. While it won't stop Taylor from going to the media to expose them it limits the repercussions.

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Which will be worse for any online presence of a Ward. People already factored in being part of the program might shade what they could talk about. It coming out the PRT can make posts in a Ward's name against their wishes? "So, was this the real Ward, or a PR hack in cosplay?"

Not to mention, well I think the Youth Guard would get out the extra heavy weasel stomping boots for the PRT presenting their statements as coming from a Ward against her wishes. That is the Ward's reputation at risk, and using them so blatantly would probably piss them off to no end.

 

[KingCrimson1081]

Which will be worse for any online presence of a Ward. People already factored in being part of the program might shade what they could talk about. It coming out the PRT can make posts in a Ward's name against their wishes? "So, was this the real Ward, or a PR hack in cosplay?"

Not to mention, well I think the Youth Guard would get out the extra heavy weasel stomping boots for the PRT presenting their statements as coming from a Ward against her wishes. That is the Ward's reputation at risk, and using them so blatantly would probably piss them off to no end.

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Well the other option is to just swarm any official account Taylor gets with approved 'fact checkers' in order to discredit her or have one of the other Wards provide 'context' to whatever she says.

 

[Blade4]

They probably have something in the contract covering such acts, and besides its only identity theft if it was her actual civilian ID she is a parahuman after all. Plus it wouldn't be sock puppeting for their benefit they will just be providing additional context for some of the things Phase says in front of the public just to make sure there are no unfortunate misunderstandings.

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Others already commented but yeah it is still a form of ID theft. "Phase" is supposed to be Taylor's legal cape ID as handed to her by the government until/unless she rebrands after power testing. She may not want it but it it is hers. Hence the big issues if the prt can legally unmask her as "Ghost". She is not a probationary ward either so they cant use that as a excuse. Its expected she would make a official account eventually but she does not have to as far as i know. Just creating a bare bones "Phase" account that is governmentally recognized as her official account could be considered part of her starting package but someone using it pretending to be her and putting words in her mouth when she does not even know she has a account or access to it? That is or should be straight up illegal. Made worse by the fact the words they are spouting are helping to cover up crimes against her or at least toe party lines when she hates said party for legit reason.

It would functionally be like me making a facebook account of you with your picture and address then start doing fucked up things like hating on gays or supporting nazis or ku klux klan. I would assume you would get very fucking pissed off at me for doing that right?