With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

thebishop8 · 2025-12-15T07:38:51+0000

I also just remembered that Amalak used to employ a coluan, Gozzi. If Brainiac is involved then that's ironic in the sense that he's responsible for both of their species recent woes and that they didn't they had that connection.

Vaermina · 2025-12-15T08:18:13+0000

BR549 said:
But I seem to recall Amalak did allow for the fact that, if it could be proven Zod wasn't responsible somehow, that he would turn his ire to ensuring the true perpetrator was executed instead...

Maybe.

But given he's a revenge obsessed Zealot I feel like its more likely he just "no true scotsmen"s it and claims whatever proof Orange Lantern digs up to be too inconclusive to count.

Mr Zoat · 2025-12-15T08:33:03+0000

thebishop8 said:
I made a typo when searching for mentions of Brainiac, and found Zoat made the same typo once, only a couple of days away from a full decade ago:

'Braniac' to 'Brainiac'

Duke Long said:
Missing speech mark.
'suggests'

Darko said:
"convince"

Thank you, corrected.

CTrees · 2025-12-15T11:49:08+0000

We really have no idea what Timaron's legal system looks like, or if it has precedent covering claims of mind control, intelligence suppression, desire manipulation, and so on. "I was mind controlled" being a viable defense at trial causes all sorts of issues, and should hopefully require some reasonably firm proof beyond the word of the accused. But thinking about it from a real world, American legal perspective...

The intelligence suppression is really not much different to a defendant claiming involuntary intoxication. I.e., they did the crime, but they were unknowingly or unwillingly drugged by some third party, and they would not have committed the crime if they had not been drugged. The issues with Zod/Arnus using that as a defense are 1) proving Zod would not have otherwise done it, 2) proving his intelligence was suppressed for a long enough, ongoing basis for his genocide plan to be conducted, with no one noticing or stopping it (the intelligence suppression when he was released from the phantom zone is circumstantial evidence, but does not prove the effect was occurring before his capture), 3) proving that his intelligence was suppressed just enough to concoct his genocide plan but not so much that it would make him incapable of carrying it out on his scifi spaceship, which seems like a very narrow needle to thread, 4) showing who was behind the suppression and why.

Frozen20XX · 2025-12-15T12:28:41+0000

Old Knife said:
Dunno about that. He looks good in orange.

"Mongul of Warworld. You belong to the Orange Lantern Corps."

Chojin Patriarch said:
Heh. I doubt she'd even find any reason to bother Assimilating him. Perhaps bind him with a tailored 'it gets worse' Black Mercy (Black Anguish?) and let him rot in some hole on her surface...

Which is more merciful? Death, Assimilation, or Black Mercied (Agurished?)?

Lord Ernest · 2025-12-15T12:38:51+0000

Frozen20XX said:
Which is more merciful? Death, Assimilation, or Black Mercied (Agurished?)?

If we are referring to Mother of Mercy's flowers, then Black Mercy. You will die eventually, but until then you get to experience a realistic dream where even your inner desires get fulfilled, even those you didn't know you wanted or wished for. I don't remember if I read the original comic, but from the example shown in the animated series, I don't think even Superman ever acknowledged that he just wished to live a simple farm life in an intact Krypton.

Mr Zoat · 2025-12-15T13:12:48+0000

Lord Ernest said:
If we are referring to Mother of Mercy's flowers, then Black Mercy. You will die eventually, but until then you get to experience a realistic dream where even your inner desires get fulfilled, even those you didn't know you wanted or wished for. I don't remember if I read the original comic, but from the example shown in the animated series, I don't think even Superman ever acknowledged that he just wished to live a simple farm life in an intact Krypton.

The original comic version was much less pleasant for him. Interestingly, they were rescued not by Batman but by Jason Todd, and it was the first time Superman or Wonder Woman had met him.

Frozen20XX · 2025-12-15T13:25:41+0000

Lord Ernest said:
If we are referring to Mother of Mercy's flowers, then Black Mercy.

