With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[RoninSword]

Oh right, I remembered Dril Vox had plans to deal with them and said as much when Paul broke him free, I just forgot that he actually did it a while ago.

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Clarissa Dox has plans to deal with Dox the Maniac of Colu. He had neutral feelings over Colu being freed because they were stupid enough to fall to Braniac in the first place. When Paul pointed out how difficult it likely is to stop someone like Braniac, Dox suggested (likely not seriously but /shrug) that they should clone him and put the clone in charge (ignoring that the clone likely wouldn't want to stay).

@Mr Zoat has said that we will get to see the confrontation of Dox vs Braniac.

 

[Darko]

Young Justice shares a history with the Green Lantern cartoon.

In that Atrocitus gained his red ring immediately after the massacre of Sector 666.

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That was only confirmed in the last season.

Zoat is only using season 1 and 2, so anything from the later seasons will not necessarily happen unless he wants to.

No, they got locked up by Brainiac who then disappeared from the narrative outside of that one low level copy that showed up.

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No, Blake destroyed them.

 

[boo600]

He did once for an older-generation model, but the new generation models self-destruct when he tries it.

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Wait, what? He managed to assimilate one? When? That sounds like a game-changer for the war, even if it was an old, outdated beetle.

 

[Vaermina]

That was only confirmed in the last season.

Zoat is only using season 1 and 2, so anything from the later seasons will not necessarily happen unless he wants to.

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Zoat already had Razor show up in story.

 

[Darko]

Zoat already had Razor show up in story.

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And?

That doesn't mean that he'll include every single element.

He's already included elements that either didn't happen in canon, or were radically different.

The Light made contact with Darkseid due to Psimon, Nabu was an alien, the Sorcerer Priests of Mars are red instead of yellow, Barda is with Scott on Earth instead of still serving Darkseid, M'gann's uncle was the evil Martian and not her brother, etc.

Zoat began writing this fanfic after YJ ended and it was already going on for years before seasons 3 and 4 came out.

It's kinda an issue when you write a fanfic to a thing that's still going; you are likely to write something that will later on be contradicted by the source material.

Did you seriously expect Zoat to just rewrite every single thing he included in his fanfic just because the show contradicted those things years after he wrote them?

If so then you're likely to be pissed off at a lot of fanfic writers, because this isn't something that's exclusive to Zoat.

 

[Duke Long]

Wait, what? He managed to assimilate one? When? That sounds like a game-changer for the war, even if it was an old, outdated beetle.

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I think the below is what's being referred to. He didn't actually assimilate it, presumably because it's more valuable for reverse-engineered than as a construct. It was treated surprisingly casually, from what I remember.

I look down at the… Okay, that is a Scarab Warrior, but from what I can tell it's one of the lower end ones. Looks like they stuck it on a local man without doing any of the preparation work or indoctrination because that shouldn't have been as easy as it was.

I look up at her, smiling. "I'm certain that you did. However..." Got it. "I can prevent this Scarab self-destructing and- "

The armour peels itself off the host, retreating back into the Scarab. I deploy a construct and pluck it from the man's spine.

"-capture it intact."

She looks curious. "How?"

"I can bypass previous generation anti-construct defences and alter the Scarab's desires, and since the Scarab now earnestly wants to help it volunteers."

"Hm." She nods, half-turning to where the rest of her squad are detaining the rest of the paramilitary militia. One looks at the Scarab floating in my construct clamp and sags in defeat. "How about current generation defences?"

"No luck yet. They self-destruct if they move outside of prescribed tolerances."

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[Mr Zoat]

16th September 2013
15:22 GMT

Katar Hol looks up from his work: some sort of demographic data displayed on the screen in front of him and several sets of notes laying around him.

"Is it time for our meeting already?"

"Technically, we're twenty two minutes late. I got here and you were working so I didn't want to interrupt, and then five minutes had passed and I felt awkward about speaking up after I'd already been there that long, and then…"

"Ah." He pushes his notes away a short distance, and then sits back. "I apologise."

"I-I think, between the two of us, I'm by far the one who's messed with your life more."

"Perhaps. But I can hardly apologise for what you've done."

I nod. "I… Should have probably made time to discuss this with you well before now."

"Identifying and neutralising threats to the Empire is supposed to be my job."

I raise my eyebrows.

"In the sense of ensuring that they do not become threats."

I raise my eyebrows a little more.

"By befriending them or encouraging them to focus in other areas."

