Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

[Talon Tiger Dino]

To use a metaphor.

Evil is a running a Gun shop with murderously low prices. Any pony can just walk into his shop and buy a gun to go murder someone. But he's not shooting ponies himself, he's not forcing them to kill and hurt others, he's just provides the tools for ponies to make the world darker of their own free will.

Paranoia is running adds on friendtube and ponies either have to deal with it or get a subscription to friendshipplus. He doesn't make friendship and working together impossible he just makes it require effort and hard work. Ponies are the ones who deside if they want to pay the cost, if they want to overcome their fear and work together.



That's basically the whole issue. After an era ponykind suddenly has a choice. They can choose to embrace inherent goodness or inherent evilness. But it's not Velvet's choice it's theirs. Blaming Velvet for others choices is dismissing the agency of others.

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Evil goes around making things worse by just existing. Paranoia actively goes around and fucks with ponies' heads, putting thoughts and worries directly into their heads where there were none before in a way where they think it is entirely their own. That's deliberate sabotage via mental intrusion. Ash will actively hunt down and kill people. This isn't the equivalent of setting up a store and letting people shop, this is dosing the water supply with some mind-altering chemicals while cackling as your brother goes about brutalizing certain people even more.

Also Evil isn't running a gun shop because you can use guns for target shooting or hunting or other nice things. Evil would sell chemical or biological weapons because all those can do is harm with a great chance of hurting the user.

 

[Shaper47]

her Chosen he needs to choose her too, their Love is mutual not one sided, if it was Grail instead of Harmony it would fit the power you described but it isn't so it doesn't apply.

Nice try twisting the conversation with Cadance though, here is what actually happened

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That would be a lot more convincing if we didn't have an example of what Cadence's Harmony power is from when she visited. It was the very definition of brainwashing.

 

[DelightedOne]

That would be a lot more convincing if we didn't have an example of what Cadence's Harmony power is from when she visited. It was the very definition of brainwashing.

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Where exactly there was brainwashing in this:

-and you feel as if the entire world was alive. Alive, and able to love, and actively caring for the future of every living creature in it-

-and you feel as if you finally get it. You finally understand all the wrongs that happened in your life, and you finally find the inner strength to forgive your own father for everything he has done-

-and Love itself appears before you. Love itself walks the land, as real as day and night, in all its glory and warmth and power-

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In the first part where the world cares about the future of every living creature?

In the second part where Velvet Covers, a mare who hates herself, feels Love itself showing her how to move on from all the pain in her past, to leave behind whatever her father has done?

Or is it in the third part, where the Princess of Love appears, desperate to find out what happened to her Chosen?

The answer is simple: There is no brainwashing.
What we see is only the effects of the unleashed aura of an Alicorn who embodies the concept of Love, not unlike meeting a Name who is going all out.

Your hate for Harmony and appreciation for the Wolf is known to many at this point so I hope this short text will help in making it clear to those who did not yet know where your loyalties truly lie.

 

[Void_510]

[X] A self-invited guest
[X] A disturbed guest

 

[spiderhellian]

Say, did you see where Stormy went, Soft?"

You say that as you look around, searching for your missing husband. He left your side as soon as the ceremony was over. But the sudden cheers (and your own "bawling your eyes out" predicament) did not allow you to hear where he said he was going.

"I'm don't know, Mrs. Velvet. But I'm sure we will find him eventually."

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@OurLadyOfWires This might already be in the pipeline, but can we make sure Velvet asks her husband — the dude who can "realize when a particular object or moment is important" —where he went after the ceremony?

 

[Shaper47]

In the second part where Velvet Covers, a mare who hates herself, feels Love itself showing her how to move on from all the pain in her past, to leave behind whatever her father has done?

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This right here is especially blatant brainwashing.

Your hate for Harmony and appreciation for the Wolf is known to many at this point so I hope this short text will help in making it clear to those who did not yet know where your loyalties truly lie.

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Attacking people instead of their argument is pretty disingenuous as is spreading blantet lies about people.

