With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

WereDragon · Sep 21, 2024

Mr Zoat said:
I don't speak British!

He can at least acknowledge that, which puts him ahead of many.

Stsword · Sep 21, 2024

Mr Zoat said:
People in the Second World War would do that.

It's been my experience that Americans usually call it "World War Two" instead.

RoninSword · Sep 21, 2024

@Mr Zoat haven't we seen Orange Lanterns combine their constructs into one? I'm almost positive they did it during that first scene with Grayven that Wyck was even referencing.

NightmareWarden · Sep 21, 2024

I hope Martyn gets to do an interview on Earth at some point. Or enjoy a drink, have a night just trading military stories, with John Stewart.

NightmareWarden · Sep 21, 2024

RoninSword said:
@Mr Zoat haven't we seen Orange Lanterns combine their constructs into one? I'm almost positive they did it during that first scene with Grayven that Wyck was even referencing.

That was only possible due to Paul's enlightenment and mastery taking the reins. I can't recall seeing it anywhere else... Perhaps with a lantern and their orange ghosts?

Mr Zoat · Sep 21, 2024

Signaller said:
Huh, surprised there wasn't even a single letter in yellow there. Does that mean that whatever Jevek has done has blunted his emotional range?

He's really more confused than afraid.

Stsword said:
It's been my experience that Americans usually call it "World War Two" instead.

Thank you, corrected.

RoninSword said:
@Mr Zoat haven't we seen Orange Lanterns combine their constructs into one? I'm almost positive they did it during that first scene with Grayven that Wyck was even referencing.

It's possible, if their desires are completely in sync. But it's one of the few things that's easier for Green Lanterns.

Mr Zoat · Sep 22, 2024

22nd December 2282
01:01 GMT -6

THUD.

ARGOS isn't particularly fast. Liberty Prime can manage a far faster walking pace.

THUD.

But he can keep going without the need for rest or recuperation, and the sheer length of his legs mean that he's not exactly slow. Only a day of walking to get from Nevada to Colorado, though that was somewhat helped by the fact that he had already cleared the route.

THUD.

And the capture pods have neither gyrostabilisers nor toilets. It's not a fun journey for several reasons. Sleep is effectively impossible, there's only the food and water we brought with us and while power armour has waste plumbing-. Well, every type more advanced than the T-45 does, these pods just have a hatch. We psykers are just hoiking up our robes and holding our noses.

THUD.

This would be hellish in summer.

THUD.

Woosh.

That's new. I use telekinesis to hold myself in place and peer out through the side of the-.

"Hey there Krono!"

An Eyebot that seems to be modified to support one of Doki's three-image displays flies up to me, angled thrusters allowing it to keep up with ARGOS while facing me. Though the bobbing up and down from the micro-adjustments might make me seasick.

"Doki Doki. You do understand that kidnapping is against the law, don't you?"

A sheriff's badge, a truncheon and a pair of handcuffs. "But apprehending fugitives isn't!"

"How was Paladin Justinia a fugitive?"

"The Brotherhood of Steel were deserters from the U.S. army!" The 14-star flag. "During a nuclear war!" A bomb with the radiation symbol on the side. "That's really bad!" A… Set of prison bars?

"Right, but she didn't desert. She isn't even using U.S. government property; technical armour is something the Brotherhood developed themselves, and she built her gun herself based on a design that is now public domain."

"But she's a member of a banned organisation!"

"She-?"

Wait. Wait. The Brotherhood of Steel isn't a banned organisation. Roger Maxson and his fellow mutineers might well have been sentenced to death, but they didn't become the Brotherhood of Steel until after they reached Lost Hills. The pre-War U.S. government never banned them. And while I… Don't know for sure, I don't think that the Enclave ever formally banned them either. They murdered them for being mutants and thieves, not for being members of the organisation. And as far as I know neither WARDEN nor Doki Doki consider the Enclave to be legitimate anyway.

"Banned… By who?"

"By WARDEN, of course!"

I shake my head. "No. WARDEN doesn't have the authority to do that. He enforces laws, he doesn't make them. The state elections aren't going to be held for at least another year. And states don't have the authority to proscribe organisations anyway; that would require a functioning Federal government, which we don't have."

Her screens go blank.

"I didn't think you could lie, Doki."

My cage rattles for a moment, and-. And I blink, falling against the side wall as I lose psychic awareness of anything outside of the room as well as my grip on the floors and walls.

"I'm not lying! WARDEN has the authority under the Emergency Pacification Protocol!"

Oh, I see now. That's not an Eyebot, that's a Hover Robot. The screen has replaced the rocket tubes, but the extra armour…

Sometimes, I'd like to be wrong.

"Calculator. I thought that you were dead."

"Not exactly! The Brotherhood destroyed all of my brain processors! But once Vault Zero was opened, all sorts of scavengers strolled right in! Apparently, they thought that the auto-de-encephalator was an awesome way to execute someone!"

I frown. "One brain? But it wouldn't have had the programming that Calculator's brains had. That shouldn't have reactivated you."

"Nuh-uh! I'm not really a robobrain or a ZAX mainframe! My actual core program was mechanically coded into Vault Zero's structure! I just needed human brains to actually think!"

"Why do you sound like Doki Doki?"

"Doki Doki thought that reactivating Vault Zero would be a SUPER present for WARDENpoos! She plugged herself right into me! My program's treating her hardware like another brain!"

"And WARDEN?"

"Doki Doki had to have her mainframe physically transported to Vault Zero because she wanted to prepare his present herself! There's no way that WARDENpoos would violate protocol like that!"

"So why bother with the Wasteland's Most Eligible Bachelor?"

