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Commercial Break (Worm / Slut Life) (Borderline SFW)

Should I post 2.9 a week early or keep to the normal schedule? 2.10 will be on 11/13 regardless.

  • Yes, post 2.9 on 10/23

    Votes: 13 48.1%
  • No, wait until 10/30

    Votes: 14 51.9%

  • Total voters
    27
  • Poll closed .
My least favorite character by the end of reading Deathly Hallows (and finishing the dry heaving) was Hermione Granger. Harry's the designated "Retarded Noble Git" by that point, so he's unsalvageable, but Hermione's supposed to be the brainy one????
*insert Obi-Wan "You were the Chosen One!" clip here*

If a thrown object can hurt a wizard, that shows kinetic weaponry can harm wizards. And guess what growing up in the last years of the Cold War mean? Lots of curricula about the Cold War... and WWII... and WWI, which meant automatic weapons and their effects on exposed targets would be a Big Deal. And being bookish... the absolute best excuse I can come up with for Hermione not deciding to use guns is "British, thus gun control laws and public consciousness are less gun-happy".

You decide your parents are too stupid to make their own decisions because you're completely kool-aided into believing wizards are superior. That's understandable because Teenage Idiocy.

You fail to recognize a war of genocide (which you should be very well-read in) and take the appropriate responses? And you're supposed to be the bright one?

Each particular bit of stupidity is comprehensible or rationalizable, if barely. But put together and ascribed to THE BRAINY ONE?
I spit at Rowling's portrayal of a "competent" female. Because everyone knows that when it comes down to the wire, the female of the species is far more dangerous than the male.
I just want to point out that the characters in HP were taken out of the British Education system at what. 11? I'm not surprised that knowledge about world wars and guns slipped the cracks when she was reading all the books on magic.
 
Due to the situation forced on Taylor at Winslow, she basically had to act meek. That's a far cry from actually being meek.
Wrong. Taylor did not have to add meek (at least not with authorities), she could have, and should have complained about the bullying, not just sit there and take it.

Yes, I know there's a WoG that she actually did complain somehow without leaving any paper trail, or telling her father about it, except that's impossible. The only explanations that fit canon are:
1)Taylor was so meek passive she never pushed a complaint to the point anyone would have to actually notice it.
2)Some of of mind control effect to get the staff at Winslow to forget about all those complaints and not give the trio even symbolic punishments while keeping her father in the dark.
 
Wrong. Taylor did not have to add meek (at least not with authorities), she could have, and should have complained about the bullying, not just sit there and take it.

Yes, I know there's a WoG that she actually did complain somehow without leaving any paper trail, or telling her father about it, except that's impossible. The only explanations that fit canon are:
1)Taylor was so meek passive she never pushed a complaint to the point anyone would have to actually notice it.
2)Some of of mind control effect to get the staff at Winslow to forget about all those complaints and not give the trio even symbolic punishments while keeping her father in the dark.
3) The complaints were suppressed for the Wards money, and because Sophia was a track star, etc/etc/etc.

I've been in similar situations. My main bully in primary school once got a group of his friends to chase me down on bikes before beating me on school grounds, because they could, because everyone refused to do anything about them. When a book I brought to school from home was ruined, I was told by the principal that I should work with the bully to find out what happened, and that the school wouldn't be expending any effort, because I knew nothing beyond I came back to my bag in class, to find multiple pages glued together. Despite extensive complaints and parental involvement.
 
3) The complaints were suppressed for the Wards money,and because Sophia was a track star, etc/etc/etc.
Sophia wasn't a Ward, and wouldn't be much of a track star, certainly not enough of one to have a bunch of people risk jail time to keep her from getting detention, or some other minor penalty that won't stop her from competing (assuming they decided

Despite extensive complaints and parental involvement.
Look the school not punishing the bullies is quite belivable, not problem with that. The school suppressing the complaints and hiding them from Danny is not.
The former is very easy for a bureaucrat to justify, especially if the victim lacks any hard evidence, the second is illegal and is risking jail time not just getting fired for no reason.
After Sophia joins the wards, keeping everything quiet to keep whatever benefits the school gets from having her there is barely plausible, before it's utterly impossible.
 
Wrong. Taylor did not have to add meek (at least not with authorities), she could have, and should have complained about the bullying, not just sit there and take it.

Yes, I know there's a WoG that she actually did complain somehow without leaving any paper trail, or telling her father about it, except that's impossible. The only explanations that fit canon are:
1)Taylor was so meek passive she never pushed a complaint to the point anyone would have to actually notice it.
2)Some of of mind control effect to get the staff at Winslow to forget about all those complaints and not give the trio even symbolic punishments while keeping her father in the dark.
But what is believable and fits canon?

1 person complains about a bullying incident.

5+ 'witnesses' all give a different story painting the accuser as the bad one.

No evidence but word of mouth. 5 vs 1, guess who wins.

The person making the original complaint gets punished.

Repeat multiple times until the girl is viewed by staff as a troublemaker, and any bullying done is viewed as people protecting themselves from said 'troublemaker'.

It's like the boy who cried wolf, only he was telling the truth from the start... Yet no one believed him. Eventually he's just gotta stop telling people when the wolf shows up.

Note that nowhere in this process is a record taken of the bullying complaint, because it's just an attention seeking liar making stories. There are, however, record against the person making those complaints... For bullying no less.

