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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

9th April
06:11 GMT -5


"…deadlock in the UN, Senator Knight has called for the US to pursue its own policy separate from other world governments."
So, he came to a similar conclusion to Adam 'Captain Comet' Blake on the fact that separate nations could easily make their own arrangements with Manga khan? Remarkable.

Oh, that's a point.

I pause with my spoon part way from my porridge bowl to my mouth.
And it's caught OL quite off-guard, it seems...

I didn't even consider talking to the probable next president of the United States of America. But America has a pretty strong iconoclastic bent at the best of times, and if they stop bothering with the Security Council there's no way that the others will keep at it.

No… No.

I take another spoonful of porridge as I ruminate.
Ah, breakfast. A great time for casual thought on the oddest of things.

I need to let human civilisation make these decisions for themselves. Even if they make a bad one, the consequences are unlikely to be catastrophic and it will be good experience for when they have to deal with more dangerous alien parties.

I…
Unfortunately, Human governments are still in the 'these fellows in long underwear and capes seem to be on the ball, let's let them handle it.' phase...

I should talk to Cyprian about what King Orin was actually planning. I doubt that Orin will actually tell him, and him knowing that will hopefully take a good deal of bile out of the relationship. It did sound like something a well intentioned but surprisingly ignorant person might try, and I… Don't think it would make the population more likely to vote 'rejoin'. But it might make coming to sensible terms afterwards easier, and I think that trading with their neighbours would reduce tension-.
I doubt Kaldur's comment's last night were said in confidence either, so you're clear on that front to share them.

Except they don't need to trade with their neighbours. Given the distances and their history of self-sufficiency, there isn't really anything Venturia can get from anywhere else in Atlantis. Certainly nothing in terms of raw material or manufactured goods. King Orin would.. probably have been offering them access to the goods Poseidonis gets from the surface which Venturia can't-.
And so we're getting the same set-up the Renegade made with his Venturia, about six months to a year later.

Venturia has islands. Venturia's defence is nominally being undertaken by a alien merchant prince. Those islands are easily big enough for one of his prefabricated trading posts to be landed there. Venturia is-. I suppose will be a micronation rather than a world power, and even if they do become a bit more interested in the rest of the universe after this they're not going to be interested in dominating surface nations. But it would remove King Orin's carrot.
And let's be honest, this will make Aquaman want to yell at you... Does that make it a good plan?

Breakfast over, I clean my bowl, glass and spoon and float them back to their homes in the cupboards and drawer. Venturia is four hours ahead, so there shouldn't be any problem with me appearing. Fingers to

forehead

9th April
10:13 GMT -1
I do hope you didn't bust in on a council meeting...

and nod politely to the usher.

"Is the king available?"

"Certainly, sir. If you'll come this way?"
Ah, good. You had the sense to go through channels. This guy must be used to OL popping by now...

It's only a short walk to the room that serves at Venturia's cabinet office. Naturally, the room is shielded against as many forms of detection as they can defend against. I can't even see that there are people inside. Slightly unusually, it's underwater, because-.

"I hadn't thought about it before, but… The Venturian buildings with air pockets inside them. Is it just a matter of tradition or pride, or is it an overt reference to pre-sinking Atlantis?"
Or a case of practicality? Some things would be easier to do in air rather than water...

The usher waves his hand through the 'request attention' sensor.

"I hadn't really thought about it, sir."

"Because Teth Adom used to consider Queen Gamemnae a-"
Oooh, not a good name to drop... Isn't Gamemnae one of Atlantis' great evils in their history?

There's a slight twitch, which makes me wish I could remember that comic in more detail. Naturally, I've read up on the woman's history as much as possible, but that doesn't tell me anything about the cultural significance she has in modern Atlantean society.

"-friend, and the other potential reference in having air-filled rooms is her effort to return Atlantis to the surface."

"I.. don't think it's that, sir."
Yeah, context, OL. She is not thought of fondly, methinks.

There's a faint chime, and the usher regains his confidence. He pulls open the door and gestures towards the opening.

"In here, sir."

"Thank you."
The tempo of politeness. No announcing his name?

