With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

BlackCoat13 · Sep 26, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
"Is it lave proof?"

lava

BlueMangoAdea · Sep 26, 2023

Huh. And now he doesn't need to carry a lantern anymore. Neat.

Ngamer11 · Sep 26, 2023

BlueMangoAdea said:
Huh. And now he doesn't need to carry a lantern anymore. Neat.

That might only apply to metaphysical or mystical locations.

Cuchulin · Sep 26, 2023

The Olympian Mythos survives so well because it is so much a part of Western Civilization, the name of those gods and their stories are retold or reread thousand of times everyday across the world. Also the Olympian gods are mostly just so dang human.

Vaermina · Sep 26, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
Just outside the-. Ooooh. It's actually a little easier to see things here without straining. No, no, not the desires of individual people. I want to see the distortion left by an object, things not tied to a particular person or mindset. A device that used to cage the Ophidian. There are Kon's desires and Cernunnos's desires and Tlaltecuhtli's desires and pull out pull out pull all the way out. There's the whole of the orange but it doesn't all flow from the desires of individuals. Behind that, there's the desires of groups, species, things existing beyond the individual. But aside from that, there are structures which emerge from the thing itself…

I reach out with my right hand and touch my ring to the structure.

This is my cause, this is my fight,
Shine through the void with orange light,
I've claimed all within my sight,
To keep what is mine, that is my right.

Something moves, and the previously empty ring becomes full again as I return to the realm of the gods and toss Kon a replacement kinetic barrier.

"Is it lave proof?"

"Try swallowing it."

He snorts, then we both rise into the air and head after Tlaltecuhtli.

How quickly he forgets his ring is infected with Anti Life.

crazygrox · Sep 26, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
This should be doable. I recreated Larfleeze's ring from pure avarice because it had existed for so long that it imprinted on in. My personal lantern has only been orange for a couple of years, but the orange light fountain has existed about as long as his ring. Not sure if Hinon dismantled it as part of building the Orange Central Power Battery, but the imprint should still be there.

I make a fist with my right hand and raise it slightly, contemplating the ring.

And it should be tied to this ring.

Just outside the-. Ooooh. It's actually a little easier to see things here without straining. No, no, not the desires of individual people. I want to see the distortion left by an object, things not tied to a particular person or mindset. A device that used to cage the Ophidian. There are Kon's desires and Cernunnos's desires and Tlaltecuhtli's desires and pull out pull out pull all the way out. There's the whole of the orange but it doesn't all flow from the desires of individuals. Behind that, there's the desires of groups, species, things existing beyond the individual. But aside from that, there are structures which emerge from the thing itself…

I reach out with my right hand and touch my ring to the structure.

This is my cause, this is my fight,
Shine through the void with orange light,
I've claimed all within my sight,
To keep what is mine, that is my right.

Something moves, and the previously empty ring becomes full again

It does occur to me to wonder whether the disappearance of his lantern might have something to do with it maybe being the Starheart/the Guardians' having sealed the universe's magic into it.

Is he actually tapping his lantern despite it not being present, or is he inadvertently replicating the kind of recharge which Lantern Priest would use?

Lord Ernest · Sep 26, 2023

The Nordic and Egyptian Mythos are probably in the same category within the Western Civilization's conciousness. We have been so curious and interested in those stories that we haven't let them go. I literally know someone named Osiris, who doesn't know the name Thor. The Olympians (and their Roman equivalents) are ahead and more well known probably by virtue of the Roman Empire and their Greek fetishism (they might as well have been Greek weebs); that empire is the basis upon which the Western World is built.

Other mythologies are more fringe curiosities, even though they might be as or even more interesting. From the Slavic all the way to Incan, if you aren't interested in that type of stuff you probably haven't even heard of those gods. But, theoretically speaking, in this universe they exist (or existed).

The Froggy Ninja · Sep 26, 2023

Darko said:
So Manheim is behind this.

Or maybe his clone security is as much of a joke as Arkham's.

Chojin Patriarch · Sep 26, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
17th February 2013
16:58 GMT

As the only full human on the shore, I should probably field that.

"When we first found you, oh glorious one, your heart was missing from your chest! You attacked us quite vigorously!"

Now, let's hope they consider that state 'not as intended', or we may see them get offended that OL shoved a brand new one in there. And then they're back to square one, fighting an angry Earth deity with decidedly depleted supplies.

"What do you mean, my heart was missing?!"

"Looked like someone cut it out, magnificence!" I start walking closer as she stares down at me. "We could see your lungs!"

Generally a state for concern for anyone not on an autopsy table. And maybe even then, if they wake up on it...

"My heart is in my chest."

"No, that's a new heart I made! I've got no idea where your original one is!"

Hopefully they don't get any ideas about having him make more to consume. Though fortunately, I suspect the more important part is the spiritual link the heart has to the sacrificed...

Her unusual facial structure makes it a little hard to decipher her mood, and she's clearly having a nasty shock. But she isn't smashing me for my lies, so I'm going to assume that she's at least accepting it as plausible. I could ask her what made the wound in her chest, as that would help with the sheeda and the creatures assailing Themyscira. But that's probably a bit confrontational.

"Might I ask your name!?"

Good, let's see how close my earlier (Googled) guess was.

"Do you think I am some minor goddess, whose name can just slip your memory?!"

"I worship the gods of Olympus, divinity. I am far from my homeland, and their place of power. I probably never learned it."