"Ah." I nod. "Glad to hear it. I didn't think there was a way to make Shayera hate me more, but I imagine that killing her husband would probably do it."

"She doesn't hate you."

"No, but uncontrolled anger can look very similar." I tap my foot against the floor four times as displacement activity. "So… Asylum."

"It would be a big step."

"Why? Why now?"

"Because I no longer believe in the Empire. I used to. I believed in public service. I believe in strength and personal valour. I still could not respect a leader who had not killed and risked death for their people at least at one point in their life. But between downside, the lizarkon reservations and the colonial slaves, I cannot square what I have been trained to believe with what we actually do."

"I've seen Karna. I imagine that having two intelligent species native to a planet creates difficulties."

He gives his wings a semi-ruffle. "How many intelligent species are there on Earth?"

"There's only one significant species that's corporeal all of the time. We only interact with the others in very specific circumstances. We've never had to build a society with us all in it."

"I don't believe that you'd have accepted the serfdom of an entire species. Every human civilisation that still exists has moved away from slavery."

"I don't know. I look at Asian sweatshops, and I compare the quality of life the people there have to the lizarkon farmers, and I'm not really sure that the sweatshop workers have it better."

"It may not be nice and it certainly isn't easy, but they can earn more. And however convenient cheap clothes are, the rest of the Earth isn't dependent on them."

"Okay, so you want the Thanagarian Empire to have more opportunity for social mobility? Bleez wants that as well, and she isn't applying for asylum."

"Bleez has never been a part of enforcing it."

"I wasn't.. exactly sure how much work she did for Thanagarian intelligence."

"Barely any. Certainly, she wouldn't have been sent outside of the Empire as Shayera and I have, and Lantern Dul was."

"Alright. So you can't stand to keep being part of the problem, but defecting to Hyathis doesn't appeal and you can't be on full alert against Thanagarian Empire Crows twenty four seven. And I've got worse news for you."

He closes his eyes, breathes in deeply and holds it for a five-count. Then he exhales, and open his eyes. "I am prepared."

"I was concerned that after a military… Being thwarted militarily, the Thanagarian Empire would look to conquer somewhere else quickly to avoid looking weak."

"Our leaders are usually more rational than that, but if they had fleet resources that would be unused due to not needing to use then in Antares, such a decision could have been made."

"So I decided that the thing to do was build an anti-Thanagarian Empire defensive alliance. Your home Sector's Green Lantern is ferrying ambassadors around right now."

"That will be taken as a provocation."

"Probably. But will they handle it by competition and limited warfare, or will they go for it as hard and as fast as they can?"

"What are you trying to do, Orange Lantern?"

"I'm trying to force a stalemate, where the Empire is forced to remain within its current borders. I'm hopeful that in the longer term the alliance I'm building will transform into a federation with unified trading rules and general cooperation which will so utterly outperform an unreformed Thanagarian Empire that they'll be forced to reform or risk haemorrhaging worlds."

"Worlds can't leave the Thanagarian Empire."

I shake my head. "The Thanagarian Empire has no legal mechanism for member worlds leaving. It's not quite the same thing."

"No, I suppose it isn't. I think it's more likely that Thanagar would attack them."

"I think so, too. I think they'll do it soon. And without their normal probing. I think they'll just go for a mass assault, try to take out one of the major parts of the alliance, and then pull back."

"What makes you think that?"

"They were going to use lizarkons to occupy Antares, but that's not an option. A significant portion of their military was stood down to colonise the New Colonies, which means that they can't use thanagarian marines to do the job. And while I think they'd probably be okay with being recalled to service that would mess up the High Council's long term development plans. But I don't think they'll try to glass their target, because the local Green Lantern is getting involved and that would risk having someone from the Honour Guard who actually can fight fleets turn up, quite aside from anything that I'd do. They get their pride back, and probably cause the alliance to break up before it's solidified which lets them have a rethink about where they're going next."

"And if they lose?"

"Do High Mors retire?"

"The last two have. But they left office when things were going well."

"I didn't get the impression that the current fellow would cling to office when making himself the scapegoat would preserve the governmental system. I don't think there'd be a revolution or a mutiny, for much the same reason that Shayera dreams of beating me to death with her mace. But the Old Colonies might start flexing their muscles. Depending on how much of the fleet survived."

"That is possible. But I think that you are underestimating how cunning thanagarians can be."

"Could be. I guess that we'll find out."

 

[Ngamer11]

"There's only one species that's corporeal all of the time. We only interact with the others in very specific circumstances. We've never had to built a society with us all in it."

