Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

[Greymere]

But I also think that this is really our only chance to help her, short of ignoring Glory.

A place away from the constant reminders, a routine mystically enforced to keep her going.
And unless I've misinterpreted some stuff, she'll be somewhere that seems significantly less Wolf-y.

Is this a good way to help her? To solve all her problems? No, absolutely not.
But Velvet does not want to interact with "Real" Twilight, this is our only option.

One last attempt, and we even get something out of it.
A faithful student of our own.
A gift for Cadance.
And perhaps even a wielder for an element.

Have I gotten the formula right? The one that always seems to be the most palatable here? A moral choice with the best of intentions wrapped in the furthering of our goals?
Because if not then I'll repeat what I've said before, do what we need and do what you want.

Because why would you play if all you want to do is win?

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This would not help her. This isn't even an attempt at actually helping Twilight. This is just trying to get a replacement goldfish, without even the full informed consent of the goldfish in question or the person being goldfished. And as for the pragmatic choice, it isn't even that! It's just going to be an AP sink and cause narrative snarls and drama in a time where we're already pressed for AP and juggling a hundred plates, for a Confidant we don't need, for a Confidant we don't even actually want because, really, as far as I can tell, what the thread wants is Equestria Twilight. This may be her reflection, but it's not even the same person.

We're on the verge of Glory. We don't need to bother with alt-versions of could-have-beens that are just going to make this knife's edge we're walking even thinner. We need to focus on things like getting Sacraments, or befriending Names, acquiring artifacts, and/or finding a summoning site so we're not entirely reliant on Names for All In.

 

[Portec]

[X] Alright, WHERE is Stormchaser? (Look for your dear beloved)
[X] What is this "cellphone" all the kids are talking about? Why do you have one? And what is this "Internet" thing?
[X] Now that you can reach the city center, it is time to explore even beyond that. Map the roads, learn the rules, and seek the very end of this dream.

 

[Limabot]

Honestly, I think the real best thing to do is simply to accept that Velvet can't actually do anything to (directly) help Twilight anymore, and just accept that if she ever gets any better, it would be in the hooves of others; at most, Velvet can just give information that can help them make more informed decisions.

Kidnapping the original Twilight and trapping her in a world where not only her counterpart literally never had friends, not only will she never see her real family again, but she can't read or even talk about magic without being dismissed as insane, would not help.

This really feels like a case where one of Velvet's major character flaws (her paternalistic desire to override the will of others in the name of knowing better) is really being poked at, and it's now a decision as to whether she is able to stop herself or if she'll continue to let that line of thinking chip away at more and more of her morality.

 

[Steady Gaze]

So, I think there are some interesting moral principles at work here. In the trolley problem (if you're unfamiliar, it's a moral quandary where a trolley is going to run over some number of people, but if you flip a lever, it will go onto a different track and run over fewer people), there is a moral principle of noninterventionism, that goes, no matter how many people you would save by flipping the lever, it isn't your place to flip it, for the fates have decided that the trolley is going on its current track, and if you so much as breathe on the lever, you're responsible for everything that happens.

If you ask me, noninterventionism is mostly bunk (but there is a notion of "privacy" for lesser problems). We should look at the real results of our actions, and choose the one with the most utility. Not chicken out. Maybe something like that would apply in less dramatic circumstances, but we are (almost) the only pony who can do the things we can do, the only pony who can make the decisions we can make. We are a spymaster; we are expected to break our own state's laws (killing, murdering, lying, stealing) in her defense.

I already laid out the arguments for in my last post. I only ask, which world is a better world?

• As it stands: Twilight in our world is incalculably sad, and we have no means of helping her. Compared to what she used to have, she has almost nothing (being good at magic, Spike, Shining) to live for. Mirror Twilight is about to now be extremely sad and disappointed. As Pittauro pointed out, she used the word "insane" to describe her state before knowing her suspicions were real. She is just wired to pursue magic, no matter the world, and she needs someone to guide her in her studies.
• To me, our Twilight in the mirror world will be a wash. Does it matter that everyone here is a "stranger" if she never talks to anyone in her old world? Someone mentioned she might end up in a psych ward in this world, but I think that would be a good outcome, because she would actually be getting the care she needs. Meanwhile, Mirror Twilight would be unlocking her true life's purpose, instead of having it shown and then snatched away from her.

[X] Now that you can reach the city center, it is time to explore it properly. Check the stores, see the sights, and discover what wondrous things this world considers mundane.
[X] Now that you can reach the city center, it is time to explore even beyond that. Map the roads, learn the rules, and seek the very end of this dream.
[X] Apparently, they are not alicorns here. But they are still the highest authority. (Approach the Principals)
[X] They are young and impressionable. Thankfully, you are a responsible adult. (Hang out with Rarity and Fluttershy, your real-life confidantes)

 

[DelightedOne]

What?