I don't hate Harmony. I think that fundamentally they have shown to make the world a better place. However due to the consequences of their actions I have questioned their intentions and goals.

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

I mean we've done a shit-ton more harm to Equestrian than Harmony has. What with making the world more Evil, Paranoid, and Terrified.

Harmony got one Worm in it, contained it within a day, and then let it out for it to be promptly wiped away and cured.
It has also previously handled Discord, Tirek, an evil goat whose name I forget, and so on. Like yeah, those outsiders rocked up and they got handled.

Now what has the system of Glory wrought back in its heydey?
Well, it provided the Worms a place to explode in numbers. It caused endless violence and strife. It made the Wolf who made the Windigos who almost wiped out all life in the world. It's steadily made things worse for the average pony in the world currently. Oh, mandatory Pony sacrifice just to make the sun move, that was a thing. And if the Crowned Growth had an equivalent in this universe, allowing an Outsider to rise up to Hourhood. Do you ever question the Glory's goals or intentions?

 

[Lorrie]

Now what has the system of Glory wrought back in its heydey?
Well, it provided the Worms a place to explode in numbers. It caused endless violence and strife. It made the Wolf who made the Windigos who almost wiped out all life in the world. It's steadily made things worse for the average pony in the world currently. Oh, mandatory Pony sacrifice just to make the sun move, that was a thing. And if the Crowned Growth had an equivalent in this universe, allowing an Outsider to rise up to Hourhood. Do you ever question the Glory's goals or intentions?

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I don't think the Glory in of itself has ever been described as sentient, so most of those things were the Hours' fault, in particular The Forge of Days, as her killing the Sun-in-Splendor is what caused the need for sacrifices, the proliferation of the Worms, and the existence of the Wolf+Windigos.
So honestly The Forge of Days is to blame for the overwhelming majority of what's wrong.

 

[spiderhellian]

I don't think the Glory in of itself has ever been described as sentient

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Do we think Harmony is?

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

I am simply making a comparison of systems here. Sure, Glory might not have a goal itself if it isn't sentient, but it inevitably instill the same systems whenever it is in ascendancy.

The Tree of Harmony did speak at some point in the MLP show, Spider, and it seems more active in shaping events, so most people do believe Harmony is sentient at this time, or at least would become such if given the chance.

Granted, we could be conflating the Tree of Harmony with Harmony itself, when the Tree could be more of a Name equivalent, in which case Harmony could just be a self-reinforcing paradigm like the Glory is with similar levels of sentience.

 

[Shaper47]

Do you ever question the Glory's goals or intentions?

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I don't think Glory has goals or intentions. It had Hours for that kind of stuff.

It has also previously handled Discord, Tirek, an evil goat whose name I forget, and so on. Like yeah, those outsiders rocked up and they got handled.

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Only Discord is an Outsider and he ruled the world for like an entire era.

And we don't know how things went down with those guys.

I mean we've done a shit-ton more harm to Equestrian than Harmony has. What with making the world more Evil, Paranoid, and Terrified.

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Debatable, Harmony's plot starts by replicating the Intercalate and has that really sus thing going on with the worms. It might have good intentions or it might not, we don't have enough information to tell yet.

Lady of Wolves is better then Harmony's worms in the end.

Still, does it really matter?

Sure Harmony might have good or bad intentions but we don't have the information to confirm either yet.

And given that we're aiming for the Glory victory we're not aiming for the Harmony or Lady of Wolves victory.

So let's focus on our Glorious Victory condition and leave the truth about Harmony to the future. Once we know more we can see who's speculations was right.

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

Do we think Harmony is?

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I don't think Glory has goals or intentions. It had Hours for that kind of stuff.



Only Discord is an Outsider and he ruled the world for like an entire era.

And we don't know how things went down with those guys.



Debatable, Harmony's plot starts by replicating the Imaculate and has that really sus thing going on with the worms. It might have good intentions or it might not, we don't have enough information to tell yet.

Lady of Wolves is better then Harmony's worms in the end.

Still, does it really matter?