---

And I've lived through this, so don't even try and say it's not realistic. And you really don't want to know the steps I had to take to make it end (legality is a very flexible thing to a desperate 12 year old; and no, no one got hurt... physically).
 
Repeat multiple times until the girl is viewed by staff as a troublemaker, and any bullying done is viewed as people protecting themselves from said 'troublemaker'.
That is quite belivable, however it is explicitly CONTRADICTED by canon.

In canon there was no record of Taylor ever complaining about the Trio, much less one that established a bad reputation for Taylor. For that matter the way the Trio were punished the first time there was any complaint, DESPITE the fact they had proof Taylor physically attacked Emma with no provocation suggests that if Taylor had complained the Trio might have received similar punishments early on.

EDIT:Oh and Taylor didn't state she'd complained previously and was ignored, so another nail in the "Taylor made lots of complaints" theory.

And I've lived through this, so don't even try and say it's not realistic.
Your scenerio is quite realistic, and if it was what had happened in canon I'd agree it works. I'm talking about what happened in canon being unrealistic.

Again, since you seem to have missed it
School does nothing about the bullying = Quite belivable.
School performs illegal acts to hide the fact that any complaints were made = Ridiculously implausible.
 
Alright. I'm going to chip in because I find these sorts of arguments kind of silly in context.

This is, by nature of being a fanfic, AU. That means that it can differ from the small details of Worm. Which means arguments about what happened in canon are not necessarily relevant.

Granted, you should assume a fanfic matches canon until shown otherwise, but you can also assume it doesn't without much impact as long as it still fits what is directly included in the story. How someone is characterized in the original work doesn't really matter because they will be different in a fanfic, if for no other reason that the author's writing style not being the same.

Also, from what I know, Wildbow wasn't necessarily consistent with his writing anyways so it's possible they way he wrote Taylor's character varied as the scene demanded.

Edit P.S.: I find the attitude of "the original work is irrelevant" seems to make fanfics much more enjoyable. It's when I latch onto how a character or setting is supposed to be that I start having trouble, which is why I can't read most FoZ fics since I read Hill of Swords.
 
For that matter the way the Trio were punished the first time there was any complaint, DESPITE the fact they had proof Taylor physically attacked Emma with no provocation suggests that if Taylor had complained the Trio might have received similar punishments early on.
Erm... When did this happen?

Seriously, the closest I can think of was the incident in the mall while Taylor was concussed. And that'd be invalidated for your argument by it not taking place at school. And IIRC, the Trio didn't get punished in canon (not 100% on that though).
EDIT:Oh and Taylor didn't state she'd complained previously and was ignored, so another nail in the "Taylor made lots of complaints" theory.
No, Taylor didn't say that; Wildbow did, it's WoG.

You can't say it didn't happen when there's WoG specifically saying it did.

*edit- WoG:
Author chiming in here. I won't elaborate too much on how artificial stuff might seem, except to say I was a novice when I started, and pretty much every event you see in relation to bullying was something I experienced, or something shared with me while I volunteered at the local children's hospital (used with permission).

You have to understand that for Taylor, it's been a year and a half since the bullying started. When things opened, she was off balance. Dealing with someone who was once a friend attacking her, putting her down, seeing what she could get away with. By the time she caught her balance, the pattern was there. She tried to handle some initial incidents by going to authorities and because she was off balance and didn't fully grasp what was going on, she maybe didn't handle it well, stuff fell through the cracks, and people brushed her off or minimized it.

Look at Emma's chapter. Taylor stands up to Emma, demands her mother's flute back. She drops a line, "I thought you were better than that." "I think that says a lot more about you than it says about me." Knowing, hoping, that it stings Emma a little. Emma reacts, not directly, but in a vicious way that hurts Taylor far more, a day or two down the line.

What happens is you get to a point where you need to make a call. You've heard of the spoon theory? A person has X spoons available in the day. Every action takes Y spoons to perform. Some people have more, some people have less. When you're disabled, you have less, or certain things take more (I'm hard of hearing, socializing and listening take more). When you're bullied, the bullies are actively taking away your spoons.

What happens, a little ways down the line, is you have to make choices. You have 10 spoons left by noon. You need 4 for getting through the rest of the school day as anyone might, with boring classes and general focus and all that stuff. You need 3 for homework. You need 1 to focus enough to pay attention to longer-term goals, and you need at least 2 to just deal with the extra stress, alertness, problem solving and general emotional cost of being bullied.

Dealing with the bullies is going to take anywhere from 1 to 5 spoons. What do you sacrifice? Do you slack off in school and pay for it over the next few days? Do you watch TV instead of checking your agenda and remembering you have a project that's due in a week? Above all else, what do you gain? You get increased harassment as they try to reaffirm their hold on the situation, beating you down physically, mentally, or emotionally. They take more spoons from you tomorrow, the next day, and maybe once or twice next week, until they're satisfied. Past experience suggests you're not going to change anything.

Taylor makes a call, and she compartmentalizes. Every part of her life goes into a separate space. School, personal life, and superhero life. Look at her reaction when her dad presses her for more details. Look at how she reacts when teammates offer to go after the bullies on her behalf. Or even the sheer emotional toll when two aspects of her life overlap (school and family, school and superhero, family and superhero). She knows she won't win a fight where she's outnumbered, and most of the circumstances are ones where it isn't even physical bullying, but social stuff where she can't call people on it without looking crazy. The direct stuff is timed to catch her when she's off guard, at her lowest points, leaving her ill-equipped to deal with it.

