With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Lord Ernest · Sunday at 7:48 PM

Mr Zoat said:
As explained in the segment, under their legal code that was Dru-Zod's fault for deciding to destroy a planet. The fact she influenced some peripheral matters like the specific target isn't legally significant.

And Amalak was okay with that? To let her get practically scot-free from essentially pointing Zod at his planet? The guy that was murdering any Kryptonian he could get his hands on just for pettiness and slight revenge didn't have anything to say against someone directly involved in the tragedy?

I get not being able to do anything against the Dominion, but against their agent that is right there, as if she didn't do anything and was just a circumstancial witness or something, feels incongruous.

Blackshard · Sunday at 10:33 PM

Mr Zoat said:
As explained in the segment, under their legal code that was Dru-Zod's fault for deciding to destroy a planet. The fact she influenced some peripheral matters like the specific target isn't legally significant.

There's something deeply strange about the legal system of the genocided party assigning zero culpability to the person who specifically chose them for genocide. Sure, the guy who carried out the genocide was definitely guilty, but if anyone deserves the death penalty, the telepath who specifically decided that Timaron should die ought to be up there. Letting her off with probation after that seems like outright Bizarro logic.

Also, I can't believe Amalak is okay with this outcome. Dru-Zod didn't care who he destroyed, but Lyla did; if anyone deserves his vengeance, it's her.

Mr Zoat · Sunday at 11:36 PM

Huttj509 said:
Asks about Lyla, the response is about Ursa, then Lyla is addressed later. I think the bolded is supposed to be asking about Ursa.

Mr Zoat said:
He just felt like he needed to explain the whole thing and the thought process behind the decision.

Lord Ernest said:
And Amalak was okay with that? To let her get practically scot-free from essentially pointing Zod at his planet? The guy that was murdering any Kryptonian he could get his hands on just for pettiness and slight revenge didn't have anything to say against someone directly involved in the tragedy?

I get not being able to do anything against the Dominion, but against their agent that is right there, as if she didn't do anything and was just a circumstantial witness or something, feels incongruous.

'Okay' would be an exaggeration, but he'd spent most of his life blaming Zod. Learning that someone else was tangentially involved doesn't change how he's felt for forty years. And he's not in any position to fight the Dominion.

Blackshard said:
There's something deeply strange about the legal system of the genocided party assigning zero culpability to the person who specifically chose them for genocide. Sure, the guy who carried out the genocide was definitely guilty, but if anyone deserves the death penalty, the telepath who specifically decided that Timaron should die ought to be up there. Letting her off with probation after that seems like outright Bizarro logic.

Also, I can't believe Amalak is okay with this outcome. Dru-Zod didn't care who he destroyed, but Lyla did; if anyone deserves his vengeance, it's her.

Krypton probably didn't write the law that way with planetary bombardment in mind.

Ngamer11 · Sunday at 11:42 PM

Mr Zoat said:
'Okay' would be an exaggeration, but he'd spent most of his life blaming Zod. Learning that someone else was tangentially involved doesn't change how he's felt for forty years. And he's not in any position to fight the Dominion.

Assuming the OLC had to fight the Dominion, would Amalak give any aid possible to make sure the Dominion was crushed?

Old Knife · 2026-01-12T00:49:36+0000

I was half hoping Dru-Zod survived, signed up with the Controllers and took arms against the Reach in hopes that he eventually fights the Dominion afterwards.
Kryptonian engineered general probably is terrifying in conventional war.

Shame. the Mind control had me get my hopes up.

NightmareWarden · 2026-01-12T02:01:26+0000

Mr Zoat said:
As explained in the segment, under their legal code that was Dru-Zod's fault for deciding to destroy a planet. The fact she influenced some peripheral matters like the specific target isn't legally significant.

Okay, why aren't the green lanterns arresting her then, based on their own laws? Just "as a favor to Paul?" Is the fact that she's now freed from Dominator orders and Dominator handlers and the most important factor here? When it comes to how the space cops assign blame, I imagine they'd need to be fended off to set up her with NEMO.

I wonder if she is going to date Martyn (the first Effigy, one of the human-martian-viltrumites). I think that could end badly for him, if Lyla is committed to making bad choices and learning little.

Thank the Endless that Zod is dead. Although I'd be interested in an ashen Zod returning during any Nekron/black hand storyline.

Mr Zoat · 2026-01-12T06:36:54+0000

Changing Lanes

17th August 2013
08:03 GMT -7

"Controller Hinon! Good to see you!"

I make a point of looking around at the bustling… What would you call this? Monastery? What's the opposite of a monastery? A lot of insects glowing with the orange light around… Something that feels a lot like the Orange Central Power Battery on Tamaran. Following on behind Hinon is a gaggle of psions, dressed in blues overalls with red trim. Hinon's wearing something similar, only with the red parts extended into a thing that can't decide whether it's trying to be a robe or a cloak.

There are a couple of other Controllers around, dressed in much the same fashion. At least one gave me the side eye.

"Grayven. Is something amiss?"

"Yeah." I-. Hm. I sit down cross legged in front of her, so that I'm merely towering over her rather than completely occluding her. "I'd like you to provide me with some information, and since I hate owing people I was wondering what you'd like in return."