Sure Harmony might have good or bad intentions but we don't have the information to confirm either yet.

And given that we're aiming for the Glory victory we're not aiming for the Harmony or Lady of Wolves victory.

So let's focus on our Glorious Victory condition and leave the truth about Harmony to the future. Once we know more we can see who's speculations was right.

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There is nothing sus regarding Harmony and the Worms! Every time we see Harmony stuff interact with worm-stuff, it is completely adversarial! Either the worms get disintegrated, or they manage to infest and violate a host. And you know what else attracts Worms? Glory! And Glory doesn't destroy the Worms, at best it crushes them and throws them into the Worm Museum to be guarded forever.

As for replicating the Intercalate, no Wolf equivalent was spawned and it resulted in two powerful entities that saved ponykind from one Outsider and continuously aided Ponykind thereafter, so I don't see the problem there either. I mean shit, it was even consensual as the price of entry to the world. (I now wonder if that consent is why it went so smoothly?)

As for the rest of your argument, that is a logical thing to do given Bird's confirmed lock on Glory.

I will also say that I don't like that ooc confirmation lock, because it can be used as a debative bludgeon for any arguments to try and do something not Glory-related. Possibly the only QM action I would gripe about.

 

[OurLadyOfWires]

Debatable, Harmony's plot starts by replicating the Imaculate and has that really sus thing going on with the worms. It might have good intentions or it might not, we don't have enough information to tell yet.

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Color me genuinelly curious. This is the first time in the entirety of the thread (according to the search function at least) that the term "imaculate" is ever used. And the wolf-coloring is intriguing.

Could you explain what your theory of Harmony's plot is?

Also, my own two cents. I think Harmony can be considered a force of "good".
Of course, the definition of "what is good?" is its own debate, which I wont join.
But considering how Harmony was the only known "power" at play during the present Era, and that ponykind ended the way it did (as in, they were fine right before the beginning of the Quest) id say Harmony AT LEAST gets a positive benefit of the doubt, no?

I mean. People look at the Era when the Lores were prominent, interpret that it was a bad era, and conclude that "the Lores made for a bad system". And fallacious or not, the interpretation that "the quality of an Era is a reflection of its ruling system" has some merit, no?

So, given how ponies were doing fine for the last 1000 years, doesnt Harmony get some browny points?

Edit:

I will also say that I don't like that ooc confirmation lock, because it can be used as a debative bludgeon for any arguments to try and do something not Glory-related. Possibly the only QM action I would gripe about.

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A valid gripe btw. All i can do is ask you to trust me, really.
Investing in other victories right now would be counterproductive at best, and disastrous at worst.

 

[Lorrie]

Investing in other victories right now would be counterproductive at best, and disastrous at worst.

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Can't you give even a small hint as to why?

 

[OurLadyOfWires]

Can't you give even a small hint as to why?

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I like to think that a victory needs two things: a door and a key.

You need to discover what the door is. You need to discover what the key is. Then you need to acquire the key and take it to the door.

Apply this to the four known victory conditions, and see for yourself how far you are from anything other than Glory. Ignore all thread-optimist while making said analysis.

That's all i am comfortable saying, if that makes sense.

 

[angelsadvocate666]

So, realistically, five steps for a victory. Know what the key is, know what the door is, know where the key is, know where the door is, and then act. Maybe six if you count acquisition and bringing the key to the door as two different things.

Glory is half complete. We know what the key and door are, where the door is, but not where the key is nor have we acquired it or brought it to the door. Well, we don't know where a key we're willing to use is anyways.

Moon ending… we suspect that the SH Sacrament getting us to the Tower is at least moving in the direction of the Door, but have no confirmation. Though I suppose it may be the Door with the Sacrament being the key. But again, we don't know. Technically 0 steps in.

Harmony, again, we suspect the Memory of Light research will lead us to the Door, and I would assume the two Sisters are the key, but we aren't sure and definitely haven't "found them." Again, technically 0 steps.

Wolf Ending is probably, well, the Wolf itself as the Door, and a fully Stained Velvet as the key.