Unlike the British cabinet where the Prime Minister sits in the middle of one of the long edged, Cyprian very definitely sits at the head of the table. I.. half-recognise some of the other members, though we haven't been formally introduced. Archmage Thalia was part of the team that came with me to Tillettit, and General Megarios was more than a little interested in the potential military uses of orange power rings. He probably wouldn't make a bad Lantern, but he's more… Dox's sort than mine. There's no philosophical conundrum to resolve, aside from maybe his background desire to conquer Aurania to prove a point.
Yeah, that might disqualify him I think. Personal obsessions tend to get in the way of using Orange rings in any reasonable capacity...

I stop just before I reach the table and bow.

"Your majesty, honoured councillors."

"Illustres." Cyprian nods in acknowledgement. "I understand that King Orin will be sending a deputation to campaign here."
Though with what OL's about to drop, that may need to change...

"He has expressed that desire. How familiar are you with how surface world elections are conducted?"

"We are descended from surface-dwelling Greeks. The idea of public consultation isn't wholly lost on us."
Oof, that sarcasm. Thick enough to chew on.

"Yes, but the Greeks usually had a fairly limited suffrage. I would encourage you to-." I frown. "Actually, the precise terms of the ballot are something you should probably discuss directly with King Orin."

Cyprian nods. "If you don't mind acting as a go-between, I'm happy to meet him whenever it's convenient to him. And while I'd rather my cousin wasn't in attendance, I won't insist upon it."
Otherwise it might descend into a shouting match, and I doubt Orin wants that... Rather hard to get anything done, certainly.

"Right. I should probably warn you that not only am I not his favourite person in the world right now, his… Actual plan for preserving Atlantean unity wasn't as confrontational as you were assuming it was."

"What makes you think that?"
And finally someone's actually explaining things...

"I live with Kaldur'ahm. We had a… Fairly robust exchange of views at dinner last night, and according to him, King Orin's plan was to apply diplomatic pressure on you until you peacefully accepted Ptra."

Cyprian looks mildly puzzled. "I would never have done that. Quite apart from anything else it would be completely against Queen Clea's wishes."
In other words, 'hell no, that would never have worked.' Good to see people's estimations were correct.

"I know that and you know that but apparently King Orin didn't know that. And with the military option firmly off the table I think it might be wise for the two of you to have a slightly more expansive discussion, because whatever the outcome of the vote you're going to have to live with one another afterwards."

Cyprian meets the eyes of a few of his ministers before nodding to me.
Sounds like that's a tentative 'Good plan' from the council.

"It sounds as if that would be wise."

"In other news, the individual whom my Corps dispatched to guarantee your independence has arrived and is… In a way which is actually completely in keeping with my Corps' operating philosophy, expanding his mercantile interests to include Earth. Would you at all be interested in leasing one of your islands to him?"
If nothing else, the taxes gained from fees and levies (despite Manga Khan's complaints about them) will fill Venturia's coffers nicely...

I hold up my hands.

"To be completely clear, it's not at all conditional, you're not obliged to agree, but Poseidonis has become a lot richer as a result of trading with the surface and I thought that you might like the opportunity brought to your attention."
Hard to resist the lure of money. Especially for a city-state that's fairly independent of the Atlantean economy...

"It's worth investigating, I suppose. And it would be politic for me to meet with the Lantern in command anyway. How long will it take to arrange to speak with him?"

"Speaking with could be difficult. Being spoken to by him on the other hand is extremely easy."
True enough. Let's hope he's had his meds recently, too.

And finally some progress gets made on both plots. By twining them together. I suppose that's one way to do it. This is going to vex Poseidonis quite a bit though. Aquaman isn't going to be happy, I bet...
 
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The thing is from a detached perspective Venturia leaving is largely a formality. From King Orin's it's a major failure because to most people's minds losing territory is bad, and he wants to be a good king, good kingston't let bad things happen to their countries.

A bit simplistic, but frankly a lot of politics boils down to either juvenile posturing or simplistic ideas buried under miles of pageantry, obfuscation, and double talk.

Now this can't be the first problem that Aquaman inherited from previous monarchs, nature of bloodline royalty and all that. So why did this one have such a break down in how it was presented to the crown?
 
