Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

[Sveta08]

Hot damn. Ain't that a spook?

Congrats Hellian!

 

[DelightedOne]

We also have a new expense of 60 bits/turn starting at the end of this turn (to keep Biedde summoned)

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Isn't it better to pay 100 bits to get 2 effective turns(since he uses the first one to hunt monsters)?

 

[spiderhellian]

Heza's Hand, you're prolific. Calling it now, if the thread ever goes a week without another spiderhellian omake, the end times have arrived.

In all seriousness though, it was really cool! I love how you flesh out characters whose perspectives we don't see too much of, and Velvet from outside being scary is a favorite of mine. Great work

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Nice writing though.

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Hot damn. Ain't that a spook?

Congrats Hellian!

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Thank you all

Isn't it better to pay 100 bits to get 2 effective turns(since he uses the first one to hunt monsters)?

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Eh, I don't think so.

it's 60 bits/AP vs. 50 bits/AP (since we don't get an AP from him that first turn). Which isn't that much more expensive.

Plus, earlier AP tend to be more useful than later ones (benefits compound), and we also lose him guarding on the turn he hunts. I think those benefits are worth the extra bits/AP.

If we think we're going to be low on bits in the future, it might be worthwhile just to have his summoning extended longer, but we should have enough to keep him around. As long as we're not wasting bits on Level 4 reagents we don't need!

 

[Sveta08]

Isn't it better to pay 100 bits to get 2 effective turns(since he uses the first one to hunt monsters)?

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Strictly speaking, yes economically, no action wise.

Paying 100 bits means for one turn he is gone, for two turns he is here. So for each turn it's 33 but, or 50 but per usable turn. On a turn by turn basis, he costs 60.

So, while it does save us 10 bits per turn, we also loose 1 action and a free turn with him as a guard.

So it asks "Is 1 Biedde action and the free guard worth more, or less than 33 bits?"

And I at least think, yes


Edit:
Wait. I was doing the comparison wrong. The compared costs are 180 for three turns.

So, his one action costs 80 bits vs 1 Guard action, 1 Biedde action, and knowing where and what the Edge Moth Name is doing
A steeper cost, but I still think it's worth.

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

I do not think we can afford to bleed 60 Bits a Turn, sadly. Best go for the 100 and let Biedde go tear apart monsters for a turn. After all our biggest enemy is currently busy being dead, so a turn without Biedde guarding isn't super-scary.

 

[Shaper47]

If Selene guards not having Biedde around is ok.

Though I was thinking more for after we spar and maybe send him on a really dangerous task.

 

[LieutenantSpirit]

It might be worth paying 60 bits for one turn of Biedde before sending him off. Primarily, so we can make use of a Forge's Redemption for his Edge Sacrament, and we also probably want to scry on Windy/Neighna first to see how much of a threat they pose without that extra guard.

Additionally, if we plan to go "All In," it might be worth letting his contract lapse the turn prior if we're tight on bits for actions.

 

[Zxzx24]

[X] Plan: KISS (Keep it Snake, Stupid)

 

[Steady Gaze]

[X] Plan: Prudent KISSing

Yeah, I think the leading plan strikes the right balance compared to the rest. While we could do it, I don't find it worth it to tie up every loose end if the costs are too high (Forge 3 vs Forge 4, 4 actions on snekmare vs. 6, etc.).

A couple other random topics:

• I am glad everyone seems to have agreed to deprioritize Neighnia. We can't afford to drop everything to find her right now. Plus at this stage it's far more important to befriend our existing names than acquire new ones (to take them on the All In expedition).
• The DC for our personal SH sacrament will be incredibly high. Are we really sure we don't want to go for Baldomare's SH sacrament, which is likely to be easier? Not that I don't see the narrative advantage of doing our "own" sacrament, but it's basically doing new/original research rather than being taught by a master. Of course our personal SH sacrament is going to be harder (and costs an additional valuable Velvet AP).

 

[OurLadyOfWires]

The Detective is On the Case

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Ah. Every now and then you and Venerable Ro will mention something that's just about to happen. Granted, you tend to reduce it into writing (although given how awesome these are, I'd change that phrase to enhance it into writing ), while Ro will just say it in a comment.

