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You know, the more you push Du, the more I have absolutely no desire to see him/her? I'm pretty much committed to voting against ever possibly picking Du up now.
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Dungeon Delver Quest (Original Fantasy... again)
- Thread starter yrsillar
- Start date
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- Tags
- adventure job system
You know, the more you push Du, the more I have absolutely no desire to see him/her? I'm pretty much committed to voting against ever possibly picking Du up now.
tEN
Mischief Maker
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That's because you're an asshole, and I accept that.
Sirrocco
Tiny but ambitious squid
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No. It's because you're being pushy, which some people find annoying. Also, you're really not doing yourself any favors with that response.
Worth noting that an "all things to all people" character is either hiding some serious issues somehow or is a Mary Stu. Characters in yrsillar quests tend to be pretty well-balanced... meaning that the broader Du's abilities are, the less potent they're likely to be, unless there's some significant drawback to deal with. (...like Murdan - potentially vast power. Potentially all sorts of flexibility. Whimper-inducing exp costs to get there from here.)
Anyway, by what we've seen thus far, it's entirely possible that Du Hansard is carrying on a thriving career as a shopkeeper. This leaves all sorts of opportunities for interactions and character development, but partying may not be in the cards at all.
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Day 1: Into the Tower
yrsillar
Dapper Cthulhu
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Ah, why not. He can save you some time and you can help the poor guy get a little farther, it's not like you're going to go to the top on the first trip. "Sure, that works for me."
Murdan briefly looks relieved, "Good, good, of course you wouldn't refuse," you aren't sure if he's talking to you or himself.
"Murdy's finally making friends, yay!" Sylph adds with a giggle, drawing a twitch from her summoner.
You shake your head, where did he find a spirit like that. You always thought they were supposed to be all alien and unknowable and stuff. Then you remember another question you had, "Oh yeah, D'you know if it's normal for the guy who runs this place to give out free potions?"
Murdan nods. "Yes, he is quite generous with them… because they are bait," he adds the last a bit bitterly. "The potions are of the highest quality, but the woman who makes them is… abrasive as well as expensive." He gives the elf behind the counter a contemplative look, "I believe they are siblings, but you know, for the life of me I cannot recognize which of the Elven lands they are from."
You shrug, according to most foreigners your folk are pretty abrasive too, so you can hardly fault somebody else for that. If her works good her works good, that's all that should matter for a crafter. "You could just ask him if it's bugging you," you point out.
"And be given a non-answer again," he grumbles. "In any case, the peculiarities of this place's patron do not matter much, are you prepared to venture forth?"
"Wow, so serious all of a sudden," Sylph teases.
"I am half inclined to dismiss you and summon one of the others if you keep this up," he retorts irritably to the fluttering sprite on his shoulder.
You hold back a snicker and move to stand, "Yeah, sure. I'm ready to go."
The two of you make your way out of Gemnus' pavilion. You tune out the minor bickering between Murdan and his summon as you work your way through the crowd, it's not too hard to get through, your size is enough to make people move aside for the most part, not that you act like some kinda thug and shove people around. You figure it's not worth pissing people off to save a few seconds.
Soon enough the tower looms ahead. An empty ring of well trampled and somewhat burnt dirt forming a perimeter some hundred paces out from the base to the nearest tents. The bottom of the tower is encircled by a short flight of stairs leading up to the many archways leading inside.
"A great deal of effort was spent just forcing the monsters back inside," Murdan comments, answering your unasked question, "I believe some folk take it upon themselves to watch for monsters trying to enter the encampment, but they no longer emerge in worrying numbers."
"I'll have to remember to sleep lightly then," you reply, giving the darkened entrances a measuring look. The afternoon light seems to dim near this place, like the black stone was absorbing the light. "Then again, I guess I'm gonna have to do that anyway if I don't wanna get robbed."
"Indeed," he grimaces, "I know a few enterprising folk who have set up 'safe areas' where they and their comrades will guard ones sleep for a fee."
"Or take advantage themselves," you respond wryly.
"Those who do, do not stay in business long," he retorts, "Just give me a moment to change spirits, with you here Sylph's defensive abilities should be less needed…"
"Rude!" cries the sprite, "Murdy shouldn't be mean just because he doesn't like my advice!" She cries out as she fades away.
You glance from the empty air where she once was to your companions face, "…You enjoyed that didn't you?"
He clears his throat, glancing away, "Some of my spirits are a tad… trying, yes."
