Commercial Break (Worm / Slut Life) (Borderline SFW)

[Ack]

Because schools are required to report to the parents when the kids get in trouble, or are being bullied.

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And they always follow that, to the very letter.

Do you remember what chapter that's mentioned? Because both the meeting at school following Taylor telling her father about the bullying, and Sophia's reaction to Taylor reporting the bullying suggest that was the first time Taylor reported it, and it definitely was the first time Sophia was aware Taylor reported it.

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"And the individuals accused of misconduct are… Emma Barnes, Madison Clements and Sophia Hess. You've been in my office before, Sophia. I just wish it had more to do with the track and field team and less to do with detention."

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[The Unicorn]

And they always follow that, to the very letter.

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Of course, they're completely honest and pure who only have the children's best interest at heart [/sarcasm]

More seriously, while one or two reports could get overlooked, if that's all it took to get Taylor to stop trying I stand by my original statement that Taylor in pre-canon had to be meek. If there's a pattern of reports, not telling the parent about it is the sort of thing administrators can go to jail for, especially if someone was later injured. I can't see the school ignoring their own rules to that extent.

 

[SystemSearcher]

Of course, they're completely honest and pure who only have the children's best interest at heart [/sarcasm]

More seriously, while one or two reports could get overlooked, if that's all it took to get Taylor to stop trying I stand by my original statement that Taylor in pre-canon had to be meek. If there's a pattern of reports, not telling the parent about it is the sort of thing administrators can go to jail for, especially if someone was later injured. I can't see the school ignoring their own rules to that extent.

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Unless it was because the administration was afraid of gang-members in the school. I'm not sure whether it was fanon that Winslow was basically infested with all sorts of gang members, but a white-collar prison would probably be safer than facing a gang at knife-point after you did something administratively right to them.

 

[Ack]

Unless it was because the administration was afraid of gang-members in the school. I'm not sure whether it was fanon that Winslow was basically infested with all sorts of gang members, but a white-collar prison would probably be safer than facing a gang at knife-point after you did something administratively right to them.

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Taylor to Blackwell: "Arcadia's a good school. No gangs. No drugs."

Which implies pretty heavily that Winslow has both.

 

[5ColouredWalker]

, and that it was from her grandmother, please?

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https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/worm-quotes-and-wog-repository.294448/page-18#post-37024231

On Taylor's money pre-canon, and her grandmother:

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(Not sure if the link on that works. Probably not.)

Specifically this line:
Wildbow - Yesterday at 2:37 PM
Allowance and money from grandma. She doesn't spend a lot.

Amount I've no clue on. Efficacy of the camera/etc, I've no clue on. I was only addressing whether or not it was affordable/possible (Looking up online they get very cheap, but I did note I expect them to be somewhat more expensive.) since it'd already came up and I'd considered myself corrected.

 

[Ack]

https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/worm-quotes-and-wog-repository.294448/page-18#post-37024231

(Not sure if the link on that works. Probably not.)

Specifically this line:
Wildbow - Yesterday at 2:37 PM
Allowance and money from grandma. She doesn't spend a lot.

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I'm interpreting that to mean she gets an allowance from her father, and money on occasions such as Christmas or birthday from her grandmother.

Pretty sure she doesn't get a lot, either. Otherwise, she wouldn't have trouble paying for replacement schoolbooks.

Amount I've no clue on. Efficacy of the camera/etc, I've no clue on. I was only addressing whether or not it was affordable/possible (Looking up online they get very cheap, but I did note I expect them to be somewhat more expensive.) since it'd already came up and I'd considered myself corrected.

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Spy cameras tend to have one (or more) of the following flaws:
1) Noticeable. If you've got a visible camera attached to you, that's a prime target for people to grab it off you.
2) Low power supply. Micro-batteries don't last long.
3) Crappy field of view/resolution. If it doesn't get a good image, what use is it?
4) Expense. If you can't afford it ...
5) Low memory. If it can't record more than ten minutes ...
6) Cord leading to bulky power pack/recording device. See 'noticeable'.