Worm deals a lot with consequences. Taylor is acutely aware of them from the outset, because she has to constantly think about the bullies in terms of costs vs. gains. What Taylor recognizes is that when you're truly bullied, when you're in an environment like that, you don't win, or victory comes at a cost that makes it not worth it. It might satisfy the reader, but I don't think the glorious moment of revenge really satisfies reality.

Sometimes, when you're bullied, you just endure. And it does suck, and it is frustrating.

Seriously, check the WoG repository on SB, and just search "bully" there's quite a lot on info about this. Also apparently every mentioned bit of bullying is based of RL cases (not sure if this includes The Locker).
 
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Erm... When did this happen?

Seriously, the closest I can think of was the incident in the mall while Taylor was concussed. And that'd be invalidated for your argument by it not taking place at school. And IIRC, the Trio didn't get punished in canon (not 100% on that though).
No, Taylor didn't say that; Wildbow did, it's WoG.

You can't say it didn't happen when there's WoG specifically saying it did.

*edit- WoG:


Seriously, check the WoG repository on SB, and just search "bully" there's quite a lot on info about this. Also apparently every mentioned bit of bullying is based of RL cases (not sure if this includes The Locker).
Pretty sure he references the locker as having a certain amount of basis in reality.
 
Seriously, the closest I can think of was the incident in the mall while Taylor was concussed. And that'd be invalidated for your argument by it not taking place at school. And IIRC, the Trio didn't get punished in canon (not 100% on that though).
That's the incident I was talking about, and the next day Taylor's accusations had the Trio suspended for a while (I think two weeks) which led Sophia to track her down and attack her in a bookstore.

And the point about Taylor attacking Emma isn't that she'd be punished for it, it's that it establishes she's acting irrationally about Emma (and possibly Madison and Sophia as well) casting doubt on her complaints.

You can't say it didn't happen when there's WoG specifically saying it did.
If you're not going to read my posts, don't bother to reply.

Yes, I know there's a WoG that she actually did complain somehow without leaving any paper trail, or telling her father about it, except that's impossible. The only explanations that fit canon are:
1)Taylor was so meek passive she never pushed a complaint to the point anyone would have to actually notice it.
2)Some of of mind control effect to get the staff at Winslow to forget about all those complaints and not give the trio even symbolic punishments while keeping her father in the dark.

Pretty sure he references the locker as having a certain amount of basis in reality.
It did, although IIRC Wildbow combined two RL incidents to come up with the locker - making the canon incident considerably worse than either of the RL ones.
 
Due to the situation forced on Taylor at Winslow, she basically had to act meek. That's a far cry from actually being meek.

Whoa hold on a second.

I think it was on the Taylor Hebert, Pizzeria Tycoon thread that I responded to "If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's probably a bomb-wielding supervillain" with a picture of a roast duck and a sarcastic Armsmaster's Excuse Generator line of f"I must report a crime. I appear to have accidentally roasted and partially consumed a bomb-wielding supervillain".

If it looks meek, acts meek, etc. then it probably IS meek, because "meek" is an adjective, a way one can choose to appear...

https://www.google.ca/search?q=meek...e..69i57j0l5.678j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
meek
mēk/
adjective
adjective: meek; comparative adjective: meeker; superlative adjective: meekest
  1. quiet, gentle, and easily imposed on; submissive.
    "I used to call her Miss Mouse because she was so meek and mild"
    synonyms: submissive, yielding, obedient, compliant, tame, biddable, tractable, acquiescent, humble, deferential, timid, unprotesting, unresisting, like a lamb to the slaughter; More
    antonyms: assertive

If she wasn't meek she'd be a lot more proactive in figuring out WHY/HOW Emma and Sophia get away with everything. Instead she just pretty much rolls over and takes it... like a doormat.

Ah.
So that's another reason I have issues with a lot of Taylors. I didn't quite acknowledge why the character vaguely annoyed me at a preconscious level until now.
Being a doormat on something you really don't give a fuck about and/or doesn't affect you at all is perfectly normal and fine. Being a doormat about something affecting you this badly, as opposed to gathering the power (in this case evidence) to shank them (such as putting out a lot of video evidence, excluding anything that explicitly outs Sophia, of bullying, using Empire 88 if needed) is a Darwin Award.

Ah but Wildbow realized that problem. Thus, black and white worldview is needed to not have her do the obvious and intelligent thing which is to give free propaganda to Empire 88 by using them to help blow the case wide open.

Sophia wasn't a Ward, and wouldn't be much of a track star, certainly not enough of one to have a bunch of people risk jail time to keep her from getting detention, or some other minor penalty that won't stop her from competing (assuming they decided

Look the school not punishing the bullies is quite believable, not problem with that. The school suppressing the complaints and hiding them from Danny is not.
The former is very easy for a bureaucrat to justify, especially if the victim lacks any hard evidence, the second is illegal and is risking jail time not just getting fired for no reason.
After Sophia joins the wards, keeping everything quiet to keep whatever benefits the school gets from having her there is barely plausible, before it's utterly impossible.

Winslow is supposed to be an utter shithole, filled with junior gang members.
When Sophia was just starting out, i.e. not yet a Ward, why the flying fuck would the school administration risk Empire 88 retaliation for helping a black person and a "race traitor" attack a white girl?
The blacks in Brockton Bay don't have a gang backing them, while both the others are against them!

Therefore, Taylor was obviously doing a good impression of "roll over and die" for all that time. Because teenagers, realistic, sane teenagers? They are vicious critters.