You shake your head, amused, waiting for him to do his thing. It's a little annoying that it takes him almost a minute to call up the other spirit, during which he's apparently stuck standing still with his eyes closed, but you guess that's why he needs a bit of help. The new spirit is a tiny woman with bright red skin a shade lighter than yours and hair made of fire, who merely gives you an assessing look and a respectful nod instead of jabbering on. Finally Murdan opens his eyes and sighs tiredly, earning an unimpressed look from his silent spirit, "Alright then, shall we venture unto the breach then Miss Yuuka?"
"Just Yuuka," you dismiss, "And yeah, let's get going."
Your first impression of the towers interior is… that it's kind of a dump. It looks like the aftermath of a new year's festival in here. Shattered and charred stone, cracked masonry, doors torn off their hinges, the whole shebang. You don't like the décor much though; you never were one for skulls, unlike some people back home. Oddly you don't see a single sign of bodies or even blood anywhere despite the obvious signs of combat.
Murdan leads you through the twisting, empty passages, and you admit it's a real trial keeping track of where you're going with the sheer number of turns and doors and chambers full of shattered sarcophagi you have to go through, but eventually your companion slows his confidant pace. You can't help but notice that the passages you are in now are also far more intact, "This is around where I began encountering enemies last time," he says quietly, gesturing to some deep gauges in the wall, bisecting a particularly large fresco of skeletons bowing down in worship to… something. "The tower does seem to have some capacity to… regenerate, as it were, but the sheer number of people coming through is allowing us to push deeper."
You roll your shoulders and grin, pulling your club from where it hangs on your back, the comfortable and familiar weight fiiling you with confidence. "Alright, lets push it a little farther then, huh?"
You take the lead from here, striding confidently down the hall, although you do keep a sharp eye out for anything funny, a sprung pressure plate here, a broken blade trap there, nothing dangerous yet. That doesn't last long though, after Murdan directs you away from a tunnel he has already explored, you emerge in a small chamber lined with still more of the ever present sarcophagi, here though they are unbroken, and you only have Murdan's warning to prepare you for the skeletons that shamble out, eye sockets burning with cold light.
There are only four of the things though, and even if the ancient weapons they hold still look sharp, you aren't too worried. Grinning, you bring your club down on the floor, cracking the tiles in front of you, "Come at me!" It gets their attention, if nothing else, you aren't sure they even notice Murdan murmuring under his breath in your shadow. The next few seconds are chaotic as the undead rush you and you were forced to dodge blows of rusty swords, one manages to land a shallow cut on your forearm, but by then you've managed to wind up for a swing, and when your club comes down it reduces a skeleton to rapidly dissolving powder and shards.
At the same instant a lance of white hot flame burns through the air at your side and blasts another skeleton to splinters. With only two left, defending yourself gets a whole lot easier, and in a few more seconds they get pulverized as well.
"Are you well M… Yuuka," you hear Murdan call from behind you in the aftermath.
You shrug as you turn to face him resting your club on your shoulder, "Just a scratch, Whats the deal with these monsters though, even their weapons are dissolving." You gesture at the bones crumbling into twinkling white light.
"Just give it a moment," he responds. Indeed a few seconds later the motes from the dissolving monsters gather into a ball and then burst, leaving behind four shards of deucite.
You blink, surprised and a bit nonplussed. Reaching down you scoop the deucite off the floor, examining the weird shards of purple crystal… no that's not quite right, it's kinda metallic, like un-smelted ore. "Neat," you declare, before glancing back at Murdan to see him watching you with… a hint of wariness?
Oh right, you hold out your hand to him, "Two for each of us, right?"
He nods, seeming a bit relieved, "Quite so." He plucks his share out of your hand and the two of you stow your loot away before continuing on. "It is too bad we cannot destroy the sarcophagi, they will spawn more skeletons given time."
You give him a confused look, but bring up your club, quickly bringing it down in a two handed smash on the nearest sarcophagi… only to grunt in discomfort when your club rebounds, leaving only a tiny crack, "Huh, guess we can't." You glare at the thing. maybe if you used your daily from Breaker you could destroy one. "How did the rest of them get wrecked?"
"Large amounts of alchemical explosives," he answers dryly as you shake your stinging fingers.
"Tch, let me get a little stronger, and I can do it myself," you boast, a little irritated at the resilience of the stone box.
Soon enough you reach another split in the passage. One path continues straight on, and seems entirely unmarred, the rightmost path is a bit banged up, and you think you hear the sounds of battle in the distance. The left tunnel is unmarred too but the air feels clammy and cold, stinking of rot.
"Hm, That's new…" Murdan comments, wrinkling his nose as he peers down the left hallway. "I have not seen the atmosphere in here differ noticeably like this." The tiny woman on his shoulder has a disgusted look on her face too.