The bottom line? Unless you're willing to put up thousands, you aren't gonna get a camera that a) records everything with high fidelity, b) can record all day, c) can store an all-day recording and won't be noticed by the bullies.

 

[Guardian54]

Also, it's a universal law across the US that you can't record audio without the permission of the people you're recording.

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Bah, 'Murica.

I'll concede then. Still, it's a pretty easy media blowout. If they want to sue, then jury could probably smash them to bits especially with the hush money scandal from the Locker.

You vocalize serious threats in public with a track record of physical harm of the target, that's already assault.

 

[Ack]

Bah, 'Murica.

I'll concede then. Still, it's a pretty easy media blowout. If they want to sue, then jury could probably smash them to bits especially with the hush money scandal from the Locker.

You vocalize serious threats in public with a track record of physical harm of the target, that's already assault.

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Quote from Alan Barnes:

"No. But the case could drag out for some time. When our families used to have dinner together, you remember me saying how most cases were resolved?"

"Decided by who ran out of money first," my dad said. I felt him clutch me a fraction tighter.

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All they'd have to do is keep appealing until Danny ran out of money.

 

[edale]

A school is a public space...

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Fallacy. Public schools are NOT public property, they're government facilities, with all the legal issues that implies (AKA, you can be arrested for breaking a federal law on something that's legal in your state, as one example).

At WORST Earth Bet 2011 is our 2006 or so.

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more like early to mid '90s... Which would put a decent (not great) small spy camera at over $2000, and the best audio recording device would be a microcassette.

Also, it's a universal law across the US that you can't record audio without the permission of the people you're recording.

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Not entirely accurate. most states have a 2-party consent law for recordings, but some states still have 1-party consent laws (so a phone conversation can be recorded without the other person's knowledge, for example).

I don't believe any of the states in NE US have 1-party consent laws, so for purposes of a Worm story it's safe to assume 2-party consent laws are in place.

Because schools are required to report to the parents when the kids get in trouble, or are involved in anything else that gets this sort of paperwork written.

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Dude, just accept the fact that no paperwork got written already...

 

[Guardian54]

Fallacy. Public schools are NOT public property, they're government facilities, with all the legal issues that implies (AKA, you can be arrested for breaking a federal law on something that's legal in your state, as one example).

more like early to mid '90s... Which would put a decent (not great) small spy camera at over $2000, and the best audio recording device would be a microcassette.

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1. And since when did being in a government facility void your right to self-defence against those who are not demonstrated officers of the law? Just because you decide to not retaliate lethally to an attack with lethal force (and make no mistake the Locker WAS such an attack) does not mean you cannot defend yourself in other ways. Or defend yourself against repeated slander for that matter.

But with all due respect fuck the legal bullshit designed to let politicians get away with everything.

2. I'm pretty sure smartphones exist in Worm. Or computers at least don't run Windows 95 (which dates to, you guessed it, 1995!). Can you imagine running PHO on that network architecture? Much of what we know about it wouldn't exist!
You're telling me that in 25 years Earth Bet only got as far as Aleph took 10 years to reach? Because Aleph is basically our Earth as a reference...

 

[edale]

1. And since when did being in a government facility void your right to self-defence against those who are not demonstrated officers of the law? Just because you decide to not retaliate lethally to an attack with lethal force (and make no mistake the Locker WAS such an attack) does not mean you cannot defend yourself in other ways. Or defend yourself against repeated slander for that matter.

But with all due respect fuck the legal bullshit designed to let politicians get away with everything.

2. I'm pretty sure smartphones exist in Worm. Or computers at least don't run Windows 95 (which dates to, you guessed it, 1995!). Can you imagine running PHO on that network architecture? Much of what we know about it wouldn't exist!
You're telling me that in 25 years Earth Bet only got as far as Aleph took 10 years to reach? Because Aleph is basically our Earth as a reference...

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1: bringing a camera into a school to record without knowledge of the other party (even in a 1-party consent state) is a FEDERAL crime.

2: The first smartphone was released in 1992, though the term wasn't coined until 1995.

