1. Due to issues with external spam filters, QQ is currently unable to send any mail to Microsoft E-mail addresses. This includes any account at live.com, hotmail.com or msn.com. Signing up to the forum with one of these addresses will result in your verification E-mail never arriving. For best results, please use a different E-mail provider for your QQ address.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. For prospective new members, a word of warning: don't use common names like Dennis, Simon, or Kenny if you decide to create an account. Spammers have used them all before you and gotten those names flagged in the anti-spam databases. Your account registration will be rejected because of it.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Since it has happened MULTIPLE times now, I want to be very clear about this. You do not get to abandon an account and create a new one. You do not get to pass an account to someone else and create a new one. If you do so anyway, you will be banned for creating sockpuppets.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. If you wish to change your username, please ask via conversation to tehelgee instead of asking via my profile. I'd like to not clutter it up with such requests.
    Dismiss Notice
  5. Due to the actions of particularly persistent spammers and trolls, we will be banning disposable email addresses from today onward.
    Dismiss Notice
  6. A note about the current Ukraine situation: Discussion of it is still prohibited as per Rule 8
    Dismiss Notice
  7. The rules regarding NSFW links have been updated. See here for details.
    Dismiss Notice
  8. The testbed for the QQ XF2 transition is now publicly available. Please see more information here.
    Dismiss Notice

With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Discussion in 'Creative Writing' started by Mr Zoat, Jan 27, 2019.

Loading...
  1. CTrees

    CTrees Chasing the ring

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2018
    Messages:
    244
    Likes Received:
    1,186
    It loses containment
     
  2. Chojin Patriarch

    Chojin Patriarch Veteran Lurker

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2019
    Messages:
    2,150
    Likes Received:
    33,444
    Great, it has ranged and melee options for its power? Talk about over-engineered. Although, given the fight they've been giving it, that's understandable. Let's hope this isn't an underpowered prototype, though...

    Ah, right. Just because his Rings are drained, doesn't mean he's unarmed or helpless. Good thing he tweaked his armour recently...

    ...Be glad it only went that far. Losing your hands would be a bit of a setback, especially without Rings handy..

    Cheeky bugger, stealing ideas from the T'Au? A damn good idea, those are nasty.

    Ooh, nice. Target blocks so many attacks a round? Throw more attacks at it than it can handle.

    Probably the most damage it's taken in the whole affair, all up. Bet it's evaluating it's cost/benefit ratio now.

    ...What even. Still, looks like it decided retreat was preferable to destruction. Play that victory music!

    Right, good idea. If he wasn't here fighting then he's somewhere hurting.

    Because the robot sure will, know what I mean? Didn't quite disarm it, but not for lack of trying. :p

    Yeah, no point healing something if it heals crooked... Especially for something like a rib.

    Ah, Potions. good for what ails you.

    I can't imagine that was easy, focusing that intently while injured. Green Rings not having the kind of autopilot-level of AI functionality that Orange does.

    Let's hope it decides to fuck about somewhere else, then.

    Be very glad neither of you were viable targets for that trick.

    Given how nasty it is, would you want to?

    Well done, Guy. We'll make a Green Light Shaman of you yet!

    Yeah, let's not tell the girlfriend how close you came to dying, huh?

    Nice of him to ask.

    Yeah, let's not trip too many death flags, Guy. At least you're not anywhere close to retiring.

    Pushing through the pain by sheer force of will, huh?

    Probably something to do with the shape of your soul. To adapt an analogy I used a few days back: Your soul doesn't have the standard ports and driver protocols everyone else does, so the Anti-Life is struggling to find adapters for them. :p

    Let's not get too carried away, here.

    So, in much the same shape as anyone without a helmet.

    At least he seems to be feeling helpful?

    Well, it's a small world. Looks like 'Reverend' Bruno's had his fingers in a few different pies...

    ...Probably not on-screen, that's hardly exciting reading. :p

    So, Norway saved, for now. Finality Man given a surprising amount of damage. And a useful source of information acquired. Not a bad use of a few minutes. Now to see what they can learn from this fellow, and how trustworthy it is given his somewhat zonked state. With any luck, they might get a lead on big bad Bruno's location...