I understand the implications of Whacky Amor not knocking on Twilight's door.

But please, let us not forget the actions of the Deacon do not have the same depth as the actions of the Prophet.

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Ah, forgot that happened. Thank you for the reminder.

 

[Nevermort]

Well then.

1 - You do not want to interact with Pony-Twilight, and the logistics of making the talk would involve third parties and things you cannot control such as Axe, and you do not want to interact with Pony-Twilight. So, not something you are willing to do.
Twilight and throwing her in a mockery-world she knows nothing about"? Yes, that is a valid interpretation.

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First of all @OurLadyOfWires sorry but I really don't understand Velvet's logic here. Velvet throwing Pony-Twilight into another dimension already counts like interacting with her. Or maybe interfering with her life is the more correct term? This willingness to potentially screw Twilight while unwilling to talk with her comes across as Velvet hating her, which should not be the case , unless I missed something major?

Personally I feel that we overcome Velvet self imposed Twilight ban after that narrow vote were we decided to talk with human Twilight. Even if you think otherwise talking with pony-Twilight by any measure is lesser interaction than switching her with alt persona. Or to put it in other terms, if Velvet is willing to exile her for her own good, then she should be willing to spare few minutes to talk with her too.

Granted Pony-Twilight absolutely refusing to talk with Velvet, or hearing us out and immediately running to tell everything to Celestia are all possibilities that Velvet would consider, but also I think it could be overcome simply by Velvet not revealing her identity? With her currently being human she would not even need any disguises. Imagine a strange, clearly non pony being attempting to contact Twilight, reaching toward her from nearly reflective surfaces with its worm like digits, offering a deal, an entirely new life... ahem.

Not to be distracted, the last issue was about difficultly of establishing contact, right? Velvet already shown that she can talk with Axe via Mirror. And you yourself said that to accomplish transfer Twilight need to be standing right before Foggy Mirror. So it looks to me like a time when we can talk. Even if for some reason only Axe can hear Velvet speaking she can pass her words to Twilight as they being said and Twilight words back.

Hell, if we want more drama, offer Twilight to restore her horn as alternative too. We never got to it during our last meeting. What would she choose between lost Magic and lost Family? If she chooses magic we can book time for ritual and conduct it without revealing Velvet identity. Just a mare in dark robes with face hidden by a cape and Moth induced darkness within it...

Okay it came out longer than I anticipated. I am not complaining, to be clear. Just feel that there are some more interesting narratives with Twilight that can be pursued.

Finally for the vote.

[X] Now that you can reach the city center, it is time to explore even beyond that. Map the roads, learn the rules, and seek the very end of this dream.
[X] They are young and impressionable. Thankfully, you are a responsible adult. (Hang out with Rarity and Fluttershy, your real-life confidantes)
[X] Apparently, they are not alicorns here. But they are still the highest authority. (Approach the Principals)

 

[Qwoptermain]

[X] Return home, with Diary and Frangiclave, and fulfill your bargain with the Daughter-of-Axes. (End the dream, and redistribute your remaining action points.)
[X] Alright, WHERE is Stormchaser? (Look for your dear beloved)
[X] Apparently, they are not alicorns here. But they are still the highest authority. (Approach the Principals).
[X] Now that you can reach the city center, it is time to explore even beyond that. Map the roads, learn the rules, and seek the very end of this dream
[X] They are young and impressionable. Thankfully, you are a responsible adult. (Hang out with Rarity and Fluttershy, your real-life confidantes)

 

[Greymere]

So, I think there are some interesting moral principles at work here. In the trolley problem (if you're unfamiliar, it's a moral quandary where a trolley is going to run over some number of people, but if you flip a lever, it will go onto a different track and run over fewer people), there is a moral principle of noninterventionism, that goes, no matter how many people you would save by flipping the lever, it isn't your place to flip it, for the fates have decided that the trolley is going on its current track, and if you so much as breathe on the lever, you're responsible for everything that happens.

If you ask me, noninterventionism is mostly bunk (but there is a notion of "privacy" for lesser problems). We should look at the real results of our actions, and choose the one with the most utility. Not chicken out. Maybe something like that would apply in less dramatic circumstances, but we are (almost) the only pony who can do the things we can do, the only pony who can make the decisions we can make. We are a spymaster; we are expected to break our own state's laws (killing, murdering, lying, stealing) in her defense.

I already laid out the arguments for in my last post. I only ask, which world is a better world?

