With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

RoninSword · Tuesday at 10:34 PM

Illustres did get his ring to say the name Paul for him. It just seems like he forgets that that's a thing he can do most of the time.

Darko · Tuesday at 10:35 PM

RoninSword said:
Illustres did get his ring to say the name Paul for him. It just seems like he forgets that that's a thing he can do most of the time.

Paragon does that, but I don't think renegade ever considered doing that.

Darko · Tuesday at 10:49 PM

Mr Zoat said:
and not a jot of progress

"a lot"

Darko · Tuesday at 11:12 PM

Mr Zoat said:
No you don't. This could fuck up everything. SHOW ME.

The . at the end should be in godspeech.

Mr Zoat said:
T'Pexor holds his amulet up to apparently empty space, and the ancient citadel of Z'onn Z'orr shimmers

Link is broken.

Mr Zoat · Tuesday at 11:48 PM

Darko said:
The . at the end should be in godspeech.
Link is broken.

Thank you, corrected.

Darko said:
"a lot"

No, that's valid.

Darko · 2025-06-25T00:50:13+0100

Mr Zoat said:
newer. But the main tower is essentially

This one seems to be broken too.

mastermenthe · 2025-06-25T00:53:42+0100

CrazyNoVa said:
you think there aren't humans out there who struggle with homicidal impulses, depraved sexual fetishes or crippling addictions that they don't have to fight against every day

Of course there aren't, all three of those categories are all the result of being born as/by/from demons!

/s

Mr Zoat · 2025-06-25T06:29:46+0100

Late Winter, IC 690
That night

"…all of them, Senator. My impression is that they simply found that free men labouring on their own lands work harder than slaves labouring for their master."

Senator Karzel nods, clearly having a little difficulty with the idea. He's the leader of the peace-inclined faction of the senate, which is smaller than the groups that favour aggressive expansion but a good deal more unified. Diabo will need to make a favourable impression in order to rule effectively, but I doubt that will be difficult. Diabo would be happiest if he could avoid going anywhere near a battlefield ever again, and if that means that everyone else gets to avoid them then that's something that he's willing to accept.

"Then what do they do with prisoners of war, or criminals?"

"Well, that depends. According to their laws, prisoners captured in battle are generally held in confinement until the end of the war, at which point they would be returned to their homelands. Civilians who do not raise a weapon are left to their own devices. I saw reports of individual soldiers failing to live up to those standards; regardless of their artifice, men are men everywhere."

"Of course." The senator nods. "Is that what you meant by 'generally'?"

"Not entirely. There are some deeds considered so infamous that even in times of war they are considered punishable. A soldier found guilty of those would be punished, but in much the same way that a man would in times of peace. In practice, such laws were usually only enforced against weaker nations, but even the stronger ones must maintain the appearance of obeying them or lose the support of their allies."

"And… Tribute? I am struggling to accept that the victor does not demand some recompense from the vanquished."

"Yes, they demand money, territory, favourable trade treaties, changes in who governs the defeated nation… It would be as if-."

"As if we made tributaries, rather than-" He nods. "-seizing territory to rule directly. As… You did."

"If a nation keeps expanding, it will always have foes on its borders. If instead it offers generous terms for vassalage, unnecessary conflicts are avoided. And we can avoid needing to empty our fields to rebuild our legions from the losses taken during the brief war with Japan."

Senator Karzel has the look of a beggar who has just been given a pouch of gold and is waiting to be accused of theft.

"And… They would remain vassal states indefinitely? I would have thought that if the vassals come to outnumber the governing nation, those trade terms might rapidly be reversed."

"Of course not. Gradually, through the sharing of culture and technology the barbarian vassals would be raised from their barbaric state until they are culturally indistinguishable from the people of the Saderan Empire proper. Then, by their own will, they could choose to be annexed by the Empire, normalising trade and granting them representation in the Senate."

"That would be a very long term endeavour."

"Perhaps three or four generations. And it would pay for itself, and produce far fewer casualties and less resistance than outright conquest. Even our more restive vassals accept that we are the greater civilisation. I believe that they would willingly assimilate fully, given the opportunity."

And it doesn't hurt that several of those vassals owe him for preventing their armies dying to a man against Japanese guns.

"I… Believe… That my allies in the Senate would give any.. such proposal a favourable hearing, should it be put before them."

Diabo nods, smiling in a way which I think is genuine. Of course, wrestling control of the Hawk faction… S, will be significantly-.

"Brother! And Senator!"

