With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Mr Zoat · 2026-03-12T08:35:07+0000

BR549 said:
"a", I believe should go here.

Duke Long said:
'changes'
'we'
'hue'

Thank you, corrected.

Hey, he didn't explain it! Why did the Provider have tron lines?

The Spectre is aware that Grayven doesn't think he's Other Grayven, and wanted to emphasise that the Providers were his fault.

WereDragon · 2026-03-12T10:18:57+0000

Mr Zoat said:
"No-." I frown. "No, you've got me confused for the other Grayven. The clone I got merged with. He's the one who recruited the Citizenry, I'm the one who rallied Vega to stop them."

"No. You're not."

…

While he can probably be trusted to be honest, I very much question his expertise and perspective. Just because he is sure doesn't mean he is correct.

Last words, Spectre?"

"Your evil will not stand."

Neat perhaps but kinda boring. That is the sort of line Freezer would be counting in the high triple digits.

I step forwards and stab his host in the heart with the Sword of the Fallen.

Safer in the short term, but almost guaranteed to cause trouble later down the line.

Dur'id the Druid · 2026-03-12T11:38:10+0000

Ngamer11 said:
I hope Paul never meets the Spectre and the latter stays trapped forever in the Paragon timeline.

Most likely to happen from here is that the specter is going to try being the punisher without the skills or power. Then he'll be going to hell like anyone else that acts like that.

Junzahkrii · 2026-03-12T12:13:38+0000

So renegade paul is dead huh.

CrazyNoVa · 2026-03-12T13:08:21+0000

ShadowScion626 said:
Oh, that's a good one. But yeah, situations like that always felt like plot-induced stupidity to me, because the Spectre should absolutely be smart and wise enough to know that they can't possibly fight Gods equal-opposite counterpart and win, yet the plot needed for the Spectre to stand aside and the Absence out, so ergo plot induced arrogance.

Equal-opposite counterpart, eh?

I guess you could say that if God/The Great Light/The Presence is the Source, then Anti-God/The Great Darkness/The Absence is simply, The Destination. The former is called The Source, because it is the beginning of all things where everything is made, and in turn, that would make The Great Darkness The Destination, because it is where all things go to end. I guess that would make the Great Darkness the DC counterpart to Marvel's The One Below All. I guess it's a greater theme in DC's cosmology: complimentary opposites. Action and reaction. Creation and destruction. White light of life and black light of death. Infinity and Finality. Life and Anti-Life.

And of course, since the DC universe is one giant story, one could argue that they also represent the two most essential, rudimentary parts of any story: The Beginning and The End.

Darko · 2026-03-12T13:20:22+0000

Junzahkrii said:
So renegade paul is dead huh.

I think therefore I am.

As far as Renegade is concerned he's the real deal.

Jankl · 2026-03-12T13:56:55+0000

I think both Renegade-Grayven and Grayven-16 are sort of Dead. The current grayven is both and neither since they merged together.

Zig · 2026-03-12T14:06:02+0000

MajorPane said:
Incarnating the Wrath of God as a human feels like you've accidentally anti-christed. There's no way this doesnt end, heh, apocalyptically.

Would it be as a human, or is it gonna be on this planet as a native... which isn't possible. Could be as a member of the species of the current host?

Bigreader said:
Is the specter a trustworthy source of information about whether this version is graven or graven Paul? Because original Paul didn't have a soul by this universe's standards. So for all intents and purposes, he could be that tall just more, we've graven, added in.

WereDragon said:
While he can probably be trusted to be honest, I very much question his expertise and perspective. Just because he is sure doesn't mean he is correct.

Junzahkrii said:
So renegade paul is dead huh.

Darko said:
I think therefore I am.

As far as Renegade is concerned he's the real deal.

Jankl said:
I think both Renegade-Grayven and Grayven-16 are sort of Dead. The current grayven is both and neither since they merged together.

OG Renegade had no soul and wasn't in the book of Destiny. It's questionable if Spectre would have been able to read him at all at that point. Then a Father Box made a soul for him thinking he was original Grayven so it essentially gave him Grayven's soul. Could Spectre have known the difference at that point? Probably. Then they merged and Renegade took over the OG Grayven body. So from Spectre's perspective, Grayven's soul is piloting Grayven's body. He's likely seen as guilty of the sins of both,

Steelplaza · 2026-03-12T14:58:21+0000

I guess the Spectre was never going to stick around given Zoat's dislike for the character, but that felt a little prefunctory.