Still, it's nice to see that the narrative hooks I put are picked up!

And more importantly, this was awesome! Thank you so much for sharing!

Yknow, earlier today when I read it I found myself in a bit of a pinch. Because on the one hand, this isn't exactly how this will happen. But on the other hand, this turned out so well that I considered scraping my own alternative and putting this on the main story when we reach that level.
Still, ultimately, I decided I also want to throw my hat on this particular scene.
Beyond Reproach (and to a lesser extent his partner Iron Button) were two characters that I started setting the stage for a long time ago. The archetypal "skeptic" and "by the books" pair of detectives that so often get paired together. And I took great pains to "spread out" the clues he would get about you, so that his skepticism would grow at a believable speed, so we could finally have something like this happen. And come on, the writing is on the wall that he is suspicious of you now, on the same brushstroke that gained you a great deal of respect within the Bureau. So, this conclusion is inevitable.

So, as great as your post is, I hope you will forgive me for wanting to try to close this narrative circle as well

But again, thank you so much for this! It was a blast to read!

I'm sorry!

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You being sorry implies that there is something to be sorry about.

Really, try to see it from my perspective. For you to be sorry, the phrase "my ego was bruised because someone posted an omake on the horse quest before me" needs to be true on my end.

Give me some credit here, brother



On to other news.

Current tally seems to be this

Spoiler: Tally

Vote Tally : Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience | Page 274 | Questionable Questing [Posts: 8350-8439]
##### NetTally 4.0.2

[X] Plan Prudent KISSing
-[X] (AotL) Lantern
-[X] (Forge) Forge 3 reagent
-[X] (Knock) Explore the Summit
-[X] (Winter) Invoke a Risen
-[X] (Social) Teach Selene
-[X] Fleeting Opportunity: Family
-[X] Fleeting Opportunity: Friends
-[X] Perform the Forge's Redemption
--[X] Sacrifice Forge 3 reagent
--[X] At Jade's old house
-[X] Sacrament: Through the Foggy Mirror (4x)
No. of Votes: 14

Spoiler: Voters

[◈] Plan: Prudent KISSing
[X] Alan975
[X] Anjaxis
[X] AuthorTransient
[X] Bakkasama
[X] DelightedOne
[X] Flaregamer82253
[X] Greymere
[X] LieutenantSpirit
[X] Limabot
[X] Nevermort
[X] Pororurin
[X] Steady Gaze
[X] Sveta08
[X] Waela

[X] Plan KISS (Keep it Snake, Stupid)
-[X] (AotL) Lantern (Explore Summit)
-[X] (Forge) Forge 3 reagent
-[X] (Knock) Explore the Summit
-[X] (Winter) Summon a Risen
-[X] FO Family
-[X] (Social) FO Friends
-[X] DoA Sacrament x6
No. of Votes: 12

Spoiler: Voters

[◈] Plan: KISS (Keep it Snake, Stupid)
[X] Alan975
[X] Anjaxis
[x] Earth-Destroyer
[X] Flaregamer82253
[X] Greymere
[X] LieutenantSpirit
[X] Limabot
[X] MisRAR1
[X] Shaper47
[X] Solace2117
[X] spiderhellian
[X] Zxzx24

[X] Plan Prudent KISSing but even more prudent
-[X] (AotL) Lantern
-[X] (Forge) Forge 4 reagent
-[X] (Knock) Explore the Summit
-[X] (Winter) Invoke a Risen
-[X] (Social) Teach Selene
-[X] Fleeting Opportunity: Family
-[X] Fleeting Opportunity: Friends
-[X] Perform the Forge's Redemption
--[X] Sacrifice Forge 4 reagent
--[X] At Jade's old house
-[X] Sacrament: Through the Foggy Mirror (4x)
No. of Votes: 10

Spoiler: Voters

[◈] Plan: Prudent KISSing but even more prudent
[X] angelsadvocate666
[X] DelightedOne
[X] Flaregamer82253
[X] Greymere
[X] LieutenantSpirit
[x] Limabot
[X] Maer
[x] Pittauro
[X] Sveta08
[X] Waela