She gives me a flat look, folds her arms across her chest and then floats up in a cross legged posture until she's level with my head. "What information?"

"A good colony site. For humans. Breathable atmosphere, decent connection to the Dream for the magic-users-"

"Mmm."

"-and not inhabited by any intelligent species. Or too close to anyone sophisticated and highly aggressive."

"That narrows it down a great deal."

"If it was easy then I wouldn't have come to you."

"And what precisely is this information worth to you?"

"I've got a decent sized fleet. I could probably engage and destroy a Reach flotilla or two for you. I've got both boom and hush tube generators, so I could insert soldiers or a small fleet for you. I've got a mirror that can turn you into a magical pony for-"

She ducks her head slightly, blinking repeatedly at me.

"-a while, in case you feel like you could do with a rejuvenating break from your responsibilities here. Given how old you are, I imagine that you've done just about everything once or twice, but I'd be surprised if you'd ever been a magical pony."

Her face goes… Oddly blank. "Your surmise is correct. I have not."

"Then maybe it would help you relate to people."

Animatedly disgruntled Hinon comes back almost immediately. "That isn't the problem."

I smile broadly. "Illuminate me, and allow me to lighten your load." "Accept my friends-."

"Oh, don't. Let me show you something." She waves her right hand and conjures a map of… The Reach, and the abutting territory. "A bunch of squabbling nuisances, that's what we're working with. Ten thousand inhabited worlds who can't agree on 'the chair greets all attendees', despite the Reach bearing down on all of them. And that's before we get into the Reach's mind control and social manipulation."

"I… Can do something about that, but I doubt that you'd appreciate it."

"That would only work if they recognised your authority."

"Not… Strictly true. Once a little authority was delegated to me, I could work with that. You would simply need a basic agreement… Even if it was just a coordination position. And then ask my assistance… That would be enough."

"Are you trying to get control of our half of the Corps after giving your own to Vril Dox?"

"No, no, no… But I don't mind acting as a presiding officer, or tie breaker, or what have you… When it's required. And when it's not, you'd benefit from having vassals who were suddenly more inclined to work together without really wondering 'why'."

"I'll raise the idea with my brothers and sisters."

"So, no."

"It would be less than ideal, but we may get to the point that it becomes bearable. No, for now I think what we need from you-. I assume that you're not interested in worlds currently occupied by the Reach?"

"Not at present. Maybe once they're conclusively defeated. If there's a world that meets my requirements."

"You shouldn't assume that we will 'win' outright. Frankly, I would accept a harsher version of their pact with our Guardian cousins."

"Really? I mean, sure, they're big, but you've got superior force and manoeuvrability."

"'Superior'? In terms of quality, certainly. But even if we Controllers did nothing but assemble warships we couldn't hope to match their industrial output. The only way we can win is by rallying the disparate people of the region."

"So, what do you want me to do? And if I'm not enough, I have friends who can-."

I look left, where a tamaranean Orange Lantern is waving to me. I raise my left hand in acknowledgement. Of course.

"Dox is already helping you."

"The tamaranians are an extremely helpful people."

I nod. "True. I was rather hoping that you would deal with the Reach without needing to make them aware of Vega, but… Very well. I made it Dox's decision, I can hardly complain about it now. So, come on: what do you want from me, and what can you give me?"

"It's simple enough to find worlds touched by the Dream. I don't know what sort of state they're in now, but it's no great feat to update our records. I'm sure that you can find one that suits your purpose."

I nod. "Thank you. And in return?"

"I will need to consult more widely before I can give you a firm answer. I suspect… Scouting of the Reach interior, recovering parts of the enslaved population who can be purged of Reach modifications and give testimony to the doubtful."

I nod, smiling. "Not a problem at all. And what sort of level of damage would you like me to inflict? Tactical, strategic, Apokoliptic..?"

"Tactical at most. The last thing we need is your father taking an interest."

"No destroying shipyards, minimal orbital bombardments, understood. How long will it take you to make a firm decision?"

"Half an hour. The delay will be in assembling a quorum, but-" She descends, landing on her feet. "-I will begin now."

"Thank you, Controller. And in the meantime?"

"The psychological issues which caused our cousins to abandon orange light research haven't vanished in the intervening millennia, and yet you do not appear to have encountered any difficulty."

"I've made peace with my desires. And my other abilities have allowed me to regulate my ring usage."

"Still, it would be helpful if you were to give pointers to our trainers. We've had to commit more Lanterns than I like already."

"Then I would be happy to help." I ease myself up into a standing position. "Let me know when your deliberations are concluded."

Mr Zoat · 2026-01-12T06:40:56+0000

NightmareWarden said:
Okay, why aren't the green lanterns arresting her then, based on their own laws? Just "as a favor to Paul?" Is the fact that she's now freed from Dominator orders and Dominator handlers and the most important factor here? When it comes to how the space cops assign blame, I imagine they'd need to be fended off to set up her with NEMO.

The Green Lantern Corps doesn't work like that. Generally, they assist weaker polities in enforcing law and order in their Sectors. If the affected parties hold a trial and conclude that no crime happened, or at least that no significant crime happened, that's usually the end of the matter unless the structure of the universe is endangered and the Guardians need to step in.

Signaller · 2026-01-12T06:45:10+0000

Oh, this looks like fun.

