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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

The He-Man one was pretty long. I'm also writing one now.

Fair enough. And I actually did like that one despite being only familiar with the new She-ra cartoon. It was satisfying to get an arc complete to itself instead of the dips we normally get. Generally only Red and Peter Wynne have gotten any sort of focus on that level.
 
Regnancy (part 19)
30th October 2012
21:45 GMT +3


"…butcher my mind to make me his compliant slave!"

Persephone is clearly incensed, and has naturally decided that I've sided with Hades and regard her as a problem to be beaten into compliance. We're in the palace for this, and I can see the pear trees outside of the window stretching up to provide their goddess with weaponry. Not the grass or flowers though, because her domain is far narrower than that.

I should probably let her get her rant out of her system before interjecting.

But they're not even in the same room.

"Have you no shame?!"

"No."

Darn it. I see Zagreus wince behind her. I'm not completely sure what sort of societal norms he complies with, but there aren't many societies where having a complete mental breakdown in front of a stranger is encouraged. Thing is… With everything that's happened, a raging… Minor goddess just isn't that big a deal any more.

The next stage will be threats, and I shouldn't point out that they're empty.

"You are the lowest form of mortal life. Were there any justice in this world you would suffer in Tartarus as you so richly deserve, your genitals devoured daily by blunt-beaked ravens. What land do you come from that trains its people in such callousness?"

I wait for a-.

"Answer me!"

"I am a citizen of Themyscira."

And that's an end to the threat, because Themyscira's plant life is blessed by Demeter and the locals haven't broken the covenant. She can't do a thing to Britain because… Because it's outside of her bulwark anyway, and though the quantity has crept up after the Sheeda Harrowing and the disappearance of huge areas of South American farmland, it still doesn't do much of its own farming. And she can't do anything to my original homeworld because even if there was a portal back there, a magic life form like her couldn't exist there.

"But if it helps, I've revised my original plan significantly."

"No!"

Don't. Sound. Smug.

"And if this one last attempt at rapprochement doesn't work I will happily argue in favour of a divorce to Hephaestaean."

"You want to carve my brain out of my skull!"

"No, that was the original version of the plan that I came up with in two minutes because people expect me to be able to solve a problem that's been simmering away for thousands of years in a couple of days. After I talked to Hecate, I found out that her coven can remove classes of memory temporarily, and return them to their owner at a later time."

"And you think that is better."

Don't say 'yes, obviously'.

"As I understand it, the reason why your relationship with Hades is in such a state is Zeus. If he'd talked things through with you and your mother, or just told Hades to try wooing you himself, things might be very different. On the other hand, if you couldn't stand him anyway, then it was never going to happen and he needs to get his head around that."

"So I am still your slave."

Don't say, 'no, you're still an immortal goddess-queen with a lifestyle that would be envied around the world', true as it would be.

"So you came to me to ask me to persuade Hephaestaean to give you a divorce. This is what you would have to do in order to get my cooperation. If you don't want my help, feel free to return to your forest." I shrug. "Up to you. Now if you'll please excuse me, I also need to persuade Lord Hades to go through with this."

I turn.

"What do you mean?"

"I haven't talked to him about this yet. The whole point is to either prove to you that the relationship could work, or to prove to him that it can't. If the latter is true, he might well grant you a divorce without bothering Hephaestaean. Which would be better for everyone. But to be fair, we'd be locking his memories too."

I take a breath.

"There's no need to make a quick decision about this. Take as much time to think about it as you want."

I walk away, heading through the receiving room door, down the corridor and out onto a balcony overlooking part of the garden. Lords Hades-. I wince inwardly at how hopeful he looks. Macaria looks less so.

"So I've got a plan."

"Yes?"

"And Queen Persephone hasn't agreed to it yet, but I want you both to have time to feed back with any problems you can see or any reassurances you want."

"Zeus no longer sits upon Olympus. I believe that you have proven that your plans can have merit."

"So you know that Zeus is the reason why your relationship with Persephone fell at the first hurdle, that if you'd taken the time to woo her you both hopefully wouldn't be where you are now."

"Yes."

"I've been talking to Hecate, and we're pretty sure that we can… Temporarily, remove some of your memories. Effectively… Making it as if your relationship to date hadn't happened for as long as the spell is in effect."

"So that I could begin our relationship again properly."

"Maybe. Because she's not keen, and the only way I think she's going to agree to this, is if it doesn't work, you grant her a divorce."

"But it will-. What-. In this wager, what qualifies as a success?"

"You'd be trying to woo her original self. If she rejects you, even without all of the fear she felt when you… Collected, her. Then that's a failure."

"And she would leave."

"And you would agree to a divorce, and trouble her no more."

"And what is a success?"

