Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

[Pittauro]

That's.... very fair on each of those.
Pardon. Probably was a bit reaching with most of it. Trying to guess at things forward, so it's more than likely wrong.

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We all have our guesses. For example I'm guessing Harmony is either the child of Forge and Sun, or a creation of theirs, or a fragment of Glory (or all of them together).

Just keep in mind that we don't know what we don't know. We have limited information AND can be wrong.

I just know that it's been mentioned time and again that people tried to kill her before. And that was in a time where the Manus was... there? In charge? The Lores were more active then. People knew of them, and used them. It...
It seems more likely than not that back then, people tried to kill her, likely including with summons, and likely even Names.
If it was as easy as having a name, a summon, and a few useful tools killing her, wouldn't it have happened before?

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To be fair at the times she'd also have had allies. Like the other Ligeians, or other Longs and Names and maybe even Hours who DIDN'T want her dead for whatever reason.

I definitely believe she CAN be killed, but as the ONLY Name that's fully in the Wake, AND a Ligeian Alukite, AND a Name of Heart, I expect her to be one of the most difficult beings to kill in all the quest. Possibly the most difficult we've met thus far.

She's an Alukite, a Mansus being that partook in the Crime of the Sky and thus was outlawed. But once you are an outlaw, you get to start ignoring laws, and when those are the laws of the world, that is a very potent thing indeed. She does not predate the Mansus.

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To be more precise, as far as we know NOTHING is older than the Mansus (and Glory), as the implication is that basically ages comes and ages go, Gods are born and die and sometimes come back from death itself... but the Mansus is eternal.

Something older than the Mansus would have to be by definition older than the world.

Then again, of course, none currently alive is old enough to know for sure. Maybe the gods from Stone knew more, or maybe they also replaced an older set of gods and are as ignorant as we are about the true origins of Mansus and Glory.

Mm. The thing about Marinette surviving through the Mansus era and a bunch of other people trying to kill her is that, well… she wasn't alone.

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Exactly! Even "Abominations" would have allies and "friends". Especially Mareinette as a Name of Grail.

I mean, even in CS itself she helps the MC to ascend to Namehood, doesn't she? Seen from her point of view, isn't that basically getting a new ally?

2 - If Biedde tries to fight Mareinette, Biedde will probably wins...
If Mareinette tries to fight back.
Narratively, she could try to talk to him. She is pretty good at that, and given how Names are independent characters, it is possible she could strike a deal with him for him. You guys don't know what makes Biedde tick yet, and for all that "he wouldn't commit a betrayal" is a valid argument, there is also the point that "Biedde isn't your slave, he is looking out for someone else." Never forget the dangers of incomplete information.
Because remember, regular summons are fully under your control, and wouldn't fall for that. But you guys are planning to use one Biedde to kill Mareinette, not five Windigos. And Biedde has that nifty "Unique" trait that gives him some liberties.
But ultimately, the answer is much simpler than that.
No, really.
Every "combat turn" a character has a chance to act, remember? Every combat turn both sides fight twice, then they get a window to do something.
Mareinette would, uh, simply try to escape. And she might have enough health to "tank" the hits Biedde would land until she finally gets a lucky roll and skeddadles.

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Yeah, that's what I was thinking.

Why would she stay and fight? She's a Name of Heart and Grail, the obvious options are either "talk your way out of it" or "tank until you can escape".

Plus any other option unlocked by her secret traits, of course.

Which is why if we REALLY wanted to kill Mareinette, we'd need something truly impressive to stop her from escaping. Something like having Biedde, Celestia, Axe, Selene and Comet all involved for example. Or get artifacts that can help somehow, like some kind of anti-escape artifact (kind of the inverse of our meteor dust that instead helps us escape)

How interested are you guys in a Pride interlude, to follow up on his [Grail]! request towards Axe?

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well, I'll in the end be satisfied with anything, but I'm kinda more interested in seeing the rest of the talk with Comet, AND Axe's expedition, AND the result of the scrying for Frangiclave, and Ruined Church....

lots of interesting stuff to see.