And here comes Zorzal. This should be-

"Crowing of your victory before the craven, Diabo!?" Zorzal walks up to Diabo, shouldering Karzel aside, and slaps Diabo on the shoulder. "It seems that you take after me in more than just military prowess!"

-painful. But Diabo grins and bears it.

Come to think of it, Emperor Molt almost certainly didn't mention the pact to make Diabo crown prince to the current holder of that title, did he?

"Senator, would you give my brother and I the room?"

Senator Karzel bows politely. "Of course, your highness. Prince Zorzal." He backs away in case Zorzal seems like shoving him again, but Zorzal is entirely focused on his younger brother.

"I even hear that you've picked up an entire tribe of bunny-whores! I don't think numbers trump rank, but I admire your libido! Hahaha!"

"I use them as skirmishers, Zorzal. I haven't touched any of them."

"Sticking to humans, huh? It seems like an odd thing to worry about -you're hardly going to marry them- but if that's what works for you-. Or is it the elf? Or is this new inner fire of yours fuelled by your lust for the Apostle? It-." Zorzal looks around the room, and finds it empty. "Alright, he's gone." He stops grinning, looking a good deal more serious. "Are you alright? That assassination attempt looked pretty serious, but you don't look wounded."

"I'm fine. The only one injured was Chief-. The leader of my auxiliaries. And she's made a full recovery."

Zorzal nods. And… Yes, it wasn't him. Nothing in his physiology suggests any irritation at that turn of events, and I can feel Diabo using the ring to check. "Still, suborning the praetorians wouldn't be cheap-. Or are they impostors?"

"If they are, they managed to acquire genuine armour and swords. I've arranged to have them held until I can interrogate them."

"Good. Do you want to borrow my torturer, or do you have your own?"

"I… Don't need a torturer. I have… Other options. What I think we should both be concerned about is this."

He takes the letter out of subspace and offers it to his brother.

"This was found on one of the assassins. A very similar letter was found on the other."

Zorzal shrugs, then opens it. He frowns as he sees the seal, then his eyes widen as he reads the rest.

"This-! I wouldn't-!"

"Wouldn't be stupid enough to give them written orders, yes, I'd realised that."

"Let me talk to the bowmen! I'll soon-."

"You're not thinking this through, Zorzal. Plenty of people might want to assassinate me, but how many could give the praetorians orders or get access to your seal?"

Zorzal frowns for a moment, then his eyes widen. "Father? Why?"

"I don't know. And I don't know for certain that it was him. I need to finish the interrogation, and then make enquiries."

"But why would anyone think that I'd want to kill you?"

"Because I made a deal with father; if I successfully developed black powder weapons, he agreed to make me crown prince."

Zorzal blinks. "What?"

"But he hasn't actually done it yet. He could be trying to play us off against each other, or-."

"You want to be crown prince?"

"Yes. I learned so much from the other world that I need to implement, and that will be easier as Emperor."

Zorzal scowls. "You'll find I'm harder to get rid of than that." He turns on his heel. "I'm going to find out who stole my seal, and you can put any plans for stealing my birthright out of your mind!"

Mr Zoat · 2025-06-25T06:33:05+0100

Darko said:
This one seems to be broken too.

I'll just get rid of it.

Duke Long · 2025-06-25T06:57:31+0100

Mr Zoat said:
Come to think of it, Emperor Molt almost certainly didn't mention the pact to make Diabo crown prince to the current holder of that title, did he?.

Extraneous full stop.

Mr Zoat said:
"Still, suborning the praetorians wouldn't be cheap-. Or are they impostures?"

Huh, never seen that word before. Also, surprising how nice Zorzal is being. Did not get that impression from him.

Chojin Patriarch · 2025-06-25T07:09:32+0100

Mr Zoat said:
Late Winter, IC 690
That night

"…all of them, Senator. My impression is that they simply found that free men labouring on their own lands work harder than slaves labouring for their master."

Ah, Diabo politicking already, I see. And from the sounds of it, explaining his actions during his campaign. Just getting his ideas in line before a full presentation to the government leaders, or a more directed 'Is this not a better way?' ploy, I wonder...

Senator Karzel nods, clearly having a little difficulty with the idea. He's the leader of the peace-inclined faction of the senate, which is smaller than the groups that favour aggressive expansion but a good deal more unified. Diabo will need to make a favourable impression in order to rule effectively, but I doubt that will be difficult. Diabo would be happiest if he could avoid going anywhere near a battlefield ever again, and if that means that everyone else gets to avoid them then that's something that he's willing to accept.

Heh, planning to be a king of peacetime, rather than a saddle-emperor.