Was referring to @Chojin Patriarch's idea of 'tailored it gets worse Black Mercy (Black Anguish?) and let him rot in some hole on her surface' not the comic one. Obviously, if it was the 'stuck in paradise' version, of course that's the most merciful option.

Prince Charon · 2025-12-16T05:33:30+0000

Mr Zoat said:
The original comic version was much less pleasant for him. Interestingly, they were rescued not by Batman but by Jason Todd, and it was the first time Superman or Wonder Woman had met him.

That comic being the origin of the "Think clean thoughts, chum," meme, IIRC.

Mr Zoat · 2025-12-16T06:14:45+0000

12th August 2013
17:03 GMT

"So…"

Amalak gives me a decidedly disgruntled look. "What's the problem?"

"You know that briefing I gave you on Reach mental alteration technologies?"

"...yes..?"

"And I know that you've encountered telepaths before, I read your detection protocols."

He squints at me for a few moments. "Are you implying that Dru-Zod… Was being controlled by another?"

"There's a very small amount of circumstantial evidence… But the thing is, under Timaronian law, all parties need access to the interrogation and have the option to bring in their own experts. So while I had to relay my suspicions to Arnus -their defence lawyer- I also have to relay them to you, and point out that… This is going to delay things."

He relaxes slightly. "And that's all?"

"Uh. That's all-. Um. No."

He sags. "Out with it."

"Ursa Dou-Ka's pregnant. We couldn't find any reference in Timaronian law on how that gets handled, so I thought-."

"How?"

"Turns out that while birthing matrices existed, most kryptonians reproduced the traditional way."

He sighs, shaking his head. "It's unprofessional for a serving military officer. Didn't they have fertility regulators?"

"That's… A more personal question than I felt comfortable asking. The issue is that she didn't use it."

"And you want to defer her sentence until she's given birth."

"Ideally I'd like her potential sentence commuted to life imprisonment, but yes, at least a deferment. I… Do realise that this sounds like I'm.. trying to back out, I'm... Not."

He takes a moment to think things over. "I need to find a telepath, or rely on one provided by the defence?"

"I can… I know several telepaths, and you can pick one that suits you."

"These would be telepaths known to the defence."

"Not personally. Uh. I could probably find telepaths not known to the defence, but I wouldn't really be able to vouch for them personally either-." Oh. Would..? Mother of Mercy or Great Mother be able to..? "Ah, a couple of possibilities just occurred to me, but I'm not sure how… Viable they are."

"What happens if I don't?"

"Under Timaronian law, you'd be giving up the right to challenge the evidence. You could argue about the interpretation of the evidence, but that's it. I think… If you had a fully functional legal system this would be done by police and the prosecution or defence representation would be properly optional, but we don't.. have that."

"So who was it?"

"The telepaths?"

"If it wasn't Dru-Zod murdering my species for a distraction, who was it?"

"I have no idea. I have no leads, no clues, and almost every witness has been dead for forty years. Honestly, if we confirm that their minds were interfered with and are left with no idea who did it-"

I hold out my left hand, palm up, and precipitate out an orange ring.

"-I'll give this to your most dedicated investigator, because I… Don't know."

"Or you could turn out to be completely wrong."

"Yep. That would be a lot easier. It's not like Dru-Zod is any use to me."

"Unlike me."

"Precisely. But… I was six months into this job -hadn't even introduced myself to the controllers yet- when a group of criminals called The Light managed to mind control a group of my world's greatest heroes. That was not a fun fight, but I didn't hold it against them… Other than their somewhat lax security that allowed it to happen… Because they weren't the ones in control. If it was someone else… Even if they just nudged him into doing something he was going to do anyway-."

"Yes, it-." He nods. "Emotionally, it's not-. But yes, it would be their fault." … "Telepaths. Who do you recommend?"

"Genomorphs. They're a synthetic species from my homeworld… Somewhat based on mutated kryptonian genetic samples. They're all telepathic, but they're also… Their subspecies are adapted for particular tasks. G-gnomes are excellent telepaths, g-lusca are organic supercomputers who can parse what they scan and analyse it for inconsistencies… Changes in texture that would indicate external influence. And a g-goblin can explain what they find to you in a humanoid-friendly manner."