"If you build up a sufficiently positive relationship that it causes her to view your current relationship in a new light when your memories are restored."

"Is there any risk?"

"You might have to divorce your wife, whom you love, and avoid her evermore."

"Is there any risk from the magic?"

"Not so far as we can determine."

"Then I will do it. The opportunity to finally make things right with Persephone is more than I can pass up."

I smile. "Glad to hear it. I'll go and see if she's decided yet."
 
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butcher my mind to make me his compliant slave!"

Yeah, this sounds about right to what I was expecting Persephone to say.

"You are the lowest form of mortal life. Were there any justice in this world you would suffer in Tartarus as you so richly deserve, your genitals devoured daily my blunt-beaked ravens. What land do you come from that trains its people in such callousness

England.

I wait for a-.

"Answer me!"

"I am a citizen of Themyscira

But you were born and raised in England.

believe that your have proven that your plans can have merit."

"you have"
 
Thankfully, they are gods and not telepaths... cause Persephone reading Paul's mind would have been awkward. Now, I know that I was one of the first to say that Paul would have gone through the "memory erasing" tactic. But I just thought... did Paul request help to the Goddess of marriage & divorce Hera? Or is it going to be afterwards, as couple counseling when / if they try to mend the relationship.
 
I feel bad for both Hades and Persephone. I hope this works out in the end so both gods can have some semblance of a happy ending.

Honestly any outcome other than back at status quo would be better for both of them in the long term.

That said I've found it fascinating how much the situation bothers me. Persephone is a victim but her never telling Hades makes her bear a responsibility too but her fear of doing so was correct for her time and local but Hades never would have deliberately raped her but it doesn't change how she felt about it but... Aaarg!

Actually... Best outcome would be Hades realizing that he's in love with someone that Persephone either isn't anymore or never was, just like she hates a guy that he wasn't or hasn't been for millenniums. Sad, but healthier.
 
Gotta say, I love the idea of her starting to like Hades, and Hades not being as interested anymore. That'd be amusing. They get the divorce, and it ends with unhappiness on both sides.

"No, that was the original version of the plan that I can up with in two minutes because people expect me to be able to solve a problem that's been simmering away for thousands of years in a couple of days.
came?

And that just made me burst out laughing. In my home, in my bedroom, where none can see.

But that'd have been great. Hopefully she started her war with the House of Windsor, and gave up soon after.
 
30th October 2012
21:45 GMT +3


"…butcher my mind to make me his compliant slave!"

Persephone is clearly incensed, and has naturally decided that I've sided with Hades and regard her as a problem to be beaten into compliance. We're in the palace for this, and I can see the pear trees outside of the window stretching up to provide their goddess with weaponry. Not the grass or flowers though, because her domain is far narrower than that.
Indeed, it seems she has quite definite objections to the 'memory-erasure' plan, then. But, that was the first draft of a possible resolution, of course. No doubt OL's hammered things into a workable plan by now.

I should probably let her get her rant out of her system before interjecting.

But they're not even in the same room.
Honestly, I doubt her and Hades being in any proximity would be a good idea right now. She might well decide 'screw it, in for an Obol, in for a Talent.' and attack him outright.

"Have you no shame?!"

"No."
:rolleyes: ...Sadly true. On the other hand, him admitting it might well soften her anger a little through surprise.

Darn it. I see Zagreus wince behind her. I'm not completely sure what sort of societal norms he complies with, but there aren't many societies where having a complete mental break down in front of a stranger is encouraged. Thing is… With everything that's happened, a raging… Minor goddess just isn't that big a deal any more.

The next stage will be threats, and I shouldn't point out that they're empty.
And seeing his mother in this state probably isn't doing wonders for his emotional state either...

"You are the lowest form of mortal life. Were there any justice in this world you would suffer in Tartarus as you so richly deserve, your genitals devoured daily my blunt-beaked ravens. What land do you come from that trains its people in such callousness?"

I wait for a-.
Ah, the antici-...

"Answer me!"

"I am a citizen of Themyscira."
...-pation! And a good answer. While she might have been able to do some damage to England if you'd said that, Themyscira is protected by her seniors.

And that's an end to the threat, because Themyscira's plant life is blessed by Demeter and the locals haven't broken the covenant. She can't do a thing to Britain because… Because it's outside of her bulwark anyway, and though the quantity has crept up after the Sheeda Harrowing and the disappearance of huge areas of South American farmland it still doesn't do much of its own farming. And she can't do anything to my original homeworld because even if there was a portal back there, a magic life form like her couldn't exist there.
And neatly summarised. It does just go a little way to explain her feelings of powerlessness, too.

"But if it helps, I've revised my original plan significantly."

"No!"
Sadly, he doesn't take 'no' for an answer in this kind of thing. Not until you're properly informed, anyway.