[X] Plan KISS (Keep it Snake, Stupid) + Wastes
-[X] (AotL) Secret Histories (Ashen Wastes)
-[X] (Forge) Forge 3 reagent
-[X] (Knock) Explore the Ashen Wastes
-[X] (Winter) Summon a Risen
-[X] FO Family
-[X] (Social) FO Friends
-[X] DoA Sacrament x6
No. of Votes: 7

Spoiler: Voters

[◈] Plan: KISS (Keep it Snake, Stupid) + Wastes
[X] Alan975
[X] Arrkhon
[x] Earth-Destroyer
[X] Flaregamer82253
[X] Maer
[X] MisRAR1
[X] Shaper47

[X] Plan Taking a Chance
-[X] (AotL) Lantern
-[X] (Forge) Forge 3 reagent
-[X] (Knock) Explore the Summit
-[X] (Winter) Summon a Risen
-[X] FO Family
-[X] (Social) FO Friends
-[X] Personal SH Sacrament x2
-[X] DOA Sacrament x4
No. of Votes: 7

Spoiler: Voters

[◈] Plan: Taking a Chance
[X] Alan975
[X] Portec
[X] Potdl
[X] Shaper47
[X] Solace2117
[X] Talon Tiger Dino
[X] Void_510

[X] Plan KISS (Keep it Snake, Stupid) + Summit
-[X] (AotL) Secret Histories (Explore Summit)
-[X] (Forge) Forge 3 reagent
-[X] (Knock) Explore the Summit
-[X] (Winter) Summon a Risen
-[X] FO Family
-[X] (Social) FO Friends
-[X] DoA Sacrament x6
No. of Votes: 5

Spoiler: Voters

[◈] Plan: KISS (Keep it Snake, Stupid) + Summit
[X] Alan975
[X] Flaregamer82253
[X] Maer
[X] MisRAR1
[X] Shaper47

[X] PLan All on Snake
-[X] (AotL) Grail
-[X] (Forge) Forge 3 reagent
-[X][MANSUS] Tarrying in the Wastes (Search for a new area)
-[X] (Free) Summon a Risen
-[X] (Social) FO Family
-[X] FO Friends
-[X] DOA Sacrament x6
No. of Votes: 4

Spoiler: Voters

[◈] Plan: All on Snake
[X] Alan975
[x] Earth-Destroyer
[X] MisRAR1
[X] Shaper47

[X] Plan KISS (Keep it Snake, Stupid) + Wastes and SH Sacrament
-[X] (AotL) Secret Histories (Ashen Wastes)
-[X] (Forge) Forge 3 reagent
-[X] (Knock) Explore the Ashen Wastes
-[X] (Winter) Summon a Risen
-[X] FO Family
-[X] (Social) FO Friends
-[X] personal SH Sacrament
-[X] DoA Sacrament x5
No. of Votes: 4

Spoiler: Voters

[◈] Plan: KISS (Keep it Snake, Stupid) + Wastes and SH Sacrament
[X] Alan975
[X] MisRAR1
[X] Potdl
[X] Shaper47

[X] Plan Living on the line
-[X] (AotL) Grail
-[X] (Forge) Forge 3 reagent
-[X][MANSUS] Tarrying in the Wastes (Search for a new area)
-[X] (Winter) Summon a Risen
-[X] (Social) FO Family
-[X] FO Friends
-[X] Personal SH Sacrament x2
-[X] DOA Sacrament x4
No. of Votes: 4

Spoiler: Voters

[◈] Plan: Living on the line
[X] Alan975
[X] Potdl
[X] Shaper47
[X] Void_510

[X] Plan Responsible KISSing
-[X] (AotL) Lantern
-[X] (Forge) Reserve for after DoA's Sacrament resolves
-[X] (Knock) Explore the Summit
-[X] (Winter) Invoke a Risen
-[X] (Social) Teach Selene
-[X] Fleeting Opportunity: Family
-[X] Fleeting Opportunity: Friends
-[X] Sacrament: Through the Foggy Mirror (5x)
No. of Votes: 3