"Then what do they do with prisoners of war, or criminals?"

"Well, that depends. According to their laws, prisoners captured in battle are generally held in confinement until the end of the war, at which point they would be returned to their homelands. Civilians who do not raise a weapon are left to their own devices. I saw reports of individual soldiers failing to live up to those standards; regardless of their artifice, men are men everywhere."

Ah, discussing the modern Earth rules of war, I see. A much more reasonable methodology, when all involved keep to them.

"Of course." The senator nods. "Is that what you meant by 'generally'?"

"Not entirely. There are some deeds considered so infamous that even in times of war they are considered punishable. A soldier found guilty of those would be punished, but in much the same way that a man would in times of peace. In practice, such laws were usually only enforced against weaker nations, but even the stronger ones must maintain the appearance of obeying them or lose the support of their allies."

Warcrimes are quite the logistical nightmare sometimes. And again, it depends on all combatants honouring the Rules.

"And… Tribute? I am struggling to accept that the victor does not demand some recompense from the vanquished."

"Yes, they demand money, territory, favourable trade treaties, changes in who governs the defeated nation… It would be as if-."

Just have to be careful you don't leave the defeated nations seething so badly at their 'punishment' that they come back in twenty years for another go...

"As if we made tributaries, rather than-" He nods. "-seizing territory to rule directly. As… You did."

"If a nation keeps expanding, it will always have foes on its borders. If instead it offers generous terms for vassalage, unnecessary conflicts are avoided. And we can avoid needing to empty our fields to rebuild our legions from the losses taken during the brief war with Japan."

And the vassal states act as buffers to the ruling state. Easy enough to reinforce, strong enough to prevent direct invasions.

Senator Karzel has the look of a beggar who has just been given a pouch of gold and is waiting to be accused of theft.

"And… They would remain vassal states indefinitely? I would have thought that if the vassals come to outnumber the governing nation, those trade terms might rapidly be reversed."

Not if the governing nation is so powerful it can't be beaten. Either by psychology or by military might...

"Of course not. Gradually, through the sharing of culture and technology the barbarian vassals would be raised from their barbaric state until they are culturally indistinguishable from the people of the Saderan Empire proper. Then, by their own will, they could choose to be annexed by the Empire, normalising trade and granting them representation in the Senate."

A polite annexation, rather than a destructive and divisive war. Much better, if not as glorious for the guys who think power comes from their sword-arm.

"That would be a very long term endeavour."

"Perhaps three or four generations. And it would pay for itself, and produce far fewer casualties and less resistance than outright conquest. Even our more restive vassals accept that we are the greater civilisation. I believe that they would willingly assimilate fully, given the opportunity."

Especially if promised a say in their governance, which they'd gain as a province within the Empire.

And it doesn't hurt that several of those vassals owe him for preventing their armies dying to a man against Japanese guns.

"I… Believe… That my allies in the Senate would give any.. such proposal a favourable hearing, should it be put before them."

Heh. He's sniffing the bait, but hasn't bitten down quite yet...

Diabo nods, smiling in a way which I think is genuine. Of course, wrestling control of the Hawk faction… S, will be significantly-.

"Brother! And Senator!"

Because of course there's multiple factions that favour war. Probably with their own preferences, such as 'wipe them form the land and replace them with our own people'...

And here comes Zorzal. This should be-

"Crowing of your victory before the craven, Diabo!?" Zorzal walks up to Diabo, shouldering Karzel aside, and slaps Diabo on the shoulder. "It seems that you take after me in more than just military prowess!"

And I bet this sort of thing is why the peaceful senators don't hold him in high esteem.

-painful. But Diabo grins and bears it.

Come to think of it, Emperor Molt almost certainly didn't mention the pact to make Diabo crown prince to the current holder of that title, did he?.

Well, that'll be a nasty surprise for him. Hopefully he accepts defeat gracefully. But I doubt it.

"Senator, would you give my brother and I the room?"

Senator Karzel bows politely. "Of course, your highness. Prince Zorzal." He backs away in case Zorzal seems like shoving him again, but Zorzal is entirely focused on his younger brother.

Probably grumbling inside about 'that cocksure fool.'

"I even hear that you've picked up an entire tribe of bunny-whores! I don't think numbers trump rank, but I admire your libido! Hahaha!"

"I use them as skirmishers, Zorzal. I haven't touched any of them."

Though some of them probably have hopes of touching you, Diabo.