 

[DelightedOne]

Really, that's the main issue. Keeping her pinned long enough that she actually fucking dies, and with her health pool that's a long fucking time. Which is why we should jump her with one Biedde, and several other people besides.

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Ideally DoA, Biedde, Selene, Cadance, Comet Feet, Celestia and Velvet so high in Influences people think she is a spirit again.

How interested are you guys in a Pride interlude, to follow up on his [Grail]! request towards Axe?

I already have the turn planned, sure. And the next order of business should be Axe's expedition or the likes. But every now and then these "intermissions" become possible, and I'm not sure if I should get on with the turn, or write this little extra to you guys. Any feedback on that?

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I don't care much about Pride tbh, hard to want the racist rich unicorn who is obsessed with a random girl because she is "different" to have more screen time.

So the rest of the turn is better for me.

 

[Rafuki22]

How interested are you guys in a Pride interlude, to follow up on his [Grail]! request towards Axe?

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If you want to write it must be for a reason, even if the only reason is that you would like to write it, so yes, although i would be fine without it if the others don't want to read it.

 

[Sveta08]

How interested are you guys in a Pride interlude, to follow up on his [Grail]! request towards Axe?

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Personally? I'd like to see it. Getting to flesh out some of the cast in ways we normally don't get to see is always nice.

 

[Cochimetl]

To be honest, I'm no longer certain that Marinette actually is the youngest Ligean. I know she's not the eldest (because Medusa is older), I know she became a Ligean during or after the Lithomachy, but I don't know enough about the other five to judge whether they've been around longer.
The book I thought mentioned it just says she's young, not explicitly that she's the youngest.

How interested are you guys in a Pride interlude, to follow up on his [Grail]! request towards Axe?

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I'm for it.
The Pride Romance Target reveal was comedy gold, and Mareinette with her opera glasses just slid right into that.
Maybe it's unfair to Pride, but I'm starting to associate him with my sides hurting from laughing.

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

Some responses, completely out of order:


To become an Alukite is a birth through a feast. I don't think we can assume that the Second Birth is from surviving changes to the Mansus rather than simply a result of her Crimes.



This fits the story-as-written, but this likely isn't as literally true as you're representing it, considering Mareinette isn't a Name of Moth.

Most likely this is only true in the sense that Jade meant it; to know something horrifying is to live in a world where that horrifying thing exists.



She's also the only summon we have that isn't even as loyal to us as the bindings require (since she can get rid of them if she desires).
Nor would she have a sense of "duty/professionalism" as Baldomare (being a generally nice Name) or Biedde (being of the Colonel) would have.

There's no reason to assume she doesn't see the world as warped, just because she never told us so.


I don't see the grounding for this claim.

Aside from her unusual method of speech, which can be explained by her blood-and-Lore-consuming-Grail-Name nature, there's no reason to believe being an Alukite has given her any unusual understandings which some other name would lack (beyond the "pleasure" of children, that is).


She was far from the only one. It's not unusual, for those who violate the order of the world to be called Monsters in the CulSim setting, Alukites in particular.

The term doesn't provide us any information we didn't already have.


Which brings us to the core claim.

It's fairly plausible that Mareinette has some traits specific to health or resisting harm, especially given she's hiding our health from us and the Second Birth explicitly uses Health as a resource pool. So I'm willing to believe that Biedde would have some degree of difficulty in harming her.

On the other hand, Biedde is a Name of Inevitable order, given what we've seen of him so far. On top of that, Names of different Lores are all generally equal in power, as the Hours were, and Biedde is a Name of combat specifically; given those two facts, he is likely far better with violence than other Names, who would instead be specialized in other fields (like Mareinette and her disguise/betrayal/cannibalism schtick).

Mareinette may be good at keeping it from being a straight fight; bringing in hostages, convincing Biedde's allies to turn on him, escaping before he's assigned to hunt her, etc.
But in a straight fight, I think it's pretty clear that the Name of Edge will emerge the victor.