"Are they expensive?"

"To hire? No, not really. It's more complicated, because they don't exactly have the normal desires that naturally evolving species do. You'd have to talk to their leader. They'll probably want biological samples over money or materials."

"Alright. Who else?"

"Martians. They're from one planet further from my species' sun than I am. All telepathic, though skill and power levels vary. Two are affiliated to the Justice League, but there are plenty of others. Their entire species owes me, but they don't really have any strong attachment to either party in this trial."

"Anything else I should know about them?"

"They're all shapeshifters and they go a bit crazy if they're left on their own for very long. Oh, and there's a low-level race war happening in their civilisation but I doubt that will matter to an outsider."

"Shapeshifters are having a race war?"

"They're telepaths, so they always know. They used to all be one race, then the Guardians invaded to stop them being super murder monsters, and iterated their fixes, and they… Stuck."

"Super-? Perhaps not. Who else?"

"Lantern Mother of Mercy created these things called Black Mercies, which-."

"She created those… Things?"

"They were intended for use as emergency hospice care. Like euphoric painkillers, they got misused a lot."

"To put it mildly. Who else?"

"The techno-organic space-dweller Great Mother could probably analyse someone's mind, but I'm not sure she could do it without taking them apart. There are a small number of human telepaths, some more reliable than others."

"The genomorphs seem to be the superior choice." He sighs. "Let me speak to the others. You'll have our decision with the hour."

Silveraith · 2025-12-16T06:21:09+0000

Mr Zoat said:
"That's… A more personal question that I felt comfortably asking. The issue is that she didn't use it."

Than.

Vaermina · 2025-12-16T06:27:16+0000

Mr Zoat said:
"Yep. That would be a lot easier. It's not like Dru-Zod is any use to me."

Are you sure about that?

Because he would probably be worth his weight in power rings if you could put him in charge of the Doomsday to fight in your war against the Reach/Apocalypse.

Mr Zoat · 2025-12-16T06:30:27+0000

Silveraith said:
Than.

Thank you, corrected.

McGraww · 2025-12-16T06:39:53+0000

Vaermina said:
Are you sure about that?

Because he would probably be worth his weight in power rings if you could put him in charge of the Doomsday to fight in your war against the Reach/Apocalypse.

Not worth the political blowback IMO. Yes the Doomsday is a very good ship, but is it as good as the ones LEGION is getting its allies to build? Also in a war the size of the Reach War, a single ship has to be absurdly good to be anything more than a rounding error, and I don't think the Kryptionians had tech quite that good.

Also, while Zod is an experienced military officer, it would probably be easier to just use telepathy to teach someone else to run the Doomsday. And that's not even getting into Zod's thought process, which between his racism and extremism, is probably not the best for acting as part of the Controller's military.

Chojin Patriarch · 2025-12-16T06:50:45+0000

Mr Zoat said:
12th August 2013
17:03 GMT

"So…"

Amalak gives me a decidedly disgruntled look. "What's the problem?"

Yes, he's going to be very annoyed by this complication. What started out as a marvellously simple affair has gotten so fiddly, hasn't it? I mean, he's not going to stop now, when Zod is so close to justice, but I bet the taste is turning a little sour.

"You know that briefing I gave you on Reach mental alteration technologies?"

"...yes..?"

You can just feel his dread of 'oh no, what now..?'

"And I know that you've encountered telepaths before, I read your detection protocols."

He squints at me for a few moments. "Are you implying that Dru-Zod… Was being controlled by another?"

Ah, he's sharp.

"There's a very small amount of circumstantial evidence… But the thing is, under Timaronian law, all parties need access to the interrogation and have the option to bring in their own experts. So while I had to relay my suspicions to Arnus -their defence lawyer- I also have to relay them to you, and point out that… This is going to delay things."

The question is does Amalak have access to reliable telepaths for such an investigation?

He relaxes slightly. "And that's all?"

"Uh. That's all-. Um. No."