...Relatively speaking, given the presence of Themyscira. Though I suspect the Olympians aren't in contact with the island right now anyway.

"Then know that I am Tlaltecuhtli! Goddess of Earth and all the life that springs from it!"

I roll my eyes at that-. And Kon catches them and shakes his head. Yes, I had realised that now isn't the time for comparative theology. This blood-fuelled earth goddess might be the Aztec version of Demeter but she certainly isn't Gaea. I just realise that calling her out on her creative advertising wouldn't help the situation.

...Got it!

And since it appears this is the feminine form of said ambiguous deity, time for me to stop calling her 'They'.

She crouches slightly, her right arm dropping down to tear rocks from the ground, a load that she pushes into the hole in her chest. The rock then spreads across the injury, merging with her flesh to create a patch. It's not the same colour as the rest of her skin, but it appears to be functional.

Heh. Like molding fresh clay. Though given that she is the Earth in these parts, it's more like licking a scratch...

I wonder. If we accept that the Olympian mythos survives so well because they're drawing power from the chained titans, who are too fundamental to the human part of the Dream to ever fully fade, that makes them more powerful and more coherent than the gods of other dead or dying religions. As for the rest… I don't know. I remember reading in Hellblazer that the gods of dead religions don't get weaker, but Bast herself said that her realm was in decay without humans at least thinking of them. Maybe it's the realm? Or the human-comprehensible parts of the god rather than the core self?

Hmm... An interesting theory. A pity analysing and experimenting on it would be a very long-term project. Like, multiple millennia long.

Or maybe Hellblazer was wrong, or John was dishonest?

No, can't be.

Wow, might need one of the Goddeses' knives to cut that sarcasm, it's so thick.

"Do you require our assistance any further, oh Goddess of Earth?"

Might not have been wise to draw attention to the fact that she needed mortal help, but unless she feels like sharing what happened to her there isn't anything she can do to help us solve the case.

Since she seems the mercurial type, prone to mood-swings that can end in literal bloody murder...

I think she's thinking about it, but then she spots Themyscira on the horizon.

"Why is that here?"

Good question. And one well overdue for an answer.

"Don't know. We were about to find out. They're being attacked by humans who have had their hearts torn out-."

"I will deal with them."

Yes, that would be helpful. They're likely to be rather resilient.

She stamps towards the misty sea, the stone causeway which Kon obliterated reforming to take her huge footfall and weight.

Kon ambles over, careful to keep Tlaltecuhtli in view.

Definitely a good idea. Just in case either she has a change of mind, or a literal change of heart.

"It worked."

"Good work with the heart massage."

I suspect it was more of a 'heart shoulder-barge' given its size. Like, full-on body checks.

He snorts. "Good work with the heart."

"That wasn't the hard bit." I look around. "Cernunnos? Are you around?"

Ah, did he run off again? That prey instinct working overtimes at just the wrong moment.

There's a faint shimmer at the tree line and Cernunnos stalks out, keeping an eye on Tlaltecuhtli.

"You may have saved her from enchantment, but she still eats hearts."

Well, hopefully she's not feeling peckish right this moment.

"I haven't forgotten, but we're in the land of the Aztec gods. They all do it, and we're going to have to deal with them. Would you mind flying to Themyscira and letting them know we're here?"

"What's wrong with you?"

Afraid they'll shoot you down like a goose in season?

"Ring's dead. Kon, what's your damage?"

Kon pulls the melted remains of his kinetic belt off his suit. The suit is thin enough to be protected by his organic force field, but the belt extends outside of that.

I'm betting he's looking a little flushed, though. Unless his Kryptonian side is starting to come on strong.

"Fine, apart from the belt. Are you having trouble recharging?"

I raise my left fist and tap it against a personal lantern that isn't there.

Unfortunately, short of integrating a Lantern into his personal armour, there's not many options to avoid that.

"Yes. I'll need a moment. Please keep watch."

He nods, doing a quick check of our perimeter.

Hopefully whatever you're planning is something you can do while walking.

"Oh, and in case you missed it, her chest could absorb the orange light, so there's probably another-."

"One of your clones-" He nods. "-with its heart cut out."

"Just so. Okay."

How many were there in total? We've seen one turned into a suicide Anti-Life delivery package... Can't be too many more for Mannheim to fool around with.

This should be doable. I recreated Larfleeze's ring from pure avarice because it had existed for so long that it imprinted on in. My personal lantern has only been orange for a couple of years, but the orange light fountain has existed about as long as his ring. Not sure if Hinon dismantled it as part of building the Orange Central Power Battery, but the imprint should still be there.

I make a fist with my right hand and raise it slightly, contemplating the ring.

And it should be tied to this ring.

And since this is a mystical realm, the laws of Contagion and Sympathy should resonate strongly through it.

Just outside the-. Ooooh. It's actually a little easier to see things here without straining. No, no, not the desires of individual people. I want to see the distortion left by an object, things not tied to a particular person or mindset. A device that used to cage the Ophidian. There are Kon's desires and Cernunnos's desires and Tlaltecuhtli's desires and pull out pull out pull all the way out. There's the whole of the orange but it doesn't all flow from the desires of individuals. Behind that, there's the desires of groups, species, things existing beyond the individual. But aside from that, there are structures which emerge from the thing itself…

And I bet there's a definite structure to the flows of energy. A certain double ring with fang-like spokes...

I reach out with my right hand and touch my ring to the structure.