Mr Zoat said:
I nod, smiling. "Not a problem at all. And what sort of level of damage would you like me to inflict? Tactical, strategic, Apokoliptic..?"

Snork.

Ngamer11 · 2026-01-12T07:04:33+0000

Mr Zoat said:
"You shouldn't assume that we will 'win' outright. Frankly, I would accept a harsher version of their pact with our Guardian cousins."

"Really? I mean, sure, they're big, but you've got superior force and manoeuvrability."

"'Superior'? In terms of quality, certainly. But even if we Controllers did nothing but assemble warships we couldn't hope to match their industrial output. The only way we can win is by rallying the disparate people of the region."

It's nice to see that the relative success of the OLC in the Paragon timeline shows how much Paul was able to get various peoples to rally to the cause against the Reach. Also, that should say 'maneuverability'.

I look left, where a tamaranian Orange Lantern is waving to me. I raise my left hand in acknowledgement. Of course.

"Dox is already helping you."

"The tamaranians are an extremely helpful people."

I nod. "True. I was rather hope that you would deal with the Reach without needing to make them aware of Vega, but… Very well. I made it Dox's decision, I can hardly complain about it now. So, come on: what do you want from me, and what can you give me?"

So now both factions of the OLC in the Renegade timeline are fighting the same enemy. I guess Paul's presence and efforts really were all the difference if the Controllers couldn't match what the Paragon OLC achieved even with the assistance of Dox and the tamaraneans. Also, those should say 'tamaranean', tamaraneans', and 'hopeful'.

I can't wait to see how differently the Renegade will train Orange Lanterns.

Darko · 2026-01-12T07:19:58+0000

Zoat, the title near the thread mark lacks the supplementary, Renegade option.

Chojin Patriarch · 2026-01-12T07:20:31+0000

Mr Zoat said:
Changing Lanes

17th August 2013
08:03 GMT -7

"Controller Hinon! Good to see you!"

And straight into a Renegade opener for a Paragon episode. I imagine their subplots will be amusing contrasts to each other. And the Renegade interacting with grumpy Granny Hinon? This will be fun.

I make a point of looking around at the bustling… What would you call this? Monastery? What's the opposite of a monastery? A lot of insects glowing with the orange light around… Something that feels a lot like the Orange Central Power Battery on Tamaran. Following on behind Hinon is a gaggle of psions, dressed in blues overalls with red trim. Hinon's wearing something similar, only with the red parts extended into a thing that can't decide whether it's trying to be a robe or a cloak.

Ah, the Controllers assembled something of a secondary Light Fountain? Or at least a stylish generator unit that serves the same purpose as a power battery charger.

There are a couple of other Controllers around, dressed in much the same fashion. At least one gave me the side eye.

"Grayven. Is something amiss?"

Wonder if that's Jevek-whatsit, the Effigy creator. I doubt he's been pursuing his exotic projects as enthusiastically in this timeline.

"Yeah." I-. Hm. I sit down cross legged in front of her, so that I'm merely towering over her rather than completely occluding her. "I'd like you to provide me with some information, and since I hate owing people I was wondering what you'd like in return."

She gives me a flat look, folds her arms across her chest and then floats up in a cross legged posture until she's level with my head. "What information?"

She's having none of his tomfoolery or obfuscation, I see. Straight to the meat of the matter.

"A good colony site. For humans. Breathable atmosphere, decent connection to the Dream for the magic-users-"

"Mmm."

"-and not inhabited by any intelligent species. Or too close to anyone sophisticated and highly aggressive."

I'd make a crack about asking for a unicorn too, but, well...

"That narrows it down a great deal."

"If it was easy then I wouldn't have come to you."

Oh, don't try to butter her up by claiming you think only she could handle this. Even if it's accurate.

"And what precisely is this information worth to you?"

"I've got a decent sized fleet. I could probably engage and destroy a Reach flotilla or two for you. I've got both boom and hush tube generators, so I could insert soldiers or a small fleet for you. I've got a mirror that can turn you into a magical pony for-"

Oh Harmony, what would a maltusian even turn into? Instant Alicorn or something even more eldritch?

She ducks her head slightly, blinking repeatedly at me.

"-a while, in case you feel like you could do with a rejuvenating break from your responsibilities here. Given how old you are, I imagine that you've done just about everything once or twice, but I'd be surprised if you'd ever been a magical pony."

I wouldn't take that bet, Renegade.

Her face goes… Oddly blank. "Your surmise is correct. I have not."

"Then maybe it would help you relate to people."

Huh. I suppose he surprised her with that offer.

Animatedly disgruntled Hinon comes back almost immediately. "That isn't the problem."

I smile broadly. "Illuminate me, and allow me to lighten your load." "Accept my friends-."

Oi, don't go trying that on her, Renegade.

"Oh, don't. Let me show you something." She waves her right hand and conjures a map of… The Reach, and the abutting territory. "A bunch of squabbling nuisances, that's what we're working with. Ten thousand inhabited worlds who can't agree on 'the chair greets all attendees', despite the Reach bearing down on all of them. And that's before we get into the Reach's mind control and social manipulation."

Hoo boy. Even worse than the Paragon timeline, then. At least they can get themselves moving in the same general direction..

"I… Can do something about that, but I doubt that you'd appreciate it."

"That would only work if they recognised your authority."