    Extraneous Line Break. Or missing one, possibly.
     
  3. Old Knife

    Old Knife Not too sore, are you?

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2016
    Messages:
    430
    Likes Received:
    1,694
    Wrong lantern. He looks down on Jordan. He actually respects Guy.
     
    Vorian, Bramble Thorn, Jaron and 10 others like this.
  4. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2016
    Messages:
    14,700
    Likes Received:
    729,318
    Thank you, corrected.
     
  5. Rafin

    Rafin Not too sore, are you?

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2016
    Messages:
    353
    Likes Received:
    1,061
    I think the point is more that Guy is the type to enjoy rubbing it in. You know, playfully.
     
  6. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2019
    Messages:
    22,136
    Likes Received:
    320,310
    And even if Jordan had saved him, Paul may be happy that he's improving his technique so much.

    True.
     
    Vorian likes this.
  7. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2019
    Messages:
    22,136
    Likes Received:
    320,310
    His fingers are basically everywhere.
     
    Chojin Patriarch likes this.
  8. Coda

    Coda Versed in the lewd.

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2019
    Messages:
    1,079
    Likes Received:
    4,181
    Are you kidding? Finally getting good enough to do something that impressive? Paul is surely proud of him -- he's the type that's happy to get surpassed if it means someone else is helping to further his objectives.
     
  9. Windona

    Windona Beetle Queen of Crackshipping

    Joined:
    May 9, 2022
    Messages:
    330
    Likes Received:
    1,103
    Ooo, willpower to counter antilife. Good call. I do like Guy. And it seems Nora is doing alright, given the circumstances.

    Ah, more information is always good.
     
  10. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2016
    Messages:
    14,700
    Likes Received:
    729,318
    Nora Fries is probably still in cryogenic suspension somewhere.
     
  11. Windona

    Windona Beetle Queen of Crackshipping

    Joined:
    May 9, 2022
    Messages:
    330
    Likes Received:
    1,103
    Ah, sorry. Hazard of posting via phone.

    I meant Tora.
     
    Cuchulin and Ardy like this.
  12. Ngamer11

    Ngamer11 Experienced.

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2019
    Messages:
    2,861
    Likes Received:
    17,211
    Paul noted that Mr. Freeze doesn't have a tragic backstory in this universe, so I assumed there is no Nora Fries.
     
  13. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2016
    Messages:
    14,700
    Likes Received:
    729,318
    Well. Guess I was wrong, then. Or it could be completely unrelated.
     
  14. Threadmarks: Brim Stoned (part 3)
    Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2016
    Messages:
    14,700
    Likes Received:
    729,318
    30th October 1998
    17:57 GMT -7


    I shake my head. "I don't agree with that at all."

    The young woman opposite me glares. "But it is the original sin. How can you know of it and yet not believe that it is a sin?"

    "Alright." I lean back slightly. "Was Adam and Eve's nudity in the Garden of Eden sinful?"

    "No, because they had no concept of shame or lust."

    "Did they have a concept of property?"

    She thinks for a moment. "No."

    "Vice in general?"

    "No, that came when they ate the apple."

    "So when they ate the apple, as they put the apple in their mouths, they had no concept of theft, deceit or guilt. They had no concept that the serpent could have anything other than honest intentions. They were, in effect, children. Mentally speaking. It wasn't until after they ate the apple that they gained that capacity: to lie, to feel lust or shame or anything else. Before they were innocent, afterwards they weren't. But if you're innocent, you can't sin. It would be like a… A parrot, flying through a nuclear silo and pecking the launch button. It's got no idea what could happen as a result, it just thinks 'shiny, peck'. Would you assign moral blame to the parrot?"

    "Adam and Eve were not birds. They were people."

    "They were pre-apple people. Mental children with no concept of… Anything they weren't built with. It's not until after they ate the apple that they became capable of moral understanding, became… Adults, in anything other than the biological sense. The apple gave them knowledge of good and evil. How can they have done evil before they gained the capacity to understand good or evil?"