Hmm… Murdan will probably follow you whichever way you choose, you are his meatshield. So…
+2 XP
+2 Deucite Shards
[] Straight
[] Right
[] Left
((Alright, here we go. Your Omake is noted by the way Bailey))
Yuuka's Current Health: 5/6
Murdan briefly looks relieved, "Good, good, of course you wouldn't refuse," you aren't sure if he's talking to you or himself.
"Murdy's finally making friends, yay!" Sylph adds with a giggle, drawing a twitch from her summoner.
You shake your head, where did he find a spirit like that. You always thought they were supposed to be all alien and unknowable and stuff. Then you remember another question you had, "Oh yeah, D'you know if it's normal for the guy who runs this place to give out free potions?"
Murdan nods. "Yes, he is quite generous with them… because they are bait," he adds the last a bit bitterly. "The potions are of the highest quality, but the woman who makes them is… abrasive as well as expensive." He gives the elf behind the counter a contemplative look, "I believe they are siblings, but you know, for the life of me I cannot recognize which of the Elven lands they are from."
You shrug, according to most foreigners your folk are pretty abrasive too, so you can hardly fault somebody else for that. If her works good her works good, that's all that should matter for a crafter. "You could just ask him if it's bugging you," you point out.
"And be given a non-answer again," he grumbles. "In any case, the peculiarities of this place's patron do not matter much, are you prepared to venture forth?"
"Wow, so serious all of a sudden," Sylph teases.
"I am half inclined to dismiss you and summon one of the others if you keep this up," he retorts irritably to the fluttering sprite on his shoulder.
You hold back a snicker and move to stand, "Yeah, sure. I'm ready to go."
The two of you make your way out of Gemnus' pavilion. You tune out the minor bickering between Murdan and his summon as you work your way through the crowd, it's not too hard to get through, your size is enough to make people move aside for the most part, not that you act like some kinda thug and shove people around. You figure it's not worth pissing people off to save a few seconds.
Soon enough the tower looms ahead. An empty ring of well trampled and somewhat burnt dirt forming a perimeter some hundred paces out from the base to the nearest tents. The bottom of the tower is encircled by a short flight of stairs leading up to the many archways leading inside.
"A great deal of effort was spent just forcing the monsters back inside," Murdan comments, answering your unasked question, "I believe some folk take it upon themselves to watch for monsters trying to enter the encampment, but they no longer emerge in worrying numbers."
"I'll have to remember to sleep lightly then," you reply, giving the darkened entrances a measuring look. The afternoon light seems to dim near this place, like the black stone was absorbing the light. "Then again, I guess I'm gonna have to do that anyway if I don't wanna get robbed."
"Indeed," he grimaces, "I know a few enterprising folk who have set up 'safe areas' where they and their comrades will guard ones sleep for a fee."
"Or take advantage themselves," you respond wryly.
"Those who do, do not stay in business long," he retorts, "Just give me a moment to change spirits, with you here Sylph's defensive abilities should be less needed…"
"Rude!" cries the sprite, "Murdy shouldn't be mean just because he doesn't like my advice!" She cries out as she fades away.
You glance from the empty air where she once was to your companions face, "…You enjoyed that didn't you?"
He clears his throat, glancing away, "Some of my spirits are a tad… trying, yes."
You shake your head, amused, waiting for him to do his thing. It's a little annoying that it takes him almost a minute to call up the other spirit, during which he's apparently stuck standing still with his eyes closed, but you guess that's why he needs a bit of help. The new spirit is a tiny woman with bright red skin a shade lighter than yours and hair made of fire, who merely gives you an assessing look and a respectful nod instead of jabbering on. Finally Murdan opens his eyes and sighs tiredly, earning an unimpressed look from his silent spirit, "Alright then, shall we venture unto the breach then Miss Yuuka?"
"Just Yuuka," you dismiss, "And yeah, let's get going."
Your first impression of the towers interior is… that it's kind of a dump. It looks like the aftermath of a new year's festival in here. Shattered and charred stone, cracked masonry, doors torn off their hinges, the whole shebang. You don't like the décor much though; you never were one for skulls, unlike some people back home. Oddly you don't see a single sign of bodies or even blood anywhere despite the obvious signs of combat.
Murdan leads you through the twisting, empty passages, and you admit it's a real trial keeping track of where you're going with the sheer number of turns and doors and chambers full of shattered sarcophagi you have to go through, but eventually your companion slows his confidant pace. You can't help but notice that the passages you are in now are also far more intact, "This is around where I began encountering enemies last time," he says quietly, gesturing to some deep gauges in the wall, bisecting a particularly large fresco of skeletons bowing down in worship to… something. "The tower does seem to have some capacity to… regenerate, as it were, but the sheer number of people coming through is allowing us to push deeper."