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

A valid gripe btw. All i can do is ask you to trust me, really.
Investing in other victories right now would be counterproductive at best, and disastrous at worst.

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You don't understand, this isn't a matter of trust. I love that you are willing to punch the quest for their choices, that there seemingly weren't any ooc guardrails keeping us safe, just Velvet's IC suppositions. It was wonderfully dangerous. But now there are some pretty massive neon guardrails and guideways shaping things. Like some of the mystery has been scraped away.

Wait, is this is because we burned the Woods? Without Moth we can't get lost any more! Now the dangers will always be in our face, Ash I am now demoting you to worst son because now I can't flutter about poking the setting with a stick to satisfy my fascination with it. Because you will eat me for doing so.

If it was an unintentional parallel do let me know.

 

[Shaper47]

Could you explain what your theory of Harmony's plot is?

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Pretty sure I mentioned it in my omake but my theory on Harmony's plot is that it is attempting to subvert the Lores with its Elements. Something similar to how Forge subverted Flint.

So basically- Laughter subverts heart, Love subverts grail, Kindness subverts winter, Honesty subverts lantern, loyalty subverts edge while Magic subverts forge.

The Dreamlands subverts the Woods. (Wonder how that's going now?)

So, given how ponies were doing fine for the last 1000 years, doesnt Harmony get some browny points?

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Quite a few, Harmony has clearly worked to make a kinder world and succeed pretty well for Ponies in the Wake.

---

Now to move onto my concerns of Harmony's grand plan. I have three major concerns.

First, replicating the Intercalate. The major enforcers of Harmony's plan in this are a result of it replicating the most abominable crime. Sure it seems to have worked out great but any plan that has let's replicate the situation of the birth of the Wolf-Divided as a major part is a concerning plan.

Second, the state of the Manus. The house of the Sun and the wake are reflections of one another. That the Manus is a ruin makes one concerned about the real state of the Wake.

Third, and my most major concern is the side effects of Harmony's subversion of the Lores in regards to the worms. The Lores were used to shield the world from the worms. Heart for example is the Lore of the Great Protector of the world. Baldomare mentioned that somebody ensured some pretty powerful lore defenses got put up and otherwise the world would be Wormed. But if the defenses of the world are based on the lores what happens when that lore weakens due to Harmony's subversion efforts? That the Elements seem to have an attractive quality compared to the lores to the worms only makes things worse.

 

[Lorrie]

First, replicating the Imaculate.

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Do you mean the Intercalate?

 

[Shaper47]

Do you mean the Intercalate?

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Yes, sorry about the typo.

 

[Zxzx24]

Pretty sure I mentioned it in my omake but my theory on Harmony's plot is that it is attempting to subvert the Lores with its Elements. Something similar to how Forge subverted Flint.

So basically- Laughter subverts heart, Love subverts grail, Kindness subverts winter, Honesty subverts lantern, loyalty subverts edge while Magic subverts forge.

The Dreamlands subverts the Woods. (Wonder how that's going now?)

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This is an interesting theory and actually something I am also curious about.

There is now a Crack leading from Ash to the dreamland. Lunas domain.

And while Ash will likely spare our beloved daughter. There is little comfort for anyone else among pony kind.

The Lores were used to shield the world from the worms.

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I'm actually not too sure of this. There was that wardstone the Daughter of Axes took the fillies to. Something Luna apparently had a hand in shaping.

 

[Shaper47]

I'm actually not too sure of this. There was that wardstone the Daughter of Axes took the fillies to. Something Luna apparently had a hand in shaping.

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I think that's Wake related and just a fancy signpost.

I'm more thinking about the wards.

There are too many unknowns. You know not about the status of the wards,

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[Zxzx24]

I think that's Wake related and just a fancy signpost.

I'm more thinking about the wards.

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I disagree. But perhaps Luna could tell us.

 

[Sveta08]

Well, yeah? Of course a win state requires a door and a key. You can't destroy the Worms. You have to bar entry.
And before someone hops in saying that Harmony can and does kill worms, I'm talking Worms as the concept and existential threat. Not as an individual worm and thing.