    She blinks, though she doesn't immediately refuse my supposition.

    "That said, I regard eating the apple as the correct thing to do. Who wants to remain a child forever?"

    "A child. And they are not wrong to want to be children."

    "Children are children rather than gnomes because they go on to become adults, with all that that entails. Adults, we children of the apple, have a more full understanding of the world-. And that's something else. If God created all animals, that included the serpent. If God is all-knowing, then God knew what would happen, and if God is all-powerful, then God could have prevented it. God chose not to, and despite the fact that he was dealing with simpletons acted like the blame lay with them."

    That… Appears to meet with favour. For some reason.

    "Of course, that doesn't negate human agency, we simply have to recognise that we're acting with finite knowledge and sometimes the consequences of our actions aren't quite what we intended."

    "I suppose that you have a point. Then what justifies sending someone to Hell, if God sets up everyone to fail?"

    "Nothing." She blinks. "There is no reason to send anyone to Hell ever. Eternal punishment is pure sadism. And if some depictions of God are accurate, pure narcissism."

    "There are people who deserve it."

    "No. There are people who deserve a great deal of punishment, but if death isn't the end and the soul is eternal… What's the benefit to it? Once they're dead, they can't harm anyone else, so there's no argument for protecting anyone else. After a hundred years of suffering…" I shake my head. "Anyone's going to agree to anything. They're not going to learn anything from that. Heck, they probably wouldn't even know why they're in Hell. And even if they learn why they're there and reform, they can't get out."

    "Reform?"

    "Sure, because this whole thing is premised on there being an all-knowing God. That rather than being limited to trying to know one another's mind by observing behaviour like humans do, there's a being who can just know. It-."

    Across the student bar, I see Detective Stone walk in. He looks agitated.

    "And on an unrelated note, did you know that Hell is far less radioactive than Earth?"

    Gwendolyn DuBare, my drinking companion, frowns. "What?"

    "Less radioactive. So someone who escaped from there would have less radiological material in them than someone who grew up in this-" I feel the wave of heat pass over me as the air around her hands shimmers. "-nuclear age. Now, I'm not here to hurt you. I'm here to help. He, on-"

    I stand, interposing myself between her and Stone as he strides in our direction.

    "-the other hand, isn't here to help."

    Stone recognises me, his expression… Stony. He's not drawing his gun, so it looks like he'd learned from our last encounter.

    "Step aside and let me do my job."

    "Detective, I know good and evil and the difference between them. I will not voluntarily send anyone to eternal punishment, as that would be an evil deed. Her or you."

    I still don't know why the Detective went to Hell. I mean, I could guess any number of things that the NYPD wouldn't put in their databases, but none of that really chimes with his excellent record.

    Gwendolyn's on her feet, and she's moving to get a clear shot-.

    I raise my right hand to motion her to get back. "Please, let me handle this."

    "He's here to send me back?"

    "If I don't, they'll just send someone else."

    He's right. The sort of person who would create Hell isn't going to care about its residents. One or another, no one wants to be there and I doubt it takes long for every single one to get to the point where they'll agree to anything to get out. And I can only protect one person, and I picked up dozens of others in the Los Angeles area alone.

    "And someone's checking up on you?" He nods. "Detective, you're a descendant of people who ate the apple of Eden. You are a moral agent in your own right, not just a.. weapon for whatever demon sent you here."

    "They're not exactly sending me after good people."

    "Every one of those bastard rapists deserved it!"

    It only lasts a moment, but Stone cringes as she says 'rapist'. Okay, he's emoting, but what can I-?

    "Ah. I have it. Detective, during your career with the New York Police Department, did you ever have a case where FBI agents started arguing with you over who had jurisdiction?"

    He cautiously nods.

    "But outside of immediate concerns, sorting that sort of thing out wasn't your job, right? That's for your Captain or the Police Commissioner or the Mayor. Right?"

    Another nod.