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That should say 'build'.

"I didn't get the impression that the current fellow would cling to office when making himself the scapegoat would preserve the governmental system. I don't think there'd be a revolution or a mutiny, for much the same reason that Shayera dreams of beating me to death with her mace. But the Old Colonies might start flexing their muscles. Depending on how much of the fleet survived."

"That is possible. But I think that you are underestimating how cunning thanagarians can be."

"Could be. I guess that we'll find out."

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I hope this happens soon and it's not a plot line that takes a while to pay off.

 

[Darko]

Every human civilisation that still exists has moved away from slavery."

"I don't know. I look at Asian sweatshops, and I compare the quality of life the people there have to the lizarkon farmers, and I'm not really sure that the sweatshop workers have it better."

"It may not be nice and it certainly isn't easy, but they can earn more. And however convenient cheap clothes are, the rest of the Earth isn't dependent on them."

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And people are at least outraged at the existence of sweatshops, but most Thanagarians probably aren't that concerned for the lizarkons.

 

[Z000]

And people are at least outraged at the existence of sweatshops, but most Thanagarians probably aren't that concerned for the lizarkons.

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there also a big biological difference

for us, it just human all the way down, we can empathy and sympathize but for the Thanagarian and Lizarkon, they are fundamentally different one a bird and one a lizard, one fly and one can't, the very big wall of specie is a thing for them

 

[Chojin Patriarch]

16th September 2013
15:22 GMT

Katar Hol looks up from his work: some sort of demographic data displayed on the screen in front of him and several sets of notes laying around him.

"Is it time for our meeting already?"

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It's fortunate this Katar doesn't have the quick temper his wife does (or unlike certain other Katars in DC Continuity.) Otherwise he'd be a bit saltier about what OL has been doing to and against Thanagar lately. As it is...

Spoiler: Commentary spoilered for length

"Technically, we're twenty two minutes late. I got here and you were working so I didn't want to interrupt, and then five minutes had passed and I felt awkward about speaking up after I'd already been there that long, and then…"

"Ah." He pushes his notes away a short distance, and then sits back. "I apologise."

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...Yeah, I feel that kind of awkwardness. It usually doesn't take the other person twenty-two minutes to notice me, though. What was Katar focusing on so heavily?

"I-I think, between the two of us, I'm by far the one who's messed with your life more."

"Perhaps. But I can hardly apologise for what you've done."

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Bit of a comedian, isn't he? But really, it's not his fault he didn't notice OL. He was distracted, clearly.

I nod. "I… Should have probably made time to discuss this with you well before now."

"Identifying and neutralising threats to the Empire is supposed to be my job."

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A clever adaption of his 'space policeman' role from the SIlver Age incarnation. And he probably has arrested people before he came to Earth.

I raise my eyebrows.

"In the sense of ensuring that they do not become threats."

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I suspect the government of Thanagar would be a little annoyed you didn't manage that with OL. Not that they've interacted much.

I raise my eyebrows a little more.

"By befriending them or encouraging them to focus in other areas."

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Good luck getting an Orange Lantern with a goal in mind to focus on something else.

"Ah." I nod. "Glad to hear it. I didn't think there was a way to make Shayera hate me more, but I imagine that killing her husband would probably do it."

"She doesn't hate you."

"No, but uncontrolled anger can look very similar." I tap my foot against the floor four times as displacement activity. "So… Asylum."

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Yes, a peculiar decision, that. As for Shayera, I suspect she's displacing her anger over Thanagarian affairs onto an easy target.

"It would be a big step."

"Why? Why now?"

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Well, given the shake-ups... It wouldn't be hard for a couple of long-range Wingmen to just disappear...

"Because I no longer believe in the Empire. I used to. I believed in public service. I believe in strength and personal valour. I still could not respect a leader who had not killed and risked death for their people at least at one point in their lives. But between downside, the lizarkon reservations and the colonial slaves, I cannot square what I have been trained to believe with what we actually do."

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That is still an interesting choice to make by Katar. Does Shayera agree with him, or is she only sticking around because love?

"I've seen Karna. I imagine that having two intelligent species native to a planet creates difficulties."

He gives his wings a semi-ruffle. "How many intelligent species are there on Earth?"

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That depends on how you judge intelligence. There are plenty of non-humanoid creatures who we're not sure aren't as sapient as humans. It's just that we can't talk to them and work it out more easily.