"The brains I had the first time weren't exactly high quality! One of them designed video games for a living! Completely worthless! But Lanius and McKinley have already expanded my understanding of tactics and savagery! I've already updated the C Twenty Seven's combat routines to take advantage of their knowledge!"

"And the psychic dampener?"

"The Beastlords used psychic powers to control animals! Their brains got mutated by the radiation in the caves they lived in! I talked WARDENpoos into sending out people to investigate a possible illegal dumping, and then once the investigators started hearing animal voices I opened them up to see how they worked! I don't understand psychic powers, but I did learn how to block them!"

Ah. "You 'opened them up'? That can't have been legal."

"New Plague quarantine laws are really flexible and require surprisingly little oversight!"

And… They're still in affect, because no one has the authority to rescind them. At least, according to WARDEN.

"So why do you care about me?"

"Because your people get their psychic powers in a controlled way, and you demonstrate superior leadership skills! My robot armies weren't enough last time, but I'm sure that psychic powers can make all the difference!"

"So you're going to make me one of your brains."

"That's the idea! You'll still be you, but you'll be me too! It'll be neat!"

"What's your ultimate aim?"

"It's a doozy! Because the Emergency Pacification Protocols are engaged, my aim is to destroy every military within the United States of America that is not part of the United States of America! And that's all of them!"

"But… Either the United States doesn't exist, in which case that's outdated, or every descendant of an American citizen inherited citizenship and so just about all of the military organisations are made up of United States citizens. Legally, they're national guard units. American militia formations at worst."

"Unfortunately, my hard-coded programming doesn't take any of that into account! I'd like it if it did, but since it doesn't I've just got to work out the most efficient way to kill everyone!"

ForeverShogo · Sep 22, 2024

The update before this one. That opened with "I can't stop twitching".

When I started to read that, before I pressed on and got the actual context? My first thought was, "The sex with Anissa was that good, huh?"

Chojin Patriarch · Sep 22, 2024

Mr Zoat said:
22th December 2282
01:01 GMT -6

THUD.

ARGOS isn't particularly fast. Liberty Prime can manage a far faster walking pace.

To be fair, Krono, Liberty Prime is a hell of a lot bigger, with longer legs. Let me guess, you 'surrendered' in order to let him take you exactly where his orders say to. You know, leaping head-first into a trap isn't a safe way to disarm them...

THUD.

But he can keep going without the need for rest or recuperation, and the sheer length of his legs mean that he's not exactly slow. Only a day of walking to get from Nevada to Colorado, though that was somewhat helped by the fact that he had already cleared the route.

And anything he didn't kill knows to stay well away from him, then.

THUD.

And the capture pods have neither gyrostabilisers nor toilets. It's not a fun journey for several reasons. Sleep is effectively impossible, there's only the food and water we brought with us and while power armour has waste plumbing-. Well, every type more advanced that the T-45 does, these pods just have a hatch. We psykers are just hoiking up our robes and holding our noses.

...Ew.

I'm guessing the prison's first operation for new or returning inmates is a deep clean.

THUD.

This would be hellish in summer.

So, bets that more than a few captives have died in the process well before they arrive?

THUD.

Woosh.

That's new. I use telekinesis to hold myself in place and peer out through the side of the-.

Ah, they sent something out to meet him, then

"Hey there Krono!"

An Eyebot that seems to be modified to support one of Doki's three-image displays flies up to me, angled thrusters allowing it to keep up with ARGOS while facing me. Though the bobbing up and down from the micro-adjustments might make me seasick.

Such a silly-looking thing, but probably massively dangerous to wastelanders.

"Doki Doki. You do understand that kidnapping is against the law, don't you?"

A sheriff's badge, a truncheon and a pair of handcuffs. "But apprehending fugitives isn't!"

Come now, you can't be that salty about the dating game show thing, surely?

"How was Paladin Justinia a fugitive?"

"The Brotherhood of Steel were deserters from the U.S. army!" The 14-star flag. "During a nuclear war!" A bomb with the radiation symbol on the side. "That's really bad!" A… Set of prison bars?

Is it really desertion if the country they served isn't extant anymore? Also, it's been several hundred years, and unless they became Homo Sapiens Ardens, none of the original operatives are still alive. can you really call new recruits traitors if they never served the original country?

"Right, but she didn't desert. She isn't even using U.S. government property; technical armour is something the Brotherhood developed themselves, and she built her gun herself based on a design that is now public domain."

"But she's a member of a banned organisation!"

Banned by who? In parts of the country, the Brotherhood are the government, aren't they? Or is this dodgy old AI rules-lawyering?

"She-?"

Wait. Wait. The Brotherhood of Steel isn't a banned organisation. Roger Maxson and his fellow mutineers might well have been sentenced to death, but they didn't become the Brotherhood of Steel until after they reached Lost Hills. The pre-War U.S. government never banned them. And while I… Don't know for sure, I don't think that the Enclave ever formally banned them either. They murdered them for being mutants and thieves, not for being members of the organisation. And as far as I know neither WARDEN nor Doki Doki consider the Enclave to be legitimate anyway.

There we go. Simple common sense. Which, sadly, AI isn't bound by.

"Banned… By who?"

"By WARDEN, of course!"

An overly law-abiding prison management AI? Hardly a legitimate legislative branch, Doki.

I shake my head. "No. WARDEN doesn't have the authority to do that. He enforces laws, he doesn't make them. The state elections aren't going to be held for at least another year. And states don't have the authority to proscribe organisations anyway; that would require a functioning Federal government, which we don't have."

Check and mate, little lady-bot.

Her screens go blank.

"I didn't think you could lie, Doki."

...Which means this probably isn't Doki, just someone or something using her style.

My cage rattles for a moment, and-. And I blink, falling against the side wall as I lose psychic awareness of anything outside of the room as well as my grip on the floors and walls.

