Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

[Greymere]

Counter question: WHAT would you do differently, if we got the intel?

Are you worried about combat? Bring Biedde. Everything else can be deal with by basically just Axe and Velvet. (highest general bonus and the all-4 rerolls and +20)

It makes sense to scry only if we actually expect it would change our preparations, but at that point it might just be cheaper to... well... bring an extra Name.

I can't imagine an expedition where Axe + Velvet + Biedde can't win.

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I'm not really worried about combat, actually. Biedde only has one Influence to give, and Edge 4 Velvet (w/o Frightened + Scarred) + 40 Edge Influence and Edge 3 DoA (w/ on-command +20 Influence) is a pretty hefty amount of Edge to bring to a fight.

To come from an angle that perhaps you would care about more: if we're going in blind, we have to assume that any Lore could be used. Which makes the mathematically optimal Influence to ask from Mareinette the Grail Influence, not the Heart Influence, as I suspect you would prefer due to +2 Heart scraps.

(Edit: Also if we're bringing a plus one, it's got to be Selene. She's got a wider Lore spread, which is important for actually clearing the expedition and she can fight! And also have conversations without her general bonus dropping to +10.)

 

[Solace2117]

I want to heal Velvet's scar as soon as we can for a few reasons. One it gets us another point of health, which considering all the potential dangers ahead is vital. Two it gives us more insight into her past and lets her come to terms with her issues. Lastly I'm interested if this could change her personal moth and grail sacraments. We know her personal sacraments are based on her personal interpretations which makes me think if anything could change them that would be it. I don't know that it will, but I'm interested in seeing what happens. At the same time though I'm not willing to commit to anything fully until we see what else happens this turn and how the next starts out.

Buuuut... If anyone is looking for an unconventional Victory Harmony is right there, only costs 1 Jade action to progress in it next turn(and it also lets her develop rituals again, it is a bonus) and is probably the second Victory we are best prepared to reach since:

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Actually there's another "Victory" we're halfway towards that's much easier.

I doubt we are as close to the Harmony ending as you seem to think, though as with the Tower, I have no problem taking some actions down that path. I remain unconvinced that the Harmony ending is as "good" as you think it is.

 

[DelightedOne]

Actually there's another "Victory" we're halfway towards that's much easier.

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We don't talk about the Mother of Wolves.

I doubt we are as close to the Harmony ending as you seem to think, though as with the Tower, I have no problem taking some actions down that path. I remain unconvinced that the Harmony ending is as "good" as you think it is.

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My logic is less "close" and more "we literally set up the perfect stage for it".

Why not? That feels like the closest to Canon MLP for me.

 

[Venerable Ro]

My logic is less "close" and more "we literally set up the perfect stage for it".

Why not? That feels like the closest to Canon MLP for me.

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If we keep to MLP canon we're going to have to fight Sombra in the "near" future as Cadance and Shining's closest friend. That would admittedly be fun under the right circumstances, the hypothetical opportunity to blatantly flex our eldritch muscles and bring down a host of Names and summons on his creepy head.

 

[DelightedOne]

If we keep to MLP canon we're going to have to fight Sombra in the "near" future as Cadance and Shining's closest friend. That would admittedly be fun under the right circumstances, the hypothetical opportunity to blatantly flex our eldritch muscles and bring down a host of Names and summons on his creepy head.

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Oh, there is also the Crystal Heart. I am so anxious to see if Velvet can grab it to Study.

That is actually another reason why I want to get to Cadance lessons so fast, if we get her to All-3(or better yet, 4) she might be able to hold on against Sombra for longer or find the Crystal Heart by herself.

 

[Greymere]

Oh, there is also the Crystal Heart. I am so anxious to see if Velvet can grab it to Study.

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Heart 7 artifact when?

 

[Solace2117]

My logic is less "close" and more "we literally set up the perfect stage for it".

Why not? That feels like the closest to Canon MLP for me.

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Because this is a horror quest and a fusion of two settings. You at times talk of Harmony and MLP as if they are separate from the setting of Cultist Simulator. Bird has done a great job integrating the two settings. You've said you doubted the Master's solution, it may not be the only one on that path, but I doubt Harmony is going to be able to just overpower the worms. I doubt any of the endings are fully static though other than the Wolf.

 

[DelightedOne]

Because this is a horror quest and a fusion of two settings. You at times talk of Harmony and MLP as if they are separate from the setting of Cultist Simulator. Bird has done a great job integrating the two settings. You've said you doubted the Master's solution, it may not be the only one on that path, but I doubt Harmony is going to be able to just overpower the worms. I doubt any of the endings are fully static though other than the Wolf.