• As it stands: Twilight in our world is incalculably sad, and we have no means of helping her. Compared to what she used to have, she has almost nothing (being good at magic, Spike, Shining) to live for. Mirror Twilight is about to now be extremely sad and disappointed. As Pittauro pointed out, she used the word "insane" to describe her state before knowing her suspicions were real. She is just wired to pursue magic, no matter the world, and she needs someone to guide her in her studies.
• To me, our Twilight in the mirror world will be a wash. Does it matter that everyone here is a "stranger" if she never talks to anyone in her old world? Someone mentioned she might end up in a psych ward in this world, but I think that would be a good outcome, because she would actually be getting the care she needs. Meanwhile, Mirror Twilight would be unlocking her true life's purpose, instead of having it shown and then snatched away from her.

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Firstly, this isn't just a case of "everyone around her would be a stranger". Literally everything would be different. She would be in a world with strangers wearing her dead family's names, a world entirely devoid of basically everything she ever knew or was familiar with, and a body that fundamentally isn't hers, all without any warning or consent, and possibly straight up coerced by force (because DoA is not good at people). None of these sound conductive to becoming more mentally stable to me. Secondly, would she actually be getting the care she needs? Because if Mirror-Twilight suddenly seems to start thinking that her parents are dead, her little brother (who never existed in this world) is dead, seems to have forgotten everything about everything, would she actually be getting treatment for her very real grief and trauma? Or would they be trying to treat a psychosis(? idk if this is the correct term) that doesn't actually exist, because none of the very real things that caused her trauma ever happened in the mirror world?

Edit:

First of all @OurLadyOfWires sorry but I really don't understand Velvet's logic here. Velvet throwing Pony-Twilight into another dimension already counts like interacting with her. Or maybe interfering with her life is the more correct term? This willingness to potentially screw Twilight while unwilling to talk with her comes across as Velvet hating her, which should not be the case , unless I missed something major?

Click to shrink...

Also yes, this is a good point imo. Velvet doesn't want to interact with Twilight even by proxy because she think she's done enough meddling, which only ever seemed to turn out badly, yet she's willing to permanently and forcibly isolate her in another dimension, which is very much meddling in her life (again)?

 

[Pittauro]

What?

I understand the implications of Whacky Amor not knocking on Twilight's door.

But please, let us not forget the actions of the Deacon do not have the same depth as the actions of the Prophet.

(Edit: hyperlink refuses to work, this is very weird. But here.)

Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

Mother. Noble. Cultist. Lady Velvet Covers is part of a cult. One that lurks unseen within Equestria, and that calls upon the powers not of Harmony or the Princesses, but of older things that seem to be imprinted on the very tapestry of the world. One that knows that the waking world is somehow...

forum.questionablequesting.com

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I COMPLETELY forgot that!

Someone mentioned she might end up in a psych ward in this world, but I think that would be a good outcome, because she would actually be getting the care she needs.

Click to shrink...

except if they get her to talk she'll talk about her "dead parents", her "dead brother", "her broken horn" and "the fact she's a pony and not a human".

So no, there's no scenario in which ending in a psych ward is GOOD for Twilight, because nobody will believe her about what she needs to be helped about.

Basically they'll gaslight her into her whole life having been a lie. How is THAT an improvement over what she currently has?!


Velvet can't interact with Twilight. fine.

Luna can sooth her dreams.

Soft Sweeps MIGHT be able to channel her pain in a constructive way.

Cadance took a step, and we never learned from her what came out of it, but presumably it wasn't nothing.

We're about to show Cadance we can heal unrecoverable wounds, and she has exactly TWO loved ones with such wounds, Twilight being one of them.

And if and when Daybreaker is dealt with, either before or after the All-In expedition (probably after it, either in an epilogue or quest continuation) CELESTIA will probably want to do something for Twilight too once she trusts herself with approaching her.

...so no. Twilight is in a very VERY bad situation now, but given a few months there ARE plenty chances for her to recover.

There will be NO SUCH CHANCE if we put her in a word where, even if people TRIED to help her (by trying to cure her insanity), they can't because they can't accept her story as true. They'll just think she's insane, maybe pump her full of antidepressants AND gaslight her that no, she imagined her whole life because she's obviously a human and not a unicorn and magic doesn't exist.




So no. I will NOT vote to FURTHER worsen Twilight's situation. I'll just have to hope we can maybe help EQG Twilight in the future.

If Axe will be fine bringing us back again, maybe we can visit again and teach Twilight enough so that she might continue her research on her own and maybe try to invent magitech.

Or maybe the SH Sacrament will give us another method of travel to this dimension.