A little bit of conquest-whammy, eh? Would it work that well if he wasn't the absolute ruler, though?

"Not… Strictly true. Once a little authority was delegated to me, I could work with that. You would simply need a basic agreement… Even if it was just a coordination position. And then ask my assistance… That would be enough."

"Are you trying to get control of our half of the Corps after giving your own to Vril Dox?"

It makes sense that the Renegade let others use his Lanterns. Too much hassle on top of his existing affairs...

"No, no, no… But I don't mind acting as a presiding officer, or tie breaker, or what have you… When it's required. And when it's not, you'd benefit from having vassals who were suddenly more inclined to work together without really wondering 'why'."

"I'll raise the idea with my brothers and sisters."

"So, no."

I wouldn't be surprised to find they're as fractious as the mortal stellar nations working under them. If not for a shared dislike of the Reach, they'd have gone their own way with the Orange Light.

"It would be less than ideal, but we may get to the point that it becomes bearable. No, for now I think what we need from you-. I assume that you're not interested in worlds currently occupied by the Reach?"

"Not at present. Maybe once they're conclusively defeated. If there's a world that meets my requirements."

Perhaps for a later wave of expansion. It'll be a few centuries before the Reach can be defeated at this rate...

"You shouldn't assume that we will 'win' outright. Frankly, I would accept a harsher version of their pact with our Guardian cousins."

"Really? I mean, sure, they're big, but you've got superior force and manoeuvrability."

Renegade, you are the god of Conquest. You know how logistical matters and scale of industry can turn the tide of wars.

"'Superior'? In terms of quality, certainly. But even if we Controllers did nothing but assemble warships we couldn't hope to match their industrial output. The only way we can win is by rallying the disparate people of the region."

"So, what do you want me to do? And if I'm not enough, I have friends who can-."

Thousands of Reach worlds, all capable of turning their industrial output to fleets. Hard to beat that, even with godlike powers.

I look left, where a tamaranian Orange Lantern is waving to me. I raise my left hand in acknowledgement. Of course.

"Dox is already helping you."

Presumably to expand his options for the fabrication and study of the Orange Light.

"The tamaranians are an extremely helpful people."

I nod. "True. I was rather hope that you would deal with the Reach without needing to make them aware of Vega, but… Very well. I made it Dox's decision, I can hardly complain about it now. So, come on: what do you want from me, and what can you give me?"

Yeah, you gave them away, no telling them how to use their toys now.

"It's simple enough to find worlds touched by the Dream. I don't know what sort of state they're in now, but it's no great feat to update our records. I'm sure that you can find one that suits your purpose."

I nod. "Thank you. And in return?"

Bonus points if they're within a sector of Earth, too. For easy support and transit without Boom Tubes if needed.

"I will need to consult more widely before I can give you a firm answer. I suspect… Scouting of the Reach interior, recovering parts of the enslaved population who can be purged of Reach modifications and give testimony to the doubtful."

I nod, smiling. "Not a problem at all. And what sort of level of damage would you like me to inflict? Tactical, strategic, Apokoliptic..?"

The last might be a stretch, even now.

"Tactical at most. The last thing we need is your father taking an interest."

"No destroying shipyards, minimal orbital bombardments, understood. How long will it take you to make a firm decision?"

Honestly, Hush Tubes would radically improve the quality of life for Darkstar operations, at least until the Reach began to counter them... So best to limit their use, I guess.

"Half an hour. The delay will be in assembling a quorum, but-" She descends, landing on her feet. "-I will begin now."

"Thank you, Controller. And in the meantime?"

Since I don't doubt the Renegade would sit and wait for an answer...

"The psychological issues which caused our cousins to abandon orange light research haven't vanished in the intervening millennia, and yet you do not appear to have encountered any difficulty."

"I've made peace with my desires. And my other abilities have allowed me to regulate my ring usage."

Not Enlightened, though. And from the sounds of it, they've got a lot more Lanterns going full Larfleeze than the Paragon's side.

"Still, it would be helpful if you were to give pointers to our trainers. We've had to commit more Lanterns than I like already."

"Then I would be happy to help." I ease myself up into a standing position. "Let me know when your deliberations are concluded."

I'm guessing they aren't using a 'hierarchy of needs' concept to reframe their desires, for a start...

I guess things haven't been going as well on this side of the timeline for the Maltusians. Probably not even a proper coalition like NEMO to provide a unifying banner to align their 'squabbling nuisances' under. It's interesting to see how they've been muddling along without OL's contributions. And doing much less good...

Oglymogly · 2026-01-12T07:23:37+0000

Mr Zoat said:
The psychological issues which caused our cousins to abandon orange light research haven't vanished in the intervening millennia, and yet you do not appear to have encountered any difficulty."

"I've made peace with my desires. And my other abilities have allowed me to regulate my ring usage."

"Still, it would be helpful if you were to give pointers to our trainers. We've had to commit more Lanterns than I like already."

Really nice to see the differences between timelines. I wonder if which was more influential on the Corp, OL's methodology on picking and teaching recruits, or his hand picked recruits.

NightmareWarden · 2026-01-12T07:38:02+0000

Mr Zoat said:
The Green Lantern Corps doesn't work like that. Generally, they assist weaker polities in enforcing law and order in their Sectors. If the affected parties hold a trial and conclude that no crime happened, or at least that no significant crime happened, that's usually the end of the matter unless the structure of the universe is endangered and the Guardians need to step in.