EDIT:

Do you, though?

An outlaw still lives within the law; they may be willing to break it, and deal with the consequences, but those consequences exist for each law that is broken. You don't suddenly get the power to pretend the law doesn't exist just because it doesn't like you anymore.

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In the case of Alukites like Marinette it does let you ignore the rules regarding the holding of certain keys, and some of the ways regulating passage into and out of the Mansus, and stuff like that. It also generally makes you a bit stronger for some reason, becoming an Alukite. You are correct that it's not all-powerful, but it does grant a measure of power.

 

[Shaper47]

Barring exceptional circumstances, Edge is the only Lore I will use for combat.

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Every "combat turn" a character has a chance to act, remember?

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What about secret techniques for the character action?

I remember you mentioning that they were possible to get early in the quest.

So things like a speaking a wolf-word during combat for example.

How interested are you guys in a Pride interlude, to follow up on his [Grail]! request towards Axe?

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Not as much as I'd be interested in other interludes.

 

[Jame]

I'm interested in the interlude

 

[Solace2117]

The second reason is because Edge is meant to be the Lore of combat. Even on the background setting of this quest, Edge IS meant to be the "end all be all" of murder.

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Makes sense, but wouldn't something like assassination play somewhat into Moth.

As to the interlude, I like Axe and I don't mind Pride so sure. I like the expansions on the world as a whole. I'm really interested in the results of the rest of the turn, but write what you want.

 

[Limabot]

For my take on the Interlude, while I would like to see it at some point before the turn's end, I would like to see a few other things first (like how Comet takes the Compromise).

 

[angelsadvocate666]

Makes sense, but wouldn't something like assassination play somewhat into Moth.

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Eh, I believe you can get an Ambush modifier—+20 IIRC?—But that's it and only for one round. And it's not so much Moth giving a bonus to the combat round as a Moth check happening to earn a relevant modifier.

Also, as you'll notice, Biedde didn't even get that, despite coming out of basically nowhere, presumably because Comet had a similar "can't be ambushed" ability from his Edge Realization as Velvet does.

 

[Venerable Ro]

That's all I had to say. I'm debating what the next update might be because...

Ehh, I'll just ask.

How interested are you guys in a Pride interlude, to follow up on his [Grail]! request towards Axe?

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I'd be up for it, character insight is always valuable, to say nothing of keeping the QM invested in his characters.

 

[Earth-Destroyer]

Meh I would rather not read about the stupidity of Pride. interludes have their place but this turn will already take many months to get thou, not a good idea to slow it down even more.

 

[Maer]

… How interested are you guys in a Pride interlude, to follow up on his [Grail]! request towards Axe? …

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I don't know if it's rude to reply like this but MASSIVELY interested on my part. ESPECIALLY with the way you write things.

 

[AuthorTransient]

(Sorry for how jumbled the post ended up being. I don't like walls of text, but don't have the time to edit this to be readable.)

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All good.

How interested are you guys in a Pride interlude, to follow up on his [Grail]! request towards Axe?

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Update is update!

1 - Barring exceptional circumstances, Edge is the only Lore I will use for combat.

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Sorry, didn't realize how my apocrypha might affect the view on the Lores. Thank you for the time and effort and acuity about posting this clarification, and as far as I'm concerned, these are reasonable.
(Phew, Mareinette can't add Grail bonus to her combat.)

2 - If Biedde tries to fight Mareinette, Biedde will probably wins...
If Mareinette tries to fight back.

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This is something I already believed to be true, but having it confirmed is... concerning for the end of the Turn. We don't have to actively seek Mareinette out to learn what her binding request is, right? Right??
O.O may have made the mistake of giving the horror QM ideas.

For this one must apply the ineffable technique that is "entice the author with a compelling story". It's not enough to ask if it's possible, you've got to suggest an alternative that's entertaining enough for the QM to change his plans.