I don't know, it's always a little rough to see characters Zoat dislikes done dirty. Yeah, there's the side of the character who pointlessly rants at characters who are doing good and seems utterly unreasonable. That's there, it's been used, it's a fair interpretation. But there have been plenty of Spectre comic book appearances where he's not like that and has been used in a more interesting way. Or just when it feels satisfying to see him deliver ironic punishments to bastards who really, really did have it coming.

Mr Zoat · 2026-03-12T15:20:39+0000

Steelplaza said:
I guess the Spectre was never going to stick around given Zoat's dislike for the character, but that felt a little prefunctory.

I don't know, it's always a little rough to see characters Zoat dislikes done dirty. Yeah, there's the side of the character who pointlessly rants at characters who are doing good and seems utterly unreasonable. That's there, it's been used, it's a fair interpretation. But there have been plenty of Spectre comic book appearances where he's not like that and has been used in a more interesting way. Or just when it feels satisfying to see him deliver ironic punishments to bastards who really, really did have it coming.

There have, but the first one I read where he wasn't like that was the one I read for Zor's origin story a month or so ago. The run that was most memorable to me was the time he was merged with Crispus Allen. Oh, and the time he worked with Eclipso and set out to murder every magic user on the planet. I've never seen him actually be good.

I guess I'm like the guy who doesn't understand why the Spider-Man in the films is taking pictures for a newspaper when they've only seen him as a school teacher in the comics.

Ngamer11 · 2026-03-12T15:35:44+0000

Mr Zoat said:
here have, but the first one I read where he wasn't like that was the one I read for Zor's origin story a month or so ago. The run that was most memorable to me was the time he was merged with Crispus Allen. Oh, and the time he worked with Eclipso and set out to murder every magic user on the planet. I've never seen him actually be good.

I guess I'm like the guy who doesn't understand why the Spider-Man in the films is taking pictures for a newspaper when they've only seen him as a school teacher in the comics.

Is this confirmation that the Spectre will never appear in the Paragon timeline as you don't like the character and have already written what you want done to him here in the Renegade timeline?

PDV · 2026-03-12T16:14:21+0000

I've read one Spectre comic and it's from the early JSA days, where he was more or less Dr. Strange in a green hood. It makes it pretty strange to see how extreme modern Spectre's gotten.

CrazyNoVa · 2026-03-12T17:39:12+0000

PDV said:
I've read one Spectre comic and it's from the early JSA days, where he was more or less Dr. Strange in a green hood. It makes it pretty strange to see how extreme modern Spectre's gotten.

Yeah, modern day Spectre is basically like a more fanatical Ghost Rider.

Vaermina · 2026-03-12T20:08:08+0000

Mr Zoat said:
"No-." I frown. "No, you've got me confused for the other Grayven. The clone I got merged with. He's the one who recruited the Citizenry, I'm the one who rallied Vega to stop them."

"No. You're not."

…

Yes... Which is what I've been saying...

Mr Zoat said:
"Okay, fine. Other option is that I kill you with this." I draw the Sword of the Fallen with my left hand. "This has the interesting effect of causing you to incarnate as a mortal. No magic power, but you can work on your morals and maybe earn your way back into the Silver City. Which I… Vaguely recall is the whole point of this exercise."

Why is he assuming that will actually work on him instead of just breaking whatever binds him to the host?

NightmareWarden · 2026-03-12T20:45:36+0000

Mr Zoat said:
"Kon, that's not safe. If they breach it-."

"Then they'll have got through my kinetic shield and I'll still have my environmental shield."

"get through"

So it was an angel. If reincarnating him is actually DC-God's plan, acting through Grayven, then that's wild. I mean, Grayven didn't get a trip to heaven after going to hell.

Darko · 2026-03-12T21:49:43+0000

Vaermina said:
Yes... Which is what I've been saying

Congratulations!

Neither Renegade or anyone else cares!

Plus the Spectre still remains a questionable source of info.

Vaermina said:
Why is he assuming that will actually work on him instead of just breaking whatever binds him to the host?

Because so far it's worked on any mystical entity it's been used on, so it's safe to assume that it would work on him.

Stsword · 2026-03-12T22:29:30+0000

PDV said:
I've read one Spectre comic and it's from the early JSA days, where he was more or less Dr. Strange in a green hood. It makes it pretty strange to see how extreme modern Spectre's gotten.

The Spectre has a a built in excuse for changing his personality- His host.

Hal, while the Spectre, basically said "Vengeance? Screw that, we're now the spirit of redemption."

With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

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