And as far as PHO... Try looking up the old BBS boards, you know, the PHO-like sites that have existed IRL since the '70's (yes, BBS boards existed in the times of Arpanet, when the internet was just for military and college use). You'll note the post header formatting for PHO posts is the BBS format.

 

[Sartek]

Also remember they had three cuddly creatures destroying the infrastructure. No good electronics from Japan. China probably is not the cheap goods producer it is in our world.

People are probably not as concerned with industries that are not necessary.
That probably hikes up the price a lot. I vaguely remember smartphones being very expensive. Non-essential goods probably just weren't worth it.

And Winslow paperwork. Taylor had a bad rep cause bullies had witnesses on their side. She goes to make a complaint. Staff hears her out. Ignores it cause of said witnesses. They have more pressing concerns than one girl who is a weird loner who has had reports about being a bully herself.
Maybe all the drugs and violence are more important?

I mean, to us, Taylor is the center of everything. She is important to us and we care about her. But nobody else does. Its a much shittier world. Especially Brockton Bay. One bullied girl is nothing there.

 

[Guardian54]

Also remember they had three cuddly creatures destroying the infrastructure. No good electronics from Japan. China probably is not the cheap goods producer it is in our world.

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Wildbow went full out "CHINA EVUL EMPIAH!" kool-aid without considering "Africa is warlord hellhole", South America is likely Brazil VS Argentina plus something like Africa, Europe is shat up with Nazis...

WELL THEN WHERE THE FUCK DO THE TOTALLY EXPENDABLE BURNER PHONES COME FROM?

Maybe all the drugs and violence are more important?

I mean, to us, Taylor is the center of everything. She is important to us and we care about her. But nobody else does. Its a much shittier world. Especially Brockton Bay. One bullied girl is nothing there.

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If they had ANY level of actual knowledge about how triggers work (but nooo Cauldron has to be "careful" around Scion...) they'd know it's always the slow burn that's more terrifying (i.e. MASTER/STRANGER/TINKER, BEWARE OF MINIONS/STEALTH/ROBOTS!).

Congratulations, Cauldron, you managed to destroy human ability for organized resistance against ANYTHING in under 30 years when all of human history together didn't manage it. Jsut because you couldn't be arsed to drop a nuke on the 9 or other obvious "killing more capes than they generate" dangers using Contessa.

The plot has such huge holes in it that Wildbow invented Mama Mathers in the sequel just to justify Cauldron's fails. (Mama Mathers' shard would be Entity Brain Cancer i.e. shits up all their own Thinker shards i.e. nervous system)

 

[GladiusLucix]

WELL THEN WHERE THE FUCK DO THE TOTALLY EXPENDABLE BURNER PHONES COME FROM?

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China, still, they're just recording everything transmitted through them to the CUI's NSA equivalent. [/joking]

 

[The Unicorn]

1: bringing a camera into a school to record without knowledge of the other party (even in a 1-party consent state) is a FEDERAL crime.

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Incorrect. Recording conversations might, or might not be a crime depending on a lot of different factors, including the rules the school established before hand (schools are a gray area being partly public, partially local school district property and partially federal, which makes this sort of thing a real mess to figure out). Recording video is not illegal unless you are violating someone's expectation of privacy.

Also remember they had three cuddly creatures destroying the infrastructure. No good electronics from Japan. China probably is not the cheap goods producer it is in our world.

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On the other hand they had the Tinker derived tech boom. Basically it's up to the author since you can easily justify anything from 20 years behind to 20 years in advance of RL, and more likely it will be inconsistent with some stuff more advanced and some stuff less advanced. Given how practically every Tinker has some form of advanced power source I'd think batteries would be one of the areas Worm is more advanced than us, but it's up to the author.

WELL THEN WHERE THE FUCK DO THE TOTALLY EXPENDABLE BURNER PHONES COME FROM?

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Mexico.
Remember 30 years divergence (at least, assuming you ignore the lack of BB in RL, if you don't you can have several centuries of divergence).

 

[beow]

So the recent argument involves the legality of things in school and this brings up a thought. There is an argument that I here quite often for the USA school system, and that argument is that kids have no Rights in school.