Spoiler: Voters

[◈] Plan: Responsible KISSing
[X] Greymere
[X] Limabot
[X] Waela

[X] Plan Prudent KISSing with some Grail
-[X] (AotL) Grail
-[X] (Forge) Forge 3 reagent
-[X] (Knock) Explore the Summit
-[X] (Winter) Invoke a Risen
-[X] (Social) Teach Selene
-[X] Fleeting Opportunity: Family
-[X] Fleeting Opportunity: Friends
-[X] Perform the Forge's Redemption
--[X] Sacrifice Forge 3 reagent
--[X] At Jade's old house
-[X] Sacrament: Through the Foggy Mirror (4x)
No. of Votes: 2

Spoiler: Voters

[◈] Plan: Prudent KISSing with some Grail
[X] Bakkasama
[X] Nevermort

[X] Plan: SH + Selene + Health
-[X] (AotL) Secret Histories
-[X] (Forge) Forge 3 reagent
-[X] (Knock) Explore the Summit
-[X] (Winter) Summon a Risen
-[X] "The Forge's Redemption"
--[X] Sacrifice Forge 3 reagent
--[X] At Jade's old house
-[X] FO Family
-[X] (Social) FO Friends
-[X] Teach Selene, and make her something more.
-[X] personal SH Sacrament
-[X] DoA Sacrament x 3
No. of Votes: 2

Spoiler: Voters

[◈] Plan: SH + Selene + Health
[X] des-pair-2
[X] Void_510

[X] Plan Grail opportunity
-[X] (AotL) Grail
-[X] (Forge) Reserve for after DoA's Sacrament resolves
-[X] (Knock) Explore the Summit
-[X] (Winter) Invoke a Risen
-[X] (Social) Teach Selene
-[X] Fleeting Opportunity: Family
-[X] Fleeting Opportunity: Friends
-[X] Sacrament: Through the Foggy Mirror (5x)
No. of Votes: 1

Spoiler: Voters

[◈] Plan: Grail opportunity
[X] Nevermort

[X] Plan Prudent KISSing but even moreprudent
No. of Votes: 1

Spoiler: Voters

[X] Nevermort

[X] Plan Responsible KISSing (Forge Variant)
No. of Votes: 1

Spoiler: Voters

[X] Flaregamer82253

Total No. of Voters: 29

I thank the Wolf none of you absolute snake kissers came up with a plan with the word "deep" or "long" or anything like that.

Still, I am somewhat glad that this is proceeding so smoothly. Are there differences in the plan? Absolutely. Are they important, yes. But ultimately, the notion of "overinvesting in DoA's Sacrament is legal" was well understood, so everyone knows that any surplus action (if any) will be voted on without any issues.

Also, just to add a tiny bit more information. Nothing major, but that it might help some people go this or that way.

Any action that you vote for, that is not DoA's Sacrament, will almost certainly take place before the Sacrament attempts. Velvet will see it as her "preparing" to take the leap, or getting her affairs in order before going into the unknown.

Other than that, I hope you are all doing well!

And good evening to us all.

 

[Shaper47]

And I would ask -- if we're one action short of the Knock Sacrament, or off befriending the DoA, wouldn't we prefer that we complete it over at least one of those?

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Probably

The DC for our personal SH sacrament will be incredibly high. Are we really sure we don't want to go for Baldomare's SH sacrament, which is likely to be easier? Not that I don't see the narrative advantage of doing our "own" sacrament, but it's basically doing new/original research rather than being taught by a master. Of course our personal SH sacrament is going to be harder (and costs an additional valuable Velvet AP).

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With an influence the DC is completely manageable. We roll with a 94 bonus with a reroll. So the DC is not a problem.

Baldomare's Sacrament cost a Baldomare action which is way more valuable then a Velvet AP.

For a Baldomare influence we can use it for a bunch of other things. Level 4 heart, reaching 2/4 Forge, exploring the Mansus, impressing the Bureau, ect.

Also potential scraps is a big bonus.

Especially relvent is the context of our current situation. Baldomare's AP is especially useful for our lantern sacrament and Neighnia situation.

So mechanically Personal Sacrament is optimal.

Narrative advantages are also a plus.

 

[spiderhellian]

So, as great as your post is, I hope you will forgive me for wanting to try to close this narrative circle as well

But again, thank you so much for this! It was a blast to read!

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I'm really glad you enjoyed it!