I sympathize with Sinestro, when he stepped up to protect his world from its doom. I sympathize with Nabu for how he handled magical criminals, skipping any trials with the pretense of "I am the foremost authority and am empowered to make judgments on this time of criminality."

This frustration should be aimed at legislators and judges I suppose, as Paul and Grayven have spelled out many times over.

BR549 · 2026-01-12T07:47:34+0000

Ngamer11 said:
Also, that should say 'maneuverability'.

Not in his country, fellow Colonial.

NightmareWarden · 2026-01-12T08:49:06+0000

So the Renegade's darkstars are probably sidelined when it comes to authority for their leadership and resources. They might be strictly counter-espionage forces right now, if mixed squads of lanterns and darkstars are uncommon. Grayven's failure to heed Vril Dox II's reports (which led to one industrial world imploding) likely taints how much of his judgement is valued.

The confrontation with "Uncompromising Conquest" Grayven, touching the omega force, and Artemis'big scene are back here on page 98 for anyone who enjoyed it as much as I did.

I don't really understand what consequences (if any) have sprung up from the failed Persuader army though.

Mr Zoat · 2026-01-12T09:34:00+0000

Ngamer11 said:
Also, that should say 'maneuverability'.

Not in my country, colonial.

Also, those should say 'tamaranean', tamaraneans', and 'hopeful'.

Hoping, actually, but thank you, corrected.

Darko said:
Zoat, the title near the thread mark lacks the supplementary, Renegade option.

Thank you, corrected.

NightmareWarden said:
So the Renegade's darkstars are probably sidelined when it comes to authority for their leadership and resources. They might be strictly counter-espionage forces right now, if mixed squads of lanterns and darkstars are uncommon.

Quite the opposite, actually. With the higher rate of Orange Lantern mental episodes and the reduced buy-in from the Reach's neighbours, Darkstars are more important in his timeline.

Mr Zoat · 2026-01-13T06:17:42+0000

18th August 2013
06:47 GMT -5

Just outside of Gotham City, there's a swamp.

Slaughter Swamp.

It used to be miles outside of the city. When Cyrus Gold resurrected as a superzombie, he had to walk for miles before getting to the train yard on the city's outskirts and running into Alan. But seventy years and a whole lot of urban expansion later and it's part of the Slaughter Swamp State Park, a place whose only non-Grundy related claim to fame is that it's the one area of greenery in Gotham that Pamela Isley turned her nose up at.

Precisely why, I'm not sure. It was used as an illegal dumping ground for just about everything at some point or another, probably only escaping getting contaminated worse due to the difficulty in transporting large amounts of waste far enough inside to disappear it. Naturally, it was one of the places I cleaned out, but…

I know from the comics that Zor had a base here, a cabin which I found during my initial foray. Fortunately, no one was home. Alan was surprised when I asked about it; apparently Sargon the Sorcerer fought a magician called Zor once in 1936 and beat him pretty easily. Trapped him in his own paralysis spell, which… Doesn't sound like a good idea to me, but if he didn't cause any trouble afterwards...

Or maybe Sargon didn't want to just tell Alan that he killed the bastard.

Anyway, the hut's still there-. Or 'here', and it seems as good a place as any to-

"How did you find this place?"

-try this.

Angelica Blaze is staring at every part of it like it's about to grow teeth and bite her.

"I wanted to see if there was something here that was causing Cyrus Gold to reanimate. And… There was an event in the thirties. A boxer named Mo Colley went crazy and murdered a couple of police officers before being shot dead. Evidence of Sheeda involvement. When I checked Slaughter Swamp there were sheeda remnants. No living sheeda, and I checked very thoroughly."

Sargon never gave Alan a detailed description of where he left Zor… Assuming that he actually left him there and didn't just do him in. But there's a circle in one of the back rooms where the dust isn't quite as deep as it is elsewhere.

"And I wanted to make sure that there weren't any residual environmental contaminants. This is supposed to be a nature reserve. So!" I clap my hands together. "Ready to start?"

She's still staring at our surroundings.

"No?"

"Why am I here, Paul?"

"Because you can perform the spell and because you're best placed to handle things if it goes wrong. And because I wanted you to confirm my suspicion that there was something off about this place and cleanse it in golden fire if there was."

"…" She nods cautiously. "Yes, this place will be cleansed."

"Good show. So? Do you need me to set up the-?"

"I know how to summon demons."

She takes a piece of chalk out of her handbag and crouches down to begin drawing on the hardwood floor.

"You're..? Going to do that manually?"

"I can't enchant it with divine magic and then command it to draw a summoning circle, can I?"

"Apparently not? Honestly, I thought it would be okay given that we're not subverting the natural order of Creation."

"Why..? Do you think..?" She checks her work against a design on her phone screen, then nods to herself. "That demons exist?"

"Classically, demons exist to tempt mortals into sin, and torment the ones who are tempted. It works as a metaphor as well as a literal description of events."

"And how do you square that with demons walking around on the Earth and murdering people?"

"Never said that the test was easy. 'The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away'. A good monotheist is supposed to accept whatever strife comes their way, including demonic evisceration, in the sure knowledge that things will be made right in Heaven."