The thing is from a detached perspective Venturia leaving is largely a formality. From King Orin's it's a major failure because to most people's minds losing territory is bad, and he wants to be a good king, good kingston't let bad things happen to their countries.

A bit simplistic, but frankly a lot of politics boils down to either juvenile posturing or simplistic ideas buried under miles of pageantry, obfuscation, and double talk.

Or it could be because Orin has regularly fought world ending threats and wants all if Atlantis resources united in fighting those.
 
The thing is that it's already not contributing to that, Venturia has been only nominally Atlantean territory for decades. Given their entrenched position, forcing them to come to heel would likely be more resources lost than he could recoup from the ruins, for decades more at least.

Furthermore, due to needing to be self sufficient, odds are that Venturia's magical and unit composition contributions would be largely redundant in most cases.
 
"Politic" in the 4th to last sentence should be "polite", I believe
"It's worth investigating, I suppose. And it would be politic for me to meet with the Lantern in command anyway. How long will it take to arrange to speak with him?"
 
Now this can't be the first problem that Aquaman inherited from previous monarchs, nature of bloodline royalty and all that. So why did this one have such a break down in how it was presented to the crown?
Generations of bad advice and stubbornness.

"Politic" in the 4th to last sentence should be "polite", I believe
See the Dictionary.com page.


EDIT: Coincidentally (probably, because why would it be otherwise), I was eating porridge while reading this.
 
Zoat is the paragon going to meet Darkseid anytime in this story?
 
Or it could be because Orin has regularly fought world ending threats and wants all if Atlantis resources united in fighting those.
There is a very viable, and very British, potential middle ground that could be found on this point.

Suggest, at the negotiations regarding the vote, that the exit includes either an agreement to cooperate in defense against world-threatening (or even just ocean-threatening!) foes, should the need arise... or, to be more British about it, potentially to agree to a sort of Commonwealth system whereby, during times of existential crisis for the atlantean species, Venturia grants Poseidonis control over their military for the duration, much as the independent dominions in the British Commonwealth (Canada, Australia, New Zealand, etc.) grant the British monarch during wartime.

Basically, try to hammer out an agreement where the potential exit includes maintaining some loose ties that ensure that all of Atlantis's resources will remain united in fighting existential threats while granting Venturia independence in all other matters; this could be done in any number of different ways that might make it more palatable to Cyprian and his people--which should be negotiated in advance of the actual vote.

Indeed, such an agreement might even see Orin decide to reduce his rejoin campaign to a mere pro forma one, should that cover the majority of his tangible objections (as opposed to the potentially "bad optics" of a de jure loss of territory, even if it's been de facto lost for a long time). Combine that with arguments about the history of decolonization in the surface world (conveniently leaving out how badly it has gone in cases where there was a vote for it without a functioning local government already in place, since Venturia has such a government in place), and it might be possible for Orin to spin this into something that would actually be, eventually, celebrated rather than reviled...
 
Thank fuck for that. The way things are currently OL would just watch as he attacked Earth. Protecting from a hostile polity is more the local militaries job than his.

You do realise that he would protect Earth with everything he has if Apokalyps came knocking right?

Hopefully your Vaermina sickness will be cleared up soon.

If an alien invasion were to occur then he would help, especially considering the power Apokalyps has.

He is letting the various governments solve this because they have neglected to make solutions for decades and he doesn't want to coddle them.

The only two civilisations that would be able to survive Apokalyps are New Genesians and the Maltusians.

Earth doesn't have the power to fight Apokalyps, hell few do, but they do have the power to solve the Cluster Corp issue.
 
He is letting the various governments solve this because they have neglected to make solutions for decades and he doesn't want to coddle them.

Earth has had the ability to mass produce Speedsters for decades, has the ability to impliment large scale magical training centres for decades and so much more.

The only two civilisations that would be able to survive Apokalyps are New Genesians and the Maltusians.

See above. If Earth sorted their shit out they could throw back an invasion with minimal fuss. A million Flashes attacking in concert is a hell of a thing.

They didn't so they can't.


