With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Ngamer11]

Reread the newest story part and found an error.

Comic Sinestro has two very distinct phases. The early 'I-just-love-being-evil', exists purely to dick around with Jordan phase, and the later Sinestro Corps Order Through Fear stage. So when I checked the record and found out that he had spend a significant amount of time fighting Jordan at a relatively early point in Jordan's career, I… I thought I'd dodged a bullet. Because there's no obvious way for the first version to morph into the later one. He's effectively a new character. I mean, the second one was more of a threat so I kept an eye out, and eye that has now seen everything that I need to know that I'm definitely dealing with Sinestwo now.

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That should say 'spent'.

 

[ForeverShogo]

Fucking with Batman's head and ruining a relationship with an ally vs just biting the goddamn bullet and accepting aid from Sinestro or someone Sinestro adjacent.

Naturally, he picks the stupid option. For all that he's supposed to be in a rush, he sure does love making this needlessly complicated. I certainly don't see how this isn't a bigger act of desperation than the Sinestro option.

 

[BR549]

The issue is that the person I intended to give it to have.. some sort of personal revelation in my absence

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Think 'had' is what works here.

Fucking with Batman's head and ruining a relationship with an ally vs just biting the goddamn bullet and accepting aid from Sinestro or someone Sinestro adjacent.

Naturally, he picks the stupid option. For all that he's supposed to be in a rush, he sure does love making this needlessly complicated. I certainly don't see how this isn't a bigger act of desperation than the Sinestro option.

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Remember that Paul here does not think like a normal human anymore and has not for some time.

He tries to think human-like, but he's steeped in orange so he assesses value, basically, when getting what he wants.

Getting Fear Batman Now alienates Batman, possibly permamently, and might wind up with him getting kicked off Earth for a time. But he gets what he wants now, and with minimal risk to the planet itself - he can cure Bruce and then bugger off for a few decades cleaning uo the universe.

Inviting Sinestro to Earth? That trades 'extistential memetic threat' for "world-conquering threat who may decide if he can't have the planet no-one can" - especially since it almost certainly will end with Sinestro learning that Earth is the home of the Life Entity. Which ends with a likely best possible result of Sinestro declaring Earth a protectorate like Darkseid did in the Renegade timeline.

Taken strictly as a utilitarian assessment, the former is the "better" answer.

 

[iamnuff]

That was a fucked up thing to do, but the earth had been under darkseid's heel (by proxy) for literally months.

Everybody is having their minds fucked with world-wide.
Put your big-boy pants on and embrace the drugs for the next 2 or so hours.

Grow up.

 

[Vanbers]

While monumentally fucked up, and probably something that absolutely ruins their relationship, given the alternative is Darkseid eats Earth, it's not the worst possible thing.

Plus, he used the specific variant he knows how to cure, so he can undo it after. Cold comfort for the trauma and fucked-up-ness of it, but it is at least still better than Nabu just stealing bodies forever and ever.

Definitely something that'll fuck over that relationship, though.

But hey, given that Earth is in the middle of being Anti-Lifed at least he'll have plenty of people to commiserate with in regards to getting their mind fucked with. And by 'plenty of people' I mean literally everyone.

Now, given that this is a comic book, Batman will likely not get the curable thing cured afterwards for REASONS, but here's hoping.

 

[Vaermina]

I think what would more likely happen is that some heroes would prefer Paul over Batman or vice versa, leading to there being factions among the heroes. Not necessarily opposed to one another, but more willing to work with those in their faction than those in the other faction.

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What hero's would side with LePaul when it comes out that he drugged Batman with a potentially dangerous and untested mind altering drug without permission?

 

[Lord Ernest]

Well, that is indeed fucked up. I can see the thought process for prefering this to the possibility of having Sinestro involved, especially since he doesn't know the type of character that Sinestro is. But equally, how is he so certain that he knows what type of character this drugged and ring-wielding Batman is?

Consistently, people that have their brain modified or tampered with, end up prefering their new psychological state because it's what they are now, not whatever they were or will be if modified again. I don't see Batman getting "cured" or giving up the ring after this, although I don't discount the possibility.