You roll your shoulders and grin, pulling your club from where it hangs on your back, the comfortable and familiar weight fiiling you with confidence. "Alright, lets push it a little farther then, huh?"
You take the lead from here, striding confidently down the hall, although you do keep a sharp eye out for anything funny, a sprung pressure plate here, a broken blade trap there, nothing dangerous yet. That doesn't last long though, after Murdan directs you away from a tunnel he has already explored, you emerge in a small chamber lined with still more of the ever present sarcophagi, here though they are unbroken, and you only have Murdan's warning to prepare you for the skeletons that shamble out, eye sockets burning with cold light.
There are only four of the things though, and even if the ancient weapons they hold still look sharp, you aren't too worried. Grinning, you bring your club down on the floor, cracking the tiles in front of you, "Come at me!" It gets their attention, if nothing else, you aren't sure they even notice Murdan murmuring under his breath in your shadow. The next few seconds are chaotic as the undead rush you and you were forced to dodge blows of rusty swords, one manages to land a shallow cut on your forearm, but by then you've managed to wind up for a swing, and when your club comes down it reduces a skeleton to rapidly dissolving powder and shards.
At the same instant a lance of white hot flame burns through the air at your side and blasts another skeleton to splinters. With only two left, defending yourself gets a whole lot easier, and in a few more seconds they get pulverized as well.
"Are you well M… Yuuka," you hear Murdan call from behind you in the aftermath.
You shrug as you turn to face him resting your club on your shoulder, "Just a scratch, Whats the deal with these monsters though, even their weapons are dissolving." You gesture at the bones crumbling into twinkling white light.
"Just give it a moment," he responds. Indeed a few seconds later the motes from the dissolving monsters gather into a ball and then burst, leaving behind four shards of deucite.
You blink, surprised and a bit nonplussed. Reaching down you scoop the deucite off the floor, examining the weird shards of purple crystal… no that's not quite right, it's kinda metallic, like un-smelted ore. "Neat," you declare, before glancing back at Murdan to see him watching you with… a hint of wariness?
Oh right, you hold out your hand to him, "Two for each of us, right?"
He nods, seeming a bit relieved, "Quite so." He plucks his share out of your hand and the two of you stow your loot away before continuing on. "It is too bad we cannot destroy the sarcophagi, they will spawn more skeletons given time."
You give him a confused look, but bring up your club, quickly bringing it down in a two handed smash on the nearest sarcophagi… only to grunt in discomfort when your club rebounds, leaving only a tiny crack, "Huh, guess we can't." You glare at the thing. maybe if you used your daily from Breaker you could destroy one. "How did the rest of them get wrecked?"
"Large amounts of alchemical explosives," he answers dryly as you shake your stinging fingers.
"Tch, let me get a little stronger, and I can do it myself," you boast, a little irritated at the resilience of the stone box.
Soon enough you reach another split in the passage. One path continues straight on, and seems entirely unmarred, the rightmost path is a bit banged up, and you think you hear the sounds of battle in the distance. The left tunnel is unmarred too but the air feels clammy and cold, stinking of rot.
"Hm, That's new…" Murdan comments, wrinkling his nose as he peers down the left hallway. "I have not seen the atmosphere in here differ noticeably like this." The tiny woman on his shoulder has a disgusted look on her face too.
Hmm… Murdan will probably follow you whichever way you choose, you are his meatshield. So…
+2 XP
+2 Deucite Shards
[] Straight
[] Right
[] Left
((Alright, here we go. Your Omake is noted by the way Bailey))
Yuuka's Current Health: 5/6
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mrttao
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missing words at the red
heh, oni parties
isn't this a good thing? skeletons are weak and they provide dulcite. if they are destroyed....
well i guess i can see it as a way to prevent competition if you ensure that only higher level enemies are spawning as such deny any new entrants a chance of getting anywhere.
alternatively, maybe the sarcophagi give big loot when destroyed
ok so, straight ahead is most monsters, virgin area.
left is zombies
right is NPC adventurer fighting enemies
I am really not sure where i would like to go
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Arkatekt
Harbinger of Shitluck
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The side passages are obvious hooks.
Left will probably get us a mini-boss or elite, and right will be a character intro and possibility for expanding the party.*
Not sure if I want to expand the party right now. That said, I do think we will want to do so before going left.
so... my vote.
[X] Right
*edit: it could also be some assholes who need us to break their faces.
Left will probably get us a mini-boss or elite, and right will be a character intro and possibility for expanding the party.*
Not sure if I want to expand the party right now. That said, I do think we will want to do so before going left.
so... my vote.
[X] Right
*edit: it could also be some assholes who need us to break their faces.