"Sticking to humans, huh? It seems like an odd thing to worry about -you're hardly going to marry them- but if that's what works for you-. Or is it the elf? Or is this new inner fire of yours fuelled by your lust for the Apostle? It-." Zorzal looks around the room, and finds it empty. "Alright, he's gone." He stops grinning, looking a good deal more serious. "Are you alright? That assassination attempt looked pretty serious, but you don't look wounded."

...Oh-ho, is the cock-o'-the-walk pose an act for a hidden measure of political savvy? I suppose he couldn't actually hold his title by muscle alone.

"I'm fine. The only one injured was Chief-. The leader of my auxiliaries. And she's made a full recovery."

Zorzal nods. And… Yes, it wasn't him. Nothing in his physiology suggests any irritation at that turn of events, and I can feel Diabo using the ring to check. "Still, suborning the praetorians wouldn't be cheap-. Or are they impostures?"

That's a good angle. Though it's probably a high crime to perform such an impersonation.

"If they are, they managed to acquire genuine armour and swords. I've arranged to have them held until I can interrogate them."

"Good. Do you want to borrow my torturer, or do you have your own?"

The drawback of old-fashioned torture is that the victim will say anything for it to stop...

"I… Don't need a torturer. I have… Other options. What I think we should both be concerned about is this."

He takes the letter out of subspace and offers it to his brother.

...Whereas Diabo can employ some of the tricksier Ring functions to determine their truthfulness.

"This was found on one of the assassins. A very similar letter was found on the other."

Zorzal shrugs, then opens it. He frowns as he sees the seal, then his eyes widen as he reads the rest.

Well, that's not the reaction of someone who knew this existed, I see, unless he's a really good actor.

"This-! I wouldn't-!"

"Wouldn't be stupid enough to give them written orders, yes, I'd realised that."

Evidence trails, after all. At least if he claimed to have commented about 'Diabo having a little accident' or something, that the assassins took more seriously, that would be plausible deniability.

"Let me talk to the bowmen! I'll soon-."

"You're not thinking this through, Zorzal. Plenty of people might want to assassinate me, but how many could give the praetorians orders or get access to your seal?"

Ah... Someone's playing games of succession, I see.

Zorzal frowns for a moment, then his eyes widen. "Father? Why?"

"I don't know. And I don't know for certain that it was him. I need to finish the interrogation, and then make enquiries."

Presumably testing them to see how well one can be played against the other. After all, I suspect he wasn't happy about Diabo's little ~~extortion~~ arrangement.

"But why would anyone think that I'd want to kill you?"

"Because I made a deal with father; if I successfully developed black powder weapons, he agreed to make me crown prince."

Since that level of advancement would be a reasonable grounds for promotion.

Zorzal blinks. "What?"

"But he hasn't actually done it yet. He could be trying to play us off against each other, or-."

"You want to be crown prince?"

Really? That's your problem with this, Zee?

"Yes. I learned so much from the other world that I need to implement, and that will be easier as Emperor."

Zorzal scowls. "You'll find I'm harder to get rid of than that." He turns on his heel. "I'm going to find out who stole my seal, and you can put any plans for stealing my birthright out of your mind!"

...And things were going so well. Now he's on his guard and more than a little hostile.

At least Zorzal wasn't foolish enough to try and kill him then and there out of spite or anger. Probably based on his reputation with the Ring. Still, now that he knows his position is under threat, he's going to be trickier to deal with. What's the bet he decides to go out and start a ruckus about 'proving his worth as Crown Prince' and causing some foolish trouble?

B00ki5h · 2025-06-25T07:13:08+0100

Mr Zoat said:
. "I'm going to find out who stole my seal, and you can put any plans for stealing my birthright out of your mind!"

If I remember correctly Zorzal was the second son and the emperor killed his own heir.

Vaermina · 2025-06-25T07:27:42+0100

So is there ever going to be a connection point with this alt universe Gate bad future side story?

Mr Zoat · 2025-06-25T08:30:16+0100

Duke Long said:
Extraneous full stop.

Thank you, corrected.

Huh, never seen that word before.

Which word?

Also, surprising how nice Zorzal is being. Did not get that impression from him.

Zorzal is perfectly capable of being pleasant, when he thinks that he should. To his harmless younger brother who'd actually managed something impressive? Yes, he'd be polite. That might change now that he knows that he's a political threat.

B00ki5h said:
If I remember correctly Zorzal was the second son and the emperor killed his own heir.

Kati was adopted... Probably. Like with many things that should have been covered in more detail in the original, it wasn't.