But what is believable and fits canon?
1 person complains about a bullying incident.
5+ 'witnesses' all give a different story painting the accuser as the bad one.
No evidence but word of mouth. 5 vs 1, guess who wins.
The person making the original complaint gets punished.
Repeat multiple times until the girl is viewed by staff as a troublemaker, and any bullying done is viewed as people protecting themselves from said 'troublemaker'.
It's like the boy who cried wolf, only he was telling the truth from the start... Yet no one believed him. Eventually he's just gotta stop telling people when the wolf shows up.
Note that nowhere in this process is a record taken of the bullying complaint, because it's just an attention seeking liar making stories. There are, however, record against the person making those complaints... For bullying no less.

---

And I've lived through this, so don't even try and say it's not realistic. And you really don't want to know the steps I had to take to make it end (legality is a very flexible thing to a desperate 12 year old; and no, no one got hurt... physically).

Canon requires that Taylor be too dumb/blind to borrow the Empire 88 umbrella for a bit to stop being shat on from a great height, i.e. get some voices on her side (because at least a few E88 members would step up for a white girl being accused by a black girl and "race traitor")
I.e. Taylor can't understand that associating with gang members does not magically and instantly make you a gang member.

...Also that she be too passive to bring a button camera or something (curly or wavy hair is good for hiding compact equipment, and nowhere is it said that Taylor had to replace her glasses so we can conclude the Trio didn't smash them that often. Glasses cameras have been around for a very, very long time.

You can be sure that media outlets in the Bay would be cooperative enough with E88 to bow to Empire pressure on putting out this free piece of propaganda some random white girl handed them. And if Winslow or the Trio sue for release of private information the jury will tear them to pieces. Even juvie if it comes down to it is nicer than how we've often seen Winslow depicted. And besides, if Taylor knows Sophia is Shadow Stalker by then, well she very carefully removes footage that could out Sophia, and just monitors the PRT response to the matter (if released after Sophia becomes a Ward).


TLDR? If Taylor is too proud to bend to survive (they're continuously killing her school life, grades/future prospects, etc.), then Natural Selection runs its course.

No, Taylor didn't say that; Wildbow did, it's WoG.

You can't say it didn't happen when there's WoG specifically saying it did.

Word of God is generally considered lower in canonicity than actual canon.
If it doesn't fit well with actual canon, then cast it aside.

And Wildbow doesn't have the best WoG track record.
 
Yes, I know there's a WoG that she actually did complain somehow without leaving any paper trail, or telling her father about it, except that's impossible. The only explanations that fit canon are:
I go and tell a teacher about bullying, they call in the other students, who give a lie to get me in trouble.

The ONLY paperwork generated from this is the paperwork of ME getting in trouble for bullying. Why? Because the bullying complaint is verbal, as are the other student's falsified counter-complaints. (and guess what, nothing happening there, on the school's side of things, is illegal)

Where is the supposed "impossible to not have" paperwork? Also, what school calls the parents from giving a student a detention? God knows none of the ones I went to did.

------

You post:
That is quite belivable, however it is explicitly CONTRADICTED by canon.

...

Again, since you seem to have missed it
School does nothing about the bullying = Quite belivable.
School performs illegal acts to hide the fact that any complaints were made = Ridiculously implausible.
I post proof and quotes proving it happened, while you're saying it didn't happen.
you post:
If you're not going to read my posts, don't bother to reply.
What exactly am I not reading in your posts?

Basically, without clarification on what I 'missed', you're just sounding like you just can't accept that you're wrong when you talk like that.

*edit- For the love of God Guardian54, READ WORM! I'll also note that Taylor trying to collect "video evidence" as you stated is ILLEGAL. 1: for recording without the other person's consent/knowledge. 2: for recording on school grounds (or any government building) without prior school approval (and yes, this is illegal in all states, given it's a federal crime). So you're basically telling Taylor "the bullying is bad for you, you'd find juvie so much more relaxing."

And your other method, I'm not even going to comment on you saying to go to the Nazi's to help, I'd assume you're smart enough to figure out the problem with this on your own (and no Hebert is NOT a Jewish name, it's French).
 
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I go and tell a teacher about bullying, they call in the other students, who give a lie to get me in trouble.

The ONLY paperwork generated from this is the paperwork of ME getting in trouble for bullying. Why? Because the bullying complaint is verbal, as are the other student's falsified counter-complaints. (and guess what, nothing happening there, on the school's side of things, is illegal)

Where is the supposed "impossible to not have" paperwork? Also, what school calls the parents from giving a student a detention? God knows none of the ones I went to did.

1. Get a waterproof micro-camera. Use your hair to disguise it one way or another. Perhaps in your glasses frame. These things weren't expensive back in even 2009 while glasses would be so expensive Taylor could not possibly replace them regularly, which means the bullies never went for the glasses (which makes sense as accusing someone of bullying is much harder to get away with when they have a serious eye injury and you're just fine).
2. Get copies of the paperwork from YOU getting in trouble paired with recorded proof of what they did.
3. DWU would not have survived this long without tacit tolerance from and connections with the major gangs. Pry Danny's head out of his ass by hitting him with this and basically demanding he act like a father--people who don't learn to make demands to get their way just get shat on, you've learnt this by experience. Obtain Empire 88 support for getting the de facto propaganda materials (omitting anything that outs Shadow Stalker) through to the media.
4. Watch the fireworks fly. If the accused or Winslow try to sue you then E88 would probably be happy to make the medai ruckus even bigger and thus pay for your lawyer. Otherwise? Well you have crushing amounts of media evidence and a jury would laugh off accusations of libel. Add to the clear black and white (in both senses) nature of the case in a city where neo-Nazis are the biggest gang... jury will definitely side with you.