UrsaTempest
Yuri Fanatic, Archivist
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[X] Straight
I'm sure we can tank 'em!
I'm sure we can tank 'em!
Darkened
Experienced.
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[X] Right
No prep, no gear upgrades, few heals.
Essentially, if one fight takes 1hp against some of the weakest mobs, we can make 5 fights before needing to be back or healed. However, mobs can potentially respawn behind us, meaning that we'll want 2-3 HP left as a margin.
Potions help expand our margin, but going deeper makes our return longer. Other fights may go better or worse. The net effect is we shouldn't be rushing into the dangerous or unknown just yet.
The right path looks potentially troubling, but we can enter a battle that already has people fighting which may give us heals or help us trigger plot-hooks.
No prep, no gear upgrades, few heals.
Essentially, if one fight takes 1hp against some of the weakest mobs, we can make 5 fights before needing to be back or healed. However, mobs can potentially respawn behind us, meaning that we'll want 2-3 HP left as a margin.
Potions help expand our margin, but going deeper makes our return longer. Other fights may go better or worse. The net effect is we shouldn't be rushing into the dangerous or unknown just yet.
The right path looks potentially troubling, but we can enter a battle that already has people fighting which may give us heals or help us trigger plot-hooks.
mrttao
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we need a healbitch
Arkeus
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[X] Right
Comparing it to Murdan who is a classic World-saving-hero is a joke.
Yes, I am beginning to hate Murdan.
*Blink*. Where is Du a "All things to all people" character? Like, he is basically, as far as I can tell, a "make gear one grade higher when worn" character. That's limited as heck and probably the least mary suish character that was proposed.
Comparing it to Murdan who is a classic World-saving-hero is a joke.
Yes, I am beginning to hate Murdan.
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Bre Karn
(Very Slow) Writer of Glorious Smut
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[X] Right
-[X] Suggest to Murdan a rule of thumb for loot, applicable for future party members as well: stuff you can use or require for jobs has priority, shards are evenly divided. In case of a conflict, such as single drops of rarer forms of deucite, or stuff that several party members can use and which would actually increase ability, a lottery is made, and the winner is excluded from the pool until all party members have had something.
So yeah, I had this idea about renaming Cryos into Elsa, and I couldn't let it go, so I edited the omake:
So please gracefully wait your turn.
And as far as character development goes, well, I made some effort to tie him to a gallery of funny secondary characters, because interaction is good (and apparently yrsillar likes it, though I'd have penned Sylph as more airheaded than teasy ), and a character with a clear, if a bit clichéd, motivation and drive to succeed is IMHO good to have, rather than a total blank slate whose defining traits are 'genderfluid' and 'woobie one-trick pony who can't into real magic, somehow ended up in the Tower with no clear motivation'.
And if you start hating him for no real reason, then it's your loss.
Look, I'm not really willing to go into a lengthy multi-page debate about pet characters, so could we please all remember that we're here to have fun reading yrsillar's writings, and chill the fuck out?
-[X] Suggest to Murdan a rule of thumb for loot, applicable for future party members as well: stuff you can use or require for jobs has priority, shards are evenly divided. In case of a conflict, such as single drops of rarer forms of deucite, or stuff that several party members can use and which would actually increase ability, a lottery is made, and the winner is excluded from the pool until all party members have had something.
So yeah, I had this idea about renaming Cryos into Elsa, and I couldn't let it go, so I edited the omake:
Heck, in the mysterious times of 'PG18+', Toughness was another required stat, for 'spirit refueling', whatever that was
Pot, kettle. If you wanted your pet character so badly, you could have opened with your omake (which was nice), and left it at that. Now you are just looking like a child throwing a tantrum. I would actually have supported making Du the next party member, but you are really doing yourself a disservice.
So please gracefully wait your turn.
Err, sorry, but that's being disingenuous, to say the least. In the omake I shoehorned Murdan so that he would need a party to realistically survive, and made it so that he could fill most missing roles depending on what yrsillar planned to do. He's not his mythical harem-protagonist ancestor who allegedly soloed a Tower.
And as far as character development goes, well, I made some effort to tie him to a gallery of funny secondary characters, because interaction is good (and apparently yrsillar likes it, though I'd have penned Sylph as more airheaded than teasy
), and a character with a clear, if a bit clichéd, motivation and drive to succeed is IMHO good to have, rather than a total blank slate whose defining traits are 'genderfluid' and 'woobie one-trick pony who can't into real magic, somehow ended up in the Tower with no clear motivation'. And if you start hating him for no real reason, then it's your loss.