Anyway, if the strategy does pan out, I suppose the Illustres may rationalize this as justified because the Earth will be saved, doesn't matter the bridges burnt. But I, personally, still consider it a suboptimal choice.

 

[Firewillreign]

...Paul did you just turn him into The Batman Who Laughs?

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On no please fuck no.

I hate that son of a bitch - walking plot device personified.

I think maybe Batman can forgive, but he'll sure as hell never forget.

 

[Taisei]

Plus, he used the specific variant he knows how to cure, so he can undo it after. Cold comfort for the trauma and fucked-up-ness of it, but it is at least still better than Nabu just stealing bodies forever and ever.

Now, given that this is a comic book, Batman will likely not get the curable thing cured afterwards for REASONS, but here's hoping.

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Well... considering Batman will have well founded reasons to fear Paul tampering with his mind, he's smarter than him, and is now powered by fucking fear...

Yeah, of course there's almost certainly no outcome here where he'll be alright and just let Paul into his head to reverse the damage. Like, what the fuck Paul?

Bruce might attempt to fix himself and that might work. That's the literal best outcome, everything else will essentially have killed Batman. Depends on your feelings about ego death, permanent non-consensual mental alterations, and thought experiments like the Ship of Theseus.

Damn cold of him, honestly. I think it might be the most Evil thing any version of him has ever done, except for the Demon Paul that lobotomized people with orange light.

 

[Ngamer11]

What hero's would side with LePaul when it comes out that he drugged Batman with a potentially dangerous and untested mind altering drug without permission?

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The ones who are more pragmatic, so I guess Constantine, Captain Atom, Adom, Isis, and maybe the Hawks. The ones who'll definitely be on his side are his close friends on the Team as well as those who really trust him, so Superboy, Zatanna, Artemis, and Osiris. Not sure about the rest.

 

[Duke Long]

He also… I haven't been able to establish a pattern of behaviour. When I first arrived on the Earth, I wondered which version of… Each person I met I was dealing with.

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'this Earth'?

"Yes, thank you for approving that. The issue is that the person I intended to give it to have.. some sort of personal revelation in my absence and is now struggling with it."

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'to had'?

Even in your Sector at large, since you recruited Amon Sur and killed Traitor I don't have any leading candidates."

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Was Traitor the Anti-Monitor-based armour guy?

I didn't hear him or detect him, or-. I can still see a outline inside the gymnasium.

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'an outline'

 

[Mr Zoat]

"an eye"
If I remember correctly he arrested him after he caught him trying to give those ships to pirates.

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Thank you, corrected.

I would be fine if Paul takes another extended vacation from Earth if this is what it takes to stop the Anti-Life.

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He can't really do that. Earth civilisation was tottering on the brink of collapse after the Sheeda attack, kept going mostly by people pretending really hard. That no longer works. The SI is going to need to spend months on Earth to reassemble anything after this.

...unelaborated elf gate sites indicates...

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Thank you, corrected.

I think 'had' might fit better here? Assuming he meant the chemical assistance.

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I think it's okay. He's referring to the plan as a whole.

around unelaborated elf gate

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Reread the newest story part and found an error.
That should say 'spent'.

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Think 'had' is what works here.

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Thank you, corrected.

'this Earth'?
'an outline'

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Thank you, corrected.

Was Traitor the Anti-Monitor-based armour guy?

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Yes.

 

[Organmonkey]

Fucking with Batman's head and ruining a relationship with an ally vs just biting the goddamn bullet and accepting aid from Sinestro or someone Sinestro adjacent.

Naturally, he picks the stupid option. For all that he's supposed to be in a rush, he sure does love making this needlessly complicated. I certainly don't see how this isn't a bigger act of desperation than the Sinestro option.

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This is why Graven has more friends.

 

[CTrees]

"As I said, I don't want one of your Lanterns here. Just a list of possible recruits."

"I haven't been to Earth in years." True, as far as I know. "Any list I had would be out of date by now. Even in your Sector at large, since you acquired Amon Sur and killed Traitor I don't have any leading candidates."