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This quest being a fusion of two settings is exactly why I talk about Harmony that way, because we only really had full contact with the Cultist Simulator side of things, the MLP side is so mundane since the Lores were forgotten and Harmony only started being active again recently(instead of passive) that I can barely talk about it without mentioning Harmony in some way. There is also that tiny part where I'm trying to make people go for the Harmony victory, so if you see me focus too much on it that's why.

Harmony is just starting to really come into itself, it had a lot of effects on the world but it still hasn't reached its full potential. The Dreamlands trying and more surprisingly looking like they can take over the Mansus shows that Harmony has a lot of potential, it could even become an Hour or Hour-equivalent if things go right.

That makes me think that yes, if Harmony can't hide or kill all Worms it can at the very least make wards(the Crystal Heart is proof of this, even). It was even implied that it already did something like this and if we help it that might be a real possibility or whatever we need to do for the Harmony Victory, the Worms will be taken care of anyway.

 

[Iustus Vitea]

The tower is only the first part of the HotM quest chain, we would likely need to find the Key of David to actually gain access to it after completing the climb.

As for Harmony if I understand things correctly then Memory of Light is to merely get info on Harmony, like what and where it is. Full contact comes later.

 

[Venerable Ro]

This quest being a fusion of two settings is exactly why I talk about Harmony that way, because we only really had full contact with the Cultist Simulator side of things, the MLP side is so mundane since the Lores were forgotten and Harmony only started being active again recently(instead of passive) that I can barely talk about it without mentioning Harmony in some way. There is also that tiny part where I'm trying to make people go for the Harmony victory, so if you see me focus too much on it that's why.

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Sadly we cut Harmony off at the knees by ruining its chosen of chosen ones and then further separating two of the remaining five Bearers from the other three. Fluttershy has quite the distraction to occupy her in Comet, and Rarity is busy making it big well ahead of schedule.

In hindsight I'm honestly surprised we haven't had the other Bearers looking in on our relationship with our confidantes, I suppose we stuck the wedge in so early that we preempted any real emotional closeness.

 

[Greymere]

Sadly we cut Harmony off at the knees by ruining its chosen of chosen ones and then further separating two of the remaining five Bearers from the other three. Fluttershy has quite the distraction to occupy her in Comet, and Rarity is busy making it big well ahead of schedule.

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We could go ahead and make it three out of five! Applejack is already on our contacts list as a Friend and we don't have a Forge Confidant yet

 

[DelightedOne]

Sadly we cut Harmony off at the knees by ruining its chosen of chosen ones and then further separating two of the remaining five Bearers from the other three. Fluttershy has quite the distraction to occupy her in Comet, and Rarity is busy making it big well ahead of schedule.

In hindsight I'm honestly surprised we haven't had the other Bearers looking in on our relationship with our confidantes, I suppose we stuck the wedge in so early that we preempted any real emotional closeness.

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Be patient please, healing takes time when you're not using the laws of reality to speed it up.

Fluttershy and Rarity aren't confined to Velvet's home so they must still be in contact with the other Elements(they were friends for years before the start of the show) and they had their own lives before, I doubt a boost in career and a boyfriend are enough to make them cut off contact completely.

We gave Harmony a "win" with the Wedding according to Bird, so I'm not too worried.

We could go ahead and make it three out of five! Applejack is already on our contacts list as a Friend and we don't have a Forge Confidant yet

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Yes, please.

 

[Solace2117]

This quest being a fusion of two settings is exactly why I talk about Harmony that way, because we only really had full contact with the Cultist Simulator side of things, the MLP side is so mundane since the Lores were forgotten and Harmony only started being active again recently(instead of passive) that I can barely talk about it without mentioning Harmony in some way. There is also that tiny part where I'm trying to make people go for the Harmony victory, so if you see me focus too much on it that's why.

Harmony is just starting to really come into itself, it had a lot of effects on the world but it still hasn't reached its full potential. The Dreamlands trying and more surprisingly looking like they can take over the Mansus shows that Harmony has a lot of potential, it could even become an Hour or Hour-equivalent if things go right.

That makes me think that yes, if Harmony can't hide or kill all Worms it can at the very least make wards(the Crystal Heart is proof of this, even). It was even implied that it already did something like this and if we help it that might be a real possibility or whatever we need to do for the Harmony Victory, the Worms will be taken care of anyway.

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I understand where you are coming from, but I doubt it's that simple. As others have brought up, Harmony feels more like an imitation of Glory.
Ultimately though it feels like you think Harmony is inherently a more "good" option than Glory. We know what the victory conditions are, but we don't know what that means as far as endings. We know things can change the nature of the endings considering the Master could have tainted them if we agreed to their terms. I think it's much more likely that the Harmony route involves some sort of sacrifice where it is less then what it was.
On the other hand I think you underrate the Glory path. I believe at one point you mentioned you viewed Glory as a reestablishment of what was before, but that feels like the Moon ending. I think Glory has more variance, but say an ending where Velvet reaches Glory supported by Harmony could be much closer to what you want.