"And yet you worship the Olympians."

"Well, yes. Because it's bullshit, isn't it? Demons can get hold of the souls of the innocent -and keep them too- and the angels don't seem to have a clue what they're doing. I went to Heaven and got Boss Smiley, for goodness' sake. And meanwhile..."

I take a small piece of kahuuite out of my harness and hold it out.

"This can exist. If we were in Dogma, this would be enough to unmake creation."

"What do you mean 'in Dogma'?"

"The film? With Jay and Silent Bob?"

"I haven't seen it." She shakes her head. "I usually find religious-themed films irritating."

"Since you got..?" I gesture to my back.

"No. Just always."

I frown, but she focuses on her drawing. "Do you want to expand upon that answer at all, or are you trying to suggest to me that I should shut up? I'm not good at taking hints."

"Everyone knows that. Uhh. Alright, it's because it's usually flat out wrong, sometimes because the story is being used as an allegory for modern politics, or they didn't understand the theology, or they skipped parts… And sometimes I can see the hypocrisy in the actors and crew and it takes me out of it."

"Was that a problem when you were a demon?"

"People believing nonsense wasn't a practical problem. It just lowered my opinion of humans generally, and humans were the species I was surrounded by."

"Ah." I nod. "Understandable. So what is it about this building that makes you want to burn it?"

"I'd be astonished if you really didn't know."

"I know roughly. Or at least I suspect that I do. But I don't know what it feels like to you."

"It feels like the place where there should be the presence of Creation has been twisted and frayed, rewritten by a profane hand."

"Sounds about right. His name either is or was Zor. He's on my unmake-on-sight list."

"I will make a note of it." She stands, giving the shape a final check. "There."

I nod, orange light flowing from my rings-.

A figure appears in the pentagram, a woman in a red cloak with a tall white half-mask covering the left side of her face. "I thought that you'd forgotten me."

"I'm really sorry. Things got a bit crazy. But, we're pretty sure that's not going to happen again."

"I would hope not. Still, where abandonment is concerned you're doing better than my 'father'."

"Right." I step forwards, wiping out part of the pentagram with my right foot. "Welcome back to Earth, Mazikeen. How about I show you around?"

Signaller · 2026-01-13T06:24:42+0000

Mr Zoat said:
"I feels like the place where there should be the presence of Creation has been twisted and frayed, rewritten by a profane hand."

It feels?

Vaermina · 2026-01-13T06:30:57+0000

Mr Zoat said:
"Classically, demons exist to tempt mortals into sin, and torment the ones who are tempted. It works as a metaphor as well as a literal description of events."

"And how do you square that with demons walking around on the Earth and murdering people?"

"Never said that the test was easy. 'The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away'. A good monotheist is supposed to accept whatever strife comes their way, including demonic evisceration, in the sure knowledge that things will be made right in Heaven."

Yeah... See... If you want to tell Orange Lantern he's wrong about something you can't really beat around the bush about it.

Otherwise he will twist out of it.

CrazyNoVa · 2026-01-13T06:33:48+0000

Wait, where was Mazikeen summoned from? If it was from Earth, then she was working at Lucifer's bar, but if it was from Hell, then this means this story takes place before Lucifer makes his second creation.

Has Paul checked to see if Elaine Belloc exists in this universe?

Chojin Patriarch · 2026-01-13T07:01:53+0000

Mr Zoat said:
18th August 2013
06:47 GMT -5

Just outside of Gotham City, there's a swamp.

Slaughter Swamp.

Oh-ho. The birthplace (and rebirth-place) of Solomon Grundy. Sometimes a magnet for weirdness, though not so bad as Swamp Thing's home grounds. OL running some routine checks or on a mission proper, i wonder?

It used to be miles outside of the city. When Cyrus Gold resurrected as a superzombie, he had to walk for miles before getting to the train yard on the city's outskirts and running into Alan. But seventy years and a whole lot of urban expansion later and it's part of the Slaughter Swamp State Park, a place whose only non-Grundy related claim to fame is that it's the one area of greenery in Gotham that Pamala Isley turned her nose up at.

Which takes a lot, I would imagine. No doubt spiritually contaminated in a way she could sense, if not explain.

Precisely why, I'm not sure. It was used as an illegal dumping ground for just about everything at some point or another, probably only escaping getting contaminated worse due to the difficulty in transporting large amounts of waste far enough inside to disappear it. Naturally, it was one of the places I cleaned out, but…

An accidental geomantic cocktail almost as powerful as a Lazarus Pit, I imagine. But one that is bound more or less to one being...

I know from the comics that Zor had a base here, a cabin which I found during my initial foray. Fortunately, no one was home. Alan was surprised when I asked about it; apparently Sargon the Sorcerer fought a magician called Zor once in 1936 and beat him pretty easily. Trapped him in his own paralysis spell, which… Doesn't sound like a good idea to me, but if he didn't cause any trouble afterwards...

Certainly, depending on how effective said paralysis spell was, and how long-lasting, it probably worked well enough until he could hand him off to Fate.

Or maybe Sargon didn't want to just tell Alan that he killed the bastard.

Anyway, the hut's still there-. Or 'here', and it seems as good a place as any to-

Eh, lethal force would probably be a preferred option in some cases of the Golden Age.