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Hasn't Paul poached several characters that, in the comics, would have gone on to be yellow lanterns? Just slightly surprising that Sinestro didn't suggest giving any of them that yellow ring, since that was his original intention.

We know a couple reasons Paul had against that (would take too long to get to Earth, doesn't want to bring them through the Honden, they're needed on the front lines against the reach, their mindsets have changed), but Sinestro may not. Unless what I quoted was his way of more subtly alluding to that.

 

[BartlettMagic]

I would be fine if Paul takes another extended vacation from Earth if this is what it takes to stop the Anti-Life.

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yeah i'm ready for this to conclude

 

[Chaoswind]

"It's a Canon event"

I wonder if Talia will like what her husband and future father of her unborn son has become and I wonder if it will be reversible at all, considering Damian Wayne is always guaranteed to have a fucked up relationship with his dad, Batman was starting to have a happy life and editorial/fate cannot have that.

Considering what happened with Orion, that's three semi hostile to full hostile ring users Paul has pretty much created.

Anyways this is an interesting development let's see where this goes.

 

[Shotiegun11]

Leaving aside how…stupid and outta left field drugging him right after he said not to was.

There's no way I accept Bruce is good enough, stealthy enough, or strong enough to overpower the SI. It just seems dumb.

I'm don't care for 'he's batman!' Or anything like that. He's barely used a Green Ring and NEVER used a Yellow one, and he's not actually in his right mind, though he is in a fear fulled one.

He should glow like a loon to the SI Emotional Spectrum Vision at LEAST.

Force destruction of character relations by one side is so dumb, annoying really. At least TALK the smilex plan version through with Batman and get him to agree that his possible death of personality is worth the everything still alive on Earth.

it seems like really forced drama.

edit: I also bet there's gonna be some reason Paul can't just Zap Bruce's body back to how it was before getting the Smilex. "Batman won't let me near him." "He won't take off his ring." Blah blah.

Ugh, I feel really complainy, but after so long of Mannheim and the SI just doing nothing THIS is how it's gonna end? On top of everything else?



edit 2: also. There HAS TO be ways in DC to remove memories.

Paul gets full body scan of Bruce.

Smilexs him.

Saves Earth.

Take Ring off him, factory reset body to a few hours ago, removes all smilex related memories.

"What do you mean I wielded a Yellow Ring and helped us save Earth?"

"Past you has a video saying it was worth it, feel free to tear it apart looking for any indication that it's fake. Thank you for your service."

 

[Darko]

The ones who are more pragmatic, so I guess Constantine, Captain Atom, Adom, Isis, and maybe the Hawks. The ones who'll definitely be on his side are his close friends on the Team as well as those who really trust him, so Superboy, Zatanna, Artemis, and Osiris. Not sure about the rest.

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Robin may be on the fence.

On one hand, Paul drugged his dad, so that's a massive negative.

But Robin also experienced Anti-Life up close, so if it gets rid of it then he may feel thankful.

He may still work with Paul and respect him slightly, but their friendship will probably never recover.

Hasn't Paul poached several characters that, in the comics, would have gone on to be yellow lanterns? Just slightly surprising that Sinestro didn't suggest giving any of them that yellow ring, since that was his original intention.

We know a couple reasons Paul had against that (would take too long to get to Earth, doesn't want to bring them through the Honden, they're needed on the front lines against the reach, their mindsets have changed), but Sinestro may not. Unless what I quoted was his way of more subtly alluding to that.

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Sinestro may not be aware of them.

Also, with them using an orange ring for so long, their mental states may no longer fit.

 

[Vaermina]

The ones who are more pragmatic, so I guess Constantine, Captain Atom, Adom, Isis, and maybe the Hawks. The ones who'll definitely be on his side are his close friends on the Team as well as those who really trust him, so Superboy, Zatanna, Artemis, and Osiris. Not sure about the rest.

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Pragmatic would understand the use of drugs for the effect.

But they wouldn't understand refusing to ask before using the drugs on the person.