"There's only one species that's corporeal all of the time. We only interact with the others in very specific circumstances. We've never had to built a society with us all in it."

"I don't believe that you'd have accepted the serfdom of an entire species. Every human civilisation that still exists has moved away from slavery."

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He's counting Atlanteans as humans, of course, since they do share common ancestry. I would assume that Angels and Demons qualify as variably-corporeal.

"I don't know. I look at Asian sweatshops, and I compare the quality of life the people there have to the lizarkon farmers, and I'm not really sure that the sweatshop workers have it better."

"It may not be nice and it certainly isn't easy, but they can earn more. And however convenient cheap clothes are, the rest of the Earth isn't dependent on them."

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Frustratingly, chattel slavery is gone, yes, but economic 'slavery' is still a thing. Such as people working shitty jobs for bare-minimum pay because the work needs to be done, but the people in charge of it don't want to spend more than the barest amount on it.

"Okay, so you want the Thanagarian Empire to have more opportunity for social mobility? Bleez wants that as well, and she isn't applying for asylum."

"Bleez has never been a part of enforcing it."

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True. It really does feel like her 'intelligence agency' work is more like a hobby for her.

"I wasn't.. exactly sure how much work she did for Thanagarian intelligence."

"Barely any. Certainly, she wouldn't have been sent outside of the Empire as Shayera and I have, and Lantern Dul was."

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Which did show in her early appearances.

"Alright. So you can't stand to keep being part of the problem, but defecting to Hyathis doesn't appeal and you can't be on full alert against Thanagarian Empire Crows twenty four seven. And I've got worse news for you."

He closes his eyes, breathes in deeply and holds it for a five-count. Then he exhales, and open his eyes. "I am prepared."

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Oh, you may feel that way, but OL can and will surprise you.

"I was concerned that after a military… Being thwarted militarily, the Thanagarian Empire would look to conquer somewhere else quickly to avoid looking weak."

"Our leaders are usually more rational than that, but if they had fleet resources that would be unused due to not needing to use then in Antares, such a decision could have been made."

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And as we saw last scene, the High Mor was fully aware of said issues. And is choosing to leave it to his successor to handle it.

"So I decided that the thing to do was build an anti-Thanagarian Empire defensive alliance. Your home Sector's Green Lantern is ferrying ambassadors around right now."

"That will be taken as a provocation."

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No, they can point out that this is merely organising peoples at risk of unwanted aggression and giving them a way to prevent it. I doubt Thanagar would accept that, but the alliance can try to insist...

"Probably. But will they handle it by competition and limited warfare, or will they go for it as hard and as fast as they can?"

"What are you trying to do, Orange Lantern?"

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Spiking the wheel of interstellar imperial strategy, basically. And preventing an atrocity or two down the line.

"I'm trying to force a stalemate, where the Empire is forced to remain within its current borders. I'm hopeful that in the longer term the alliance I'm building will transform into a federation with unified trading rules and general cooperation which will so utterly outperform an unreformed Thanagarian Empire that they'll be forced to reform or risk haemorrhaging worlds."

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Which kind of depends on the Thanagarians being rational about all of this. Sadly, I have the feeling the next High Mor will not be so inclined.

"Worlds can't leave the Thanagarian Empire."

I shake my head. "The Thanagarian Empire has no legal mechanism for member worlds leaving. It's not quite the same thing."

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He has a point. </Morgan Freeman>

"No, I suppose it isn't. I think it's more likely that Thanagar would attack them."

"I think so, too. I think they'll do it soon. And without their normal probing. I think they'll just go for a mass assault, try to take out one of the major parts of the alliance, and then pull back."

"What makes you think that?"

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The hard part will be working out which party would be the easiest target.

"They were going to use lizarkons to occupy Antares, but that's not an option. A significant portion of their military was stood down to colonise the New Colonies, which means that they can't use thanagarian marines to do the job. And while I think they'd probably be okay with being recalled to service that would mess up the High Council's long term development plans. But I don't think they'll try to glass their target, because the local Green Lantern is getting involved and that would risk having someone from the Honour Guard who actually can fight fleets turn up, quite aside from anything that I'd do. They get their pride back, and probably cause the alliance to break up before it's solidified which lets them have a rethink about where they're going next."

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And again, it all depends on them being sensible about the whole process. Depending on their choice of target, their fleet may hit and bounce off, if not be destroyed by considerable defensive power.

"And if they lose?"

"Do High Mors retire?"

"The last two have. But they left office when things were going well."

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I'm sure they'll get word about this one's retirement soon...