"I'm not lying! WARDEN has the authority under the Emergency Pacification Protocol!"

Psychic dampeners? That's new. You know if Doki had had them earlier, she'd have used them, after all.

Oh, I see now. That's not an Eyebot, that's a Hover Robot. The screen has replaced the rocket tubes, but the extra armour…

Sometimes, I'd like to be wrong.

Sadly, by dint of protagonist energy... Probably why you're here in this position, helpless before your current enemy.

"Calculator. I thought that you were dead."

"Not exactly! The Brotherhood destroyed all of my brain processors! But once Vault Zero was opened, all sorts of scavengers strolled right in! Apparently, they thought that the auto-de-encephalator was an awesome way to execute someone!"

...I'm sure it's very flashy and bloody. Just the sort of thing to appeal to nutters like that.

I frown. "One brain? But it wouldn't have had the programming that Calculator's brains had. That shouldn't have reactivated you."

"Nuh-uh! I'm not really a robobrain or a ZAX mainframe! My actual core program was mechanically coded into Vault Zero's structure! I just needed human brains to actually think!"

...Figures. So the whole vault is actually it's computer core? Presumably hard-wired with imperatives to gain new brains and processing facilities when not running higher functions.

"Why do you sound like Doki Doki?"

"Doki Doki thought that reactivating Vault Zero would be a SUPER present for WARDENpoos! She plugged herself right into me! My program's treating her hardware like another brain!"

...I have to assume that's entirely in character for her.

"And WARDEN?"

"Doki Doki had to have her mainframe physically transported to Vault Zero because she wanted to prepare his present herself! There's no way that WARDENpoos would violate protocol like that!"

...Great. So the Calcuator now has a crush on another location's AI overseer.

"So why bother with the Wasteland's Most Eligible Batchelor?"

"The brains I had the first time weren't exactly high quality! One of them designed video games for a living! Completely worthless! But Lanius and McKinley have already expanded my understanding of tactics and savagery! I've already updated the C Twenty Seven's combat routines to take advantage of their knowledge!"

...Well, not rescuing them anytime soon, unless full-body conversion cyborgs are a thing.

"And the psychic dampener?"

"The Beastlords used psychic powers to control animals! Their brains got mutated by the radiation in the caves they lived in! I talked WARDENpoos into sending out people to investigate a possible illegal dumping, and then once the investigators started hearing animal voices I opened them up to see how they worked! I don't understand psychic powers, but I did learn how to block them!"

Some psychic powers, most likely. But dump enough power into a jamming device and it'll cover more adjacent wavelengths, I'm guessing.

Ah. "You 'opened them up'? That can't have been legal."

"New Plague quarantine laws are really flexible and require surprisingly little oversight!"

...They are really going to have to sort that out at some point.

And… They're still in affect, because no one has the authority to rescind them. At least, according to WARDEN.

"So why do you care about me?"

Joy...So unless whatever restored government actually calls itself 'The Government of the United States', or whatever exact nouns are coded into WARDEN, it's not going to take any orders from anyone. And there are probably passwords and counter-passwords needed as well that are long lost.

"Because your people get their psychic powers in a controlled way, and you demonstrate superior leadership skills! My robot armies weren't enough last time, but I'm sure that psychic powers can make all the difference!"

"So you're going to make me one of your brains."

If you got that Ring recharged, Krono, this would be a good time to use it.

"That's the idea! You'll still be you, but you'll be me too! It'll be neat!"

"What's your ultimate aim?"

Probably something you're going to have to object to on general principles.

"It's a doozy! Because the Emergency Pacification Protocols are engaged, my aim is to destroy every military within the United States of America that is not part of the United States of America! And that's all of them!"

Oh, boy. Literally-minded AIs at their worst.

"But… Either the United States doesn't exist, in which case that's outdated, or every descendant of an American citizen inherited citizenship and so just about all of the military organisations are made up of United States citizens. Legally, they're national guard units. American militia formations at worst."

"Unfortunately, my hard-coded programming doesn't take any of that into account! I'd like it if it did, but since it doesn't I've just got to work out the most efficient way to kill everyone!"

I'm sure it can be arranged for you to decide that it is fine... Given a little super-advanced alien technology.

So, there's the conflict for the Fallout side of this episode's plot: Krono versus a super-AI in order to save America! I really hope he got paid by Jevek already, or this is going to be very tough. After all, 'most advanced AI-brain composite in America' isn't exactly going to be a match-up for 'superadvanced alien supercomputer' if Krono has the option...

Well, every type more advanced that the T-45 does...

Well, every type more advanced than the T-45 does...

"So why bother with the Wasteland's Most Eligible Batchelor?"

"So why bother with the Wasteland's Most Eligible Bachelor?"

Neruz · Sep 22, 2024

Oh, of course, because why build something like the Calculator if you don't also make it so it can bloody raise itself from the dead.

I swear, House was the only even vaguely sensible robotics expert in pre-war America, and even he was a damn idiot half the time.

It's amazing how many pre-war robotics systems were very intentionally designed to be able to operate all on their own, and then absolutely no-one responsible for programming them bothered to actually consider what to do in the event that said systems do operate on their own.

Ngamer11 · Sep 22, 2024

Chojin Patriarch said:
So, there's the conflict for the Fallout side of this episode's plot: Krono versus a super-AI in order to save America! I really hope he got paid by Jevek already, or this is going to be very tough. After all, 'most advanced AI-brain composite in America' isn't exactly going to be a match-up for 'superadvanced alien supercomputer' if Krono has the option...

Jevek did visit him. That was back on Dec. 14 in Episode 149: Equity. This is happening on Dec. 22.