Yeah, Don't forget Ursa...

He sags. "Out with it."

"Ursa Dou-Ka's pregnant. We couldn't find any reference in Timaronian law on how that gets handled, so I thought-."

Surprising. Either it wasn't a common occurrence, or the records of those laws has been lost.

"How?"

"Turns out that while birthing matrices existed, most kryptonians reproduced the traditional way."

Bet the Science Council families tended to prefer the fancy method instead of the old-fashioned.

He sighs, shaking his head. "It's unprofessional for a serving military officer. Didn't they have fertility regulators?"

"That's… A more personal question that I felt comfortably asking. The issue is that she didn't use it."

Which smacks of all kinds of negligence on her part. I can understand if it was the stressful situation, but...

"And you want to defer her sentence until she's given birth."

"Ideally I'd like her potential sentence commuted to life imprisonment, but yes, at least a deferment. I… Do realise that this sounds like I'm.. trying to back out, I'm... Not."

And really, helping to establish a colony sounds like a sensible 'hard labour' situation.

He takes a moment to think things over. "I need to find a telepath, or rely on one provided by the defence?"

"I can… I know several telepaths, and you can pick one that suits you."

Most of them are impartial enough to be tolerable by the letter of the law, I hope.

"These would be telepaths known to the defence."

"Not personally. Uh. I could probably find telepaths not known to the defence, but I wouldn't really be able to vouch for them personally either-." Oh. Would..? Mother of Mercy or Great Mother be able to..? "Ah, a couple of possibilities just occurred to me, but I'm not sure how… Viable they are."

Oh, this will be good.

"What happens if I don't?"

"Under Timaronian law, you'd be giving up the right to challenge the evidence. You could argue about the interpretation of the evidence, but that's it. I think… If you had a fully functional legal system this would be done by police and the prosecution or defence representation would be properly optional, but we don't.. have that."

Really, nothing about this whole trial is going to be 'conventional' by Timaronian law, honestly.

"So who was it?"

"The telepaths?"

"If it wasn't Dru-Zod murdering my species for a distraction, who was it?"

Ah, see, that's the tricky part, isn't it?

"I have no idea. I have no leads, no clues, and almost every witness has been dead for forty years. Honestly, if we confirm that their minds were interfered with and are left with no idea who did it-"

I hold out my left hand, palm up, and precipitate out an orange ring.

"-I'll give this to your most dedicated investigator, because I… Don't know."

Well, the most dedicated investigator capable of using it without losing control, anyway.

"Or you could turn out to be completely wrong."

"Yep. That would be a lot easier. It's not like Dru-Zod is any use to me."

"Unlike me."

Having him around does make more trouble for OL than he'd like. Not least the question of what to do with him, since they can't trust him on the colony, but throwing him back in the Zone would be unpalatable to Superman.

"Precisely. But… I was six months into this job -hadn't even introduced myself to the controllers yet- when a group of criminals called The Light managed to mind control a group of my world's greatest heroes. That was not a fun fight, but I didn't hold it against them… Other than their somewhat lax security that allowed it to happen… Because they weren't the ones in control. If it was someone else… Even if they just nudged him into doing something he was going to do anyway-."

Which would be the easiest way to do it. less effort needed and less trace of direct interference.

"Yes, it-." He nods. "Emotionally, it's not-. But yes, it would be their fault." … "Telepaths. Who do you recommend?"

"Genomorphs. They're a synthetic species from my homeworld… Somewhat based on mutated kryptonian genetic samples. They're all telepathic, but they're also… Their subspecies are adapted for particular tasks. G-gnomes are excellent telepaths, g-lusca are organic supercomputers who can parse what they scan and analyse it for inconsistencies… Changes in texture that would indicate external influence. And a g-goblin can explain what they find to you in a humanoid-friendly manner."

Probably the best option, though you'd need to bring a team to maintain their mental stability this far from their network.

"Are they expensive?"

"To hire? No, not really. It's more complicated, because they don't exactly have the normal desires that naturally evolving species do. You'd have to talk to their leader. They're probably want biological samples over money or materials."