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I can confirm this has already happened at least twice.

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As soon as you step hoof out of the train, you are greeted by familiar company. Subtle Glare, your butler since you were a colt, is already waiting for you there, together with several other servants who have already collected your luggage. Cantrip steps out of the train right after you, and quietly makes her way to the butler, patiently waiting just one step behind the older stallion.

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"Are you alright, Lord?" the familiar voice of Cantrip, your faithful maid, comes to you.

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Alas, you can tell that Cantrip is trying to be kind to you. But she simply does not understand what you are going through.

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"That is actually quite cute," Cantrip says, absent-mindedly, "I wonder how she managed that. Didn't you say Lady Axe was, well, more on the unapproachable side?"

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You say that, and you immediately make your way downstairs, with Cantrip in tow.

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Subtle Glare?! Subtle?! SUBTLE WHERE DID YOU GO???!?

THE SUBTLE KISS: Mareinette may hide attacks as completely harmless kisses, pats, smiles, or intimate glances, though they still require combat rolls. Targets may make an intrigue check to realize that damage was done after each successful attack. This compounds with OUR LADY OF WIRES.

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UNQUENCHABLE THIRST: For every turn in the Wake, Mareinette will seek out a Grail sacrifice and consume it.

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ALL-CONSUMING NAME: When Mareinette consumes a living being, their existence disappears from memories. Characters may figure out something is wrong (strange clothes that they would never wear, an empty room with paraphernalia) but it is more likely that they would simply fill in any discpreancies by themselves.

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OH NOOOOOOO -

(/jk... unless?)

 

[spiderhellian]

We don't have to actively seek Mareinette out to learn what her binding request is, right? Right?

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I wouldn't panic about this, no. We'll be given a choice, and for the first binding at least the choice should be easy (it's probably letting her into our Name hotel.)

 

[Naqu2o]

The youngest of the Ligeian should probably be less than 400 years old. The oldest is old, however the younger members don't have that kind of lineage except for having the backing of Ligeian club

 

[Nevermort]

Really, that's the main issue. Keeping her pinned long enough that she actually fucking dies, and with her health pool that's a long fucking time. Which is why we should jump her with one Biedde, and several other people besides.

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I say that Velvet should keep to her strength and try to fillyfy Mareinette first.
Either she eats herself or ends up adopted and reeducated. Therapy by exposure and all that. She even have skill conveniently called Second Rebirth

Selene ability probably works as good template? Not sure if something similar was already suggested but since we don't have list of suggested rituals gathered anywhere easy available have a my version too:

The Dream of Childhood
-CD: KNOCK 60, MOTH variable
-Cost: 50 bits on materials
-Duration: Instantaneous, offensive ritual
-Effect: Target is put to sleep and its body relocated to the Dream realm, with CD to resist set to your MOTH CD. Target dreams of his/her childhood and its dream now walks in the wake. Target HP is now set to 1 Health but destroying it only wakes up main body and interrupts ritual.
-Failing this ritual yields no maluses, bar frustration
-Optimal Lore to roll to resist: MOTH

Also future Velvet's Equestria should deal with all incorrigible criminals by fillification. Give them second chance at life and all that. Luna could get on it when she gets her throne back. Misbehaving ponies should be send back to the kindergarten.

 

[jason1stlegion]

But every now and then these "intermissions" become possible, and I'm not sure if I should get on with the turn, or write this little extra to you guys. Any feedback on that?

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While in terms of quality-per-unit-word these extras are rarely as interesting as the main story, I feel like they flesh out the world in a way that then makes Velvet's perspective even better by building on top of them.

So, go for it!

 

[Cochimetl]

The youngest of the Ligeian should probably be less than 400 years old. The oldest is old, however the younger members don't have that kind of lineage except for having the backing of Ligeian club

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Someone stop me if we get too off-topic.
We've got Morgen, Mrs. E., Frau Schlüssel, Medusa, Sulochana, Rowena, and Marinette.
If Sulochana is the same one as in the indian myths, she was around when the Hooded Princes came there.
Mrs. E. was there before the Lionsmith. Medusa was there before the Seven-Coils.
Rowena had to be around in the 1500s to get mixed up in the Dewulf family.
Marinette was already a Ligean in the Dawn period, so before the 12th century.
That leaves Frau Schlüssel and Morgen.