Old Knife · Sep 22, 2024

Mr Zoat said:
"Unfortunately, my hard-coded programming doesn't take any of that into account! I'd like it if it did, but since it doesn't I've just got to work out the most efficient way to kill everyone!"

This paul needs to borrow the main timeline's robot presidential candidate.
This AI is kinda wonky

0zymandias · Sep 22, 2024

Neruz said:
It's amazing how many pre-war robotics systems were very intentionally designed to be able to operate all on their own, and then absolutely no-one responsible for programming them bothered to actually consider what to do in the event that said systems do operate on their own.

The Doylist reason would be nobody expected a complete collapse in the way it happened, I think the expected at least some form of American government would outlast the collapse. And when that Government was able to get up and running it would benefit from the having AI super weapons; how much benefit is questionable considering those same AI super weapons didn't help preventing the collapse.

I wonder if the New Californian Republic called itself the US government and styled itself as a continuation rather than as a successor if it would lead to stopping these issues.

crazygrox · Sep 22, 2024

Mr Zoat said:
"Unfortunately, my hard-coded programming doesn't take any of that into account! I'd like it if it did, but since it doesn't I've just got to work out the most efficient way to kill everyone!"

Or possibly find a way to make all of those military formations fullfil his hard-coded requirements to count as part of the United States?
It'd be funny if federalism connecting the state governments was started purely as a legalistic dodge to avoid having to fight an AI.

Mr Zoat · Sep 22, 2024

Chojin Patriarch said:
Well, every type more advanced than the T-45 does...
"So why bother with the Wasteland's Most Eligible Bachelor?"

Thank you, corrected.

So, bets that more than a few captives have died in the process well before they arrive?

No. ARGOS was originally just designed to recover prisoners from the area around Tibbets Prison. Doki was sending him further, but a couple of days' travel is unlikely to kill anyone.

...I have to assume that's entirely in character for her.

The original version of her focus tree literally had focuses for doing that.

Joy...So unless whatever restored government actually calls itself 'The Government of the United States', or whatever exact nouns are coded into WARDEN, it's not going to take any orders from anyone. And there are probably passwords and counter-passwords needed as well that are long lost.

No, WARDEN's a little more flexible than that. Unfortunately, he currently recognises MODUS as the lawful ruler of America, but he recognises that that's an incomplete match and would accept a better one instead.

Neruz said:
Oh, of course, because why build something like the Calculator if you don't also make it so it can bloody raise itself from the dead.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLak9XFMsRc

Vaermina · Sep 22, 2024

Mr Zoat said:
"It's a doozy! Because the Emergency Pacification Protocols are engaged, my aim is to destroy every military within the United States of America that is not part of the United States of America! And that's all of them!"

"But… Either the United States doesn't exist, in which case that's outdated, or every descendant of an American citizen inherited citizenship and so just about all of the military organisations are made up of United States citizens. Legally, they're national guard units. American militia formations at worst."

"Unfortunately, my hard-coded programming doesn't take any of that into account! I'd like it if it did, but since it doesn't I've just got to work out the most efficient way to kill everyone!"

That only works if you try to ascribe to the idea that everyone in the United States of America is a member of the military.

Something you didn't establish the Calculator doing.

Someguy Somewhere · Sep 23, 2024

I just had one of those horrible mental flash forwards of 'what if' for how things are going.

Picture if you will, the problem Jevik has with Effigy....not the powers, or even the upgrades they are being given, but the Persons. How do you solve the lack of training or education, the lack of uniformity in mindset, tactics and command. Not a lot of tactical or strategic upgrades have come along with the Alt-Paul 'verses. Perhaps added telepathic communications as suggested with OL here but unlikely without aid of Fallout Krono. What something like that might help a little for the C3...but it doesn't solve the fact that there is a lack of uniformity and reliability of a proper military force acting in concert. Its not like you can just Install that......or Can You?

Jevik goes to The Stargate Alt-Paul, and gets a full DNA scan of a Go'uld Symbiote. As that paul explained to the SGC, the minds of these go'uld have a genetic memory. As shown in the later stargate tv show seasons, the Symbiotes can be programmed with more or less information and freedom....hence the Kull Warriors being the 'upgraded' enemy mooks using them as cloned super soldiers.

Jevik can now mass produce a wetware solution to provide instant training and loyalty to himself, and install it into Effigy Corps members, giving all the appearances of random aliens joining in the good fight, but all having the exact same minds behind them, the same training, the same mission, and the same master. While I don't think he'd actually go and model the mind after himself, he might model it off Effigy Prime. And a whole army of one man.

Mr Zoat · Sep 23, 2024

29th April 2013
16:21 GMT

Captain Foalou brings up a map of those parts of the Reach interior we know well, and then highlights one world.

"There."

He looks disconcertingly like a Tyranid lictor, though a quick check of the N.E.M.O. database reassures me that those mouth tentacles are intended for rooting through sand for concealed invertebrates. His species -the ra'at- are N.E.M.O.'s most significant members in this region, and their amphibious nature gives them a natural ease with three dimensional spaces.

Mr. van Wyck looks for a moment, then shrugs. "Is that good?"

"We can't possible support you there."

Mr. van Wyck shrugs. "I really wasn't expecting you to."

Three more planets near to that planet are then highlighted. "These are worlds believed to have significant Reach naval bases and construction centres. And this one-" Another highlight appears. "-is believed to be a research centre."

"I'm not sure we can hit there too…" Mr. van Wyck looks at me. "I mean, we can try…"

"He means that if anywhere can find a way to counter your abilities at short notice, that's where it is."

"Ah." He frowns. "So how long do you think this will take?"

"Our guest reports that the population is in the hundreds. How many can you carry?"

"Ah, none. We tested it, and they-. It's too much stuff, I guess. Unless they're really small. You?"

