Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

[Talon Tiger Dino]

Just let our wolf do normal wolf things, none of this indiscriminate gluttony or self-destructive starving.

Also Ash is weirdly affectionate for a creature of hate, pain, and regret. He gives us headbutts and licks while we're in the Wake, hell, he wags his tail. I didn't know wolf-spawn were even capable of feeling sufficient positive emotion to do that, thought the best they could manage were malicious grins. It is bizarre.

 

[Bakkasama]

The Prey consequences feel like those from Starve, except they are Ash going all out instead of literally starving and munching on a pony because of the hunger.

So Copper will either be wounded or die if that is true, which if her cult really has our manuscripts is bad, because instead of them staying safe the cult might disband again and they will end up who knows where and we will need to scry for them again.
I honestly get the benefits of killing Copper but not before we know if anything she has will put Velvet in a sunbeam situation.

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On the other hoof, Cooper has bases with occult defenses that might prevent scrying and if she has the manuscripts then they are likely there. So having a random cultist take them away might actually make it easier to destroy them.


On to another topic... Does anyone remember whether summoning a Name gives Lore scraps? Would summoning Biedde give an Edge scrap?

 

[spiderhellian]

Would summoning Biedde give an Edge scrap?

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Nah, summoning Names haven't given scraps in the past.

But they can give max level influences, which give two scraps below level 5 if it's the first time the influence is applied (which iirc means we can still get them for Lantern/Edge/Winter/Forge/Heart)

 

[Pharohman777]

Tossing in my vote.


[X][ASH-GUARD] Stalk.

 

[Iustus Vitea]

Well at this point the vote is pretty set so if something does go catastrophically wrong I hold the right to say; I fucking told you so.

 

[Zxzx24]

[X][ASH-PREY] No prey
[X][ASH-GUARD] Stalk.

The wisest course of action, having been shown that we were a fool, and that we were manipulated by the master. Is clearly to continue engaging in a war that neither ourselves no Copper wanted.

I have counseled caution, and forbearance many times. I was right about Copper not being the one to attack us. I was roundly ignored because "She is our enemy."

With the same moth driven lie "She is our enemy" on peoples lips they point ash toward her. In spite of her having made no further move against us.

Truly a lie that people wish to be true is the most potent.

I'm… not entirely sure what your point is here? What does Neighnia have to do with her surviving Ash?

I mean, Neighnia still being around after Copper dies could be a problem, but that's a seperate issue entirely.

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Eh, if anyone has a way to increase someone's survivability it would be the winter name... or the heart name.

At least thats what I would do if I was Bird.

 

[Greymere]

With the same moth driven lie "She is our enemy" on peoples lips they point ash toward her. In spite of her having made no further move against us.

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It's been one turn, my dude. That's not exactly compelling evidence that she's decided to leave us alone. Considering what happened last time we assumed not hearing anything from someone = not up to anything that we should worry about.

 

[DelightedOne]

The thing with the occult war is that it is ancient and was restarted by Velvet "accepting" Copper's declaration of war when she decided to cast PtN.

This means that every cult that follows will end up doing like ones from the past and try to kill each other and if Velvet reaches Glory it will be back to square one for real.

I have no idea if the fires of war being reignited was a Velvet thing like with the Mother of Wolves or if it would happen anyway so instead of thinking of who to kill next we could try to end it? It happened once so we could do it, especially if it is a Velvet thing.

 

[Iustus Vitea]

You know this would be so soooo much simpler if we could follow BoH rules. Just find the right Numa, use said Numa and an Ink of Power to write a Great Work, find a crack in the weave of the world, wait for the season of Numa then present our Work for the consideration of the Hours. We'd be almost guaranteed to get a sponsor and so voila world is saved.

That is if any non-Wolf Hour is still around.

 

[Venerable Ro]

It's been one turn, my dude. That's not exactly compelling evidence that she's decided to leave us alone. Considering what happened last time we assumed not hearing anything from someone = not up to anything that we should worry about.

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That's why we should go look, evaluate the situation, see if there are any opportunities to deal with matters quietly/efficiently without having to trade blows. This is basically blind-fire in Copper's direction using a Wolf of all things as our weapon. I'm getting tired of fixing collateral damage caused by jumping at quick solutions.

That is if any non-Wolf Hour is still around is still around.

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The Elegiast is, if anyone is, it's his job.