Don't. Sound. Smug.

"And if this one last attempt at rapprochement doesn't work I will happily argue in favour of a divorce to Hephaestaean."
...I'm guessing Hera's already said she's not getting anywhere near this big ball of Trouble.

"You want to carve my brain out of my skull!"

"No, that was the original version of the plan that I can up with in two minutes because people expect me to be able to solve a problem that's been simmering away for thousands of years in a couple of days. After I talked to Hecate, I found out that her coven can remove classes of memory temporarily, and return them to their owner at a later time."
Well, if you weren't so good at doing it that quickly, maybe people wouldn't expect overnight miracles from you. :p

"And you think that is better."

Don't say 'yes, obviously'.
Not unless you want a peach-tree branch somewhere intimate. :oops:

"As I understand it, the reason why your relationship with Hades is in such a state is Zeus. If he'd talked things through with you and your mother, or just told Hades to try wooing you himself, things might be very different. On the other hand, if you couldn't stand him anyway, then it was never going to happen and he needs to get his head around that."

"So I am still your slave."
I can't believe people keep forgetting that detail... Old Sparky has a lot to answer for. And now he's off the throne, perhaps some of that karma will be coming back on his ass.

Don't say, 'no, you're still an immortal goddess-queen with a lifestyle that would be envied around the world', true as it would be.

"So you came to me to ask me to persuade Hephaestaean to give you a divorce. This is what you would have to do in order to get my cooperation. If you don't want my help, feel free to return to your forest." I shrug. "Up to you. Now if you'll please excuse me, I also need to persuade Lords Hades to go through with this."
I expect that'll be an easier task. Definitely less yelling, certainly.

I turn.

"What do you mean?"
Well, that calmed her down something nicely. I guess she thought Hades wouldn't be taking any part in this plan...

"I haven't talked to him about this yet. The whole point is to either prove to you that the relationship could work, or to prove to him that it can't. If the latter is true, he might well grant you a divorce without bothering Hephaestaean. Which would be better for everyone. But to be fair, we'd be locking his memories too."

I take a breath.
So, sort of a dating sim 'New Game Plus' option. All their relationship data gets reset to zero, instead of the woefully lopsided love/hate position it is now...

"There's no need to make a quick decision about this. Take as much time to think about it as you want."

I walk away, heading through the receiving room door, down the corridor and out onto a balcony overlooking part of the garden. Lords Hades-. I wince inwardly at how hopeful he looks. Macaria looks less so.
I expect Persephone'll be quizzing her son about all this now. Not that Zagreus will likely have many answers.

"So I've got a plan."

"Yes?"
No Melinoë? Or is she playing the neutral party in this, as the middle child?

"And Queen Persephone hasn't agreed to it yet, but I want you both to have time to feed back with any problems you can see or any reassurances you want."

"Zeus no longer sits upon Olympus. I believe that your have proven that your plans can have merit."
Even if they don't always go smoothly. There were a few dicey moments back there.

"So you know that Zeus is the reason why your relationship with Persephone fell at the first hurdle; that if you'd taken the time to woo her you both hopefully wouldn't be where you are now."

"Yes."
The benefit of hindsight, of course.

"I've been talking to Hecate, and we're pretty sure that we can… Temporarily, remove some of your memories. Effectively… Making it as if your relationship to date hadn't happen for as long as the spell is in effect."

"So that I could begin our relationship again properly."
That's the plan, lover-boy. Just... Don't be too pushy, or come on too strong, and you should be fine... (Fingers crossed.)

"Maybe. Because she's not keen, and the only way I think she's going to agree to this, is if it doesn't work, you grant her a divorce."

"But it will-. What-. In this wager, what qualifies as a success?"
Ah, see, there's an intelligent question. What's the win condition? The failure condition?

"You'd be trying to woo her original self. If she rejects you, even without all of the fear she felt when you… Collected, her. Then that's a failure."

"And she would leave."
Yes. It may hurt to think that it could happen, but don't fool yourself into thinking this is guaranteed to go well.

"And you would agree to a divorce, and trouble her no more."

"And what is a success?"
What if... She decides later that maybe, it wasn't so bad with Hades? She's lived as she's had for thousands of years. What life would she make for herself without that central fact?

"If you build up a sufficiently positive relationship that it causes her to view your current relationship in a new light when your memories are restored."

"Is there any risk?"
Life is risk, Hades. Nothing can be perfect.

"You might have to divorce your wife, whom you love, and avoid her evermore."

"Is there any risk from the magic?"
Yeah. Is Hecate sure that it will only affect the selected memories? That it will wear off? The last thing anyone needs is a Hades back in his... o_O Would it be fair to call it 'teenage' days... just after the Titanomachy?

"Not so far as we can determine."