WereDragon · 2025-06-25T10:48:24+0100

Mr Zoat said:
Zorzal scowls. "You'll find I'm harder to get rid of than that." He turns on his heel. "I'm going to find out who stole my seal, and you can put any plans for stealing my birthright out of your mind!"

So is he one of those hypocrites who spouts both 'might makes right' and 'divine destiny' rhetoric?

Mr Zoat · 2025-06-25T13:02:45+0100

WereDragon said:
So is he one of those hypocrites who spouts both 'might makes right' and 'divine destiny' rhetoric?

He considers it to be his birthright because he's the eldest trueborn son of the current emperor.

DAT_NOOB · 2025-06-25T14:01:21+0100

Mr Zoat said:
And now I've got to contact Jade and find out what malcontent is on the menu.

Jade? Did she come back after the break up?

Duke Long · 2025-06-25T14:14:11+0100

Mr Zoat said:
Which word?

'impostures'. I assumed it was a typo for 'impostors', but apparently 'imposture' is a word. I don't get the impression that it ought to be used in that context, but it seems like it could be fine.

Ardy · 2025-06-25T15:05:01+0100

DAT_NOOB said:
Jade? Did she come back after the break up?

Yeah, they met in Tibet and she's working for him now, albeit with little direct communication due to awkwardness

Mr Zoat · 2025-06-25T15:58:55+0100

DAT_NOOB said:
Jade? Did she come back after the break up?

They met up in Tibet after he came back to Earth and talked things over. Since the League of Shadows is defuct, she's been taking work from Grayven and Friends. At the moment she's in North Africa. Without the Anti-Life, the countries didn't collapse and ask Adom to annex them, so that's being nudged along.

Duke Long said:
'impostures'. I assumed it was a typo for 'impostors', but apparently 'imposture' is a word. I don't get the impression that it ought to be used in that context, but it seems like it could be fine.

No, that's just me spelling it wrong.

Stsword · 2025-06-26T00:56:20+0100

Lazelurker said:
snip snip snip

Laze, you mistakenly commented in the story only thread.

You need to bring those corrections over here and delete your comment.

Mr Zoat · 2025-06-26T06:19:25+0100

And That's Okay

19th July 2013
09:01 GMT -5

"So, I like to think that I can learn from my mistakes."

Diana makes a point of not biting her lip. She does however direct her gaze towards her desk.

"And neither of us want to go through another Nabu situation."

She can't stop herself reacting to that, her head coming up and her eyes focusing on me. "I had not realised that you were so concerned."

"Ye-ah. I was just 'a bit concerned' when it turned out that Batman had been mind wiping people with Apokoliptian technology -which I think is a bit of a red flag- and commanding them from a throne built of Apokoliptian technology. Because I thought that was all getting destroyed."

"Batman believes that it could help guard against future attacks."

"We can't guard against future attacks. We can't learn to use Apokoliptian technology better than the Apokoliptians do within a meaningful timeframe. Our best defence is that Darkseid doesn't particularly want to attack Earth, but if we insult him or give him a free shot, then that will change."

"How is this a 'free shot'?"

"We've basically made off-brand Justifiers. They still use the same Apokoliptian system to tie them all together and empower them. Once he's out of his current art-trance I'm going to ask Canis to try ordering some of them using his god powers. If he can -and he's a relatively weak New God- then… Any of Apokolips's great and powerful could do the same."

"That is a reasonable precaution."

"I'd also like you to do the same." She looks curious. "You know, one red penguin proves that red penguins exist, a million black and white ones doesn't prove that they don't…"

"If I remember your report on Minosyss correctly, then you seem to have better choices available to you. Their New Gods already proved that they could use Apokolipitan technology."

"That's even worse. Our best intelligence is that Grayven has a grand total of one Apokoliptian ship, and there's no sign that Apokolips is supplying him. But they might take an interest in Minosyss, and they're… Not in a position to deal with that. I might try badgering them if the fate of the universe was on the line, but… If it's… I don't like saying 'just Earth', but-."

She nods. "I understand. Their rulers should look to the interests of their own people first. I will agree to help test the system, but unless you have an excellent reason not to I will speak to Batman about it first."

"Not sure. I'll… Explain why I've gone from 'slightly concerned' to 'highly concerned' first, then… You decide."

"Very well."

"Have you read my report about the O.M.A.C. units the Karas and I fought?"

"Yes. Jervis Tetch was able to take control-."

"No. No. I'm not worried about mind control. Mind control happens. He's had mind control powers for years. I can mind control people, and I'm not that much of a hypocrite. The issue is that mind control doesn't let you turn people into robotic killing machines if they didn't have that capacity already."