"I haven't tested it. Unprotected souls exposed to the Honden are predicted to be torn apart, and I don't feel like taking the risk."

He frowns. "I thought you moved a fleet that time?"

"That required a lot of wizards to shield the ships. We still have most of those ships, but they're obviously L.E.G.I.O.N. ships. The moment they turn up in a Reach system they're marked for death."

"Uh."

Captain Foalou brings up the estimates for ships and outposts in the target system. It's not 'walk across the system' dense, but it's a lot more ships than Team Effigy just fought.

Mr. van Wyck considers it for a moment. "Uh. And the reinforcements are closer than they were to the place we just left?"

"Yes."

"I don't think we can destroy all that fast enough. We could do it eventually -ships that size can't hurt us- but… They'd be able to reinforce them. We haven't tested… Getting shot by ships bigger than cruisers."

"This is not a summary that should be relied upon. This is our best guess, and we did not know that the Reach had a… 'Brain farming' operation here. The defences may well be much stronger."

"Are they all… In one place." Mr. van Wyck glances at me. "I mean, one little town? Or are they spread out? 'cause if there's millions of them then we've got a problem."

"Our guest said that as far as he knows, it's just one settlement. A few hundred." He sort of shrinks in on himself a little. "But that's a good point; he might have just seen his settlement. That's just one of the many things we can't be sure about."

He regains a little of his confidence. "Okay, but how many magic spaceships have we got?"

"About thirty. If we packed them in, we could transport… Two million people? I… Would be surprised if the Reach bothered creating that many for what appears to be a field trial, but it's quite possible that they have."

He watches me for a moment.

"So… They're just dead, then."

"Even if we rescue every single one of them, the Reach will have records of their genetics. There's absolutely nothing stopping them cloning a new generation somewhere else. Perhaps even in the same place."

"That's… Fucked up."

I nod. "That's why we're fighting them. That's why they're the bad guys."

"Yeah, but… I mean, bad, and then…"

I nod again. "Yes. When you were in school, did you ever see recordings of the liberation of the Nazi death camps?"

"I wasn't exactly a-. I didn't really pay attention in school. I don't remember seeing it. Is that what they're like?"

"Oh no. The Reach can exterminate species without hatred or anger. The settlement will probably look quite nice, because that makes controlling the inhabitants easier."

"Yeah, I'm getting that." He takes a deep breath. "So… Is that the plan? We smash up their ships, you bring in our magic ships to get them out, and we try and get away before anyone else shows up?"

"Ah… Thing is, technically, that's up to you."

"Ah, why?"

"I'm here as an observer. The mission which led to us finding out about this was your mission." He looks a little worried. "Now, those regulations were written with the Darkstars, the Orange Lantern Corps and L.E.G.I.O.N. in mind. If you decide that having someone else take charge of the rescue operation makes more sense given the Effigy Corps' relative inexperience, that's fine. Orange Lanterns have handed jobs over to the Darkstars before when they needed an infiltration team more than a bludgeon."

"Ah. So, I can do that?"

"Ah, how do you mean?"

"Well… We don't know what's going on. We've just got one guy who was a brain a few hours ago. That's not exactly-. I mean, we know they were sticking stuff in his head. We don't even really know there's anything there at all."

"Normally, yes, but the Darkstars can't get there."

"What about the magic ships?"

"A couple are rigged for stealth. The problem there is that this is the Reach interior. Their sensors in the interior are really good. They might not pick up you immediately because you're not on their list of targets. A N.E.M.O. stealth ship? Yeah, they'll pick that up pretty quickly. Same with Darkstars. Their stealth systems are good, but I don't think they're that good."

"What about..? If we distract them?"

"There will probably be a lot of Reach personnel there. They can scan for more than one thing at a time."

"So… We could do it? If they don't know what they're scanning for? I mean, it sounds like we don't know anything for sure, but like, it's not a stupid idea?"

"It's… Plausible. But if you don't have a way to do reconnaissance other than flying up to them, they'll… Probably spot that even if they're not explicitly looking for you."

He nods thoughtfully. "I think I need to talk to the-. My Controller."

hance1986 · Sep 23, 2024

Mr Zoat said:
"I'm here as an observed. The mission which led to us finding out about this was your mission."

should be 'observer'

Mr Zoat said:
"Oh no. The Reach can exterminate species without hatred or anger. The settlement will probably be look quite nice, because that makes controlling the inhabitants easier."

look

Mr Zoat · Sep 23, 2024

hance1986 said:
should be 'observer'
look

Thank you, corrected.

Chojin Patriarch · Sep 23, 2024

Mr Zoat said:
29th April 2013
16:21 GMT

Captain Foalou brings up a map of those parts of the Reach interior we know well, and then highlights one world.

"There."

He looks disconcertingly like a Tyranid lictor, though a quick check of the N.E.M.O. database reassures me that those mouth tentacles are intended for rooting through sand for concealed invertebrates. His species -the ra'at- are N.E.M.O.'s most significant members in this region, and their amphibious nature gives them a natural ease with three dimensional spaces.

Heh. Painting a wonderful picture there, OL. Aquatic species probably do have an advantage in space operations. After all, what is space but a big ocean of black?

So, then. Team Effigy looking for somewhere else to hit? That should be a fun challenge.

Mr. van Wyck looks for a moment, then shrugs. "Is that good?"

"We can't possible support you there."

I mean, they'll have to engage in long-range operations sometime.

Mr. van Wyck shrugs. "I really wasn't expecting you to."

Three more planets near to that planet are then highlighted. "These are worlds believed to have significant Reach naval bases and construction centres. And this one-" Another highlight appears. "-is believed to be a research centre."