 

[Venerable Ro]

I understand where you are coming from, but I doubt it's that simple. As others have brought up, Harmony feels more like an imitation of Glory.
Ultimately though it feels like you think Harmony is inherently a more "good" option than Glory. We know what the victory conditions are, but we don't know what that means as far as endings. We know things can change the nature of the endings considering the Master could have tainted them if we agreed to their terms. I think it's much more likely that the Harmony route involves some sort of sacrifice where it is less then what it was.

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I think one possibility, possibility mind you, is that we could assist Harmony in taking The Glory's place similar to how The Mother Of Ants assisted The Colonel in overthrowing The Seven-Coiled. We need to finish figuring out that Memory Of Light to be sure.

What we really need to be cognizant of is how streamlined the path to Glory has actually become, partly through our own efforts. The Tribal door is gone, The Cathedral has been opened, and Proud Vak has long since been murdered. Once an adept masters the Branded Gate it's only a collection of Lore-based navigation checks to march clear to the final Crucible-Lock. Granted that final Lock is an overwhelming obstacle, but we have no assurances whatsoever that the Canterlot lead is the only Outsider in existence. Somepony might just get lucky.

 

[Solace2117]

I think one possibility, possibility mind you, is that we could assist Harmony in taking The Glory's place similar to how The Mother Of Ants assisted The Colonel in overthrowing The Seven-Coiled. We need to finish figuring out that Memory Of Light to be sure.

What we really need to be cognizant of is how streamlined the path to Glory has actually become, partly through our own efforts. The Tribal door is gone, The Cathedral has been opened, and Proud Vak has long since been murdered. Once an adept masters the Branded Gate it's only a collection of Lore-based navigation checks to march clear to the final Crucible-Lock. Granted that final Lock is an overwhelming obstacle, but we have no assurances whatsoever that the Canterlot lead is the only Outsider in existence. Somepony might just get lucky

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Possibly, but I think it's more likely the Forge of Days would have done so already assuming she created it, which seems likely. Besides someone else reaching Glory first is a risk with any ending we pursue. It's actually better incentive to pursue Glory since we're farther along. Yes, she cleared a path, but it's still not easy to reach. If ultimately Velvet is able to become an Hour it's likely she restores the Manse in some form.

 

[DelightedOne]

I understand where you are coming from, but I doubt it's that simple. As others have brought up, Harmony feels more like an imitation of Glory.
Ultimately though it feels like you think Harmony is inherently a more "good" option than Glory. We know what the victory conditions are, but we don't know what that means as far as endings. We know things can change the nature of the endings considering the Master could have tainted them if we agreed to their terms. I think it's much more likely that the Harmony route involves some sort of sacrifice where it is less then what it was.
On the other hand I think you underrate the Glory path. I believe at one point you mentioned you viewed Glory as a reestablishment of what was before, but that feels like the Moon ending. I think Glory has more variance, but say an ending where Velvet reaches Glory supported by Harmony could be much closer to what you want.

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Well, I admit I'm being fairly optimistic about all of the Harmony Path, but I can't help it.

While looking at it in the right angle Harmony certainly looks like an imitation of Glory, but I see it as a sucessor of the Hours instead of a new Glory, kinda like a New Sun(if we go with the "Harmony is the work of the Lores" theory) or a work of magic/ponies(if we use the "classic" interpretation).

Yeah, Celestia and Selene have a good chance of just... being that sacrifice if it happens, but it also could be temporary, like Tikki and Plagg fusing to form Gimmi(just watched the London special, don't judge me).
Many people thought we would lose Selene in The Rite of the Mother and the Father(I chose to believe Harmony would not be so cruel) and we didn't, she is Selene and Luna, nothing was lost only restored.
I'm still shocked that did not get any attention on the Harmony Path, I thought that would be a sign that we could get something "good", change the World for the better and get Velvet to make up for her mistakes... but Glory speaks louder, as always.

The reestablishment I mentioned is that of the system of the Hours, that corrupt, cruel and sometimes plain crazy thing that made the World a much less pleasant place to live in(and it was a Lantern Name that said that).

Finally as something I had in my mind for a while why people talk about the CS side so much and think that the World only works with the rules from that side when we have seen several times the MLP side has just about equal metaphysical weight? The greatest forces of CS, the Hours, have been inactive for an Era and Harmony just started to take action to fulfil its plans, that seems pretty even for me.