She nods, looking sombre. "You believe that he simply activated it."

"Yes. And…" I sigh. How can I say this..? "Do you remember Olympia?"

"The version of me from the Crime Syndicate.." She nods, smiling faintly. "If I remember correctly, I make a worse criminal than I do a hero."

"Right, well… As a result of my contact with parallel universes-" That's true enough that it shouldn't ping her lie detector. "-I read a record where a version of Batman… Well, without wanting to get into some very personal things that don't apply here, that version of Batman built a powerful monitoring A.I. called Brother Eye. The A.I. went on to create a system for implanting nanotechnology into people which would convert them into remote controlled killer cyborgs exactly like those ones that it could use as a covert army."

"I take it that they did not remain inactive."

"No. And there ended up being a lot of those O.M.A.C.s. And I know that it's a bad idea to assume that things will go that way just because they did in a parallel universe, but it looks really similar."

Diana considers that for a moment. "You believe that Batman is creating an army of killing machines whose free will he can completely subvert at will."

"I believe that it looks a lot like that's what's happening. I don't know for certain. Has he discussed the matter with you?"

"Not in detail." She regards me with curiosity. "Do you intend to ask me to avoid discussing it with him?"

"No. No. I-."

"You still feel guilty for altering his mind."

"I should feel guilty for doing that. Sometimes Agamemnon needs to sacrifice Iphigenia but he should not rest easily afterwards. I accept that. My problem is that I reversed it to the best of my ability afterwards… And he's still doing this. I don't know what I've done wrong! He basically told me that he redid it!"

"That would be in character-."

"But he shouldn't want to. He was happy being more cheerful, and it can't be a functionally crazy thing because that was something he did while Mannheim was ruling the Earth. I can't work out why-."

Diana beckons me closer. I comply.

"What?"

She reaches across her desk, takes hold of my left hand and… Points to my ring.

Ah.

"I… Maybe..? I gave it to him before I altered his thought processes, but he struggled to use it. Something might have happened to him once he activated it… Sinestro had already gone off the rails before he got his, but it's… Not impossible that his-. Part of his change in modus operandi was a result of his exposure to the yellow light… But Batman's been using fear as a tool for years. And the Yellow Lantern Citadelian I met didn't change that much. But it's…" I recover my hand. "It's possible."

"I will remind Batman of the occasion during your training where we ordered you to forsake your ring for a week. Perhaps if he were separated from it for a time, he would recover."

"Maybe? Might be a good idea to ask Mister J'onzz to take a look, just in case Sinestro did something to the ring."

"I will ask Batman if he will accept that. Without direct evidence of malfeasance on his part, I will not ask J'onn to force that upon him."

"No, that's fine. Perfectly reasonable. Ah… One other thing. Do you have any idea why the Peace Agents are so fixated on finding The Question?"

She shakes her head. "No. Is he missing?"

"No. He's just avoiding Justice League affiliates. I'm not saying that we shouldn't do 'wellness checks' if there's a reason to believe that a person is in trouble, they've just been being weirdly insistent about him and there's no evidence that he's in trouble."

"I will raise that with Batman as well." She smiles. "Thank you for trusting me enough to speak with me about this."

I smile ruefully. "I can hardly complain about Batman being paranoid and then be just as paranoid right back, can I?"

Darko · 2025-06-26T06:52:53+0100

Mr Zoat said:
version of Batman build a

"built"

Chojin Patriarch · 2025-06-26T07:32:42+0100

Mr Zoat said:
And That's Okay

19th July 2013
09:01 GMT -5

"So, I like to think that I can learn from my mistakes."

New episode time! I'd wondered why the Renegade scenes popped up. They were a sort of denouement. As for this one... Between the title and this initial statement (And boy, is that a loaded sentence or what?) there's a lot of potential there for people finding problems to deal with or accept...

Diana makes a point of not biting her lip. She does however direct her gaze towards her desk.

"And neither of us want to go through another Nabu situation."

At least he's self-aware enough to recognise the risk.

She can't stop herself reacting to that, her head coming up and her eyes focusing on me. "I had not realised that you were so concerned."

"Ye-ah. I was just 'a bit concerned' when it turned out that Batman had been mind wiping people with Apokoliptian technology -which I think is a bit of a red flag- and commanding them from a throne built of Apokoliptian technology. Because I thought that was all getting destroyed."

Wait, an actual throne he was sitting in, or just a metaphorical throne? Bicause there's a big difference.

"Batman believes that it could help guard against future attacks."