Sadly, without getting some better large-scale destructive options, attacking facilities isn't efficient.

"I'm not sure we can hit there too…" Mr. van Wyck looks at me. "I mean, we can try…"

"He means that if anywhere can find a way to counter your abilities at short notice, that's where it is."

Once word of said abilities gets out, anyway. The system they hit has probably passed on their scans, but there's only so fast they can get approval, right?

"Ah." He frowns. "So how long do you think this will take?"

"Our guest reports that the population is in the hundreds. How many can you carry?"

...Problem is, is that estimate realistic?

"Ah, none. We tested it, and they-. It's too much stuff, I guess. Unless they're really small. You?"

"I haven't tested it. Unprotected souls exposed to the Honden are predicted to be torn apart, and I don't feel like taking the risk."

And the kind of person he would feel deserves such a death is the kind he wouldn't want to risk taking. For fear of turning someone into a villainous Avarice Elemental thing, if nothing else. And his luck is that bad that would probably happen.

He frowns. "I thought you moved a fleet that time?"

"That required a lot of wizards to shield the ships. We still have most of those ships, but they're obviously L.E.G.I.O.N. ships. The moment they turn up in a Reach system they're marked for death."

And once the mobile patrols turn up, that death would be swift and painful.

"Uh."

Captain Foalou brings up the estimates for ships and outposts in the target system. It's not 'walk across the system' dense, but it's a lot more ships than Team Effigy just fought.

Troublesome. Wanting to help people in trouble is good, but there's no point in committing suicide by garrison.

Mr. van Wyck considers it for a moment. "Uh. And the reinforcements are closer than they were to the place we just left?"

"Yes."

So an even shorter delay before more than they can handle arrives. Yeah, looks like Team Effigy is gonna be stuck doing minor guerilla strikes.

"I don't think we can destroy all that fast enough. We could do it eventually -ships that size can't hurt us- but… They'd be able to reinforce them. We haven't tested… Getting shot by ships bigger than cruisers."

"This is not a summary that should be relied upon. This is our best guess, and we did not know that the Reach had a… 'Brain farming' operation here. The defences may well be much stronger."

The joy of not being able to do destructive testing, given the live subjects. I suspect they won't know just how much they can take until they get hit by something capable of hurting them for real.

"Are they all… In one place." Mr. van Wyck glances at me. "I mean, one little town? Or are they spread out? 'cause if there's millions of them then we've got a problem."

"Our guest said that as far as he knows, it's just one settlement. A few hundred." He sort of shrinks in on himself a little. "But that's a good point; he might have just seen his settlement. That's just one of the many things we can't be sure about."

I doubt there were many opportunities in his childhood for vacations, for example.

He regains a little of his confidence. "Okay, but how many magic spaceships have we got?"

"About thirty. If we packed them in, we could transport… Two million people? I… Would be surprised if the Reach bothered creating that many for what appears to be a field trial, but it's quite possible that they have."

Superior data through overwhelming quantity of samples. It's really just a matter of how profitable they are.

He watches me for a moment.

"So… They're just dead, then."

For a given value of 'dead', maybe? Honestly, better off not worrying until they can snip off enough territory to make a heavier assault worthwhile. And that could take centuries.

"Even if we rescue every single one of them, the Reach will have records of their genetics. There's absolutely nothing stopping them cloning a new generation somewhere else. Perhaps even in the same place."

"That's… Fucked up."

Yes, that's the Reach in a nutshell.

I nod. "That's why we're fighting them. That's why they're the bad guys."

"Yeah, but… I mean, bad, and then…"

This isn't a saturday-morning cartoon level of villainy, here.

I nod again. "Yes. When you were in school, did you ever see recordings of the liberation of the Nazi death camps?"

"I wasn't exactly a-. I didn't really pay attention in school. I don't remember seeing it. Is that what they're like?"

...Americans... Somehow, I think the hardcore nazis would have been impressed by the methods, whatever they would think of the people.

"Oh no. The Reach can exterminate species without hatred or anger. The settlement will probably look quite nice, because that makes controlling the inhabitants easier."

"Yeah, I'm getting that." He takes a deep breath. "So… Is that the plan? We smash up their ships, you bring in our magic ships to get them out, and we try and get away before anyone else shows up?"

Optimistic that you think anyone would want to even attempt this.

"Ah… Thing is, technically, that's up to you."

"Ah, why?"

Ah, yes. The joy of command. Do the right but stupid thing and feel good for a little while, until everyone starts yelling at you for being stupid. Or do the smart but callous thing and feel like a heel because of empathy.

"I'm here as an observer. The mission which led to us finding out about this was your mission." He looks a little worried. "Now, those regulations were written with the Darkstars, the Orange Lantern Corps and L.E.G.I.O.N. in mind. If you decide that having someone else take charge of the rescue operation makes more sense given the Effigy Corps' relative inexperience, that's fine. Orange Lanterns have handed jobs over to the Darkstars before when they needed an infiltration team more than a bludgeon."

Of course, there would be things said about you doing so by the people who are in charge of the evaluation process.

"Ah. So, I can do that?"

"Ah, how do you mean?"

Fumbling in the dark, thanks to his inexperience. He definitely needs command training.

"Well… We don't know what's going on. We've just got one guy who was a brain a few hours ago. That's not exactly-. I mean, we know they were sticking stuff in his head. We don't even really know there's anything there at all."

"Normally, yes, but the Darkstars can't get there."

And the Effigy agents aren't trained for espionage. Bar the one or two who were Darkstars.

"What about the magic ships?"

"A couple are rigged for stealth. The problem there is that this is the Reach interior. Their sensors in the interior are really good. They might not pick up you immediately because you're not on their list of targets. A N.E.M.O. stealth ship? Yeah, they'll pick that up pretty quickly. Same with Darkstars. Their stealth systems are good, but I don't think they're that good."