I'm sure that isn't too big an issue for Amalak.

"Alright. What else?"

"Martians. They're from one planet further from my specie's sun than I am. All telepathic, though skill and power levels vary. Two are affiliated to the Justice League, but there are plenty of others. Their entire species owes me, but they don't really have any strong attachment to either party in this trial."

The tricky part being finding someone willing to come this far out and perform the examination.

"Anything else I should know about them?"

"They're all shapeshifters and they go a bit crazy if they're left on their own for very long. Oh, and there's a low-level race war happening in their civilisation but I doubt that will matter to an outsider."

"Shapeshifters are having a race war?"

Even when it's not Earth, Earth Bullshit™ can sound crazy.

"They're telepaths, so they always know. They used to all be one race, then the Guardians invaded to stop them being super murder monsters, and iterated their fixes, and they… Stuck."

"Super-? Perhaps not. Who else?"

Ah, yes, trying to explain the backstory of the Martian people to someone entirely new to them...

"Lantern Mother of Mercy created these things called Black Mercies, which-."

"She created those… Things?"

Ah, he's heard of them, I see. Yes, they got misused, don't blame her for that...

"They were intended for use as emergency hospice care. Like euphoric painkillers, they got misused a lot."

"To put it mildly. Who else?"

Ah, dismissed quickly. And to be fair, it's hard to really share the information gleaned from their interactions.

"The techno-organic space-dweller Great Mother could probably analyse someone's mind, but I'm not sure she could do it without taking them apart. There are a small number of human telepaths, some more reliable than others."

"The genomorphs seem to be the superior choice." He sighs. "Let me speak to the others. You'll have our decision with the hour."

Honestly, when the engineered species sounds like the least troublesome option, you know you're dealing with Earth Bullshit™...

Another delay, then. Fortunately, the ship is still in transit to the site of the trial, or this would really start to annoy the Xandarians. Though OL might find himself doing a few high-speed taxi runs to get everyone in the right places to sort matters out. Still, better to have no doubt as to Zod's guilt or innocence by the time things get started.

Signaller · 2025-12-16T06:59:07+0000

Mr Zoat said:
"That's… A more personal question than I felt comfortably asking. The issue is that she didn't use it."

comfortable

Mr Zoat said:
"Yep. That would be a lot easier. It's not like Dru-Zod is any use to me."

is of any use to me.

Mr Zoat said:
"Genomorphs. They're a synthetic species from my homeworld… Somewhat based on mutated kryptonian genetic samples. They're all telepathic, but they're also… Their subspecies are adapted for particular tasks. G-gnomes are excellent telepaths, g-lusca are organic supercomputers who can parse what they scan and analyse it for inconsistencies… Changes in texture that would indicate external influence. And a g-goblin can explain what they find to you in a humanoid-friendly manner."

Did they ever find that g-succubus that stole a chunk of OL's skin?

Mr Zoat said:
They're probably want biological samples over money or materials."

They

Mr Zoat said:
"Alright. What else?"

Who else

Mr Zoat said:
"The genomorphs seem to be the superior choice." He sighs. "Let me speak to the others. You'll have our decision with the hour."

I continue to be amazed by just how much people can get done in the space of an hour. I know OL only sleeps about once a week, but what about people without rings?

Benisaperson1 · 2025-12-16T07:01:06+0000

I hope that they are not mind controled and this is just Paul being paranoid

BR549 · 2025-12-16T07:08:19+0000

Mr Zoat said:
They're from one planet further from my specie's sun than I am.

"Species" is both singular and plural, so unless Paul is referring to coinage this should be "species' ".

Darko · 2025-12-16T07:16:23+0000

Mr Zoat said:
their fault." … Telepaths. Who do you

' "Telepaths. Who'

Vaermina · 2025-12-16T08:29:19+0000

McGraww said:
Not worth the political blowback IMO. Yes the Doomsday is a very good ship, but is it as good as the ones LEGION is getting its allies to build? Also in a war the size of the Reach War, a single ship has to be absurdly good to be anything more than a rounding error, and I don't think the Kryptionians had tech quite that good.