"We can't guard against future attacks. We can't learn to use Apokoliptian technology better than the Apokoliptians do within a meaningful timeframe. Our best defence is that Darkseid doesn't particularly want to attack Earth, but if we insult him or give him a free shot, then that will change."

And trying to use the enemy's tech against them is fraught with all manner of dangers. Not least is them turning it back on you or corrupting you through it.

"How is this a 'free shot'?"

"We've basically made off-brand Justifiers. They still use the same Apokoliptian system to tie them all together and empower them. Once he's out of his current art-trance I'm going to ask Canis to try ordering some of them using his god powers. If he can -and he's a relatively weak New God- then… Any of Apokolips's great and powerful could do the same."

So he's been at it for at least a day or close to? I hope he's at least letting people clean up around him...

"That is a reasonable precaution."

"I'd also like you to do the same." She looks curious. "You know, one red penguin proves that red penguins exist, a million black and white ones doesn't prove that they don't…"

So just making sure that the one-in-a-million circumstance can't come up twice? Because if it turns out anyone with sufficiently 'divine' presence can subvert them... That's bad.

"If I remember your report on Minosyss correctly, then you seem to have better choices available to you. Their New Gods already proved that they could use Apokolipitan technology."

"That's even worse. Our best intelligence is that Grayven has a grand total of one Apokoliptian ship, and there's no sign that Apokolips is supplying him. But they might take an interest in Minosyss, and they're… Not in a position to deal with that. I might try badgering them if the fate of the universe was on the line, but… If it's… I don't like saying 'just Earth', but-."

Earth does come first in his calculations, since it's so much more vulnerable. And, to misquote, sort of: 'Over there has over there problems, and over there needs to take care of over there problems.'

She nods. "I understand. Their rulers should look to the interests of their own people first. I will agree to help test the system, but unless you have an excellent reason not to I will speak to Batman about it first."

"Not sure. I'll… Explain why I've gone from 'slightly concerned' to 'highly concerned' first, then… You decide."

Having Hephestaean poke it might also help, but the question is whether Batman would accept that.

"Very well."

"Have you read my report about the O.M.A.C. units the Karas and I fought?"

Hopefully he annotated in detail, and included critical observations.

"Yes. Jarvis Tetch was able to take control-."

"No. No. I'm not worried about mind control. Mind control happens. He's had mind control powers for years. I can mind control people, and I'm not that much of a hypocrite. The issue is that mind control doesn't let you turn people into robotic killing machines if they didn't have that capacity already."

Admittedly, Tetch has upgraded a bit, recently. But yes, there are questions of participant selection criteria to be asked.

She nods, looking sombre. "You believe that he simply activated it."

"Yes. And…" I sigh. How can I say this..? "Do you remember Olympia?"

"The version of me from the Crime Syndicate.." She nods, smiling faintly. "If I remember correctly, I make a worse criminal than I do a hero."

...As in comparatively poor at criminal acts (like a nice girl trying to be bad,) or excessively good at them (such as enthusiastically performing kneebreaking work?)

"Right, well… As a result of my contact with parallel universes-" That's true enough that it shouldn't ping her lie detector. "-I read a record where a version of Batman… Well, without wanting to get into some very personal things that don't apply here, that version of Batman build a powerful monitoring A.I. called Brother Eye. The A.I. went on to create a system for implanting nanotechnology into people which would convert them into remote controlled killer cyborgs exactly like those ones that it could use as a covert army."

I mean, worst case, you could claim the information acquisition happened during the meeting with your alternates. Saying one brought it up to you might be a stretch too far, but still...

"I take it that they did not remain inactive."

"No. And there ended up being a lot of those O.M.A.C.s. And I know that it's a bad idea to assume that things will go that way just because they did in a parallel universe, but it looks really similar."

No need to bring things like Crises and Events into it, of course. With any luck, this universe will never need to face one.

Diana considers that for a moment. "You believe that Batman is creating an army of killing machines whose free will he can completely subvert at will."

"I believe that it looks a lot like that's what's happening. I don't know for certain. Has he discussed the matter with you?"

And the important part is that Batman doesn't have to be the one subverting them. If someone can override their minds as easily as the Peace Agents' were...

"Not in detail." She regards me with curiosity. "Do you intend to ask me to avoid discussing it with him?"

"No. No. I-."

"You still feel guilty for altering his mind."

I rather think he'd prefer you do the asking. Less... Bad memories.