I know little of Frau Schlüssel, and I don't remember anything that would let me pinpoint a minimum age of Morgen, but what they have in common is that their names are fake as fuck. 'Madame Key'? Really? And Morgen is just german for morning. So who knows how long they've been around.

 

[Naqu2o]

Someone stop me if we get too off-topic.
We've got Morgen, Mrs. E., Frau Schlüssel, Medusa, Sulochana, Rowena, and Marinette.
If Sulochana is the same one as in the indian myths, she was around when the Hooded Princes came there.
Mrs. E. was there before the Lionsmith. Medusa was there before the Seven-Coils.
Rowena had to be around in the 1500s to get mixed up in the Dewulf family.
Marinette was already a Ligean in the Dawn period, so before the 12th century.
That leaves Frau Schlüssel and Morgen.

I know little of Frau Schlüssel, and I don't remember anything that would let me pinpoint a minimum age of Morgen, but what they have in common is that their names are fake as fuck. 'Madame Key'? Really? And Morgen is just german for morning. So who knows how long they've been around.

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Rowena should be the youngest of the Ligeian, being born after the 1500s, as it's stated that she grew Long long after she has given birth to Giles' children with Eva Dewulf being her great granddaughter and is hunted by her among other.

And she is also dying unlike the other Ligeian being both young and dying.

There is another known Ligeian though she is probably really old and has already left the Ligeian club to serve the Forge so you can't really call her a Ligeian anymore

 

[Pittauro]

This is something I already believed to be true, but having it confirmed is... concerning for the end of the Turn. We don't have to actively seek Mareinette out to learn what her binding request is, right? Right??
O.O may have made the mistake of giving the horror QM ideas.

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oh, I'm sure Bird already has PLENTY of ideas for what his favourite Name might ask of us.

No point in worrying too much about it. We've been basically told that the first request should not be too problematic, second is a bit problematic, and third is likely where we'll give up.

Also future Velvet's Equestria should deal with all incorrigible criminals by fillification. Give them second chance at life and all that. Luna could get on it when she gets her throne back. Misbehaving ponies should be send back to the kindergarten.

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that would be (canon) Twilight's nightmare! she explicitly HATED the idea of "being sent back to magical kindergarten!"

 

[Nevermort]

that would be (canon) Twilight's nightmare! she explicitly HATED the idea of "being sent back to magical kindergarten!"

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I would argue that she is not as much hated as feared it. Which means it is effective crime behaviour deterrent. Of course only assuming that Twilight is typical representative of pony mind state.
Distinction here is that if Twilight hated it she would have protested it, or at least expressed her disapproval toward such methods at some point.

 

[Gyldir]

2 - If Biedde tries to fight Mareinette, Biedde will probably wins...
If Mareinette tries to fight back.
Narratively, she could try to talk to him. She is pretty good at that, and given how Names are independent characters, it is possible she could strike a deal with him for him. You guys don't know what makes Biedde tick yet, and for all that "he wouldn't commit a betrayal" is a valid argument, there is also the point that "Biedde isn't your slave, he is looking out for someone else." Never forget the dangers of incomplete information.
Because remember, regular summons are fully under your control, and wouldn't fall for that. But you guys are planning to use one Biedde to kill Mareinette, not five Windigos. And Biedde has that nifty "Unique" trait that gives him some liberties.
But ultimately, the answer is much simpler than that.
No, really.
Every "combat turn" a character has a chance to act, remember? Every combat turn both sides fight twice, then they get a window to do something.
Mareinette would, uh, simply try to escape. And she might have enough health to "tank" the hits Biedde would land until she finally gets a lucky roll and skeddadles.