This is my cause, this is my fight,
Shine through the void with orange light,
I've claimed all within my sight,
To keep what is mine, that is my right.

Let's hope that didn't set off any alarms around the Central orange Power Battery. Or Hinon's going to have to ~~yell~~ grump at him again.

Something moves, and the previously empty ring becomes full again as I return to the realm of the gods and toss Kon a replacement kinetic barrier.

"Is it lave proof?"

Well, looks like it worked. Wonder if it's possible for him to do that in the material universe, or is it just because this realm abuts the Dreaming tangentially?

"Try swallowing it."

He snorts, then we both rise into the air and head after Tlaltecuhtli.

I doubt it would work that well from inside. Especially if it uses emitters to project the field. Be a bit of a gut-ache.

Again, just saying: I worked out who she was on her first appearance.

Google was surprisingly able to work with 'toad-like Aztec Goddess'. That aside... Now that she's pacified (for now) and OL has his Rings back up and running, what's the bet things on Themyscira will be not as they expect to find them? Given that it was ground zero for a Constantine plan, considering that even the most altruistic rarely work well.

Cuchulin · Sep 26, 2023

Lord Ernest said:
The Nordic and Egyptian Mythos are probably in the same category within the Western Civilization's conciousness. We have been so curious and interested in those stories that we haven't let them go. I literally know someone named Osiris, who doesn't know the name Thor. The Olympians (and their Roman equivalents) are ahead and more well known probably by virtue of the Roman Empire and their Greek fetishism (they might as well have been Greek weebs); that empire is the basis upon which the Western World is built.
Other mythologies are more fringe curiosities, even though they might be as or even more interesting. From the Slavic all the way to Incan, if you aren't interested in that type of stuff you probably haven't even heard of those gods. But, theoretically speaking, in this universe they exist (or existed).

The Slavs were probably at least as well off if not better than the Nordic and Olympian ones until the early 20th century, the Incans are also likely fairly well off given how recently they had an entire Empire of worshippers and how hard it would have been to full convert all of the people of the Andeans to what the Spanish would consider proper Catholic Christianity.

Lord Ernest · Sep 26, 2023

Cuchulin said:
The Slavs were probably at least as well off if not better than the Nordic and Olympian ones until the early 20th century, the Incans are also likely fairly well off given how recently they had an entire Empire of worshippers and how hard it would have been to full convert all of the people of the Andeans to what the Spanish would consider proper Catholic Christianity.

I don't know about the Slavic Mythos. Russia and eastern Europe has been as roman influenced as the west, if not more. How long has the Orthodox Church been an influence there? I'm not saying they're forgotten, but as prevalent in the human consciousness as the Nordic or even the Olympians?

The Incan is somewhat similar, their traditions and stories are probably still alive, especially with the Quechua people being as well spread. But you can bet that the Catholics were thorough in the conversion. Indigenous people strive to maintain their culture and pass on as much of their traditions as they can, but I've never met or heard of one that wasn't as Catholic as they come. So the Gods are not forgotten but, same thing, they're not much of a known factor in our collective consciousness.

crazygrox said:
It does occur to me to wonder whether the disappearance of his lantern might have something to do with it maybe being the Starheart/the Guardians' having sealed the universe's magic into it.

I don't believe the Starheart has been a thing here. The Illustres' Lantern was Alan's, but it's just a normal Green Lantern that got converted to Orange. Alan's shtick here is that he got a Green Power Ring with the attached Lantern, but the systems were damaged remotely by the Guardians for some crime the previous user committed. I don't think he had a wood weakness, for example, or any particular association with magic.

Duke Long · Sep 26, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
I recreated Larfleeze's ring from pure avarice because it had existed for so long that it imprinted on in.

'on it'?

Chaoswind · Sep 26, 2023

Lord Ernest said:
I don't know about the Slavic Mythos. Russia and eastern Europe has been as roman influenced as the west, if not more. How long has the Orthodox Church been an influence there? I'm not saying they're forgotten, but as prevalent in the human consciousness as the Nordic or even the Olympians?

The Incan is somewhat similar, their traditions and stories are probably still alive, especially with the Quechua people being as well spread. But you can bet that the Catholics were thorough in the conversion. Indigenous people strive to maintain their culture and pass on as much of their traditions as they can, but I've never met or heard of one that wasn't as Catholic as they come. So the Gods are not forgotten but, same thing, they're not much of a known factor in our collective consciousness.

I don't believe the Starheart has been a thing here. The Illustres' Lantern was Alan's, but it's just a normal Green Lantern that got converted to Orange. Alan's shtick here is that he got a Green Power Ring with the attached Lantern, but the systems were damaged remotely by the Guardians for some crime the previous user committed. I don't think he had a wood weakness, for example, or any particular association with magic.

That is a self fulfilled cycle. You are far more likely to interact with westernized people of these cultures because they are westernized, thus your perception on religious statistics comes far more skewed as a result.

During this episode Paul already mentioned a fragtion of Khandah population being passive practitioners is already enough to breath new life into their gods, thus by that metric the other pantheons are more than fine, passive interest, syncretism and rural conservative populations should be enough.

Enough for their backyards and places of power at least.

Cuchulin · Sep 26, 2023

Lord Ernest said:
I don't know about the Slavic Mythos. Russia and eastern Europe has been as roman influenced as the west, if not more. How long has the Orthodox Church been an influence there? I'm not saying they're forgotten, but as prevalent in the human consciousness as the Nordic or even the Olympians?