    "There's been an escape, Detective Stone. And the reason why you're here on a release scheme on your own rather than something else is that the demon who sent you wants to keep things quiet. They fucked up, didn't they?"

    Another nod. "Probably."

    "But knowing that doesn't help if you can't notify someone in internal affairs. Because despite their misdeeds, you can't get any leverage."

    I reach into my pocket and take out today's apple. I was planning on giving it to Gwendolyn, but magic aside psilocybin mushrooms work nearly as well.

    "Good. And evil. And the difference between them. Take it and offer it to the demon when they turn up to complain. And if they're still annoyed, give them my number, and I'll put them through to my sponsor."
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2022
  15. DarkBlackJack

    DarkBlackJack What is motivation and why is it keep decreasing

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2017
    Messages:
    256
    Likes Received:
    2,985
    Wait, what sponsor?
     
  16. thebishop8

    thebishop8 Umm, ackchyually...

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2019
    Messages:
    360
    Likes Received:
    2,257
    I'm guessing it's going to be the explanation to how he's not worried about ring charge.
     
  17. Blackshard

    Blackshard ~

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2016
    Messages:
    2,311
    Likes Received:
    4,439
    He's not talking in orange quotes, so it's not best snek. Presumably this universe has some other Avarice-aligned entity that can approximately fill the role.
     
  18. Enochi

    Enochi Having way to much fun with AI.

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2016
    Messages:
    644
    Likes Received:
    3,534
    Ah stawman argument been awhile.
     
  19. Handlewithcare

    Handlewithcare Versed in the lewd.

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2019
    Messages:
    1,289
    Likes Received:
    12,979
    If he gets apples I'd say someone with access to Eden, so an angel?

    Don't know the show though

    As for the philosophical aspect: yeah. Hell makes no sense. If it AND an omnipotent God exist he/she/it REALLY isn't worthy of worship.
     
  20. Vaermina

    Vaermina Well worn.

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2015
    Messages:
    5,523
    Likes Received:
    20,982
    I kind of feel like "what's the point" here?

    Like, maybe if this was something like Dresden Files it could be interesting.

    But this side-story is literally just "Zoat invents uber entity and has his SI give holier then thou speeches".
     
    KenNM, Khornelius, kagekami42 and 5 others like this.
  21. King of Frost

    King of Frost Wishing I was somewhere colder no doubt.

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2016
    Messages:
    151
    Likes Received:
    1,298
    The orange quotes indicate that Paragon OL is avarice enlightened. Which while yes was caused by OL and the Ophidian meeting, it only really happened because Paragon OL was merged with her. If the Ophidian exists in this universe it doesn't mean the same exact events are going to play out when this version of him meets her.

    Assuming that it is her, which it very well could not be. We don't really have enough information right now to know.
     
  22. PepeTheFrog

    PepeTheFrog Not too sore, are you?

    Joined:
    May 8, 2021
    Messages:
    365
    Likes Received:
    4,854
    He's working for John Glover isn't he.
     
  23. LordofTentacle

    LordofTentacle Know what you're doing yet?

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2019
    Messages:
    102
    Likes Received:
    1,241
    I really don't read any of these side stories because it's always the same thing, Paul is in world, Paul discovers the shtick of the world, Paul gets in then out of trouble through the power of well worded and probably rehersed speeches on morality or something, rinse and repeat.
     
    KenNM, Windona, kagekami42 and 5 others like this.
  24. Chojin Patriarch

    Chojin Patriarch Veteran Lurker

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2019
    Messages:
    2,150
    Likes Received:
    33,444
    Ah, a return to the universe of, as the episode title suggests, Brimstone. A reminder: 'Satan' sends a disgraced NYPD Detective out of Hell to hunt down escapees, for... Reasons. And no doubt this Paul has been investigating those reasons.

    Yes, yes, all that came with the Apple, of course. :rolleyes:

    To be fair, what was there to own? Did they build shelter? Use tools?

    So, is Paul-adin here talking to an escapee? For what reason?

    ...In effect, the Apple made them people, with their own reasoning and morality, instead of smart animals.