The PRT can't help without showing their hand.
 
1. Get a waterproof micro-camera. Use your hair to disguise it one way or another. Perhaps in your glasses frame. These things weren't expensive back in even 2009 while glasses would be so expensive Taylor could not possibly replace them regularly, which means the bullies never went for the glasses (which makes sense as accusing someone of bullying is much harder to get away with when they have a serious eye injury and you're just fine).
2. Get copies of the paperwork from YOU getting in trouble paired with recorded proof of what they did.
3. DWU would not have survived this long without tacit tolerance from and connections with the major gangs. Pry Danny's head out of his ass by hitting him with this and basically demanding he act like a father--people who don't learn to make demands to get their way just get shat on, you've learnt this by experience. Obtain Empire 88 support for getting the de facto propaganda materials (omitting anything that outs Shadow Stalker) through to the media.
4. Watch the fireworks fly. If the accused or Winslow try to sue you then E88 would probably be happy to make the medai ruckus even bigger and thus pay for your lawyer. Otherwise? Well you have crushing amounts of media evidence and a jury would laugh off accusations of libel. Add to the clear black and white (in both senses) nature of the case in a city where neo-Nazis are the biggest gang... jury will definitely side with you.

The PRT can't help without showing their hand.
Look at my responses in the post above yours, I edited them in before you posted this. But seriously, Nazis?

*edit- so this part was new:
3. DWU would not have survived this long without tacit tolerance from and connections with the major gangs. Pry Danny's head out of his ass by hitting him with this and basically demanding he act like a father--people who don't learn to make demands to get their way just get shat on, you've learnt this by experience. Obtain Empire 88 support for getting the de facto propaganda materials (omitting anything that outs Shadow Stalker) through to the media.
It's canon (iirc) that Danny has kept all the gangs out of the DWU, including E88.
 
Look at my responses in the post above yours, I edited them in before you posted this. But seriously, Nazis?

It's canon (iirc) that Danny has kept all the gangs out of the DWU, including E88.

Yes, working with Nazis is better than lying down and dying. Taylor knows from Danny that there are former Dockworkers who had to turn to the Empire to keep food on the table, and that he doesn't resent them for that (you don't spend that much of your time on work without bringing some of it home unless you're military). This should have taught her some nuancing.

Illegal? Battery is also illegal. Manslaughter is also illegal.
Committing either in self-defence or defence of others isn't.
The story of a young girl being forced to resort to technically illegal measures to survive against bullies and a nearly caricatured evil school administration is something that's pretty easy to rally pubic support behind. Winslow or the Trio can sue all they want. No jury would ever back them enough for them to win, AFTER the locker incident (when it goes from "collecting evidence just in case" to "time to hit back").

"It is canon that Danny did... (insert this that or some other really EPICLY difficult thing)" is something I see a lot in the Worm fandom.
Danny kept the DWU, a work gang, ticking over for many years after the Docks were mostly closed by the Boat Graveyard. This requires a critical mass able to meet surge requirements (which happen often in a city with as much gang violence as Brockton Bay).
Danny kept all the gangs out of the DWU.
Danny didn't need to resort to doing anything illegal (like say smuggling) to keep the DWU afloat.

If Danny has the legal, contract-making and general interpersonal kung-fu to pull off all of these in the sheer shithole that is Brockton Bay, he sounds worthy of an Exaltation.
Besides that, he should have been able to trivially take Winslow to the cleaners after the Locker to the point where you can go to the school site... and look down into the pond that's there to see a gleaming, polished layer of bedrock, such is the degree he should have been able to take it to the cleaners.

The canonically portrayed Danny should have been unemployed years ago. But the fact that he isn't, and the DWU yet exists as a work gang... I ascribe that to a worldbuilding plot hole.
 
The ONLY paperwork generated from this is the paperwork of ME getting in trouble for bullying.
but there is STILL paperwork generated, paperwork neither and complaints that was somehow HIDDEN from Danny, and that no one mentioned in the confrontation following Taylor hitting Emma? I'm not saying the paperwork would show Taylor in good light, but good light or bad light it would exist, while in canon it clearly does not.

As for what you missed, my FIRST post on the subject is about the WoG you tried to cite and the fact that it is contradicted by canon, telling me about that again is pointless when the whole issue is that it's contradicted by canon.

Guardian54 do me a favor...stop trying to help. Your arguments supporting me make no sense.
 
but there is STILL paperwork generated, paperwork neither and complaints that was somehow HIDDEN from Danny, and that no one mentioned in the confrontation following Taylor hitting Emma? I'm not saying the paperwork would show Taylor in good light, but good light or bad light it would exist, while in canon it clearly does not.

As for what you missed, my FIRST post on the subject is about the WoG you tried to cite and the fact that it is contradicted by canon, telling me about that again is pointless when the whole issue is that it's contradicted by canon.

Guardian54 do me a favor...stop trying to help. Your arguments supporting me make no sense.

1. I fully agree with this... and ascribe it to worldbuilding hole.

2. Note my rant two posts up from this one on WoG and canonical Danny feats... versus how he's portrayed and canon incompetence (i.e. not eating Winslow right up post-Locker), which I again ascribe to worldbuilding hole.