We have some of the doors if I have to guess. The Moon, Glory, Regrettable Actions. Harmony, we haven't even the foggiest in my eyes.
But what to do on/with the Moon. with Glory? Eh, not too sure. Regrettable Actions are their own end state, and a bad end at that.

Either way, it's just sorta... Glory is only the real path ahead. Not that the others don't exist, but that even finding the paths that lead to them will take longer than I think Velvet now has?
Hopefully that makes sense.

 

[OurLadyOfWires]

A test to see how vote tally program works here


Vote Tally[] : Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience | Page 14 | Questionable Questing Posts: 409-461
##### NetTally 5.0.6

Task: 【NONE】[]
— Voters: 36

[] A self-invited guest
No. of Votes: 17
[] Witherbrine2671
[] ActuallySatan
[] Bakkasama
[] Blackeagle1991
[] Darkday
[] Earth-Destroyer
[] EMIYA
[] Greymere
[] Iustus Vitea
[] Jimmy
[] LieutenantSpirit
[] Lorrie
[] Pharohman777
[] qeadzc
[] Shadels
[] Shaper47
[] The Radiance's Follower

[] A disturbed guest
No. of Votes: 14[/b]
[] Gyldir
[] Anjaxis
[] Bakkasama
[] Calico J
[] Greymere
[] HellFire666
[] Iustus Vitea
[] jelloloaf
[] LieutenantSpirit
[] Limabot
[] Nevermort
[] Pittauro
[] Potdl
[] Shadels

[] A host of guests
No. of Votes: 10
[] Jame
[] Anjaxis
[] Gyldir
[] keykigdom
[] Limabot
[] Nevermort
[] Rafuki22
[] Solace2117
[] Talon Tiger Dino
[] Venerable Ro

[] A Royal guest
No. of Votes: 9
[] Starlit Horizon
[] Anjaxis
[] Cochimetl
[] jelloloaf
[] LieutenantSpirit
[] Limabot
[] Shadels
[] Sveta08
[] Talon Tiger Dino

[] A troublesome guest
No. of Votes: 1
[] Cochimetl

[] Pat Softy
No. of Votes: 1
[] Zxzx24

[] Pat Softy (She deserves it)
No. of Votes: 1
[] Venerable Ro

---

Total No. of Voters: 36

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This is a test. My (very low) computer literacy means this took more time than I hoped it would have.

Still:

Vote Tally : Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience | Page 14 | Questionable Questing [Posts: 409-604]
##### NetTally 4.0.2

[X] A self-invited guest
No. of Votes: 31
[X] Witherbrine2671
[X] ActuallySatan
[X] Alan975
[x] Bakkasama
[X] Blackeagle1991
[X] Darkday
[X] des-pair-2
[x] Earth-Destroyer
[X] EMIYA
[x] F#A#
[X] Greymere
[X] IronHydra
[X] Iustus Vitea
[X] Jimmy
[x] Kai Merah
[X] Kingmaker123
[X] LieutenantSpirit
[X] Lorrie
[X] master2000
[X] Nate700
[x] Pharohman777
[X] Portec
[X] qeadzc
[X] Random Anon
[X] Shadels
[X] Shaper47
[X] Skelm
[X] The Radiance's Follower
[X] Turamarth
[X] Void_510
[X] Zxzx24

[X] A disturbed guest
No. of Votes: 20
[X] Gyldir
[X] Anjaxis
[X] Bakkasama
[X] Calico J
[X] DelightedOne
[X] F#A#
[X] Greymere
[X] HellFire666
[X] Iustus Vitea
[X] jelloloaf
[x] Kai Merah
[X] LieutenantSpirit
[X] Limabot
[X] Nevermort
[X] notgreat
[x] Pittauro
[X] Potdl
[X] Random Anon
[X] Shadels
[X] Void_510