"I should feel guilty for doing that. Sometimes Agamemnon needs to sacrifice Iphigenia but he should not rest easily afterwards. I accept that. My problem is that I reversed it to the best of my ability afterwards… And he's still doing this. I don't know what I've done wrong! He basically told me that he redid it!"

Nice analogy, and entirely appropriate. And it is concerning that Bats has been behaving how he has.

"That would be in character-."

"But he shouldn't want to. He was happy being more cheerful, and it can't be a functionally crazy thing because that was something he did while Mannheim was ruling the Earth. I can't work out why-."

Maybe he felt he needed to. For the sake of the world, he'd sacrifice his own happiness in an instant, you know that.

Diana beckons me closer. I comply.

"What?"

Careful, I don't think a dope slap will help here.

She reaches across her desk, takes hold of my left hand and… Points to my ring.

Ah.

Yes, the idea that it might be something Ring-related never occurred to you, did it? Much as OL had issues with directing his Avarice early on... Perhaps Batman struggled with Fear even after the Incident.

"I… Maybe..? I gave it to him before I altered his thought processes, but he struggled to use it. Something might have happened to him once he activated it… Sinestro had already gone off the rails before he got his, but it's… Not impossible that his-. Part of his change in modus operandi was a result of his exposure to the yellow light… But Batman's been using fear as a tool for years. And the Yellow Lantern Citadelian I met didn't change that much. But it's…" I recover my hand. "It's possible."

There's a difference between using it intellectually, and having a direct tap into one-seventh of the Universe's emotions.

"I will remind Batman of the occasion during your training where we ordered you to forsake your ring for a week. Perhaps if he were separated from it for a time, he would recover."

"Maybe? Might be a good idea to ask Mister J'onzz to take a look, just in case Sinestro did something to the ring."

Preferably while he isn't wearing the Ring, I hope. Last thing he needs is a direct punch to the brain with an image of flames. Or worse, a front-row seat to Bruce's greatest fears.

"I will ask Batman if he will accept that. Without direct evidence of malfeasance on his part, I will not ask J'onn to force that upon him."

"No, that's fine. Perfectly reasonable. Ah… One other thing. Do you have any idea why the Peace Agents are so fixated on finding The Question?"

Ah, good, he hasn't forgotten that oddity.

She shakes her head. "No. Is he missing?"

"No. He's just avoiding Justice League affiliates. I'm not saying that we shouldn't do 'wellness checks' if there's a reason to believe that a person is in trouble, they've just been being weirdly insistent about him and there's no evidence that he's in trouble."

You think he's been avoiding affiliates. Has he left a message with anyone you've contacted to say that?

"I will raise that with Batman as well." She smiles. "Thank you for trusting me enough to speak with me about this."

I smile ruefully. "I can hardly complain about Batman being paranoid and then be just as paranoid right back, can I?"

For all we know, Bats wants the Question to act as a check against his worst fear-driven impulses? Something to pop up, smack him upside the head when he gets too dictator-y and disappear again...

So, then... An 'Alice'-related theme song, a statement of 'this is fine'... Is this going to be an episode of OL accepting that he can't stage-manage everyone and putting up with the realisation that other people have agency too? It's a lesson he seems to forget sometimes, that people can handle their shit without his aid, even if the results aren't always to his liking...

m_d · 2025-06-26T08:05:37+0100

Mr Zoat said:
"Yes. Jarvis Tetch was able to take control-."

'Jervis', I believe.

Mr Zoat · 2025-06-26T08:31:27+0100

Darko said:
"built"

m_d said:
'Jervis', I believe.

Thank you, corrected.

Stsword said:
Laze, you mistakenly commented in the story only thread.

You need to bring those corrections over here and delete your comment.

@Laze
Well done for getting rid of it so quickly, but I am happy to take correctiosn on this thread.

Smartkittykhan · 2025-06-26T11:24:20+0100

I find it interesting that Paul only seems to consider that he somehow failed to undo his alteration of Batman's mind to be the issue here.

One would think it is obvious the betrayal of trust is at the heart of things.
Especially considering that's exactly what led to the Brother Eye debacle.

Shotiegun11 · 2025-06-26T12:42:41+0100

All this does is annoy me. And make me wish the SI had zapped Batman back to normal AND taken the Yellow Ring back at that time. So that we aren't dealing with this same stuff years later.

Honestly, it was a requirement to save humanity and the Earth.

For all this stupid stuff, take the yellow ring, have a Controller factory reset his yellow light exposure to normal batman levels, mind wipe him back to the right post White Light stuff.

Then ask that Batman what he thinks about what he was currently doing.

With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

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