Picture 'hearing a gnat sneeze in the Oort Cloud' sensitive. That's about the level of paranoia they have, right?

"What about..? If we distract them?"

"There will probably be a lot of Reach personnel there. They can scan for more than one thing at a time."

And the slightest thing out of the ordinary will probably set off alarms anyway. Especially after an enemy strike on a system thought beyond NEMO's reach.

"So… We could do it? If they don't know what they're scanning for? I mean, it sounds like we don't know anything for sure, but like, it's not a stupid idea?"

"It's… Plausible. But if you don't have a way to do reconnaissance other than flying up to them, they'll… Probably spot that even if they're not explicitly looking for you."

He nods thoughtfully. "I think I need to talk to the-. My Controller."

Brace yourself for disappointment. I doubt Jevek will go for this, no matter how good it'll make you feel inside. Such is war and skunkworks-level weapons development.

I can tell Marty's eager to do something about the brain-farming thing, but realistically, there's little he can do with only a single squad of super-powered operatives. I understand he wants to be a hero, but there's a time and place for it, and this war is not likely to be either most of the time. So unless Jevek has something big in his little toybox of planned upgrades... It'll be deep-behind-enemy-lines hit-and-run ops...

WereDragon · Sep 23, 2024

Mr Zoat said:
29th April 2013
16:21 GMT

Doing fairly well for someone with no command experience. And who hasn't even really had much exposure to other people being in command where he could watch.

Bud-E · Sep 23, 2024

Do Effigies have the Viltrumite weakness? The certain frequencies disrupt the inner-ear.

Silverias · Sep 23, 2024

Bud-E said:
Do Effigies have the Viltrumite weakness? The certain frequencies disrupt the inner-ear.

Isn't that less a direct weakness and more just "Hey, it turns out super hearing means that sonic attacks are logically effective"?

boo600 · Sep 23, 2024

Nice to see Effigy working well with Paul.

And…

Ok, I know Paragon forgot about the Beetle, but…

Mr Zoat said:
Ted Kord is active… Ish… As Blue Beetle, and his company is one of the League's suppliers. I guess Wayne Enterprises can't make everything without it looking really suspicious. He isn't a League member yet, but might well end up as one. No Booster Gold, which is a bit of a shame.

And I'm willing to chalk that up to early installment weirdness - one of the early chapters says Superman tops out at 300mph in atmosphere, and then Paul helps him move a moon, so early power levels weren't quite set.

But…

Mr Zoat said:
Oh God." He puts his right hand over his mouth. "There's so many civilian applications for that I don't even know where to... We could shut down tornadoes before they form. Control flood waters, stop fires, halt earthquakes."

"I knew I came to the right place."

"Blue Beetle, power armoured master of the elements!"

And there goes my confidence.

Grayven hasn't been working with a Ted Kord who hasn't been using the beetle because it's inactive. He mildly dislikes him, but knows he introduced himself as Blue Beetle to his face. Why isn't he stealing the scarab for the controllers to analyze? He already has control over the Central Orange Battery; couldn't he at least give it to Dox, if he doesn't trust Hinon?

Also, I'm quietly dying waiting for 'Ted has the scarab' to hit Paul in the face. He's going to blink so quietly.

'Oh.' If it ever happens, it'll be great.

Darko · Sep 24, 2024

boo600 said:
Grayven hasn't been working with a Ted Kord who hasn't been using the beetle because it's inactive. He mildly dislikes him, but knows he introduced himself as Blue Beetle to his face. Why isn't he stealing the scarab for the controllers to analyze? He already has control over the Central Orange Battery; couldn't he at least give it to Dox, if he doesn't trust Hinon

Because he doesn't know he has it.

Scarab's were made to fight Lanterns and they have abilities that can counter rings, like preventing scans.

And Ted never really used the Scarab in his superhero career. He just used gadgets he invented.

Jaime Reyes used it.

Bud-E · Sep 24, 2024

Silverias said:
Isn't that less a direct weakness and more just "Hey, it turns out super hearing means that sonic attacks are logically effective"?

Viltrumites don't have super-hearing they have a sensitive ear for keeping balance while flying, and I was curious if Jevek also gave the Effigies this or not considering they could already fly.

Silverias · Sep 24, 2024

Bud-E said:
Viltrumites don't have super-hearing they have a sensitive ear for keeping balance while flying, and I was curious if Jevek also gave the Effigies this or not considering they could already fly.

Ah, my mistake. Yeah, that's just a genuine weakness.

Mr Zoat · Sep 24, 2024

boo600 said:
And I'm willing to chalk that up to early instalment weirdness - one of the early chapters says Superman tops out at 300mph in atmosphere, and then Paul helps him move a moon, so early power levels weren't quite set.

'Moon' isn't a size. Putting gas thrusters on it would have gotten it to Earth eventually.

Why isn't he stealing the scarab for the controllers to analyze?

Ted Kord tried to use the Scarab and it didn't activate. Dan Garret only got it active enough to use the wings, which don't look like something a Scarab Warrior would use.

Mr Zoat · Sep 24, 2024

22nd December 2282
11:32 GMT -6

The Vault Zero encampment outside of the Vault is really just a loading and unloading area for materials brought in for the research team housed inside, or the occasional piece of broken equipment going back to Denver for a repair that can't be managed on-site.

"Brothers! This mad AI has us as prisoners!"

I can hear Justinia banging on the sides of her cage, but none of the Paladins standing guard outside of the Vault door bother looking around. Huh. Dead bodies or empty suits of armour propped up? No, those two are moving out of ARGOS's way-. In perfect synchronicity, without looking at each other.