 

[Quaxotia]

Granted that final Lock is an overwhelming obstacle, but we have no assurances whatsoever that the Canterlot lead is the only Outsider in existence. Somepony might just get lucky.

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Finding an Outsider is one thing, but would that same luck let them kill one? I can't imagine any random cultist standing a chance at this point. The Master is gone, and between the remnants I don't think anyone has even achieved an edge sacrament yet.

 

[Pittauro]

I'm not really worried about combat, actually. Biedde only has one Influence to give, and Edge 4 Velvet (w/o Frightened + Scarred) + 40 Edge Influence and Edge 3 DoA (w/ on-command +20 Influence) is a pretty hefty amount of Edge to bring to a fight.

To come from an angle that perhaps you would care about more: if we're going in blind, we have to assume that any Lore could be used. Which makes the mathematically optimal Influence to ask from Mareinette the Grail Influence, not the Heart Influence, as I suspect you would prefer due to +2 Heart scraps.

(Edit: Also if we're bringing a plus one, it's got to be Selene. She's got a wider Lore spread, which is important for actually clearing the expedition and she can fight! And also have conversations without her general bonus dropping to +10.)

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Selene would admittedly help keeping up the general bonus for grail challenges, though her lore spread is still a "measly" all-3. If we could bring her to all 4 first, giving us extra rerolls, THAT would change things...

If we keep to MLP canon we're going to have to fight Sombra in the "near" future as Cadance and Shining's closest friend. That would admittedly be fun under the right circumstances, the hypothetical opportunity to blatantly flex our eldritch muscles and bring down a host of Names and summons on his creepy head.

Click to shrink...

Or, hear me our, we send an overpowered EiB against Sombra and kill him that way!

...or, even better, we send a Biedde at him!

Because this is a horror quest and a fusion of two settings. You at times talk of Harmony and MLP as if they are separate from the setting of Cultist Simulator. Bird has done a great job integrating the two settings. You've said you doubted the Master's solution, it may not be the only one on that path, but I doubt Harmony is going to be able to just overpower the worms. I doubt any of the endings are fully static though other than the Wolf.

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Keep in mind Harmony has been literally the ONLY thing shown to actually kill worms and leave no trace of them behind (Luna in dreamrealm with the weaker ones, elements against Nightmare Moon). Even dead worms are usually dangerous if I remember right...

Finding an Outsider is one thing, but would that same luck let them kill one? I can't imagine any random cultist standing a chance at this point. The Master is gone, and between the remnants I don't think anyone has even achieved an edge sacrament yet.

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They might not even realize Outsiders are the "key", so to speak. It's not exactly obvious.

 

[Venerable Ro]

Finally as something I had in my mind for a while why people talk about the CS side so much and think that the World only works with the rules from that side when we have seen several times the MLP side has just about equal metaphysical weight? The greatest forces of CS, the Hours, have been inactive for an Era and Harmony just started to take action to fulfil its plans, that seems pretty even for me.

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Well people tend to focus on the tools they can wield, and Velvet is very much an adept of the Lores. Cadance may be able to touch Harmony, Twilight probably could have if not for, well, if not for us...

So I think people tend to discount the influence Harmony can have because it's not a direct statistical influence like [Harmony's Grace: As a favored agent of Harmony you are a beacon of friendship in a cynical world, gain an escalating bonus (+10, +20, +30...) to rolls directly related to developing social bonds depending on how close you already are to the other pony] for a hypothetical example

If people saw things like that they'd give it more weight, but as-is it's pretty much all narrative influences which is often an uphill battle to get traction on.

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

Okay guys, I know how we can wipe out all the Worms forever. Harmony is a big old kill laser against them but it lacks the oomph to passively fry the bigger ones. Glory is biggest ball of energy I know of. We just need some really, reeeeeeally good power cables and that problem will be solved.

 

[Greymere]

I'm still shocked that did not get any attention on the Harmony Path, I thought that would be a sign that we could get something "good", change the World for the better and get Velvet to make up for her mistakes... but Glory speaks louder, as always.

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Yeah it sure is a mystery why people are more interested in the Glory ending right now. It's not like it's the only ending we both actually know the requirements for and are comparatively close to achieving or anything.

 

[Solace2117]

of the Hours, that corrupt, cruel and sometimes plain crazy thing that made the World a much less pleasant place to live in(and it was a Lantern Name that said that).

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Thing is though, that feels more like the Moon path. If it's Velvet reaching it, if she ascends, nothing says the Alicorns can't follow after.

 

[Venerable Ro]

Thing is though, that feels more like the Moon path. If it's Velvet reaching it, if she ascends, nothing says the Alicorns can't follow after.

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If the Thunderskin can enter through the Tricuspid Gate then so can Luna.