3. I'm suggesting Taylor use video evidence along with the paperwork to show there were incidents, and use it to directly counter the paperwork painting her as the troublemaker.
And if you need to go via E88 to guarantee it getting out to the press, well, so be it. You do them a favour by giving them free propaganda, they do you a favour by making sure it gets out. For them to press you further would be inefficient, as having friendly neutrals is always useful.
 
As for what you missed, my FIRST post on the subject is about the WoG you tried to cite and the fact that it is contradicted by canon, telling me about that again is pointless when the whole issue is that it's contradicted by canon.
Except it's NOT contradicted by canon. It's contradicted by your view of how canon should have went... Which isn't canon.
but there is STILL paperwork generated, paperwork neither and complaints that was somehow HIDDEN from Danny, and that no one mentioned in the confrontation following Taylor hitting Emma? I'm not saying the paperwork would show Taylor in good light, but good light or bad light it would exist, while in canon it clearly does not.
The ONLY time Danny might find out about something is if he got called in for a conference/parental visitation day, or if Taylor got suspended (which she never did).
1. I fully agree with this... and ascribe it to worldbuilding hole.

2. Note my rant two posts up from this one on WoG and canonical Danny feats... versus how he's portrayed and canon incompetence (i.e. not eating Winslow right up post-Locker), which I again ascribe to worldbuilding hole.

3. I'm suggesting Taylor use video evidence along with the paperwork to show there were incidents, and use it to directly counter the paperwork painting her as the troublemaker.
And if you need to go via E88 to guarantee it getting out to the press, well, so be it. You do them a favour by giving them free propaganda, they do you a favour by making sure it gets out. For them to press you further would be inefficient, as having friendly neutrals is always useful.
1: See my response to Unicorn in this post.

2: You've yet to read Worm, your argument is both invalid and wrong.

3: You're still insane for thinking Taylor should go to the Nazis for help, the Nazis who often times were laughing right along with Sophia when it came to Taylor. (because frankly, the Nazi's should have jumped in on their own if they even pretended to follow their own creed)
 
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1. I fully agree with this... and ascribe it to worldbuilding hole.

2. Note my rant two posts up from this one on WoG and canonical Danny feats... versus how he's portrayed and canon incompetence (i.e. not eating Winslow right up post-Locker), which I again ascribe to worldbuilding hole.
Being able to keep the gangs out of the (failing) Dockworkers is not an indicator for being able to deal with Winslow, with Sophia's handler backing them up to keep Shadow Stalker out of the limelight.

3. I'm suggesting Taylor use video evidence along with the paperwork to show there were incidents, and use it to directly counter the paperwork painting her as the troublemaker.
And if you need to go via E88 to guarantee it getting out to the press, well, so be it. You do them a favour by giving them free propaganda, they do you a favour by making sure it gets out. For them to press you further would be inefficient, as having friendly neutrals is always useful.
1) Getting a video camera small enough (Tinkertech has, interestingly enough, slowed down actual technical progress so she can't cheaply get hold of such a camera on her allowance) that nobody would see it would be virtually impossible. Even if possible, it's illegal. She doesn't want to get in trouble with the cops as well, given her track record with authority figures. With her luck, the school would lobby to have the footage confiscated and destroyed ... and then have her charged.

2) If she goes to the Empire, she would never ever be out of their clutches. She knows this. E88 would never be 'neutral'. They'd always want something more for their help.
 
3. I'm suggesting Taylor use video evidence along with the paperwork to show there were incidents, and use it to directly counter the paperwork painting her as the troublemaker.
There are a whole bunch of reasons why this wouldn't work, but the one relevant to this discussion is that there wasn't any paperwork (good or bad) in canon. i.e no complaints were filed, no incidents were noted by teachers, no notes much less meetings with parents.

EDIT:
Except it's NOT contradicted by canon
As of the day before the canon school meeting Danny didn't know anything about the bullying.
According to both the school administrator and Taylor during that confrontation there was no record of any complaints, either supporting Taylor or showing her as a troublemaker.
According Alan this was the first anyone ever heard of the issue.

So yes, Taylor reporting anything to anyone about the bullying is contradicted by canon.
 
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When Sophia was just starting out, i.e. not yet a Ward, why the flying fuck would the school administration risk Empire 88 retaliation for helping a black person and a "race traitor" attack a white girl?
You do know 2/3rds of that posse was white, right?

Additionally, there's the Merchants and ABB. Additionally Additionally, none of them would care that much, because it's a school and Taylor's not a member of any of the gangs. Read 'Another Way' by Ack (I think) for Taylor joining the gangs.

1. Get a waterproof micro-camera. Use your hair to disguise it one way or another. Perhaps in your glasses frame. These things weren't expensive back in even 2009 while glasses would be so expensive Taylor could not possibly replace them regularly, which means the bullies never went for the glasses (which makes sense as accusing someone of bullying is much harder to get away with when they have a serious eye injury and you're just fine).
2. Get copies of the paperwork from YOU getting in trouble paired with recorded proof of what they did.
1. Because Taylor's wealthy./Sarcasm
2. Because Taylor actually generated paperwork instead of just being lectured at/punished verbally.

but there is STILL paperwork generated, paperwork neither and complaints that was somehow HIDDEN from Danny, and that no one mentioned in the confrontation following Taylor hitting Emma?
Why would it be brought to Danny's attention? Taylor was canonically hiding it for her dad, and if nothing was bad enough there's no reason to bring him in. Also, it wasn't like they hid the locker incident.
 