From what I have read/heard the cults of a few Slavic deities such as Mokosh survived among Russian peasants/serfs until the early 20th century. Also some beings like Baba Yaga and Ded Moroz will be far, far better off than the rest.

Lord Ernest said:
The Incan is somewhat similar, their traditions and stories are probably still alive, especially with the Quechua people being as well spread. But you can bet that the Catholics were thorough in the conversion. Indigenous people strive to maintain their culture and pass on as much of their traditions as they can, but I've never met or heard of one that wasn't as Catholic as they come. So the Gods are not forgotten but, same thing, they're not much of a known factor in our collective consciousness.

It can be very hard to convert people when their villages are in remote/hard to get to parts of one of the world's tallest mountain ranges.

GhostKing 666 · Sep 26, 2023

Lord Ernest said:
The Nordic and Egyptian Mythos are probably in the same category within the Western Civilization's conciousness.

The Nordic less than you think. Mainly because, despite actually having a written language, the norse didn't actually write their myths down. Outside of a heavily biased and fragmentary roman account, all we have on the norse myths comes from two different collection of short stories written a few centuries after the Christianization of Scandinavia(one of which was written by a guy trying to achieve a political goal at that). I mean, just look at Loki.

We don't even know what Loki is the god of.

Mr Zoat · Sep 26, 2023

Duke Long said:
'on it'?

Darko said:
"it lava proof"

Thank you, corrected.

Lord Ernest · Sep 26, 2023

Chaoswind said:
That is a self fulfilled cycle. You are far more likely to interact with westernized people of these cultures because they are westernized, thus your perception on religious statistics comes far more skewed as a result.

During this episode Paul already mentioned a fragtion of Khandah population being passive practitioners is already enough to breath new life into their gods, thus by that metric the other pantheons are more than fine, passive interest, syncretism and rural conservative populations should be enough.

Enough for their backyards and places of power at least.

I concede that, but it still means that those believes end up being minor, not as well known or just academic subjects in some circles. It doesn't equate to the widespread knowledge of the Olympian pantheon, which is whom we are comparing those myths to.

Cuchulin said:
From what I have read/heard the cults of a few Slavic deities such as Mokosh survived among Russian peasants/serfs until the early 20th century. Also some beings like Baba Yaga and Ded Moroz will be far, far better off than the rest.

It can be very hard to convert people when their villages are in remote/hard to get to parts of one of the world's tallest mountain ranges.

Baba Yaga and Ded Moroz I understand. But we are comparing the prevalence of these Mythos with the Olympians, with whom the Illustres is comparing the Aztec pantheon as well. I'm not advocating against their presence or power, just their spread in the general subconscience.

In this story, the Gods are probably fine. Just because they don't have any or as many worshipers are they weak. But Gods are a product of belief, born from the Dream. The more well known or remembered, the more solid or powerful their presence is. Zeus is a douche, but he isn't in any danger of getting forgotten in comparison to Perun, for example, I should think.

Vaermina · Sep 26, 2023

The Froggy Ninja said:
Or maybe his clone security is as much of a joke as Arkham's.

It was a bigger joke.

He had them just sitting in pods in orbit.

boo600 · Sep 26, 2023

Coda said:
Even a low-end god is still a god. They have an always-active "Wholeness Rightly Assumed" effect constantly bringing their physical form in line with their self-image.

So yeah, Kon is tough but he's only blessed, not deific himself.

There was a discussion, a while ago, about Baby Kryptonians and how often they end up ruling over the New Gods. Most NG aren't comparable to Kryptonians; I'm not sure just how far above average Canis is, or where the 'baselines' are, but remember that Zatanna ended up Squishy as a New God (human physicality), and even Dannered strength would mean that Artemis would have had much more trouble with her Arrow and Stealth tricks.

I suppose that Canis (artist or no) has few arcane tricks beyond the God Speech and its domain applications, so he may have merely focused on Physicality, but I'm not sure quite how strong that makes him, growing up on Apocalips and all. Or what his other options are. Hm.

Patrick Holt · Sep 26, 2023

The Froggy Ninja said:
Or maybe his clone security is as much of a joke as Arkham's.

Vaermina said:
It was a bigger joke.

He had them just sitting in pods in orbit.

Mr Zoat said:
"It looks like the Justifiers sent some people to your place in Bir Tawil. I think maybe you should take a look at it."

Mr Zoat said:
This is a trade post which I upgraded slightly to be more suited for long term habitation. It was never precisely a fortress. But it has-. Had force fields and automated weapons of varying degrees of lethality. It.. technically still has armour that should turn aside most Earth-built anti-armour weapons.

Mr Zoat said:
The outer defences escalate to human-lethal, but they start at 'stun'. Or… It's possible that they interact with the Anti-Life in a way that causes more damage. There aren't all that many long-term Anti-Life exposure cases off Apokolips itself. We're probably going to be a gold mine for researchers.

Mr Zoat said:
"One of the purple rays is gone. Parts of the computer have been carefully removed and taken. Three cloning tanks and my three backup bodies have also been removed."

Now he does have a pod in space, around a planet with a lot of New Gods that owe him a favor.

Mr Zoat said:
Back into the sky, and up I go. Transitioning somewhere like this -particularly when we're going to mess around with the local thaumosphere- wouldn't be a good idea. But I can fly bloody quick when properly motivated. And as I go I begin using my rings to fabricate a suspended animation pod, manoeuvring thrusters and a new adult clone body for myself. Okay, out of the atmosphere, and looking at my own inanimate face like this stopped being strange after the second time. Add a beacon so that no one flies into it, and my spare ring in case I need to go into action right away. Make sure that it's got the velocity to stay in orbit for at least a few days… Yes, good.