And yeah, ever since I realized how badly we ignored the Comet-Shining scene, I do try to read the updates carefully. And then sometimes they give me ideas…

I love every glimpse we get of Beyond Reproach, and I can see why he's a character you had in mind for a while. Between this reveal and the sweet sweet snake lore (with bonus deep Velvet lore, even!) I'm very excited for what's to come this turn.

 

[jelloloaf]

[X] Plan: Prudent KISSing

Always use protection.

 

[spiderhellian]

Baldomare's Sacrament cost a Baldomare action which is way more valuable then a Velvet AP.

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We need a SH influence for a chance at the personal Sacrament, so any turn we do a Sacrament action also functionally requires a Baldomare AP. Admittedly one that can give bonuses elsewhere, too. Plus there's the extra Velve action required, which may mean longer before we get the Sacrament.

You're also definitely cocky on the DC, lol. If the next is DC 130 (+20 over prior) that's 12% chance of failure. With DC 150 that's 30%. 62% to succeed on both.

And all this is assuming we have a reroll, otherwise the last is a 50-50 flip. We've got good odds, but not certain ones. I definitely feel Baldomare's is likely safer.

(I did forget Learning applies though, that is nice.)

Calling it mechanically optimal is way overconfident.

 

[Solace2117]

Despite the fact I didn't vote for it and would have rather invested further in Axe glad we're finally going to heal Velvet's scar. Sure there's a very small chance of failure, but Velvet's past is the one major mystery about her character that's been hidden from us. Excited to see what is revealed and how it influences her character.

The DC for our personal SH sacrament will be incredibly high. Are we really sure we don't want to go for Baldomare's SH sacrament, which is likely to be easier? Not that I don't see the narrative advantage of doing our "own" sacrament, but it's basically doing new/original research rather than being taught by a master. Of course our personal SH sacrament is going to be harder (and costs an additional valuable Velvet AP).

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Look I understand and I get that it's more optimal to do Baldomare's and I'm sure it's great. She's a wonderful character and Ourladyofwires will I'm sure make it incredibly interesting. At the end of the day though, as long as the DC is reasonable I still want Velvet's personal SH. I loved the scene with alt Cadence and the full SH forks that the voters got to pick which history happened is one of my favorite posts of this quest. While I get we probably won't get another like it cause of how complicated it was, her personal SH sacrament is my absolute favorite. While I'll understand if everyone else decides to go Baldomare's, I get it with everything going on, I'm still going to fight for her personal sacrament.

 

[Shaper47]

Calling it mechanically optimal is way overconfident.

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Maybe but I don't think the DC will increase that high.

I doubt Baldomare's is especially safer, unknown risks are, well unknown. At least for the personal we can go in very well prepared.

Though as you did mention the SH influence gives bonuses elsewhere. Which I think your really underestimating. The SH influence used properly probably saves at least 1 Velvet AP.

 

[Venerable Ro]

Ah. Every now and then you and Venerable Ro will mention something that's just about to happen. Granted, you tend to reduce it into writing (although given how awesome these are, I'd change that phrase to enhance it into writing ), while Ro will just say it in a comment.

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Well they're a wonderful writer and I just tend to rave, so it's all good. Though I'll certainly take the compliment.

Just for the record though, what did I predict? Of course I definitely remember, but it is nice to be told how clever one is.

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

One of my favorite scenes from this entire quest came about due to Velvet's History-Striding. I want that immortalized and internalized in Sacrament.

I also just want to meet Forge Velvet again, her Alchemy has been so useful for us and I would like to thank her for that.

 

[Flaregamer82253]

I thank the Wolf none of you absolute snake kissers came up with a plan with the word "deep" or "long" or anything like that.

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I mean, now I HAVE to.

[] Plan French KISSing
-[] (AotL) Lantern (Explore Summit)
-[] (Forge) Forge 3 reagent
-[] (Knock) Explore the Summit
-[] (Winter) Summon a Risen
-[] (Social) FO Family
-[] DoA Sacrament x7

[] Plan Elopement
-[] (AotL) Lantern (Explore Summit)
-[] (Forge) Forge 3 reagent
-[] (Knock) Explore the Summit
-[] (Winter) Summon a Risen
-[] (Social) FO Friends
-[] DoA Sacrament x7

 

[spiderhellian]

Plan Elopement

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Hahahahaha this is clever

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

Hahahahaha this is clever

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I do not get it.