Look, I'm not really willing to go into a lengthy multi-page debate about pet characters, so could we please all remember that we're here to have fun reading yrsillar's writings, and chill the fuck out?
tEN
Mischief Maker
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I mean, I think Chandra is an asshole for reasons that have nothing to do with this thread, but okay. I can see how people thought I was using that post as evidence.
Anyways, I'm not so sure Yuuka is a killstealer.
[X] Straight
mrttao
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1. are we even aware of loot items being a thing? as far as we heard so far they only drop monster blood aka XP
2. I never actually liked the "need" system. I always preferred a stake systems where every item that drops is equally owned by all people. if someone wants it he can buy the other's shares at market price, or it can be sold and the money split up.
Bre Karn
(Very Slow) Writer of Glorious Smut
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Well, that works, I guess, but wouldn't it be harder to manage, if fairer?
mrttao
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Eh, I don't think its really an issue. its simple algebra and there aren't that many items that are kept
yrsillar
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because ultimately a whole lot of people's goal is to actually get to the top not just farm skellies for shards forever, and having to fight through less endless hordes is conducive to penetrating deeper into the tower.
anything else is a bonus.
Sirrocco
Tiny but ambitious squid
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Started out that way... but "can serve as party tank", "can serve as party DPS", "can serve as healer - buff your potions for you", "can totally unlock doors"...
Du's skill-set is somewhat nebulous at the moment. The more breadth you push on it, though, the less focused power it's going to have. Continuing to come up with "Oh, and of course he/she could also do *this*" without establishing a structure of "and here are our drawbacks and clear practical limitations" means that either you're spreading yourself thin, you're making promises that just aren't true, or there's some major weakness or flaw that you're not acknowledging (and since yrsillar is the one making that call here, you don't even know which one it is).
Incidentally, Shadow's schtick...
- She's built on a mage-like chassis. She has a bunch of weird little utility powers that she can use without limitation, some of which have defensive advantages. Overall, this makes her a bit more durable than the average mage, but still much less so than anyone who's actually wearing armor. It also makes certain puzzles a lot easier (though it's a bit random which ones) and can gives some significant tactical advantages (though only if she lucks out, or can set things up to emphasize her advantages beforehand - which in the tower doesn't necessarily happen all that often). A lot of that is probably on the stealth/mobility side of things, but, again, far less than a character focused on that sort of thing. Still, when she *can* set up an ambush, she can do pretty well at taking advantage of it.
- She has a single standard attack. It's a bit awkward to use for the moment (short range, single-target, possibly a bit inaccurate) but pretty powerful when it does connect. She can also spam it all day long if she wants to. As she gets more powerful, it'll smooth out the kinks and start picking up upgrades that will make the whole thing work a lot better (like built-in debuffs, built-in knockback, possibly eventual multitargeting, and so forth).
- She has a variety of Channeling attacks, where she's not really doing things herself as asking her patron to extrude something into the world. These are large, powerful, *fully* capable of friendly fire, and cost favor (which is something that she gets for making kill-shots and following the whims of said patron, slowly degrades over time, and needs as part of the cost for buying powers).
- She has a variety of weird little flaws she has to manage
In her case, then, she starts our as a blaster/utility mage.
Her comparative advantages as a party member
- a bit more durable
- her standard (ie free) attack is quite nice as mage default attacks go
- she doesn't have the "running out of juice" issue except on most powerful attacks
- good at ambushing
- her most powerful attacks are really pretty impressive.
Her comparative disadvantages as a party member
- She can't amp up damage output anything like as gracefully - she has default and max, with nothign in between
- no party buffs or party healing at all.
- utility powers are more eclectic (and less broad) than normal for the type (though free is nice)
- her most powerful attacks are quite a lot more expensive to her than a standard mage's 1/day effects are to them
- will insist on getting at least some of the kill-shots herself - she needs them.
edit: tweaked for clarity in response to later posts
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Arkeus
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Oh, then I totally missed stuff about Du. Because all I saw about Du was only "Extremely gear-dependant character thief based on toughness (of gear) but can't dodge nor heal nor dps nor CC". So, huh, just a CON thief that has a lot of 'use magic item' skill.
Why I really like Du is basically the whole society Baily built around that race as well as finding the naming schtick neat.
Why I am seriously considering ditching Murdan as fast as possible is because this is a flatly avowed character that a°) can do everything, b°) comes in with its own harem, c°) has a really really annoying 'bitter/dry' character, d°) has legendary skillset, and not only are all of those super mary sue but also super boring.
That's good to know, because my impression of Shadow was that she was a standard "Cannibal MC" who gets stronger through rituals, so she would end up both using Deucite and capturing other 'Heroes' to do the same thing, and as far as I knew she was basically a jack of all trade that could enhance any part she liked.
