Genuine question. What does Atlantis lose if Venturia secedes?
They lose face and some pride.
The throne of Atlantis loses legitimacy and also loses diplomatic standing with Aurania and any city-state closely aligned with Aurania. Because Ptra wasn't randomly kidnapped. Iirc she essentially went with her father after the court (the then Queen of Atlantis) granted him custody.
Atlantis is a federation of (mostly) monarchies, in which the king of Poseidonis holds primacy. In monarchies things like face and pride, in other words legitimacy, matter a whole damn lot. There's a reason that there's so much pomp and ceremony in kingdoms. If the king of Atlantis allows a city to secede over a referendum, what signal does that send to the other cities? What signal does it send to the population Poseidonis itself, in a time where contact with surface democracies becomes more and more common. What signal does it send to those Atlantean monarchies that are even more traditional and autocratic than Poseidonis?
Though less than if Venturia went to a surface world country for support.
What country of note would support Poseidonis over Atlantis without Paul's meddling? Would you expect any on the security council to do so?
Paul's reasoning made perfect sense to me. Where do you think he went wrong?
It's not his philosophical reasoning. It's the complete lack of diplomacy. All that weird stuff diplomats say and countries care about doesn't just exist because all politicians are morons or something, you know? As long as the world isn't ruled by a single direct democracy or purely by might makes right, stuff like precedence, decorum, and appearance of legitimacy matter a whole damn lot.
It's Vaermina. In Vae-land, anything Paul (or Grayven) does is axiomatically incorrect, impolite, and exhibits moral turpitude. In the parallel version of the story that he reads, Paul routinely kicks puppies, steals candy from babies, and ties damsels to train tracks.
Politely, it's best to ignore Vae. Impolitely, Vae is a fucking idiot and the only thing that you'll get out of talking to him is a headache.
I would usually completely agree with you on Vae, but I thin this time he's actually (mostly) right. Paul is being an idiot here that is acting willfully ignorant of international and intranational diplomacy, because I guess he considers it beneath him. He speaks to King Orin (who has to juggle all kinds of interests for a living) as if he's dumb. And King Orin still holds back and acts diplomatically, probably out of a mix of disbelief and the threat of space fleet.
You really think the UN is going to drop the potential military threat the ship presents just because of the word of one guy, no matter how well informed he is. No they would want to be careful.
Also the League is probably the only group that is used to dealing with aliens in any manner, unless you want to count the Light, so their expertise could be needed.
You're making the mistake of treating the Comic's UN as a reasonable body that get's things done.
Both of you should be aware that this is an unprecedented event. I don't think that there are any clear international rules on what to do when an advanced alien space fleet wants to both trade and potentially lend military aid to a separatist part of a single country.
This means that multiple organizations have a vested interest in making themselves relevant here, because it can shape how future space trade looks for decades to come.
Every permanent member nation of the UNSC would love to keep the power of allowing it to just them. Every other nation would either open up control to the wider UN (if they hold sway there) or have it be up to each nation separately (if they don't).
Also keep in mind that the UN 16 is at least slightly more relevant than the real life UN, because they have nominal control and partial influence over a highly visible organization that is also unique in their space combat capabilities. That, coupled with the fact that this is the first major politically relevant interaction with an extraterrestrial organization means that the UN as an organization is in a prime position to finally accrue actual power.