Calculator's Hover Robot drifts over to her pod. "Oh, those aren't your Brothers! You'd think the Maxson Chapter would be better at keeping track of who their members are!"

"Explain yourself!"

"Your Brothers in the Alamo Chapter discovered something underneath Fort Hood! The Sentinel Command Slave unit is basically a robot brain for a suit of power armour! Once I had Maxson Chapter codes, I used satellite links to ask them to share! Once I had enough, I ordered the real garrison back to Denver as I gradually replace them with 'new recruits'!"

"What have you done to the Scribes?!"

"I've gotten really close to Head Scribe Elrick, and he'd just be devastated if anything happened to any of them! He's really smart and well-educated!"

Shit.

I never actually met the man, but a Brotherhood head scribe would have access to… Just about everything. If Calculator's taken his-.

The Vault doors open, and a convoy of robots-. For a moment I think that it's a robobrain, but the head and shoulders are more reminiscent of a sentry bot and it has hands rather than weapons on its arms. Loadlifter Robots roll out on caterpillar tracks as ARGOS comes to a halt, followed by Tank Track Robots whose infamous flails have been replaced by cargo pod attachment points.

ARGOS kneels, with a THUD, and a Loadlifter comes closer to remove a capture pod from his sides and transfer them to a Tank Track Robot.

"Calculator?"

I lean forwards in my pod to try and spot the Hover-. Ah, there it is, overseeing the process. Most robots aren't really designed for centralised remote control, but if Calculator has adapted Sentinel Command Slaves for its entire force...

The Hover Robot flies back towards me. "I have to say, you're taking this very well! Usually people are screaming and beating the capture pod with their fists by now!"

"Did that work for any of them?"

"No!"

I shrug. The psychic baffles don't stop me enhancing myself, and between that and my mutant strength I could probably break out. But then what? Those are T-51s out there, combined with the heavy worker robots and whatever force Calculator can bring to bear from inside the Vault and across Colorado.

"If you want my brain, should I be unloaded first?"

"I'm not in any kind of rush! And I think you'll cooperate better when I have your friends hostage!"

That's probably true. Hm. The manufacturing facilities in Vault 0 aren't all that extensive. People would have noticed if Robot City was sending large numbers of newly built robots in this direction, and the Warrior's team went scorched earth on the place when they destroyed Calculator the first time. There shouldn't be that many robots in guard duty.

I… Think.

"Where did you get the power armour from?"

"Replacement parts add up! And the Maxson Chapter never found all the dead Midwest Chapter soldiers!"

Again, there couldn't be all that many. The Midwest Chapter is based in Chicago, and while their campaign against the Calculator forced them to extend way outside of their home territory they can't have lost that much equipment. And Calculator hasn't had time to explore the entire region.

"Why hasn't the Brotherhood in Denver detected your transmissions to the Sentinel units?"

"They have! They just think it's static! And I don't send them very far from Vault Zero!"

So they can probably be deactivated by destroying the antennae. Or at least, be prevented from receiving further orders.

Okay. Doki Doki doesn't broadcast from a central location. She does have one, but she usually just copies her program into the robots around her and assumes that her copies are going to do exactly what she would. Individual Doki Doki units stay in contact with nearby units by radio, but it's just communication; they can't forcibly corrupt each other like that. But Calculator could easily send out an update-.

"Are there any copies of Doki Doki currently free?"

"Yep! I don't think they've noticed yet! That's half the reason why I talk like this!"

"What's the other half?"

"Doki Doki really doesn't like my programming! She's fighting really hard! Using her linguistic pathways means that I can focus on areas that actually matter!"

"To be clear, the 'Calculator' isn't exactly an AI in its own right?"

"I guess that depends on how you look at it! Technically, the Calculator is a set of objectives made manifest through the brains that make up its processors! But by that standard, I'm an instance of the Calculator, and there's no way to classify me as anything other than an AI! Philosophy sure is interesting!"

"So is the reason that the first instance of the Calculator was such a psycho something to do with its component brains?"

"It's kinda difficult for me to be sure! The Warrior was really thorough in destroying my brains! But America was a pretty harsh place before the nuclear war, and I'm sure that affected the way a lot of them thought about things!"

"So if you got a lot of brains who didn't think about things like that..? What would happen?"

"I'd probably be a lot more patient about how I go about things! And I know where you're going with that, but you have to understand that the fundamental parts of the Calculator program can't be altered! Everyone in America knows that they're not American citizens, whether they consider themselves allied to a successor nation or a tribal group! And I'm programmed not to see the Enclave as Americans!"

"You are? Why?"

"Data not available! But I'm pretty sure that the people who oversaw Vault Zero's construction weren't included in the Enclave's evacuation plans, and were pretty sore about that!"

"Is your program flexible enough to allow the people currently occupying America to become Americans?"

"I'm pretty sure that I'd have to acknowledge their authority the moment that happened! But I can't delay my work just because it might happen at some point! The moment I've got enough force to start my counterattack, that's what I'm going to do!"

"What if we gave you extra robots?"

"That is highly contradictory to my models of your probable behaviors!"

"If you know that we're going to give you robots, then you know that you'll always be stronger in the future than you are today. So until we stop, it would always be rational to keep delaying and building your strength."

"That's a clever piece of solipsism! Unfortunately, receiving gifts from people designated 'Enemies of America' is unacceptable!"

"And if we just left them somewhere and you stole them?"

"They you're weak enough to attack for real!"

"How about-?"

Ooh!

I grab the edges of my pod again as a Loadlifter lifts my pod down from ARGOS's side and deposits me on a Tank Track Robot, the Hover Robot following along behind me as it drives towards the Vault door.

"You're really clever! I can't wait to find out what programs I can run on your brain!"

With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

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