"How did you find this place?"

-try this.

Angelica Blaze is staring at every part of it like it's about to grow teeth and bite her.

Given some of the freaky shit in the swamp, I wouldn't be surprised if it could.

"I wanted to see if there was something here that was causing Cyrus Gold to reanimate. And… There was an event in the thirties. A boxer named Mo Colley went crazy and murdered a couple of police officers before being shot dead. Evidence of Sheeda involvement. When I checked Slaughter Swamp there were sheeda remnants. No living sheeda, and I checked very thoroughly."

Not surprising, given the events of the 'Seven Soldiers' meta-series. Which are highly unlikely to have occurred in this timeline, given Klarion's fate and the involvement of OL.

Sargon never gave Alan a detained description of where he left Zor… Assuming that he actually left him there and didn't just do him in. But there's a circle in one of the back rooms where the dust isn't quite as deep as it is elsewhere.

"And I wanted to make sure that there weren't any residual environmental contaminants. This is supposed to be a nature reserve. So!" I clap my hands together. "Ready to start?"

Hopefully it hasn't been used anytime recently. There's dust and then there's dust you know?

She's still staring at our surroundings.

"No?"

"Why am I here, Paul?"

The cosmic Author felt like giving you a scene or two in the spotlight? But really, she is one of the League's most experienced magicians, especially when it comes to infernal arts.

"Because you can perform the spell and because you're best placed to handle things if it goes wrong. And because I wanted you to confirm my suspicion that there was something off about this place and cleanse it in golden fire if there was."

"…" She nods cautiously. "Yes, this place will be cleansed."

Wonder if she felt an odd twinge from the wings or not... Certainly, they'd be itching to purify the place.

"Good show. So? Do you need me to set up the-?"

"I know how to summon demons."

Yes, but OL can do it a lot more precisely, especially given the dust on the ground, which may cause deficiencies in the binding circles you'll be drawing.

She takes a piece of chalk out of her handbag and crouches down to begin drawing on the hardwood floor.

"You're..? Going to do that manually?"

"I can't enchant it with divine magic and then command it to draw a summoning circle, can I?"

Not even a though of telekinesis, or does the sanctic energies of the wings pervade every spell she casts, no matter how simple, hmm?

"Apparently not? Honestly, I thought it would be okay given that we're not subverting the natural order of Creation."

"Why..? Do you think..?" She checks her work against a design on her phone screen, then nods to herself. "That demons exist?"

So the Presence did intend for them to exist, borne out of the broken and bleeding fabric of reality where the First of the Fallen crashed down?

I bet that'd frustrate some to learn that.

"Classically, demons exist to tempt mortals into sin, and torment the ones who are tempted. It works as a metaphor as well as a literal description of events."

"And how do you square that with demons walking around on the Earth and murdering people?"

Changing methods for a changing era? Been a long time since you could just offer some lonely old 'wizard' a succubus and let things run their course.

Then again, some folks these days...

"Never said that the test was easy. 'The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away'. A good monotheist is supposed to accept whatever strife comes their way, including demonic evisceration, in the sure knowledge that things will be made right in Heaven."

"And yet you worship the Olympians."

At least with them, they don't lie to your faces about things. And they're really just Bronze-age folks of the Aegean regions writ large.

"Well, yes. Because it's bullshit, isn't it? Demons can get hold of the souls of the innocent -and keep them too- and the angels don't seem to have a clue what they're doing. I went to Heaven and got Boss Smiley, for goodness' sake. And meanwhile..."

I take a small piece of kahuuite out of my harness and hold it out.

I wouldn't be surprised if the angels were running on autopilot in terms of their operations. "It has been done this way before, so it will be done this way always."

"This can exist. If we were in Dogma, this would be enough to unmake creation."

"What do you mean 'in Dogma'?"

"The film? With Jay and Silent Bob?"

Honestly, I'd be surprised if it existed here, given the other variations in pop culture.

"I haven't seen it." She shakes her head. "I usually find religious-themed film irritating."

"Since you got-?" I gesture to my back.

Imagine people trash-talking your 'people' by their depictions in media, because people thought they were fictional? Wouldn't you be a little salty about it?

"No. Just always."

I frown, but she focuses on her drawing. "Do you want to expand upon that answer at all, or are you trying to suggest to me that I should shut up? I'm not good at taking hints."

Good to see he's able to recognise that about himself these days. Even if he doesn't always make it clear now and then.

"Everyone knows that. Uhh. Alright, it's because it's usually flat out wrong, sometimes because the story is being used as an allegory for modern politics, or they didn't understand the theology, or they skipped parts… And sometimes I can see the hypocrisy in the actors and crew and it takes me out of it."

Well, they are but human. 'To err is...', and all that. And them getting details wrong probably made it easier to fool those who blindly fumbled their way into summonings.

"Was that a problem when you were a demon?"

"People believing nonsense wasn't a practical problem. It just lowered my opinion of humans generally, and humans were the species I was surrounded by."

So general misanthropy and a soundly confirmed knowledge that 'I'm surrounded by idiots.' Understandable.

"Ah." I nod. "Understandable. So what is it about this building that makes you want to burn it?"

"I'd be astonished if you really didn't know."