    ...An interesting take on it. The Garden as the innocence of childhood, eating the Apple as puberty, and being cast out as adulthood?

    After all, don't children want to grow up, and gain all the privileges of adulthood? Even if they aren't aware or interested in the responsibilities...

    Ah, the old 'If God is all-powerful, then why does Evil exist?' saw. Usually answered by 'He clearly has a plan' rebuke. And then the arguments follow... An sometimes punches.

    And therein lies the great Game of Heaven and Hell. We're given a loose reading of the Rules, and told to play by them or be Punished. But we aren't told all the rules, so the Players gain amusement in our fumbling...

    He does like to surround himself by the pious and the faithful...

    "What use is Hell, if those imprisoned cannot dream of freedom?" Indeed.

    Oooh, his companion seems upset at the idea of redemption. There's a story there.

    ...Interesting fact. Then again, the modern world is more radioactive than before the Atomic Age... All those test detonations, you know.

    Ah. She's one of the escapees. As if I remember right, one of the nicer ones, who didn't really deserve to be sent back.<Sees Mr Zoat's reply> :confused: Or maybe not...

    Ah, good cop and bad cop. Or perhaps Paladin and Blackguard?

    Heh, not looking to waste his day's allotment of ammunition, eh? I suppose killing an escapee without a bullet is a bit messier...

    Sadly, unless he wants to tell you, it wouldn't be easy to find out. Especially in an age that still puts most records on paper.

    After all, she isn't bulletproof.

    Which rather makes you disposable. Has that sunk in, Detective?

    And despite their 'name', I doubt the top man would be in charge of him.

    ...And in a single line, we can understand her backstory in full. Sadly, that's canon to the show, I think...

    Ah, he's feeling sympathy over his own sin, and the cause for it.

    Ah, angling to get at the fellow in charge of Zeke, eh?

    Ooh, there's an interesting interpretation of the series' setup. Now I wonder if anyone higher up in Hell is even aware of this going on?

    Zeke doesn't really have a way to call up his handler, does he? Or is it a case of 'He shows up when he wants to.'

    Ah, my guess of Paladin is more accurate than I thought. Wonder who he's working for from Upstairs?

    Well, that was an interesting little discussion. I have the feeling the series' canon storyline is about to get radically derailed thanks to one big, orange butterfly. And likely to lead into something of an amusing buddy-cop show rivalry with the two of them chasing up escapees and offering them the choice between a bullet and an apple...



    "No, because they had no concept of shame or lust."
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2022
  25. Vaermina

    Vaermina Well worn.

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2015
    Messages:
    5,523
    Likes Received:
    20,982
    I mean... I would argue about the well worded part... :D

    But otherwise spot on... :)
     
  26. m_d

    m_d Fascinated by storytelling

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2014
    Messages:
    155
    Likes Received:
    421
    Oooh, looks interesting. Curious to see where this is going.

    Something appears to be missing; probably near 'simpletons'.
     
  27. FeepingCreature

    FeepingCreature Not too sore, are you?

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2017
    Messages:
    422
    Likes Received:
    2,951
    I read them all, for the same reason. It's a comfort food.
     
  28. Ciber

    Ciber Know what you're doing yet?

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2020
    Messages:
    101
    Likes Received:
    677
    Orange obviously made a deal with the head honcho. Who else to supply Apples than the snake who made that initial offering.
     
  29. Rafin

    Rafin Not too sore, are you?

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2016
    Messages:
    353
    Likes Received:
    1,061
    I wish it was a strawman. But I've seen too many people argue along lines even dumber than what this Paul tries to refute. And I hadn't read this particular angle of argument before (i.e. "Good and Evil" including the "disobedience/theft/lying is wrong and deserves death and abandonment" knowledge).
     
  30. RichardWhereat

    RichardWhereat Aia airëa Fëanáro.

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2016
    Messages:
    2,842
    Likes Received:
    15,034
    A straw man argument is when you are rebuting something a person did not say, to misrepresent their argument, and presumably to make it easier for you to argue.

    Here he is refuting their points. Not a straw man.
     
Loading...