Rereading Fleet Traction 15 I came across this,

Mr Zoat said:
Because in the normal run of things… I mean, if she were a normal woman, Rhea's soul would be in Karrakan's thaumosphere. Unless the place was thaumically dead, in which case it would stay put until it got here. But if her body incarnating made it a manifestation of her soul… Does she just stay… Recumbent? Unalive?

We need to find some minor gods no one will miss.

Well, if the Aztec gods are going to be a problem I think we just found his ~~victims~~, ~~test subjects~~ ~~guinea pigs~~. There is no good way to say I want to kill you for science is there?

Stsword · Sep 26, 2023

boo600 said:
There was a discussion, a while ago, about Baby Kryptonians and how often they end up ruling over the New Gods. Most NG aren't comparable to Kryptonians; I'm not sure just how far above average Canis is, or where the 'baselines' are, but remember that Zatanna ended up Squishy as a New God (human physicality), and even Dannered strength would mean that Artemis would have had much more trouble with her Arrow and Stealth tricks.

I suppose that Canis (artist or no) has few arcane tricks beyond the God Speech and its domain applications, so he may have merely focused on Physicality, but I'm not sure quite how strong that makes him, growing up on Apocalips and all. Or what his other options are. Hm.

Zoat's New Gods are his Exalted homebrew.

And Exalted become more powerful as their Essence score increases, translated here as mana absorption.

Hence Gravy building mana gathering bracelets to speed up New God growth, which work kind of like Paul's soul tattoos.

A New God's power level would be rate of mana absorption multiplied by time plus possibly different rate of mana absorption multiplied by time spent under those circumstances, repeat as necessary.

Edit- Barring some other way to pump up their power. Darkseid probably got some Essence points out of his ALE fragments, for example.

Mr Zoat · Sep 27, 2023

17th February 2013
17:00 GMT

I watch from a little way back as P-.

I wince as the world shimmers. Out of curiosity I asked Scott about the level of arcane force it would take to make a New God as strong as me feel faint, and apparently it would be easier to crack the moon in half. To deliver that amount of energy without any detectable sign that it was being delivered is something he'd assumed would be impossible until I demonstrated it in his workshop. He didn't have any idea how it could be done, and Kanto…

Kanto expressed a mild interest in learning how to use something like that for assassinations, but he's happy working as a history lecturer so I think that it's best to leave him to it. In the fullness of time his god-name will drive him to expand his horizons, but we live indefinitely so there's no sense in hounding him or leading him astray. Something that Darkseid has never learned.

Anyway, the boy is standing next to the rock cairn that marks the resting place of the material remains of his mother. I honestly thought that he'd want to avoid ever coming back here, then I got a notification that someone opened a boom tube here. I opened one as well, and I'm not using any sort of stealth system, so he knows that I'm here.

I haven't really talked about this with them. I mean, they all know perfectly well what happened… If you ask them about it. But I think that the younger ones are mostly forgetting what it was like.

He hasn't. Clearly.

I take a couple of steps closer. Just a reminder that I'm here for him if he needs anything. I don't have much planned for today, and it's nothing I prioritise above the emotional needs of my eldest son.

He looks around. His expression is… Thoughtful? Pensive?

"Do you know where father's remains are?"

I shake my head. "No. To the best of my knowledge he died on the mainland, and the people who killed him had the knowledge to properly dispose of a vampire's remains. Most likely, they burned the body and buried small parts of the ash at a dozen different crossroads."

I could ask John Constantine about it, but I think it's probably better to let the matter lie. I have a small concern about the possibility of him getting back up, but John killed the king of the vampires years ago and he hasn't put in an appearance since. And I haven't seen Dracula either, so I'm going to assume that them getting back up isn't a simple matter of spilling a few drops of blood, if they can at all.

"What..? What would have happened if they hadn't caught him?"

"Difficult to say."

He gives his head a small shake. "I know he was a murderer. You don't need to protect me from it."

"I don't know the details of his life. Yes, he killed at least one woman locally, but that could have been-."

"Please."

I sigh, nodding. "Based on what little I know, he would keep preying on the local people using mesmerism to avoid raising the alarm. Given the relatively low number of deaths, it seems likely that he was doing that as a strategy, and given that your blood-siblings are all full-siblings I would guess that your mother was feeding exclusively from him. I imagine that once you were a little older he would have begun teaching you hunting techniques…"

Hm.

"What follows there depends how good a strategist he was. It would be almost inevitable that you and the others would kill a few people during your earliest feeding attempts, so remaining in a rural location would be unwise as there wouldn't be any way to cover up the fact that something wasn't right."

"We.. can't hold back."

I regard him levelly. "Couldn't hold back. You and the younger ones have focused well on your lessons."

"No-." He nods. "Yes, but we wouldn't have been able to hold back. If we'd stayed with them."

"There wasn't any way for him to have known that. Vampires get hungry, but they don't usually get overwhelmed by the need as you do. If they're hungry, then they're hungry all the time, whereas you don't experience hunger unless exposed to something that you can eat. Succubae and incubi experience even less compulsion."

And we can't test whether or not the children could be fed enough to grant them mental clarity in their bestial state. Some combinations just don't work well.