It probably looks very different to his Avarice-aligned senses than it does to your spiritual ones.

"I know roughly. Or at least I suspect that I do. But I don't know what it feels like to you."

"I feels like the place where there should be the presence of Creation has been twisted and frayed, rewritten by a profane hand."

Like a cigarette burn on the edge of a tapestry, eh? A place of power for the infernal, because the light recoils in horror?

"Sounds about right. He name either is or was Zor. He's on my unmake-on-sight list."

"I will make a note of it." She stands, giving the shape a final check. "There."

Wonder if it was just Zor or if he was once called Zoriel. Not to be confused with Zauriel, of course.

I nod, orange light flowing from my rings-.

A figure appears in the pentagram, a woman in a red cloak with a tall white half-mask covering the left side of her face. "I thought that you'd forgotten me."

Ah, Mazikeen? OL going to spend a little time with the little avarice demon not-daughter, eh? Her voice unaccented due to some applied healing by OL, if I remember right...

"I'm really sorry. Things got a bit crazy. But, we're pretty sure that's not going to happen again."

"I would hope not. Still, where abandonment is concerned you're doing better than my 'father'."

"Right." I step forwards, wiping out part of the pentagram with my right foot. "Welcome back to Earth, Mazikeen. How about I show you around?"

I suppose she doesn't get to walk the mortal world too often these days.

I suppose this is a bit of a difference from his previous recent 'jobs'. Wonder if this is a formal visit, a check-in with the lords of hell, or just a little bit of a holiday for the dark lady. Though I don't expect this to be the sole focus of the episode, I can't help but worry that things will happen to extend her stay...

BoML · 2026-01-13T07:02:49+0000

Mr Zoat said:
It used to be miles outside of the city. When Cyrus Gold resurrected as a superzombie, he had to walk for miles before getting to the train yard on the city's outskirts and running into Alan. But seventy years and a whole lot of urban expansion later and it's part of the Slaughter Swamp State Park, a place whose only non-Grundy related claim to fame is that it's the one area of greenery in Gotham that Pamala Isley turned her nose up at.

A bit late, but happy new year, Mr Zoat.

Also, the bolded should be "Pamela".

EgyptianDio · 2026-01-13T07:06:05+0000

CrazyNoVa said:
Wait, where was Mazikeen summoned from? If it was from Earth, then she was working at Lucifer's bar, but if it was from Hell, then this means this story takes place before Lucifer makes his second creation.

Has Paul checked to see if Elaine Belloc exists in this universe?

Pretty sure that Maze is currently the queen of Hell or some similar position. But yeah, Paul definitely should check on Elaine Belloc.

Z000 · 2026-01-13T07:15:22+0000

Vaermina said:
Yeah... See... If you want to tell Orange Lantern he's wrong about something you can't really beat around the bush about it.

Otherwise he will twist out of it.

i don't get theology stuff like this

what is Paul twisting ?

Darko · 2026-01-13T07:18:00+0000

Mr Zoat said:
Angelica Blaze is staring at every part of it like it's about to grow teeth and bite her.

It very well might.

Mr Zoat said:
gave Alan a detained description

"detailed"

Mr Zoat said:
eligious-themed film irritating."

"films"

Mr Zoat said:
. He name either is or

"His name"

CrazyNoVa said:
Wait, where was Mazikeen summoned from? If it was from Earth, then she was working at Lucifer's bar, but if it was from Hell, then this means this story takes place before Lucifer makes his second creation.

Has Paul checked to see if Elaine Belloc exists in this universe?

EgyptianDio said:
Pretty sure that Maze is currently the queen of Hell or some similar position. But yeah, Paul definitely should check on Elaine Belloc.

They met before Anti-Life hit.

She's the leader of the Odium.

CrazyNoVa · 2026-01-13T08:13:01+0000

Darko said:
They met before Anti-Life hit.

She's the leader of the Odium.

I think I remember something about this, but remind me: When and where was that?

Mr Zoat · 2026-01-13T08:35:31+0000

Signaller said:
It feels?

Thank you, corrected.

CrazyNoVa said:
Wait, where was Mazikeen summoned from? If it was from Earth, then she was working at Lucifer's bar, but if it was from Hell, then this means this story takes place before Lucifer makes his second creation.

That's an interesting assumption with no basis in this story that you've made there.

Has Paul checked to see if Elaine Belloc exists in this universe?

He's never heard of anyone by that name.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Not surprising, given the events of the 'Seven Soldiers' meta-series. Which are highly unlikely to have occurred in this timeline, given Klarion's fate and the involvement of OL.

It turns out that 'Klarion' is a pretty common Croatoan name.

BoML said:
Also, the bolded should be "Pamela".

Thank you, corrected.

Since you got-?

Change this, Future Me.

Darko said:
"detailed"
"films"
"His name"

Thank you, corrected.

They met before Anti-Life hit.

She's the leader of the Odium.

Well remembered.

Chaoswind · 2026-01-13T08:53:04+0000

If the objective is to cleanse the swamp why are they summoning demons and the girlfriend of Saturnus no less?

Vaermina · 2026-01-13T08:58:43+0000

Z000 said:
i don't get theology stuff like this

what is Paul twisting ?

She asked him why he thought demons exist.

Not why one highly specific branch of an Earth religion thought they did.

With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

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