 

[Zxzx24]

It's been one turn, my dude. That's not exactly compelling evidence that she's decided to leave us alone. Considering what happened last time we assumed not hearing anything from someone = not up to anything that we should worry about.

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Good idea! We better get in a pre-emptive strike against her for the crime of...

Minding her own buisness! What a dastardly schemer she is! Woe upon us for having to face such a wicked and cunning foe...

The thing with the occult war is that it is ancient and was restarted by Velvet "accepting" Copper's declaration of war when she decided to cast PtN.

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No. You seem to be misremembering the order of events.

The Master attacked us. We just assumed that it was Copper because Bird pulled a psy op on the thread with the rival thing.

 

[angelsadvocate666]

No. You seem to be misremembering the order of events.

The Master attacked us. We just assumed that it was Copper because Bird pulled a psy op on the thread with the rival thing.

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You're misremembering yourself. The Master attacked, and Velvet ignored it. Then Copper attacked with Neighnia—provoked by the Master, but still—and then Velvet responded. It was only after an attack undeniably came from that direction that the threads responded in kind. A lot of people, myself included, were actually considering letting it go before the second attack came.

Granted, after the second attack we did tend to assume it was Copper the first time, though there were a few who made allowances that it might not have been. It just didn't really matter since she was definitely attacking us now.

Well, unless you want to argue that Neighnia's attack had nothing to do with Copper, which is vaguely possible if highly unlikely.

 

[Greymere]

No. You seem to be misremembering the order of events.

The Master attacked us. We just assumed that it was Copper because Bird pulled a psy op on the thread with the rival thing.

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Yeah, and then Copper attacked us. With Neighnia. Which we know, for sure, because Neighnia literally showed up in our dreams. She's only absolved from the blame of sending the first EiB, which, may I remind you, we did not actually respond to.

 

[DelightedOne]

I'm still surprised people believed Copper would do 2 EiB in two consecutive turns but the second was the supercharged one when the smart thing to do would be to summon Neighnia and have her do the first, if that didn't work finding another way to kill Velvet or trying again the next month would be fine... but she obviously choose to kill Velvet by herself when she knew a Name who could do the job so much better because she hates Velvet that much.

 

[Greymere]

I'm still surprised people believed Copper would do 2 EiB in two consecutive turns but the second was the supercharged one when the smart thing to do would be to summon Neighnia and have her do the first, if that didn't work finding another way to kill Velvet or trying again the next month would be fine... but she obviously choose to kill Velvet by herself when she knew a Name who could do the job so much better because she hates Velvet that much.

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I mean, there was plausible motivation. In short succession, Copper thought that her warehouse had been raised by the Royal Guard, went to everyone else for help only for Comet and Velvet to leave (with Velvet goading Windy into also leaving), and then Velvet very publicly played host to the Captain of the Royal Guard and a royal alicorn. It would not take much effort to incorrectly link the dots and come to the conclusion that Velvet sold the cult out to the Crown.

Hell, she might still think that. Considering that after all of the above, Velvet promptly got promoted to one of the immediate subordinates of the alicorns, which effectively means she's only one or two steps down from the alicorns in authority.

 

[Zxzx24]

You're misremembering yourself. The Master attacked, and Velvet ignored it. Then Copper attacked with Neighnia—provoked by the Master, but still—and then Velvet responded. It was only after an attack undeniably came from that direction that the threads responded in kind. A lot of people, myself included, were actually considering letting it go before the second attack came.

Granted, after the second attack we did tend to assume it was Copper the first time, though there were a few who made allowances that it might not have been. It just didn't really matter since she was definitely attacking us now.

Well, unless you want to argue that Neighnia's attack had nothing to do with Copper, which is vaguely possible if highly unlikely.

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Yeah, and then Copper attacked us. With Neighnia. Which we know, for sure, because Neighnia literally showed up in our dreams. She's only absolved from the blame of sending the first EiB, which, may I remind you, we did not actually respond to.

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Yes. The great crime of...

Being fooled by the Master.

Truly an unforgiveable evil. Nevermind that pretty much the entire thread bought that same lie hook line and sinker.

I mean, there was plausible motivation.

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I disagree with this.

 

[Greymere]

I disagree with this.

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Which part?