(Sorry for how jumbled the post ended up being. I don't like walls of text, but don't have the time to edit this to be readable.)

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*Enough health to tank the hits AND the second birth damage.
Still possible.

And the most important thing:
Your point on incomplete info.

The uniques have their own lives and plans etc.
Mareinette is the only Alukite we know about. She could be the last.

She could be the last able to hold certain certain keys. Certain keys the different uniques/Mansus creatures could have a vested interest in. (Either using when the "last door is barred" situation is resolved, or knowing where they are. A status quo character could prefer a known quantity having the key rather than finding out what happens when no one is able to hold the keys. Just imagine if it is like Dragonball after the Dragonballs are used and suddenly mortals can find them (but Mansus creatures can't))

 

[Venerable Ro]

She could be the last able to hold certain certain keys. Certain keys the different uniques/Mansus creatures could have a vested interest in. (Either using when the "last door is barred" situation is resolved, or knowing where they are. A status quo character could prefer a known quantity having the key rather than finding out what happens when no one is able to hold the keys. Just imagine if it is like Dragonball after the Dragonballs are used and suddenly mortals can find them (but Mansus creatures can't))

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That's actually a really good point, she could very easily be the sole living custodian to genuinely vital information and relics that can't simply be taken by force. Imagine Velvet's hypothetical Name-ascension being vastly complicated by the death of the last being who knows how to open those particular doors.

 

[Xoden]

I wouldn't say dogmatic, if by dogmatic, you mean "excessively sticking to rigid preconceptions without a good reason". It's a question of scope and game design. Sure, Cultist Simulator lets you do that, but that's similar to arguing with your mom by saying "my friend's mom lets him do X, why won't you?" The QM chooses the rules and what the game is actually about; it's best to argue in terms of this game's mechanics and design and why it would actually be better if that were a thing. We are already pretty overpowered in terms of combat stats.

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On second thought, "dogmatic" is the wrong word I picked. "Jarring" or "off-key" is a better description.
The protagonist went from a sheltered loner farm accountant to a chief spook and royal favourite, sent dozens to their deaths and performed tons of shady deeds, acting under pressure many times. Yet all that had no measurable impact on her personality, skills or disposition. Hence the dissonance.
(And it's not a question of power, at this point the supernatural bonuses grossly outweigh the mundane stats.)

 

[Cochimetl]

Rowena should be the youngest of the Ligeian, being born after the 1500s, as it's stated that she grew Long long after she has given birth to Giles' children with Eva Dewulf being her great granddaughter and is hunted by her among other.

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Counterpoint: the description of the Rowenarium.

Once here was a brother and sister...

...So they used their arts to live long lives, close but separate, and they made a double foundation of monks and nuns...

...In time, the sister found her own immortality, and to this day she walks the world by moonlight.

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Now, it's possible this story talks about someone other than Rowena, but I find it unlikely. And that would put Rowena's birth firmly before the establishment of the Abbey of the Black Dove, at the end of the 6th century.

 

[Naqu2o]

Counterpoint: the description of the Rowenarium.

Now, it's possible this story talks about someone other than Rowena, but I find it unlikely. And that would put Rowena's birth firmly before the establishment of the Abbey of the Black Dove, at the end of the 6th century.

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I wouldn't know, the Ys event was very specific that Rowena was a catfish Ys specifically sent to seduce Dewulf men because Ys wanted a daughter who walks on land, only for Rowena to become Long afterwards, leading her insatiable need to want to devour all the descendants afterwards. Eva Dewulf being her descendants led to her being in danger. Eva did something to fake her daughter death, and led them away to be adopted to another family to escape Rowena

 

[Cochimetl]

the Ys event

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Is that one of the Book of Hours events? And is it the particular mystique one (Ivory Dawn), or the prophecy one, or another one?

 

[Naqu2o]

Is that one of the Book of Hours events? And is it the particular mystique one (Ivory Dawn), or the prophecy one, or another one?

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Rising While