It's the exact same train of thought OL is applying the current situation but for some reason it's only applicable in one area but not another? Fucking bullshit. OL is just being a shit and throwing a hissy fit.
 
See above. If Earth sorted their shit out they could throw back an invasion with minimal fuss. A million Flashes attacking in concert is a hell of a thing.
The Flash can't fly. At all.

I know Apokoliptian attacks are usually depicted as 'boom tubes open, infantry come through', but they generally only fight like that because they don't care about their soldiers. If they actually wanted somewhere destroyed they could use a fleet.
 
Earth has had the ability to mass produce Speedsters for decades, has the ability to impliment large scale magical training centres for decades and so much more.



See above. If Earth sorted their shit out they could throw back an invasion with minimal fuss. A million Flashes attacking in concert is a hell of a thing.

They didn't so they can't.


It's the exact same train of thought OL is applying the current situation but for some reason it's only applicable in one area but not another? Fucking bullshit. OL is just being a shit and throwing a hissy fit.

Do remember that most of those governments thought that magic didn't exist until the Roanoke incident.

They didn't mass produce speedsters since they are not unified and if one nation tried that then others would and war could happen. Mutually assured destruction.

Speedsters are good on land, certainly, but in space, not so much. Apokalips can also bombard the planet.

Earth also doesn't have spaceships, aside from a few, like Starmans and the one Blake has, and that one needs a powerful telekinetic to use.

Apokalips also has powerful spaceships and they have been destroying powerful star spanning civilizations for quite possibly millions of years.

They managed to fight the GLC to a standstill. The Lanterns were probably not holding back and remember that a single Lantern is potentially capable of being a solar system level threat, or at least a planetary one, capable of taking on entire fleets if they are skilled enough.

Earth, even if it had a fleet, may not be able to sort out an invasion with minimal fuss and would most likely take some damage. Luthor's ship may have destroyed that guys ships in the renegade side, but I'm pretty sure that wasn't an invasion fleet and was just a bunch of ships sent to kill a woman and her baby. Apokalips has quite possibly the most powerful fleets in the galaxy, or one of the most powerful.

Once again OL doesn't want to handle all of Earths problems when the leaders can do that themselves. If it is a situation where they can't do it themselves, like fighting Apokalips, then he'll help.

He compared solving all of Earths problems to wiping the ass of a fully grown, mentally and physically healthy adult, something that is completely unnecessary when the individual in question can do it themselves.

Negotiating with someone like Khan is simple and easy in comparison to fighting off an army of Apokaliptians
 
The Flash can't fly. At all.
He can, however, throw rocks. And what is a rock thrown at near-light speed but a relativistic weapon? :p

Actually what would happen if the Flash threw a rock at super-speed within the context of this fic? Would it keep its momentum, abruptly slow down after he released it, or something in between?
 
also, in a potential conflict with Apokalypse, wouldnt the GLC be highly likely to intervene regardless of former agreements, given that the Life Entity is sleeping somewhere on earth, and given that the terminally insecure Tyrant attempting to anti-life the bloody thing (or the hundreds/thousands abarrent/schitzotech-equipped individuals on the planet) is one of those things unlikely to end well for anyone in...well, the galaxy......


....i get what some of the other's are Saying about OL-
my counterpoint to his excuse is that it WILL be his problem when his outright refusal to act begins complicating his future operations due to degraded trust/credibility-

and this very mindset is likely WHY the situation he's whining about (no formal plans/preparation for this form of contact/non-military sociatial disruption) has occurred-literally everyone else who's had the possibility suggested to has likely shrugged, said "not my problem, sod off!" and gone for a pint-and he already KNOWS there's someone with afterlife-warping clout fucking with perception/society in a way that would encourage said mindset-is HE infected now?

*sighs* regardless,its petty,shortsighted, and likely to blow up in his face mid-long term >.<
 
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He can, however, throw rocks. And what is a rock thrown at near-light speed but a relativistic weapon? :p
A good way of making your hand explode?
Actually what would happen if the Flash threw a rock at super-speed within the context of this fic? Would it keep its momentum, abruptly slow down after he released it, or something in between?
Not sure. Probably something in between.
 
also, in a potential conflict with Apokalypse, wouldnt the GLC be highly likely to intervene regardless of former agreements, given that the Life Entity is sleeping somewhere on earth, and given that the terminally insecure Tyrant attempting to anti-life the bloody thing (or the hundreds/thousands abarrent/schitzotech-equipped individuals on the planet) is one of those things unlikely to end well for anyone in...well, the galaxy......