 

[Iustus Vitea]

I believe it was Bird that hinted the Dyad partner was behind us in the Mansus, or rather Baldomare expected us to have already met them. There's also the fact that we won't have any issues keeping Biedde bound and we're assuming it's because of our position but what if it isn't? I've got this vague feeling of dread (and I suppose anticipation) about something that probably isn't gonna happen;

There's the thought in the back of my head that the reason there wasn't an attack this turn was because Copper was either preparing to summon them or had already done so and was using them to build up defences. That with us having summoned Biedde this turn and expecting a physical attack both members of the Corivalry are free to duke it out with our manor as the stage. Because you know Biedde is going to be there to throw down even if we use his action on something else.

A 'fun' addition to our current spat with Copper. That the occult wars of the new era are mirrored by that of the old. One might even call it a cross-generational bonding activity.

 

[DelightedOne]

I mean, there was plausible motivation. In short succession, Copper thought that her warehouse had been raised by the Royal Guard, went to everyone else for help only for Comet and Velvet to leave (with Velvet goading Windy into also leaving), and then Velvet very publicly played host to the Captain of the Royal Guard and a royal alicorn. It would not take much effort to incorrectly link the dots and come to the conclusion that Velvet sold the cult out to the Crown.

Hell, she might still think that. Considering that after all of the above, Velvet promptly got promoted to one of the immediate subordinates of the alicorns, which effectively means she's only one or two steps down from the alicorns in authority.

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Windy was literally the Winter pony of the cult, he is creepy, hearing the Wolf, used Comet to kill with a smile on his face and was in a nihilist spiral for most of his life... That sounds like a pony who would kill their old criminal coworkers after leaving the cult because he was too scared just to get rid of some evidence connecting him to the situation.

Copper already knew Velvet was getting close to the Alicorns for the Cult, her bailing to become Comissioner is not necessarily a "she told on us" moment it could also be a "she left us to play secret police" one. Velvet didn't directly tell Windy to leave either, she just made things seems so bad he left.

 

[angelsadvocate666]

Yes. The great crime of...

Being fooled by the Master.

Truly an unforgiveable evil. Nevermind that pretty much the entire thread bought that same lie hook line and sinker.

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…Bro, as we literally just said, we didn't buy it. And being fooled or not, you are massively downplaying that she tried to murder us.

Like, I'm sorry, but if some motherfucker starts shooting at me with a bazooka, I'm not particularly going to care why they're doing it. I'm just going to start shooting back.

I'm still surprised people believed Copper would do 2 EiB in two consecutive turns but the second was the supercharged one when the smart thing to do would be to summon Neighnia and have her do the first, if that didn't work finding another way to kill Velvet or trying again the next month would be fine... but she obviously choose to kill Velvet by herself when she knew a Name who could do the job so much better because she hates Velvet that much.

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Timing does matter. A Name is obviously better at the job, but from what I recall we were pretty sure she couldn't have had Neighnia yet, and Velvet is sitting on a lot of dangerous information. It was perfectly plausible that if she wanted Velvet dead, then she wouldn't think she had the time to wait.

And, putting aside that a Name isn't necessary to successfully kill someone, by all indications she was the secret rival and a lot of people were pretty sure that, yeah, she could the Velvet that much.

A 'funny' addition to the our current spat with Copper. That the occult wars of the new era are mirrored by that of the old. One might even call it a cross-generational bonding activity.

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Well, we nuked the Woods and fully explored the Blank Plains IIRC. I suppose it's possible that they're somewhere on the Shattered Stairs.

 

[Greymere]

Windy was literally the Winter pony of the cult, he is creepy, hearing the Wolf, used Comet to kill with a smile on his face and was in a nihilist spiral for most of his life... That sounds like a pony who would kill their old criminal coworkers after leaving the cult because he was too scared just to get rid of some evidence connecting him to the situation.

Click to shrink...

He also had burned down the Wildhoof club, collapsed the ritual chambers, and fled town. He didn't... exactly seem to have access to the ability to cast EiB even if he wanted to. He might by now, though.

Copper already knew Velvet was getting close to the Alicorns for the Cult, her bailing to become Comissioner is not necessarily a "she told on us" moment it could also be a "she left us to play secret police" one. Velvet didn't directly tell Windy to leave either, she just made things seems so bad he bailed.

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Did she? As far as I remember, the most Copper and the other Inner Circle advisors knew about Velvet's relationship with the alicorns is that we met Cadance in passing, and that was about it.

 

[spiderhellian]

You have come to realize that there is a circle, of sorts, present in the lives of all ponies. Your desires beget your cutie marks, and then your cutie marks bring forth your desires. For the longest time you have tried to understand which came first, but now you understand that the answer is "neither". The two things are one and the same. The two things are a commemoration of Birth.