"Do you..? Remember being hungry while your father was alive?"

He looks down for a moment, then shakes his head. "No."

I nod. "Then making sure that you stayed full would probably be enough. They would probably move to a city, somewhere with a high murder rate so that they could conceal your early feedings. And hopefully where they could enthral a teacher to get you a basic education."

"Then they would have to either hope that you would snap out of it after feeding, or move to a war zone. Depending on how many children they had in total, they might have escaped notice for a while or they might get the attention of the Justice League. Between that and a child's natural inclination to follow their parents' example, it is unlikely that you would have questioned it."

He nods solemnly.

"Why did they do it? Miss Gloria lives around humans. She lived around humans before you got her a new body."

"Why.. everything? I can only guess. Binding herself to a human body effectively put your mother outside of Queen Triskelle's control for as long as it lasted. Triskelle is highly controlling, and probably wouldn't like one of her people forming any kind of power base away from her. Vampires usually turn humans in order to get controllable minions. There's no obvious benefit in siring children that a vampire would care about by default, and repeatedly being fed on would have limited his ability to build his own strength. My best guess is that he either wanted to unleash a novel form of death onto the world and thought that she was the best person to enable him to do it or he genuinely loved her and wanted something approaching a normal-looking life."

Now he looks slightly worried. "Does that mean that Mum is in Hell?"

I hesitate, then nod. "Probably."

Because the alternative is that you tore her soul apart and ingested it for arcane power and she simply ceased to be, and I'm not going to mention that even if I do find evidence for it.

"And would Queen Triskelle have… Done something bad to her?"

"Again, probably. If Triskelle was happy then we'd probably have heard from her by now. Since we haven't she was probably unhappy. Which means that either your mother was given a long-term punishment and there's not much we can do about it, or she was given a short term punishment and she's probably fine by now."

And the question I've been dreading…

"Do you want to try summoning her?"

He doesn't answer. He looks down, then off to his right where the sea is crashing against the rocky island shore.

"The others don't remember her, and Miss Gloria is very good at pretending to be human. I don't remember her all that clearly. But she was evil."

"That doesn't mean that it's wrong to want to-."

"I don't want to summon her."

I nod, trying not to look as relieved as I feel.

"I want to try summoning Caroline."

"Caroline..?"

"The oldest-. Our oldest sister. The… First one we ate. I came here-. Back, because I wanted to bury them next to Mum, but-. But we can, can't we?"

That's not much better.

"Do you know where her remains are, then?"

He looks at me sombrely. "I know where they all are."

What..? Would have happened to her soul? She could hardly be held responsible for the murders her mother and father committed. I doubt that she got any religious instruction, and she'd have been killed when she was… Fourteen, at the eldest? If her succubae nature resulted in her going to Hell she'd probably transform into a full demon relatively quickly, but at the moment she would still be being tortured. But I don't have a good way to help with that. No one really deserves Hell.

But that's got nothing to do with anything.

I walk closer to my boy, and crouch down to hug him with my right arm.

"We can try."

Old Knife · Sep 27, 2023

Will we a Paul clone shipped off world to yoink the orange light from controller space and the later corps?

Darko · Sep 27, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
I don't the details of his life

"know the details"

Mr Zoat said:
And hopefully where they could enthral a teacher to get you a basic education.

Add a " at the end.

Ngamer11 · Sep 27, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
I nod. "Then making sure that you stayed full would probably be enough. They would probably move to a city, somewhere with a high murder rate so that they could conceal your early feedings. And hopefully where they could enthral a teacher to get you a basic education.

That should say 'enthrall'.

Mr Zoat said:
"Why.. everything? I can only guess. Binding herself to a human body affectively put your mother outside of Queen Triskelle's control for as long as it lasted. Triskelle is highly controlling, and probably wouldn't like one of her people forming any kind of power base away from her. Vampires usually turn humans in order to get controllable minions. There's no obvious benefit in siring children that a vampire would care about by default, and repeatedly being fed on would have limited his ability to build his own strength. My best guess is that he either wanted to unleash a novel form of death onto the world and thought that she was the best person to enable him to do it or he genuinely loved her and wanted something approaching a normal-looking life."

That should say 'effectively'.

Mr Zoat said:
What..? Would have happened to her soul? She could hardly be held responsible for the murders her mother and father committed. I doubt that she got any religious instruction, and she's have been killed when she was… Fourteen, at the eldest? If her succubae nature resulted in her going to Hell she'd probably transform into a full demon relatively quickly, but at the moment she would still be being tortured. But I don't have a good way to help with that. No one really deserves Hell.

But that's got nothing to do with anything.

I walk closer to my boy, and crouch down to hug him with my right arm.

"We can try."

It's scenes like this that make me wish Paul had kids of his own. Will he ever have kids, biological, adopted, or other, in this story?

Chojin Patriarch · Sep 27, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
17th February 2013
17:00 GMT

I watch from a little way back as P-.

I wince as the world shimmers. Out of curiosity I asked Scott about the level of arcane force it would take to make a New God as strong as me feel faint, and apparently it would be easier to crack the moon in half. To deliver that amount of energy without any detectable sign that it was being delivered is something he'd assumed would be impossible until I demonstrated it in his workshop. He didn't have any idea how it could be done, and Kanto…

Heh, the one drawback of still being a Paul-based SI deep down. Even wearing another's body, the compulsion concerning his name is still as strong as ever. And if you folks don't remember, the oldest Succupire boy is named Paul.