You do know 2/3rds of that posse was white, right?

Additionally, there's the Merchants and ABB. Additionally Additionally, none of them would care that much, because it's a school and Taylor's not a member of any of the gangs. Read 'Another Way' by Ack (I think) for Taylor joining the gangs.
It's Slippery Slope, actually.

So yes, Taylor reporting anything to anyone about the bullying is contradicted by canon.
Canonically, Sophia had been spoken to by the principal on a couple of occasions (the inference is that the punishments were 'slap on the wrist' type).

It's not unlikely that the school (not wanting to generate troublesome paperwork) kept it all to 'verbal warnings'.
 
2) If she goes to the Empire, she would never ever be out of their clutches. She knows this. E88 would never be 'neutral'. They'd always want something more for their help.

Because lying down and waiting for an escalation beyond the Locker Incident to actually kill you is brilliant.
And it's not like they believe particularly much. As long as you aren't a cape the fringe affiliates probably don't really care much if you are an intermittent contact at most or even just a one-time tip-off.

So yes, Taylor reporting anything to anyone about the bullying is contradicted by canon.

Thanks for the info.

1. Because Taylor's wealthy./Sarcasm

Why would it be brought to Danny's attention? Taylor was canonically hiding it for her dad, and if nothing was bad enough there's no reason to bring him in. Also, it wasn't like they hid the locker incident.

1. Those cameras aren't that expensive, EXCEPT with the "normal tech developed slower" excuse. Sir, just because there's Tinkertech for the highest-end markets, doesn't mean there isn't a strata where "Tinkertech is too expensive" that's numerous enough to push normal tech to still develop. At WORST Earth Bet 2011 is our 2006 or so.
I'm pretty sure having a camera on your car is perfectly legal for proof of accidents or "accidents" (my family car has one on the other side of the rearview mirror). A school is a public space...

2. Danny should have REKT the school given his canon track record of competence, because keeping a work gang afloat in a shithole like that for YEARS after most of said work gang's old profession died a sudden death is a Herculean task.
 
Because lying down and waiting for an escalation beyond the Locker Incident to actually kill you is brilliant.
And it's not like they believe particularly much. As long as you aren't a cape the fringe affiliates probably don't really care much if you are an intermittent contact at most or even just a one-time tip-off.

Cause people are always 100% rational and never commit suicide or suffer from any psychological problems /Sarcasm.

Guardian, please join us in real life please. I know it's a crapsack place, and worse than what happened durring and leading up to Taylor's trigger happens all the time, but it's, you know... Real.


1. Those cameras aren't that expensive, EXCEPT with the "normal tech developed slower" excuse. Sir, just because there's Tinkertech for the highest-end markets, doesn't mean there isn't a strata where "Tinkertech is too expensive" that's numerous enough to push normal tech to still develop. At WORST Earth Bet 2011 is our 2006 or so.
I'm pretty sure having a camera on your car is perfectly legal for proof of accidents or "accidents" (my family car has one on the other side of the rearview mirror). A school is a public space...

2. Danny should have REKT the school given his canon track record of competence, because keeping a work gang afloat in a shithole like that for YEARS after most of said work gang's old profession died a sudden death is a Herculean task.
1: *Does some price checking*. Ok, if Taylor stopped replacing things to hide how bad it was from her dad, she could have afforded it I think. Assuming she knew of such things. Of course, such solutions are thought of by few, and would prevent/drastically alter the story, so I'm fine with them being forgotten.

2: Uh, you missed the point. Danny was depressed and buried himself in work. He was poor and emotionally destressed so he accepted the settlement to keep the hospital at bay. There's no problem here.
 
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Cause people are always 100% rational and never commit suicide or suffer from any psychological problems /Sarcasm.
Guardian, please join us in real life please. I know it's a crapsack place, and worse than what happened durring and leading up to Taylor's trigger happens all the time, but it's, you know... Real.

1: *Does some price checking*. Ok, if Taylor stopped replacing things to hide how bad it was from her dad, she could have afforded it I think. Assuming she knew of such things. Of course, such solutions are thought of by few, and would prevent/drastically alter the story, so I'm fine with them being forgotten.

2: Uh, you missed the point. Danny was depressed and buried himself in work. He was poor and emotionally distressed so he accepted the settlement to keep the hospital at bay. There's no problem here.

0. I'm pretty sure the depression is partly a genetic disposition... or learnt from Danny, who by refusing Hot Rage went straight to Burnt Out (as opposed to Cold Rage).

1. I can agree with this. But since we were talking about how the paper trail should have existed along with other evidence trails...
So Taylor was good at school, enough that she could have gone to Arcadia instead of Losefast (i.e. Winslow). And her mother says that she should be well-read. And she wasn't interested in capes until after triggering... and Emma was always the makeup/clothes/fashion one relative to her... So what exactly WAS she interested in? Because mystery/spy stuff says she SHOULD think of this. Hell even fantasy novels have enough Scry and Die or mystery mixed in... and for some reason I don't think Taylor was all that much into the sciences or she'd probably have some serious Tinker abilities somewhere...