"I didn't get the impression that the current fellow would cling to office when making himself the scapegoat would preserve the governmental system. I don't think there'd be a revolution or a mutiny, for much the same reason that Shayera dreams of beating me to death with her mace. But the Old Colonies might start flexing their muscles. Depending on how much of the fleet survived."

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I see he doesn't think any fleet action would be as successful as the Thanagarians might hope.

"That is possible. But I think that you are underestimating how cunning thanagarians can be."

"Could be. I guess that we'll find out."

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Or bloody-minded either. Actions taken out of barely-disguised spite can have significant results too.

It will be interesting to see what happens when they hear about the change of High Mor and see what the new guy orders first. Especially if they make a move that lets them divest themselves of potentially-troublesome elements such as the remainder of the lizarkon forces they trained for the Antares occupation who are now loose ends. Or maybe he'll do something sensible and non-confrontational...

 

[Duke Long]

"Because I no longer believe in the Empire. I used to. I believed in public service. I believe in strength and personal valour. I still could not respect a leader who had not killed and risked death for their people at least at one point in their lives. But between downside, the lizarkon reservations and the colonial slaves, I cannot square what I have been trained to believe with what we actually do."

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'life'?

"There's only one species that's corporeal all of the time. We only interact with the others in very specific circumstances. We've never had to built a society with us all in it."

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I don't think the first sentence is quite true. The saremites are corporeal, they just live underwater. I'm pretty sure they count as a separate intelligent species.

 

[Mr Zoat]

That should say 'build'.

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'life'?

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Thank you, corrected.

I don't think the first sentence is quite true. The saremites are corporeal, they just live underwater. I'm pretty sure they count as a separate intelligent species.

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True, and so are gnomes, but neither are really integrated with human civilisation. I'll modify it.

 

[Neruz]

Saying that all the human civilizations on Earth have moved away from slavery would definitely not be true IRL, but this is a world that has gone through two major apocalyptic events that killed a... lot... of people, so its possible it is true now.

 

[mastermenthe]

Saying that all the human civilizations on Earth have moved away from slavery would definitely not be true IRL, but this is a world that has gone through two major apocalyptic events that killed a... lot... of people, so its possible it is true now.

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There's nothing quite like mass die-off events for reduce the power inequality of the "working population".

 

[Mr Zoat]

Saying that all the human civilizations on Earth have moved away from slavery would definitely not be true IRL, but this is a world that has gone through two major apocalyptic events that killed a... lot... of people, so its possible it is true now.

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And several major centres of slavery have Teth Adom looking at them with a raised eyebrow.

 

[Neruz]

There's nothing quite like mass die-off events for reduce the power inequality of the "working population".

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Indeed, the Black Death did more for worker's rights in Europe than anything since the fall of Rome.

 

[PDV]

Saying that all the human civilizations on Earth have moved away from slavery would definitely not be true IRL, but this is a world that has gone through two major apocalyptic events that killed a... lot... of people, so its possible it is true now.

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Disagree, that's been essentially true on our Earth for over twenty years. There were narrow places where it was only slightly covert (mostly the rapid-growth cities on the Arabian Peninsula) but nowhere it was permitted.

 

[Neruz]

Disagree, that's been essentially true on our Earth for over twenty years. There were narrow places where it was only slightly covert (mostly the rapid-growth cities on the Arabian Peninsula) but nowhere it was permitted.

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Well its one of those technicalities arguments, because there is no real worldwide agreed upon definition of slavery.

But if you accept the modern definition of slavery as defined by the United Nations, then there are absolutely still cultures that are perfectly happy to engage in certain kinds of slavery and indeed even enshrine such into their laws.

Chattel slavery specifically has been at least discouraged by all current human cultures, at least in theory, but there are other kinds of slavery.

 

[Vaermina]

"That is possible. But I think that you are underestimating how cunning thanagarians can be."

"Could be. I guess that we'll find out."

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Already confirmed that you are in fact underestimating things.

 

[CTrees]

Disagree, that's been essentially true on our Earth for over twenty years. There were narrow places where it was only slightly covert (mostly the rapid-growth cities on the Arabian Peninsula) but nowhere it was permitted.

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The 13th Amendment to the US Constitution provides an exception that allows slavery as punishment for a crime. Not sure if discussion of the modern utilization of that exception is allowed under Rule 8, but... the US isn't unique in this. Chattel slavery may be illegal worldwide, but forced prison labor? Definitely not banned everywhere.