Kanto expressed a mild interest in learning how to use something like that for assassinations, but he's happy working as a history lecturer so I think that it's best to leave him to it. In the fullness of time his god-name will drive him to expand his horizons, but we live indefinitely so there's no sense in hounding him or leading him astray. Something that Darkseid has never learned.

I expect his lectures are a lot richer in details than most, with plenty of attention paid to things like atmosphere, scents and the sheer energy of the culture of the time he's speaking on...

Anyway, the boy is standing next to the rock cairn that marks the resting place of the material remains of his mother. I honestly thought that he'd want to avoid ever coming back here, then I got a notification that someone opened a boom tube here. I opened one as well, and I'm not using any sort of stealth system, so he knows that I'm here.

I haven't really talked about this with them. I mean, they all know perfectly well what happened… If you ask them about. But I think that the younger ones are mostly forgetting what it was like.

Such is the nature of youth. Especially the youngest, who probably don't remember much at all besides hunger.

He hasn't. Clearly.

I take a couple of steps closer. Just a reminder that I'm here for him if he needs anything. I don't have much planned for today, and it's nothing I prioritise above the emotional needs of my eldest son.

Atlantis' recovery went well, then. Or he's simply leaving it in the hands of those more interested in the matter.

He looks around. His expression is… Thoughtful? Pensive?

"Do you know where father's remains are?"

That would be the vampire that fathered them?

I shake my head. "No. To the best of my knowledge he died on the mainland, and the people who killed him had the knowledge to properly dispose of a vampire's remains. Most likely, they burned the body and buried small parts of the ash at a dozen different crossroads."

I could ask John Constantine about it, but I think it's probably better to let the matter lie. I have a small concern about the possibility of him getting back up, but John killed the king of the vampires years ago and he hasn't put in an appearance since. And I haven't seen Dracula either, so I'm going to assume that them getting back up isn't a simple matter of spilling a few drops of blood, if they can at all.

Much more difficult than the old Hammer Horror method, then. Or Castlevania and its mystical 'slumbers' that the defeated Dracula enters after getting his ass kicked.

"What..? What would have happened if they hadn't caught him?"

"Difficult to say."

But I suspect he wants to hear something... So get imagining, Renegade.

He gives his head a small shake. "I know he was a murderer. You don't need to protect me from it."

"I don't the details of his life. Yes, he killed at least one woman locally, but that could have been-."

"Please."

No need to go making excuses for the young man, Renegade. He's old enough to want to know. Old enough to deserve to ask.

I sigh, nodding. "Based on what little I know, he would keep preying on the local people using mesmerism to avoid raising the alarm. Given the relatively low number of deaths, it seems likely that he was doing that as a strategy, and given that your blood-siblings are all full-siblings I would guess that your mother was feeding exclusively from him. I imagine that once you were a little older he would have began teaching you hunting techniques…"

Their mother, the Succubus. It would be kind of weird if Daddy was bringing home 'meals' for her...

Hm.

"What follows there depends how good a strategist he was. It would be almost inevitable that you and the others would kill a few people during your earliest feeding attempts, so remaining in a rural location would be unwise as there wouldn't be any way to cover up the fact that something wasn't right."

And it's not like they could rise up and take over a small town or something. This isn't the 'Worm' universe.

"We.. can't hold back."

I regard him levelly. "Couldn't hold back. You and the younger ones have focused well on your lessons."

I suspect the synthesized blood has been helping. Especially if it can be tailored mystically for their needs.

"No-." He nods. "Yes, but we wouldn't have been able to hold back. If we'd stayed with them."

"There wasn't any way for him to have known that. Vampires get hungry, but they don't usually get overwhelmed by the need as you do. If they're hungry, then they're hungry all the time, whereas you don't experience hunger unless exposed to something that you can eat. Succubae and incubi experience even less compulsion."

Both the best parts and the worst of their combined lineages.

And we can't test whether or not the children could be fed enough to grant them mental clarity in their bestial state. Some combinations just don't work well.

"Do you..? Remember being hungry while your father was alive?"

Honestly, they're lucky they're as functional as they are.

He looks down for a moment, then shakes his head. "No."

I nod. "Then making sure that you stayed full would probably be enough. They would probably move to a city, somewhere with a high murder rate so that they could conceal your early feedings. And hopefully where they could enthral a teacher to get you a basic education.

Why do I get the feeling somewhere like Hub city would have been the perfect place for that...

"Then they would have to either hope that you would snap out of it after feeding, or move to a war zone. Depending on how many children they had it total, they might have escaped notice for a while or they might get the attention of the Justice League. Between a child's natural inclination for follow their parents' example, it is unlikely that you would have questioned it."

He nods solemnly.

"Why did they do it? Miss Gloria lives around humans. She lived around humans before you got her a new body."

Because they didn't think they could do it safely. For themselves, and for you kids...

"Why.. everything? I can only guess. Binding herself to a human body affectively put your mother outside of Queen Triskelle's control for as long as it lasted. Triskelle is highly controlling, and probably wouldn't like one of her people forming any kind of power base away from her. Vampires usually turn humans in order to get controllable minions. There's no obvious benefit in siring children that a vampire would care about by default, and repeatedly being fed on would have limited his ability to build his own strength. My best guess is that he either wanted to unleash a novel form of death onto the world and thought that she was the best person to enable him to do it or he genuinely loved her and wanted something approaching a normal-looking life."