"Then I will do it. The opportunity to finally make things right with Persephone is more than I can pass up."

I smile. "Glad to hear it. I'll go and see if she's decided yet."
On the upside, his agreement should make her more likely to consider doing it.

And so the groundwork is laid, then. Will this succeed, when it's all said and done? That's up to Hades, I think. If he can resist playing the swaggering, callow youth with Persephone and actually treat her like a woman and not a prize (as Zeus so often seemed to with his conquests,) perhaps they'll have a shot of reconciling. At any rate, things should get quite... Interesting... once things are underway.

Making it as if your relationship to date hadn't happen for as long as the spell is in effect."

Making it as if your relationship to date hadn't happened for as long as the spell is in effect."
 
Sadly, he doesn't take 'no' for an answer in this kind of thing

Given the current situation and the previous talks about consent, this statement you just made is very disturbing.

What if... She decides later that maybe, it wasn't so bad with Hades? She's lived as she's had for thousands of years. What life would she make for herself without that central fact?

There's also the possibility that even if she does fall in love with him during the memory erasure, she may still choose to want a divorce after she regains her memories.

Yeah, if things were different then they'd may have had a better relationship, but at this point her fear and hatred of him has been going in for thousands of years, so she may not want to have anything to do with him.

Yeah. Is Hecate sure that it will only affect the selected memories? That it will wear off? The last thing anyone needs is a Hades back in his... o_O Would it be fair to call it 'teenage' days... just after the Titanomachy?

Now I'm reminded of a Grim Adventures episode where Billy's parents are reverted to being kids.

And so the groundwork is laid, then. Will this succeed, when it's all said and done? That's up to Hades, I think. If he can resist playing the swaggering, callow youth with Persephone and actually treat her like a woman and not a prize (as Zeus so often seemed to with his conquests,) perhaps they'll have a shot of reconciling. At any rate, things should get quite... Interesting... once things are underway

I doubt Hades will be swaggering.

He's far more likely to be incredibly stern.
 
To make this the most unbiased experiment, would they put Hades and Persephone in a magical dream simulator of ancient Greece or something? Or give the theoretical memory-wiped versions any context? Even knowing that their memories have been taken away seems like a big factor for characters who value their mental autonomy (which is most)- Hades might not care since he was into Persephone before, but she probably might.

If the DC versions drew from pre-Classical depictions of the gods involved, where Persephone was a much bigger deal than Hades or at least her Classical self, I wonder how things would play out.

I'd previously wondered how Indigo Paul would handle the situation, and now I wonder about what Renegade would do (Actually, what's up with the nascent Titan of technology in the Renegade timeline? Because I feel like he might just Awaken Hardware to bond with it or something. I forget if Ritchie Simpson accelerated the process somehow).

Of course, Renegade has far less attachment to the Hellenic gods, but he's also more familiar love, both being in it and the heartbreak of rejection that comes about due to fundamental miscommunications, so even if it's super unlikely, I can't help but wonder what he would do.

Did anyone ask Metis or Athena for their input? Susanoo's also explicitly introduced as a god of marriage and love in this or the previous segment, so that seems like a potential narrative hint (though now I wouldn't mind seeing him and Hera get together or something, though I believe he's already married to the maiden he rescued from Yamato-no-Orochi).

People have pointed out the probably orange light-induced myopia of Paragon regarding this, but remembering his reactions both to Diana's case recently (Hippolyta's too) and Koriand'rs much more amicable potential arranged marriage situation earlier on, really hammers that point home.
 
So. Is Eris going to cock this up with some sort of aphrodisiac in their food?
Persephone: "Yes we're still getting divorced, but I am likely with child again."
Hades: "How…? How do Aphrodite's manipulations reach so far?"

Alternatively we might get to see Persephone hit on her own son!
 
This version of Hades is a real stand up guy.
Eh, Zoat!Hades has his high points, though they can be counted on one hand, what with the baseline of JusticeLeague!Hades that Zoat started from.

Still nowhere near as pleasant as SupergiantGames!Hades, and with a less impressive beard to boot.

Mr Zoat , does Zoat!Hades even have a beard? I can't recall any recent mentions of Hades current appearance.
 
I'm now picturing 'teenaged' hades riding up in a chariot decorated with flowers and serenading her with a cheesy love-song.

"Hey man, her laughing in your face wasn't the worst first impression you could have made."
Its better than her being terrified, right?
 
I just thought of a third way this could fail. With both Hades and Persephone without their memories, but everyone around them knowing that they should be together, they start seeing a disconnect between their memories and reality. And they start becoming paranoid about a grand conspiracy against them.

Dammit, they're both gods, making an avatar that has limited memories and living as civilians somewhere for a couple years would have been much simpler. Death of the Endless does that as a vacation every year or so.
 

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