2. If Danny has his head so far up his ass that his daughter almost getting murdered doesn't dump enough cold water on his head to be within a couple orders of magnitude of Leviathan's individual single splashes, I don't know why he was even capable of bothering to try later on (i.e. pushing Taylor to talk to him, resulting in her running away). Not to mention the Emo McBroody First Interlude with Danny (BTW typo up there, it's "distressed") waiting up and fretting without the ability to open his damned mouth and [TALK]. If he couldn't be motivated to shred Winslow for money after hte Locker then mustering the effort to actually stay up for Taylor seems absurd.
 
Because lying down and waiting for an escalation beyond the Locker Incident to actually kill you is brilliant.
Did you actually read WB's description of how Taylor was spreading her attention? Or did you go "too long, won't read, don't care"?
After the Locker, Taylor:
1) spent a week in the psych ward
2) spent another three weeks recuperating at home
3) went back to school, with medical bills paid for but nobody held accountable for the Locker
3a) because the only person who really cared was Sophia's handler, and her care was based solely around keeping Shadow Stalker out of the line of fire.
3b) Emma never came into it, but it may well have been that the school actually did hire lawyers who told Danny that if he didn't shut up and take the settlement, they'd draw it out until he ran out of money.
4) wanted to become a hero, so she chose to keep her head down while she made her costume and prepared
5) separated (in her own mind) her school life, her home life and her (upcoming) heroic career
6) spent most of her time keeping her powers in check so she wouldn't go Carrie on the school
7) did NOT buy a camera to record the bullies, because
7a) any camera that was SMALL ENOUGH TO RECORD THE BULLIES WITHOUT BEING DETECTED would also be OUT OF HER PRICE RANGE.

I really don't know how to say it any more clearly. If she'd showed up with a camera that anyone could spot, it would have gone, then she would have been reported to both the school and the police for recording students without their permission.

And it's not like they believe particularly much. As long as you aren't a cape the fringe affiliates probably don't really care much if you are an intermittent contact at most or even just a one-time tip-off.
Hahaha nope. Gangs love having members. If you associate with them one time, they start hanging around you, and then you get the rep for being in the gang, and if you then separate yourself from them, guess what? The other gangs come after you as a member of that gang, and you don't have any protection.

1. Those cameras aren't that expensive, EXCEPT with the "normal tech developed slower" excuse. Sir, just because there's Tinkertech for the highest-end markets, doesn't mean there isn't a strata where "Tinkertech is too expensive" that's numerous enough to push normal tech to still develop. At WORST Earth Bet 2011 is our 2006 or so.
I'm pretty sure having a camera on your car is perfectly legal for proof of accidents or "accidents" (my family car has one on the other side of the rearview mirror). A school is a public space...

2. Danny should have REKT the school given his canon track record of competence, because keeping a work gang afloat in a shithole like that for YEARS after most of said work gang's old profession died a sudden death is a Herculean task.
Taylor: "I've got a camera! You can't do anything to me any more!"
Sophia: <Grab> "Now I've got a camera."
Taylor: "Principal Blackwell, Sophia stole my camera!"
Sophia: "What camera?"
Emma: "We have no idea what she's talking about."
Madison: "I overheard her saying she was going to accuse Sophia of theft to get her into trouble."
Blackwell: "Now, Miss Hebert, I know you're having trouble fitting in, but ..."


If you bothered to READ WORM, you would know that there is actually still shipping. Yes; shock, horror, Leviathan does not actually attack shipping. BB has gone downhill for the Dockworkers since the Boat Graveyard killed Lord's Port, but there are other ports in BB, just not the big ones. It's not Levi that has hurt the Dockworkers, it's the Graveyard.
 
OUT OF HER PRICE RANGE.
I just looked them up. While I'm sure they were somewhat more expensive 7 years ago, she did have a allowance which could have afforded them. (Her allowance was from her Grandmother.)

Taylor: "I've got a camera! You can't do anything to me any more!"
Ok, this one is Strawman. Given the Diary, I'd imagine she'd not have mentioned it to anyone until she had evidence of something she considered of value. Kinda like how she just kept documenting what they did to her until she stopped going to Winslow, likely intending to eventually use it.
 
I just looked them up. While I'm sure they were somewhat more expensive 7 years ago, she did have a allowance which could have afforded them. (Her allowance was from her Grandmother.)


Ok, this one is Strawman. Given the Diary, I'd imagine she'd not have mentioned it to anyone until she had evidence of something she considered of value. Kinda like how she just kept documenting what they did to her until she stopped going to Winslow, likely intending to eventually use it.
Her allowance was barely enough to get the stuff she needed for hero work, and even that was pitiful enough.

Cite the amount of her allowance, and that it was from her grandmother, please?

What I'm saying is that her camera would have to be tiny indeed to not be noticed as a camera. Also, it's a universal law across the US that you can't record audio without the permission of the people you're recording. So unless the camera is in the exact right position to record shoves and trips, it's useless. And she'd have to run it all day .... to be recorded where, exactly? On the phone which she didn't own, and which (in 2010-2011) probably wouldn't have had anywhere near enough memory to store a fraction of that.
 
Why would it be brought to Danny's attention?
Because schools are required to report to the parents when the kids get in trouble, or are involved in anything else that gets this sort of paperwork written.

Canonically, Sophia had been spoken to by the principal on a couple of occasions
Do you remember what chapter that's mentioned? Because both the meeting at school following Taylor telling her father about the bullying, and Sophia's reaction to Taylor reporting the bullying suggest that was the first time Taylor reported it, and it definitely was the first time Sophia was aware Taylor reported it.
 
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