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I looking at the Character Sheet and this line caught my attention. It seems to me as echoing some of the ideas I've seen @Pittauro and others talk about — that the Forge/SiS "birthed" Harmony in some way. Because here, I can see "cutie marks" as an analogy for Harmony, and "desires" as an analogy for the Forge/SiS's desire.

It's that last line especially that really stands out: "The two things are a commemoration of Birth."

What?

It doesn't make any sense if it's referring to lower case-b birth. But it does make sense if it's referring to the upper case-B Birth of Harmony.

It does seem to really point to the Forge's (consummated?) desire being tied to the Birth of Harmony.

 

[DelightedOne]

He also had burned down the Wildhoof club, collapsed the ritual chambers, and fled town. He didn't... exactly seem to have access to the ability to cast EiB even if he wanted to. He might by now, though.

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There are two things that come to mind when I think about rituals: bits and circles.

Windy had the Bits for sure so he would just need a 2 circle spot, we know Jade's house is big enough to draw one so he could have rented someplace or found a new house and just did it there, he had two turns to prepare and we know other characters have bigger action pools due to having less stuff to do than us(our job).

 

[Greymere]

So if we successfully summon Biedde, what do we actually want to do? Channeling an Edge Influence for +2 Edge Scraps + Comet confrontation + Ruined Church has come up before obviously, but is there anything else we might want to send him out to do?

 

[angelsadvocate666]

So if we successfully summon Biedde, what do we actually want to do? Channeling an Edge Influence for +2 Edge Scraps + Comet confrontation + Ruined Church has come up before obviously, but is there anything else we might want to send him out to do?

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Either extra guard just to be absolutely sure that if Copper tries to attack physically we're fine, or send him on a scouting trip to Manehatten so that we're not relying on a Name hit squad to go from zero to one hundred next turn.

Well, assuming people actually support that plan anyways. We could also try throwing him at the Outsider hunt, but that's probably not his specialty. Maybe searching for that quick expedition close to home might be smarter.

 

[Iustus Vitea]

I wanna have him scout out Copper and co

 

[DelightedOne]

or send him on a scouting trip to Manehatten so that we're not relying on a Name hit squad to go from zero to one hundred next turn.

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To be fair, if we put all of our Names in that action we would have a hit squad capable of wiping out a whole cult for sure.

 

[spiderhellian]

So if we successfully summon Biedde, what do we actually want to do? Channeling an Edge Influence for +2 Edge Scraps + Comet confrontation + Ruined Church has come up before obviously, but is there anything else we might want to send him out to do?

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I think influence depends a little on what his Sacrament requires?

Honestly though, if we're sending him to mess with Copper... should we just send him to try to kill her?

 

[angelsadvocate666]

To be fair, if we put all of our Names in that action we would have a hit squad capable of wiping out a whole cult for sure.

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Probably. But the question is, do you really want to spend a full four Name actions on it?

Consider for a moment what actions we could use them each for. Baldomare could help the Outsider hunt and Sacrament with an Influence, or just going on the hunt herself. A bunch of people wanted to get Heart stuff from Marinette, and unless we can find another Heart scrap somewhere we need two actions from her minimum to get All 4 and finish Selene's education, as well as our family's. Unless you want to put that off a turn, she's pretty much locked in for the next two turns. And DoA doesn't have much else to do… until we need another Wrong Key, anyways.

I think influence depends a little on what his Sacrament requires?

Honestly though, if we're sending him to mess with Copper... should we just send him to try to kill her?

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I mean, do you think he can find her, get through her defenses, and then kill her all in one turn?

Genuine question. Dude's an assassin so it's possible, but I'm curious if that's your actual assessment.

 

[spiderhellian]

I mean, do you think he can find her, get through her defenses, and then kill her all in one turn?

Genuine question. Dude's an assassin so it's possible, but I'm curious if that's your actual assessment.

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Fair question! He does seem a skilled assassin, with that "small knife and blowpipe, used to lethal effect".

But looking at the Crepuscule Jailbreak, something like a DC 80 "Warded Door" obstacle would be non-trivial (probably only rolling with +30 general bonus?). And I could believe with Neighnia around, it'll be harder.

Might depend a little on what his specific bonus is for. But you're right it's probably a little cocky (or at least expensive, in terms of bits while staying).