...Nothing says it couldn't have been both.

Now he looks slightly worried. "Does that mean that Mum is in Hell?"

I hesitate, then nod. "Probably."

A pity you can't check on that, but no, you had to take the New God route and ignore the Demonic side-missions.

Because the alternative is that you tore her soul apart and ingested it for arcane power and she simply ceased to be, and I'm not going to mention that even if I do find evidence for it.

"And would Queen Triskelle have… Done something bad to her?"

...Yeah, probably not the kind of thing the kid wants to hear in this sort of mood.

"Again, probably. If Triskelle was happy then we'd probably have heard from her by now. Since we haven't she was probably unhappy. Which means that either your mother was given a long-term punishment and there's not much we can do about it, or she was given a short term punishment and she's probably fine by now."

And the question I've been dreading…

Why hasn't she tried to make contact, if she could?

"Do you want to try summoning her?"

He doesn't answer. He looks down, then off to his right where the sea is crashing against the rocky island shore.

Oh, that would be an interesting summoning ritual...

Mommy turns up dressed for 'work' with a, "What is you desire, my summoner..."

"The others don't remember her, and Miss Gloria is very good at pretending to be human. I don't remember her all that clearly. But she was evil."

"That doesn't mean that it's wrong to want to-."

Because, good or bad, she was still your mother.

"I don't want to summon her."

I nod, trying not to look as relived as I feel.

Probably for the best. Let's hope none of the younger kids get that idea.

"I want to try summoning Caroline."

"Caroline..?"

"The oldest-. Our oldest sister. The… First one we ate. I came here-. Back, because I wanted to bury them next to Mum, but-. But we can, can't we?"

Interesting. There's no guarantee she ended up in one place or the other, after all. The joy of being a novel interbreed: The Celestial bureaucracy of the Afterlife don't know where to send you.

That's not much better.

"Do you know where her remains are, then?"

He looks at me sombrely. "I know where they all are."

As the oldest, that's his job, after all... Or at least that's how he sees it, I expect.

What..? Would have happened to her soul? She could hardly be held responsible for the murders her mother and father committed. I doubt that she got any religious instruction, and she's have been killed when she was… Fourteen, at the eldest? If her succubae nature resulted in her going to Hell she'd probably transform into a full demon relatively quickly, but at the moment she would still be being tortured. But I don't have a good way to help with that. No one really deserves Hell.

And I doubt those in charge right now would take you poking your nose into their affairs kindly.

But that's got nothing to do with anything.

I walk closer to my boy, and crouch down to hug him with my right arm.

"We can try."

Renegade: A good father.

A surprising cutaway, though a little disappointing that we hear nothing about Atlantis. I suppose the re-sinking went well, then. Though it's entirely in character for the Renegade to care more about the troubles of his family than the fate of millions of Atlanteans. And what troubles. A young man, growing into adulthood and wondering about his place in the world and the ties of his history. Probably one of the toughest challenges the Renegade has faced thus far.

Duke Long · Sep 27, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
I mean, they all know perfectly well what happened… If you ask them about.

'about it'?

Mr Zoat said:
I imagine that once you were a little older he would have began teaching you hunting techniques…"

'begun'?

Mr Zoat said:
Depending on how many children they had it total, they might have escaped notice for a while or they might get the attention of the Justice League. Between a child's natural inclination for follow their parents' example, it is unlikely that you

'in total'
Should there be another reason in the second sentence? Because it says 'Between' and then only gives one reason.

Mr Zoat said:
I nod, trying not to look as relived as I feel.

'relieved'

moralrelativity · Sep 27, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
I don't the details of his life.

don't -> don't know

Mr Zoat said:
a child's natural inclination for follow their

for -> to

B.B. Rain · Sep 27, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
17th February 2013
17:00 GMT

I watch from a little way back as P-.

I wince as the world shimmers. Out of curiosity I asked Scott about the level of arcane force it would take to make a New God as strong as me feel faint, and apparently it would be easier to crack the moon in half. To deliver that amount of energy without any detectable sign that it was being delivered is something he'd assumed would be impossible until I demonstrated it in his workshop. He didn't have any idea how it could be done, and Kanto…

...wait, wasn't Grayven able to say his name was Paul after...

I think it was when he dealt with Grayven -50? Or...something about a close encounter with the Source Wall?

I'm going to go look it up, but I'll post this for now to ask.

Ngamer11 · Sep 27, 2023

B.B. Rain said:
...wait, wasn't Grayven able to say his name was Paul after...

I think it was when he dealt with Grayven -50? Or...something about a close encounter with the Source Wall?

I'm going to go look it up, but I'll post this for now to ask.

He's never been able to say his real name. The event you are remembering is when he was intentionally trying to knock himself out in order to avoid getting absorbed into the Source Wall.

With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

I trust you know where the happy button is?

Alive. For now.

Experienced.

Versed in the lewd.

Well worn.

Versed in the lewd.

At the End...

The Blade Will Never Die

Veteran Lurker

Versed in the lewd.

At the End...

Glomerulus

Lord of nonsense

Versed in the lewd.

Know what you're doing yet?

Dedicated ragequitter

At the End...

Well worn.

Welp

Getting sticky.

Versed in the lewd.

Dedicated ragequitter

Not too sore, are you?

Connoisseur.

Experienced.

Veteran Lurker

Glomerulus

Recovering pendant.

I trust you know where the happy button is?

Experienced.

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