 

[edale]

So the recent argument involves the legality of things in school and this brings up a thought. There is an argument that I here quite often for the USA school system, and that argument is that kids have no Rights in school.

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In theory and on paper, nothing could be further from the truth. Children are to be protected, and nothing can ever happen to them without drastic consequences.

In reality and practice, this is sadly the case more often than not. Typically the only real recourse a student who's having legitimate problems with staff can do is contact the press and hope their situation gets enough public outrage to actually be acted upon (sadly, this isn't really an option for the really shy kids put in that type of situation), assuming a lawsuit isn't viable (nothing gets people's asses in gear faster than a lawsuit).

Granted, there are other ways to get things done, but more often than not you run into legal problems with actually executing any of them.

 

[Ack]

On the other hand they had the Tinker derived tech boom.

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No such thing.

Tinkertech can't be retro-engineered.

Well, Dragon can retro-engineer it and replicate it, but that's because she's got a Thinker power to do just that. But normal human engineers look at Tinkertech and go, "Well, I have no fuckin' idea how that even functions."

Tech is behind, not ahead.

 

[The Unicorn]

No such thing.

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According to canon there is:

What made things worse was that I then got to watch Madison rattle off my very impressive sounding list of ways capes had changed the world. She cribbed almost all of my stuff; fashion, economics, Tinkers and the tech boom, the fact that movies, television and magazines had been tweaked to accommodate cape celebrities, and so on.

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https://parahumans.wordpress.com/2011/07/12/insinuation-2-3/

Tinkertech can't be retro-engineered.

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Assuming that's true for the sake of argument, there are still a number of ways Tinkers could produce a tech boom:
1)Inspiring large scale investments in R&D, this would be similar to the tech boom produced by the space program, it's quite possible all the attempts to reverse engineer tinkertech will fail while still being quite profitable. It's more likely that while they won't be profitable they'll still produce a lot of advances that will move society ahead.
2)While producing Tinkertech guns, consumer electronics, or the like won't have any large scale effects on society, there are things Tinkers could produce that would have such effects. For example a Tinkertech litheography machine capable of 10 nm chips made in 1990 would boost technology all across the board even if it could only produce a few thousand chips a year.
3)While Tinkertech itself might not be reverse engineered that does not mean various applications and concepts based on it might not be reverse engineered. For example a vibroblade might be impossible to reverse engineer but the knowledge gained from studying it could provide improvements in industrial shock absorbers, generator efficiency, etc. Or a failed attempt at duplicating pretty much any tinkertech might produce improved batteries, or capacitors, or longer carbon nanotubes, etc...
4)Tinkers might have just made science "cool" which could produce a tech boom on its own.

 

[Guardian54]

1: bringing a camera into a school to record without knowledge of the other party (even in a 1-party consent state) is a FEDERAL crime.

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What is "record without knowledge"? Because I can record my conversation with one other person with their knowledge... and during that conversation someone yelling in the hallway outside is also recorded and treated as ambient noise. Do I have to go chase after them with a document they must sign?

A casual and seemingly random "You know, that camera could be recording us, though we all know most are broken in this shithole. But audio recorders are smaller and can pick up more. Aren't you worried they might have put an audio recorder in the broken casing?" during a confrontation with Emma (the less violent one of the Trio) is likely to produce a "they can record all they like" type response, i.e. recorded and documented permission.

Mexico.
Remember 30 years divergence (at least, assuming you ignore the lack of BB in RL, if you don't you can have several centuries of divergence).

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You telling me that Mexico won't be Even More Cartel Land with divergence in 1985 and with so many villainous capes?

Typically the only real recourse a student who's having legitimate problems with staff can do is contact the press and hope their situation gets enough public outrage to actually be acted upon (sadly, this isn't really an option for the really shy kids put in that type of situation), assuming a lawsuit isn't viable (nothing gets people's asses in gear faster than a lawsuit).

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"Really shy kids" sounds rather rude. But yes, if you can't handle public attention, that's your own problem, just like an allergy generally doesn't legally obligate others near you to alter their behavior once you're an adult (elementary kids however can't bring peanuts to school). And if school is boot camp for society, well... they kind of are obligated to select against "really shy kids".