While those are a loooot of advantages there it seems this can be put in the usual 'Warlock that is slightly beefier than a standard mage, can't buff other people, and can sacrifice parts of herself for bigass attacks'.
yrsillar
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I'll just state right out, the way I intend to run Du's abilities is that he/she is all about modifying item quality. At base level this is mostly just fudging numbers around, I.E making a sword sharper or a lock easier to pick, but later on they'll probably be able to modify and add/remove qualities from stuff.
...So basically Du is about as support-y as it gets.
...So basically Du is about as support-y as it gets.
Bre Karn
(Very Slow) Writer of Glorious Smut
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Wrong? Because he can only do the things he puts deucite in, which will tend to be the things that the party would otherwise lack, and explicitly requires, both in the omake intro, and what yrsillar has written, a party?
No? His roster of funny characters that yrsillar apparently likes to write?
You must not have read yrsillar's posts then, or you are writing words you do not understand the meaning of.
Well apparently yrsillar likes it enough to actually run it, or else he has adapted it to the story's needs, which in both cases voids your claims.
Okay, so in conclusion you are either lying through your teeth +/- trolling, or have such a distorted perception of reality that discussing with you is pointless. Good to know.
Sirrocco
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Eh? I tried to set it up as fairly balanced. Where are you seeing the mass of (comparative) advantages?
Also, I'll admit, this character concept pretty much started out as a D&D warlock (and then got mucked with).
Mostly, I get the impression that Arkeus feels bitter about what's happening with Lona (one of the only two not invited to the vote, came through the gate with her own tank in tow, so much less likely to group) and it's coloring his perceptions. There's *some* seed of truth in what he's saying. Your spirits are all female, at least reasonably attractive, often provocatively dressed, with various forms of flirty vibe. You're hitting a fair number of harem anime tropes there. I personally happen to enjoy it, and the QM seems to like it, but it's not like there's nothing there. Similarly, the character does at least technically have a legendary skillset that's capable of anything. On the flip side, for the "super Mary Sue" and "super boring" parts, I have to assume that's just the salt, because I really can't see any justification for them.
Admittedly, I can't blame you for being dismissive, as you are basically being attacked directly and without provocation. (...unless one chooses to take "His character got to party up first, and mine probably won't." as provocation - which would be *silly*.)
Arkeus
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She has higher defense than a mage, has more reliability than a mage, and hit harder than a mage. Only the latest of those comes at a cost. "Insist on getting the killing shot herself" is also very much 'Look at me' characteristic, and something I would put as an advantage.
What do you think "Super Mary Sue" mean? This is probably a different view on characters, but as far as I can tell Murdan is as Mary Sue has they get. 'Boring' is, I admit, subjective, but I also pointed out why I felt he was boring: the dry and bitter speech.
No, the provocation is the insults toward Du's character that have nothing to do with how the character ispresented. They are basically insulting a character for things their own character is doing but a thousand time more, so I pointed it out. I have a big thing against hypocritical blustery.
Bre Karn
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You don't even know what a Mary Sue is, it seems
So basically you are saying that yrsillar makes poor dialogue?
Are you out of your fucking mind? All I did before you started your slander and hate campaign was ask Bailey Mathutine to stop being pushy.
Sirrocco
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Nooo...
- The standard mage has a wide range of intensity at which they can engage. This goes all the way from relatively minor attacks that effectively cost nothing (back-up weapon), up through a variety of standard attacks at low to moderate cost (bread and butter) to the serious heavy-hitters (panicbuttons or boss fights). Regardless of what they spend, if you let them go home and sleep it off, they wake up the next day fully refreshed and ready to do it again. (details may vary, but this is pretty universal)
- Shadow has two intensity levels. The first is her default attack, which is free, and clocks in a bit above the free attacks of the standard mage - comparable to their lowest tier of resource-costing attacks. In the long term, it'll be more broadly applicable and versatile than any one of those attacks, but be more limited in that it's her *only* attack, while the standard wizard can pick and choose the right spell for the situation. The second is her channeling attacks, which are both a notch more potent than and quite a bit more meaningfully expensive than the top-tier attacks of a standard mage. As long as she's throwing her default attack, she can do it all day, but if she has to pull out the big guns, it takes a lot mroe than "go home and sleep it off" to recover.
- The standard mage also often has a number of useful utility and secondary effects - healing, buffing, mobility, puzzle-solving, and so forth. The depth and breadth of such powers is one of the selling points of such mages, but they also cost from the same pools that power their mid-range attack spells.
- Shadow has no access to buffs or heals at all. As far as other utility magics go, hers are free, but they don't have the same breadth or flexibility. Rather than a library of spells, she has a smallish collection of inherent abilities.