[X] A host of guests
No. of Votes: 17
[X] Jame
[X] Anjaxis
[X] AuthorTransient
[X] DelightedOne
[X] des-pair-2
[X] Gyldir
[X] keykigdom
[X] Limabot
[X] master2000
[X] Nevermort
[X] Rafuki22
[X] SirKana
[X] Skelm
[X] Solace2117
[X] Talon Tiger Dino
[X] Venerable Ro
[X] Zxzx24

[X] A Royal guest
No. of Votes: 13
[X] Starlit Horizon
[X] Alan975
[X] Anjaxis
[X] BritBiscuit
[X] Cochimetl
[X] jelloloaf
[X] LieutenantSpirit
[X] Limabot
[X] master2000
[X] notgreat
[X] Shadels
[X] Sveta08
[X] Talon Tiger Dino

[X] A troublesome guest
No. of Votes: 1
[X] Cochimetl

[X] Pat Softy (She deserves it)
No. of Votes: 1
[X] Venerable Ro


Total No. of Voters: 54




Our results seem to be similar. So I suppose the program is working.

 

[Shaper47]

On a change of subject.

Velvet has been a fun character to play as, we minmaxed for books and ended getting high personal lores instead of going on expeditions for artifacts.

What would be some interesting negaverse characters we could have created?

I'll start.

[ ] Plan Eclipse
-[] Physiology
--[]Name: Griffith Whitehawk
--[] Male
--[] Cutie Mark: Err, you don't have one.
--[] A gryphon: You're a long way from home, and when you first arrived you did turn a lot of heads. But you've been settled down for a few years now. (+3 martial, +2 intrigue, flight capable, +10 personal combat)
-[] Traits
--[] a Workhorse: Lean or robust, tall or well built. You stand a full head over other ponies. (+2 Martial, +5 on tests that require physical strength, and personal combat).
--[] Healthy: "Healthy as a horse" is more than literal when it comes to you. (+1 health)
--[] Naturally Talented: Just a bit faster, just a bit sharper. Some ponies are simply borne better than others, and you are one of them. (+1 on all status) COSTS 2 COINS
-[] Background
--[] Soldiers: Not members of the royal guard, but the sight of spears and armors was normal for you as you grew up. Not many ponies can count "polishing helmets" as a household chore. (+2 Martial, +5 personal combat, -1 Stewardship)
--[] You were promoted!: Lieutenant, not soldier. Manager, not clerk. There is a hierarchy in this world, and you climbed a step through hard work, not birthright. (Starts with a prestigious job. This job will be better paying albeit more demanding, but it WILL give you easier access to whatever your cult is after)
--[] You went out on an expedition: Timberwolves are a stark reminder of how hard wood can be, especially when its sharp, sentient and bearing down on your throat. (+1 Martial, starts with personal combat gear)
-[] Complications
--[] Frightened: Maybe it is the result of some trauma, maybe you were borne like that, but the end result is the same. You are weaker than most. (-10 Personal Combat, +1 coin)
--[] Scarred: You survived, but it is better if you do not try to do that again. (-1 Health, +1 coin)
--[] Compromised: You did something, and your cult connections bailed you out. (You have a personal debt to the master of your cult, +2 coins)
--[] Enemies: Its not all friendship and magic. Someone out there is trying to get you. (+1 coin)

Martial 17
Diplomacy 9
Stewardship 8
Intrigue 11
Magic 9
Learning 9

Maximum Health: 3 (4 - 1 (Scarred))

Total personal combat: +27(+17 martial, +20 traits, -10 Frightened)

Would have been am interesting alternative history. Going on expeditions to gain the artifacts to heal Griffith's body and mind, learn some edge and you have the ability to murder blend everything in his way. Base personal combat of 37 + 20 edge, add on a 40 influence and he'd walk around with + 97.

 

[SolipsistSerpent]

[X] A self-invited guest

 

[Iustus Vitea]

Um the votes closed

 

[Cochimetl]

Um the votes closed

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No it isn't. Vote closes on Friday, that tally was just a test.

 

[Lorrie]

[ ] Plan Eclipse

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I'd remove Expedition so as to not need Frightened, but that'd be an interesting character for an Edge cult.