 

[The Unicorn]

A casual "You know, that camera could be recording us, aren't you worried they might have replaced it with an audio recorder?" during a confrontation with Emma (the not-violent one) is likely to produce a "they can record all they like" type response, i.e. recorded and documented permission.

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Depends on the specific laws in place at your location but I doubt that argument would work anywhere. I do however note that a lot of the wiretapping laws we have in RL were passed in the 80s and 90s, i.e after Worm diverged from RL.

You telling me that Mexico won't be Even More Cartel Land with divergence in 1985 and with so many villainous capes?

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Not if there's actual economic interest to prevent it, and not if they have difficulty importing drugs to sell to the US.
Mexico's problem with the cartels is because the drug cartels have a lot of money and no one else does. If the cartels will have less money (because Mexico becomes a less favored route for the drugs), and other people start having a lot more money (because US industries are cut off from cheap labor in the far east) the cartels will lose power. For that matter if there are US financial intrests being affected I'd bet the U.S government would "offer" to help Mexico "restore order". The U.S forces might even leave afterwards.

 

[5ColouredWalker]

Depends on the specific laws in place at your location but I doubt that argument would work anywhere. I do however note that a lot of the wiretapping laws we have in RL were passed in the 80s and 90s, i.e after Worm diverged from RL.

Not if there's actual economic interest to prevent it, and not if they have difficulty importing drugs to sell to the US.
Mexico's problem with the cartels is because the drug cartels have a lot of money and no one else does. If the cartels will have less money (because Mexico becomes a less favored route for the drugs), and other people start having a lot more money (because US industries are cut off from cheap labor in the far east) the cartels will lose power. For that matter if there are US financial intrests being affected I'd bet the U.S government would "offer" to help Mexico "restore order". The U.S forces might even leave afterwards.

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I dunno, canonically SA was actually taken over by Super-Powered Cartels, and they might like the idea of Mexico being a buffer state between them and the US.

 

[Guardian54]

Depends on the specific laws in place at your location but I doubt that argument would work anywhere. I do however note that a lot of the wiretapping laws we have in RL were passed in the 80s and 90s, i.e after Worm diverged from RL.

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Translation: The politicians were scared of another Watergate, this time landing in their laps.

And legal bullshitting using the present-day "teens are not expected to understand nuances" drivel can be applied.

I dunno, canonically SA was actually taken over by Super-Powered Cartels, and they might like the idea of Mexico being a buffer state between them and the US.

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I register my astonishment at you not arguing against me per se this time around.

but I'm pretty sure Mexico went down to cartels and cape-based gangs, as the Protectorate can barely cover the US and investing in Mexico wouldn't be worth it with how often the factories get blown up.

 

[5ColouredWalker]

I register my astonishment at you not arguing against me per se this time around.

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Thing is, in many ways I do agree with you... Just, you tend to go a step further than I would go.

And then you talk about how people act, and then, you tend to just be wrong. And then you talk about Worm and...

Edit:
Also note I was talking about South America being Cartels. It's entirely possible that Mexico is torn between Cartels + Cheap Manufacturing. Hell, some of the Cartels probably run sweatshops on the side.

 

[Guardian54]

Thing is, in many ways I do agree with you... Just, you tend to go a step further than I would go.

And then you talk about how people act, and then, you tend to just be wrong. And then you talk about Worm and...

Edit:
Also note I was talking about South America being Cartels. It's entirely possible that Mexico is torn between Cartels + Cheap Manufacturing. Hell, some of the Cartels probably run sweatshops on the side.

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Ah, right, you did say that at some point in the past.

The natural chokepoints between NA and SA are found in Panama or failing that Nicaragua, the northernmost possibility is just past the Yucatan.

The question is, which of those Stop Lines (and the ones I didn't mention) could the Protectorate we see in canon hold against cape-based cartels, without basically building a wall at least and equipping it with Border Wall tier firepower (i.e. actual military)? As far as I can identify, none of them. And we have no mentions of such a wall in canon. If we had such a wall, we'd very possibly echo Game of Thrones/ASOIAF with "Sent to the Wall" for troublesome Protectorate capes instead of just "Sent to Simurgh containment".