....i get what some of the other's are Saying about OL-
my counterpoint to his excuse is that it WILL be his problem when his outright refusal to act begins complicating his future operations due to degraded trust/credibility-

and this very mindset is likely WHY the situation he's whining about (no formal plans/preparation for this form of contact/non-military sociatial disruption) has occurred-literally everyone else who's had the possibility suggested to has likely shrugged, said "not my problem, sod off!" and gone for a pint-and he already KNOWS there's someone with afterlife-warping clout fucking with perception/society in a way that would encourage said mindset-is HE infected now?

*sighs* regardless,its petty,shortsighted, and likely to blow up in his face mid-long term >.<

And who exactly is this everyone else? because if you include high level government strategists, leaders, and administrators, then yeah it was was and is their job to deal with foreign relations and trade. That's what is happening here. Comic King is a foreign corporate leader looking to establish trade with local suppliers. He's doing so within a close enough definition of legal that stopping him without being raging hypocrites would require going after most of the fortune 500. There are specifically people in governments whose job it is to deal with this sort of thing. Having OL take over would essentially be empowering him to act as the first and final arbiter of Earth's economic interactions with all extra terrestrial powers, if not all international trade period.
 
I notice several people have said that Apokalips is a galactic, not just a solar system, or Earth, problem. OK, yes, but aren't the New Gods tied into the Source Wall, which is something which applies to the whole Universe, not just the local galaxy? And, there's trillions of galaxies in our universe?

So, rather a big problem. Yes, Space is Big. :)
 
I notice several people have said that Apokalips is a galactic, not just a solar system, or Earth, problem. OK, yes, but aren't the New Gods tied into the Source Wall, which is something which applies to the whole Universe, not just the local galaxy? And, there's trillions of galaxies in our universe?

So, rather a big problem. Yes, Space is Big. :)
I think canonically the universe is much smaller in the DC universe.
 
The universe could be smaller in DC comics.

I also remember that in the n52 Apokalips was a multiversal conquering empire, so they are certainly a very big threat.
 
Low Politics (part 18)
9th April
13:24 GMT


"Lord-Lantern Manga Khan, this is-."

His head jerks around.

"Who?"

"M'lord, 'Lord-Lantern Manga Khan' was the name which you chose to be identified with while dealing with the planet Earth."

"It was?"

"If you've changed your mind, m'lord, you have merely to inform me and I will ensure that everyone whom you informed of your initial choice of name is also informed that you've changed it."

"Did I tell you why I chose 'Lord-Lantern Manga-. HAHAHAHA!"

"What?"

"HEHOOHAHA!"

There's an electrical… Huffing noise.

"I just worked it out. I'm a wit."

"Y.. es." Thalia is giving me a decidedly sceptical look. "I need to talk to you about the reason why you're here."

"Well, sometimes, two clouds of vapour impregnated with exotic particles are exposed to an electrical discharge, which results in the spontaneous-."

"No. No. The reason why you're here on Earth, as opposed to wherever you were when Vril Dox contacted you."

"Oh, the defence contract. I handed that off to our actualisation team, and they're eagerly awaiting contact from our client!"

"Are the people on your actualisation team members of the Orange Lantern Corps?"

"Spiritually?"

"Legally. De jure. Do they have orange power rings?"

"I don't know. They might. L-Ron, do-?"

"Lantern Khan, I'm-"

"Lord and Manga."

"-afraid that while I don't have any right to instruct you in how to carry out your commercial business, I am empowered to check up on how you perform as an Orange Lantern. Dox gave you the orders, and you alone are responsible for ensuring that they are carried out."

L-Ron floats a little closer. "Sensor scans revealed no combat taking place in the area indicated in Clarissi Dox's information packet."