As far as advantages and disadvantages go, I was describing her advantages and disadvantages as a potential party member - where "insists on getting the killing shot herself" is one of those things you have to plan around, and therefore a disadvantage. If we were talkign about her advantages and disadvantages as a main character, there's a lot mroe stuff that woudl go in there (the fact that she's oddly physically warped, and that this can have social implications, and so forth). Of course, even there, the fact that she has to get the killing shot some of the time is a disadvantage, as it hampers her ability to work with others. The only place where "has to get the killing shot" could be seen as an advantage is in the "Who is the most Special" contest, and that one's not really pertinent to the decisionmaking at hand.
Someone who is ridiculously overpowered to the point of trivializing all meaningful opposition, where the only real justification is that the author (and, hopefully, the audience) enjoys watching them win. Often the protagonist of a self-insert fic. Bonus points for having the world revolve around them.
In context, it might be used somewhat hyperbolically to indicate someone who is unfairly overpowered and/or ridiculously far up on the "more special than thou" scale. Murdan isn't either one. He's not ridiculously overpowered because he still has to climb the same exp mountain as everyone else, and he's not actually all that overpowered at any point along the way. He's customizable, sure - his skill tree offers a lot of build flexibility... but we're already more powerful than he is in terms of raw ability, and we only just got here, while he's been working on it for a bit. Similarly, Murdan does have a nonstandard magic type. it's "legendary" only because he had an ancestor long ago who managed to stumble into it and generate a few legends - but there are heroc ancestors all over the place on all sorts of skillsets. It's rarely used... but that's likely because the "must have personal connection to specific spirits" thing doesn't really lend itself to spreading the skillset far and wide - meaning that it's going to tend to die out pretty regularly, only to be rediscovered from ancient journals. It doesn't involve anything *inherently* more important or deeply meaningful than any other caster class. Sure, it makes him unusual... but this place is chock-full of unusual people. New towers self-select for oddballs to a degree. A twoer is, among other things, a guaranteed way to become badass at whatever it is that you are even if there's no one else to teach you how to do it (assuming you live).
So, no. Not a "Super Mary Sue".
Arkeus
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*Blink*.... That's... OK, I think we have completely different ideas on what mages in this setting are going to be, so the point is moot. I was imagining mages in this setting as also having only 2 intensity: either using 10 small spells a day, or using 2 big spells a day for example. So a 'free attack' that's the equivalent to a fifth of of what a mage can do in a day looks to me like something really big, but that's basically just my big assumption.
Likewise, I was assuming 'mage can't fight in melee at all without using a lot of spells'. Furthermore, 'Healing' was something I was assuming was completely impossible for mages, and puzzle-solving was for support class, etc.
So yes, this basically look like we are assuming very different systems so no need to talk about it.
It's actually really pertinent, as it means being seen as more important to the group/etc.
Yeah, again we have very, very differing view on what a Mary Sue is. Likeiwe, 'everyone is unusal' actually is not a good argument when the person begins with the Ultimate Personifications of Elements. It seems we are basically assuming very, very different things about the settings, and that we have very different definition of what a Mary Sue is.
For me, a Mary Sue is basically someone the setting has special positive rules about compared to others.
Sirrocco
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That depends entirely on group dynamic and what individual characters value. If you're in a group where "who got the most kill shots" is in and of itself a big part or the defining part of how people evaluate your usefulness or importance (especially prevalent in FPS land, where kill shots are tracked and reported for all to see after the game) then yeah - I could see that. In a system like this, though... it looks like we're going to be running around in relatively small and frequently changing parties, especially at the beginning. In that case, while there *might* be someone who was easily impressed and gullible enough that you could convince them to let you get all the kills, and then convince them that you were awesome because you got all the kills, it's much more likely to be taken as a small tactical liability (which is what it is). Fortunately, she only needs to get a decent share of the kills, and she's reasonably well-suited to the role of making that happen. If she had to get *all* of the kills, it would be a pretty honking large liability.
Ah... see, the way I see it is that in this setting, many if not most spellcasters (and certainly all divine spellcasters) are somehow tying into some greater power, often one who has Great Cosmic Significance. The "Ultimate Personifications of Elements" as we've seen them are relatively small and weak and have somewhat petty desires and drives. It's *probable* that they're more summonable iconic constructs that correspond to those elements and can call upon them than that they are somehow fundamental to the element in question. (ie, that "Sylph is the Spirit of Wind" is a significant fact about Sylph, but not a particularly significant fact about Wind.) Now, the lore that he got from his grandfather suggests otherwise... but spellcasters who truck with fundamental forces often convince themselves that what they're doing is a bigger deal than what it actually is.