Given US investment in the Panama Canal, I can totally imagine putting up a Panama Wall or something. Which would allow Made in Mexico. The problem is the lack of "Sent to the Wall".

Given how weak the operating protocols for PRT/Protectorate are in Brockton Bay, I doubt they can hold much in Mexico if the Canal Zone is overrun by cartels. Hell, I find it more probable that the Elite can hold chunks of Mexico unless the PRT there can actually kill cartel capes!

 

[Ack]

According to canon there is:

https://parahumans.wordpress.com/2011/07/12/insinuation-2-3/


Assuming that's true for the sake of argument, there are still a number of ways Tinkers could produce a tech boom:

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Forget 'assuming'. It's true. Wildbow said so.

Also, the 'tech boom' comment was something that showed up very early in the story, and I strongly suspect it's something WB put in and then forgot that he did.

 

[edale]

For the people arguing over which foreign country is making US smartphones... You do realize there's a rather large tech-based manufacturing infrastructure in the US, right? In fact, back in the 80's (Bet's divergence point) the US's tech infrastructure was equal to, if not superior to, Japan's.

Remember, almost all of the earliest big advances in personal computing and such were coming out of the US, not Japan... Even if Bill Gates never actually invented anything himself (he literally stole everything, while claiming credit).

I imagine Apple and IBM still rule the tech industry in Bet, with the lack of Japanese and Chinese competitors.

 

[Guardian54]

For the people arguing over which foreign country is making US smartphones

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We're talking about the cheap burner phones of canon.

If you fuck up the world economy as much as Wildbow did then no amount of applied butterfly netting will get you the same "cheap electronics" infestation of RL unless you very specifically explain where they are made.

And given how Mexico was already pretty bad pre-1985? I doubt it's America's Factory.

And if the manufacturing is still in the United States, then the economy wouldn't shit on the lower classes nearly so badly! Brockton Bay is a modestly sized city (not large town, city) by Northeastern United States standards, it's large enough to have lots of labour available, still has a working port (enough for coastal freighters at least) by the howling I've gotten over talking about the docks being closed, and is small enough for that labour to be very cheap.

So why are Medhall and Coil's Unnamed Construction company considered colossi of employment there, unless the manufacturing jobs have been outsourced SOMEWHERE? And if outsourced... WHERE?

There's a reason most superhero settings change very little about the world economy. It's because the worldbuilding needed rapidly gets out of hand.

 

[Ack]

We're talking about the cheap burner phones of canon.

If you fuck up the world economy as much as Wildbow did then no amount of applied butterfly netting will get you the same "cheap electronics" infestation of RL unless you very specifically explain where they are made.

And given how Mexico was already pretty bad pre-1985? I doubt it's America's Factory.

And if the manufacturing is still in the United States, then the economy wouldn't shit on the lower classes nearly so badly! Brockton Bay is a modestly sized city (not large town, city) by Northeastern United States standards, it's large enough to have lots of labour available, still has a working port (enough for coastal freighters at least) by the howling I've gotten over talking about the docks being closed, and is small enough for that labour to be very cheap.

So why are Medhall and Coil's Unnamed Construction company considered colossi of employment there, unless the manufacturing jobs have been outsourced SOMEWHERE? And if outsourced... WHERE?

There's a reason most superhero settings change very little about the world economy. It's because the worldbuilding needed rapidly gets out of hand.

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Brockton Bay doesn't do manufacturing.

 

[Guardian54]

Brockton Bay doesn't do manufacturing.

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1. Has notable unemployment, particularly of not-too-educated populace -> Cheap Labour
2. No unions left except the DWU, and even they're desperate -> easily handled Labour
3. Has sea access and docks that can handle at least coastal freighters -> Moderately cheap Transportation, could be better with better dock facilities but still much better than any place inland without sizable rivers/canals.

So if they have no manufacturing, the question is... why not? Even a city like Toronto has plenty of manufacturing still happening in it, and it doesn't have nearly as cheap labour, plus mostly uses in-land transportation grid which is far more expensive than ships.