Also, while Zod is an experienced military officer, it would probably be easier to just use telepathy to teach someone else to run the Doomsday. And that's not even getting into Zod's thought process, which between his racism and extremism, is probably not the best for acting as part of the Controller's military.

Unless Zoat has nerfed it, the Doomsday is the Kryptonian equilivant of Warworld packed into a hull a fraction of the size with defensive shielding capable of stopping pretty much anything anyone can throw at it.

Remember, the Kryptonians were one of the top tier powers in the galaxy until they turned insular.

As to Zod's thought process, Orange Lantern was perfectly willing to work with a Weaponer of Qward. So those things should be in no way a deal breaker for him.

Mr Zoat · 2025-12-16T08:40:36+0000

Signaller said:
comfortable
They
Who else

Thank you, corrected.

is of any use to me.

That's fine as it is.

Did they ever find that g-succubus that stole a chunk of OL's skin?

I don't remember that..?

I continue to be amazed by just how much people can get done in the space of an hour. I know OL only sleeps about once a week, but what about people without rings?

Now that they're in chronic but not terminal crisis mode, the SI has adopted a more normal sleep schedule. Jade being around also helps.

BR549 said:
"Species" is both singular and plural, so unless Paul is referring to coinage this should be "species' ".

Darko said:
' "Telepaths. Who'

Thank you, corrected.

McGraww · 2025-12-16T09:50:13+0000

Vaermina said:
Unless Zoat has nerfed it, the Doomsday is the Kryptonian equilivant of Warworld packed into a hull a fraction of the size with defensive shielding capable of stopping pretty much anything anyone can throw at it.

Remember, the Kryptonians were one of the top tier powers in the galaxy until they turned insular.

As to Zod's thought process, Orange Lantern was perfectly willing to work with a Weaponer of Qward. So those things should be in no way a deal breaker for him.

I'll be entirely honest, I didn't realize it was quite as strong as Warworld. I knew it was a capital ship, but there's a pretty big difference between "capital ship" and "moon ship" (or "planet ship").

As for Kryptonian science, I've never really had a great grasp on the "power scaling" of the various alien factions. I know they were one of the stronger factions, but is that Spider Guild-level, Psion-level, Reach-level, or Maltusian-level? Because there are pretty big gaps between each of those factions.

OL is willing to work with a Weaponer, because they more or less want the same thing -- to create really good weapons and use them. OL has an enemy he wants to destroy and an man to make him weapons. There's a difference between that and expecting Zod to make tactical decisions in the field.

Chaoswind · 2025-12-16T11:33:33+0000

Benisaperson1 said:
I hope that they are not mind controled and this is just Paul being paranoid

I hope this is how we find out Brainiak distracted the Kryptonians and made them stupid enough to not notice his grand theft.

We know the dude has been around for a while because the machine tyrants of Colu have been operational for decades and it even ties up with Amalak because his second in command was that Coluan... Bonus points if Braniac used the distraction genocide to steal a city of Timaron as well.

Darko · 2025-12-16T12:59:02+0000

Vaermina said:
Unless Zoat has nerfed it, the Doomsday is the Kryptonian equilivant of Warworld packed into a hull a fraction of the size with defensive shielding capable of stopping pretty much anything anyone can throw at it.

The Controllers belong to the most advanced race in the universe.

If they wanted to it would be child's play to copy the Doomsday.

Vaermina said:
As to Zod's thought process, Orange Lantern was perfectly willing to work with a Weaponer of Qward. So those things should be in no way a deal breaker for him.

He worked with Kalmin because he could make a power ring for Alan and because he wanted to have a backup if the Controllers wouldn't make more rings.

Zod by comparison is fairly easily replaceable.

With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Umm, ackchyually...

Well worn.

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Chasing the ring

Making the rounds.

At the End...

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Just zis guy, you know?

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Argent Phantasm

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Versed in the lewd.

Veteran Lurker

Not too sore, are you?

Getting sticky.

This is filth! FILTH!!

Connoisseur.

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