That, is a giant betrayal of trust that would have every Hero watching their back around him.

 

[Ngamer11]

Pragmatic would understand the use of drugs for the effect.

But they wouldn't understand refusing to ask before using the drugs on the person.

That, is a giant betrayal of trust that would have every Hero watching their back around him.

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Desperate times call for desperate measures. And Paul is known for sometimes doing things without permission when things seem dire, so although drugging Batman in particular isn't something the heroes would've expected, they knew calling Paul to help stop the Anti-Life would require doing drastic things they may not personally like or approve of but have no choice but to go along with due to his previous actions.

 

[Lone Courier 6]

I kinda want this to tank his reputation with the rest of earth's Heroes , cause even for a Greater Good this is fucked up, you don't just do that to someone without consent I don't care how confident you are that you can undo it.

 

[AmericanNumbers]

So the alternative to Siniestro is the fucking Batman who Laughs?
Paragon Paul is a fucking moron.
Siniestro can be reasoned with and trusted at his word and is not nearly the universal threat the Batman who Laughs is.

And a Batman who laughs with a Yellow Power Ring.

Moron.

 

[RoninSword]

I must say I too would have called Sinestro in rather then dose Batman with some variation of Smilex. With the condition Earth is in right now, I don't see much that Sinestro could actually cause to worsen. Especially since we've seen that a spark of white light shuts down all rings responsible for it temporarily. The other heroes and lanterns (there are all those other Green Lanterns who won't be part of the white light fusion) who will be around could take him down before he manages to reboot. Then you have Sinestro in captivity and can deal with him as you please (whether that's releasing him or what is besides the point).

 

[Ardy]

He can't really do that. Earth civilisation was tottering on the brink of collapse after the Sheeda attack, kept going mostly by people pretending really hard. That no longer works. The SI is going to need to spend months on Earth to reassemble anything after this.

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All fanfic eventually turns into Worm or Naruto. Guess this ended up the former.

 

[boo600]

Damn it, Paul.

Just ask for his consent. That's it. That's all you had to do.

This isn't hypnosis, it's a drug. It works whether he knows about it or not.

And if you're determined to have it done, consent or no, you can dose him against his will AFTER ASKING HIM. Still terrible, but you have a chance of him learning Fear in an attempt to stop you from (Robin & Artemis being Dannered)ing him.

You went Full Cauldron, Paul. Except that Cauldron tended to ask for consent (if meaningless, given that the people that they asked were dying and uninformed of the risks).

Don't go Full Cauldron. Just don't.

 

[Mr Zoat]

...Paul did you just turn him into The Batman Who Laughs?

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No. The SI explicitly says that he didn't use the psychoactive part of Smilex, just the parts which cause it to bond to the human brain.

The Batman Who Laughs was a tolerable character up until he transplanted his brain into Dr. Manhattan, which was a pretty stupid story element.

 

[boo600]

What about the bit where Batman…s? Where Batmen? Batmen can only be defeated by a Batman? That seemed to miss the point of the character.
…also, you were able to tolerate that much N52? What the hell is your stomach made of?

 

[Firewillreign]

I imagine he might just not give back the ring.

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I'm sorry, but If I were Paul I'd make retrieving the ring a priority, if not outright destroying it.

Look I love Batman, but the man has a list of issues a mile long and his paranoia can fuck over a ton of people.

Historically whenever Batman makes contingencies, if he's not justified in using them then they're either stolen or used by him when he gets subverted or turned evil or just misguided. Batman with a fully functioning power ring has been demonstrated multiple times in the comics and is fucking terrifying no matter the circumstances.

Paul needs to get that ring back or obliterate it outright no matter how many bridges he burns, because leaving it in the hands of a boss like Batman who's already a questionable choice before counting his now justified grudge against Paul is a recipe for disaster.

 

[Lone Courier 6]

his paranoia

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it's not paranoia if it's Justified, and in Paul's case? it's so very fucking justified.

 

[Vaermina]

Just ask for his consent. That's it. That's all you had to do.

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This.

If he had asked, there's almost no chance Batman would have said no given the circumstances.