"Did that information packet also mention that Atlantean weapons are usually magic-based, and therefore don't show up reliably on regular sensors?"

Manga Khan puts his right fist to his chin.

"It.. may have..?"

"Did you read it? Dox is usually very thorough. I'm sure that it would have been very helpful."

"I.. skimmed it."

"Lantern Khan, several-"

"Lord and Manga."

"-million people made a contract with NEMO. You were tasked as our primary delivery agent. And you're telling me that you've not.. made.. any attempt to deliver. You personally had one obligation here, and you have not undertaken to discharge it. I'm afraid that I'm going to have to insist that you prioritise it."

"Sigh."

"I hope that's a 'sigh, yes'."

"None of our security units are specialised for aquatic combat. I thought it most likely that a species like humans would not dare assume that the ClusterShip was not capable of intervening in this conflict and that its presence would be nearly as much of a disincentive to hostile action as the confirmed presence of the capacity, while being less harmful to any civil negotiations than an open display of martial power."

"I agree with your assessment. But that still means that you prioritised ClusterCorp trading operations over reassuring a NEMO stakeholder. At the very least, you should have personally visited King Cyprian to assure him that we were prepared to back our words. As things stand, the only NEMO assets in this system are you and me, which means that if open warfare did commence the two of us would be obliged to go down there in person."

He throws his left arm out to the side, and presses his right hand into his face plate.

"You're right! I neglected the most basic principles of customer service! I am shame!"

"I'm glad that you recognise your oversight." I step aside as he collapses to his knees. "This is Archmage Thalia. She's here on behalf of the government of Venturia. She will be able to provide you with more specifics on the situation, and inform you what the Venturian government expects from us."

I crouch down so that I'm on his level.

"I expect you to prioritise this."

"I WILL EXPUNGE MY SHAME WITH ULTRA-PLATINUM LEVELS OF CUSTOMER SERVICE!"

I stand, and… Thalia looks even less certain.

"He's actually very good at his job. He just gets a bit overenthusiastic about some aspects of it sometimes."

"IF I HAD FLESH I WOULD REND IT!"

L-Ron extrudes a manipulator arm to pat his master on the helmet.

"There there, m'lord."

"I'm going to leave you in his care while I relay King Cyprian's message to King Orin."

Less certain still.

"I'll be back in an hour at the latest."

I raise my right hand to my forehead, and don't miss her sketching a sensory mandala in the air as I do it.

9th April
11:27 GMT -2


I hold up King Cyprian's letter as the guards at the Poseidonis royal palace level their sonic impellers at me.

"I'm serving as King Cyprian's herald at the moment. Is High King Orin at home, or should I try the Hall of Justice?"

They lower their guns, without any obvious reluctance. I suppose there's a good chance that the exact state of relations with Venturia hasn't really percolated through wider Atlantean society quite yet.

The detail's leader swims forwards slightly.

"Please come with me, Orange Lantern. If King Orin isn't available, someone else will be able to receive you."

"Thank you. Very kind."
 
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"-afraid that while I don't have any right to instruct you in how to carry out your commercial business, and am empowered to check up
Change "and" to "I".

"None of our security units are specialised for aquatic combat. I though it most likely that
Change "though" to "thought".

As things stand, the only NEMO assets in this system are you and me, which means that it open warfare did commence
Change "it" to "if".
 
He throws his left arm out to the side, and presses his right hand into his face plate.

"You're right! I neglected the most basic principles of customer service! I am shame!"

"I'm glad that you recognise your oversight." I step aside as he collapses to his knees. "This is Archmage Thalia. She's here on behalf of the government of Venturia. She will be able to provide you with more specifics on the situation, and inform you what the Venturian government expects from us."

I crouch down so that I'm on his level.

"I expect you to prioritise this."

"I WILL EXPUNGE MY SHAME WITH ULTRA-PLATINUM LEVELS OF CUSTOMER SERVICE!"

I stand, and… Thalia looks even less certain.

"He's actually very good at his job. He just gets a bit over enthusiastic about some aspects of it sometimes."

"IF I HAD FLESH I WOULD REND IT!"
Hehehe, at least that is more than more customer service representatives would do.
 

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