Random thought: What happens if Lantern 4 Celestia sees Luna before she sees Velvet? In a situation where Selene and Velvet are Moth 4, of course.

 

[spiderhellian]

I do not get it.

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We're skipping out on our family (FO) to go KISSing

Sounds like elopement to me!

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

We're skipping out on our family (FO) to go KISSing

Sounds like elopement to me!

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OHHHHHHHHHH

 

[Flaregamer82253]

I do not get it.

Random thought: What happens if Lantern 4 Celestia sees Luna before she sees Velvet? In a situation where Selene and Velvet are Moth 4, of course.

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[MOTH SKILL]: Selene will be able to retain her "Selene" guise, without raising any suspicion, for as long as she wishes. Her guise will remain undetected until she chooses to reveal herself.

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Most likely, this is a case where I'd more expect Luna's Moth to overcome Celestia's Lantern if they're at the same level.

...Actually, while we're talking theory, Luna's Moth realization COULD provide a way to avoid, or at least delay an extra level of the doom clock as the Manehatten expedition already proved she can take other guises beyond "Selene" as well. Why couldn't she take the guise of Velvet and do her commissioner job for a turn (or two?) as Velvet scrambles for her final prep for All In?

Just some stray thoughts...

 

[Limabot]

We need a SH influence for a chance at the personal Sacrament, so any turn we do a Sacrament action also functionally requires a Baldomare AP. Admittedly one that can give bonuses elsewhere, too. Plus there's the extra Velve action required, which may mean longer before we get the Sacrament.

You're also definitely cocky on the DC, lol. If the next is DC 130 (+20 over prior) that's 12% chance of failure. With DC 150 that's 30%. 62% to succeed on both.

And all this is assuming we have a reroll, otherwise the last is a 50-50 flip. We've got good odds, but not certain ones. I definitely feel Baldomare's is likely safer.

(I did forget Learning applies though, that is nice.)

Calling it mechanically optimal is way overconfident.

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By the way, how many points to a SH check does the current Max level influence bring? I personally don't remember, and I want to check if that was included in your chance estimates.

 

[spiderhellian]

By the way, how many points to a SH check does the current Max level influence bring? I personally don't remember, and I want to check if that was included in your chance estimates.

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It was.

We roll with learning 14) and SH knowledge (40) and influence (40). Total 94, as Shaper mentioned.

First DC was 110, with subsequent being "harder".

I imagine that as 130/150 (ending with something beyond any mortal capacity fits a Sacrament), though it could be 120/130 (I shudder to imagine it not involving round numbers).

 

[Shaper47]

...Actually, while we're talking theory, Luna's Moth realization COULD provide a way to avoid, or at least delay an extra level of the doom clock as the Manehatten expedition already proved she can take other guises beyond "Selene" as well.

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We already have a friend who can take our place in the Bureau and in front of Celestia.

By the way, how many points to a SH check does the current Max level influence bring? I personally don't remember, and I want to check if that was included in your chance estimates.

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+ 40 for Secret Histories Level 4 influence.

So 14 (Learning) + 40 (Level 4 SH) + 40 (Level 4 SH influence) = 94

Last was a DC of 110. It goes up but we're not sure how much, maybe like 5 or 10 additively I'm guessing.

 

[spiderhellian]

We already have a friend who can take our place in the Bureau and in front of Celestia.

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Huh.

@OurLadyOfWires Is this… is this an option?

What's a demi-goddess's Lantern level to Our Lady of Wires?

 

[Sveta08]

What's a demi-goddess's Lantern level to Our Lady of Wires?

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Dangerous thoughts that.

The Sun wants things, very simple and loud things. Things Our Lady can provide.
The Moon
A Culprit
An Excuse

 

[spiderhellian]

Dangerous thoughts that.

The Sun wants things, very simple and loud things. Things Our Lady can provide.
The Moon
A Culprit
An Excuse

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You're right!

So we just need to befriend Mareinette first, then I'm sure we can trust her implicitly.