Or maybe a Long-Hour Velvet will just be able to take EQG Twilight as her Name/student.

ANYTHING but this monstruosity people are trying to pass out as "being merciful".

 

[Flaregamer82253]

The more I think about it, the more I find that taking this Twilight with us is more beneficial than it isn't.

The moral argument is one thing, and I know people will disagree with me on this, but I stand firmly on the side that this is more beneficial for both Twilights than it harmful. I've explained my thoughts on EQG Twilight before, but Equestrian Twilight is a well that holds a great deal of poison.

She has no friends, she has no desire to pursue friends, she has no mentor/role model in Celestia to make proud, and this makes her a strong indication for the Wolf, with Soft Sweeps actively entreating her to her burgeoning cult. Half of her family are dead in Spike and her parents, the former of which she must blame herself for, and her brother has proven to her that he doesn't trust her, leaving only a broken trust. Cadance isn't enough to reach Twilight. She has no ability to use magic. And of course, Velvet Covers will not approach Twilight of her own volition.

We could give her her horn back, but we can't fix the deeper problem where she is surrounded by broken and poisoned pedestals. Twilight will not pursue these people, and won't want to.

Still, Twilight survives, she has not yet gone the way of dear Coelle.

There is a serious argument to be made that the best thing that can be done for Twilight is to wipe the slate clean and give her something entirely new without baggage. We don't know EQG Twilight's family situation, but it may be far more amenable than the one she has now. If Sunset Shimmer can give her history up for the EQG world and thrive, there is no reason to say Equestrian Teilight can't either.

You want a practical reason? Even if we have to move a few AP into EQG Twilight, she is an immediate confidant. She will absolutely have Lantern as a focus, and even if she didn't, that's a new AP to make into a 3rd scryer with a LV4 Lantern artifact immediately. This frees up a potential use for the whole of our other confidants and followers. Not to mention she can start learning on her own for a bit through Velvet's manuscripts. Even more, a confidant is a single leash away from being a minion we can pull into All In. And I would suspect she has a high chance of becoming a minion without it anyways. The benefits outweigh the costs in every practical sense in my mind.

 

[Greymere]

You want a practical reason? Even if we have to move a few AP into EQG Twilight, she is an immediate confidant. She will absolutely have Lantern as a focus, and even if she didn't, that's a new AP to make into a 3rd scryer with a LV4 Lantern artifact immediately. This frees up a potential use for the whole of our other confidants and followers. Not to mention she can start learning on her own for a bit through Velvet's manuscripts. Even more, a confidant is a single leash away from being a minion we can pull into All In. And I would suspect she has a high chance of becoming a minion without it anyways. The benefits outweigh the costs in every practical sense in my mind.

Click to shrink...

It's not even practical though. Those "few AP" into Mirror Twilight, and I suspect there would be more than just a few, could be spent on actually constructive actions, like getting Sacraments, instead of cleaning up after yet another grease fire we set ourselves. Or, for an even more relevant comparison, those "few AP" could be spent finding a summoning site and summoning Mares-in-the-Light, who not only are naturally Lantern 5/Edge 3 and can (presumably) perform the exact same kind of scrying duties even better than a hypothetical Lantern Mirror Twilight, but also don't need to be leashed to bring along in All In.

And I've already said my piece that throwing Twilight into a completely alien world in an alien body would not be constructive in the least for her mental health.

And, absent everything around Twilight herself, it also feels like a massive breach of trust in regards to Cadance and Shining Armor. Because Mirror-Twilight isn't Twilight. Not really. And we'd essentially be replacing someone they know and love with a stranger, and they will never actually get to know what really happened to Twilight, or why she suddenly changed overnight, or whether or not she managed to recover, or anything. Because Twilight will be gone.

If Velvet can actually find the backbone to talk to Twilight and offer this to her, and Twilight accepts it of her own will, then maybe. But that's not what would be happening here, is it?

(Edit: Also if Velvet ever finds the backbone to talk to Twilight, I think the better offer would be to heal her horn first before we start making offers of transporting her to a mirror world)

 

[Spacemurica]

[X] Alright, WHERE is Stormchaser? (Look for your dear beloved)
[X] Apparently, they are not alicorns here. But they are still the highest authority. (Approach the Principals)
[X] Now that you can reach the city center, it is time to explore it properly. Check the stores, see the sights, and discover what wondrous things this world considers mundane.
[X] Now that you can reach the city center, it is time to explore even beyond that. Map the roads, learn the rules, and seek the very end of this dream.

this Twilight vote is going to be really tense, isn't it?

 

[DelightedOne]

And, absent everything around Twilight herself, it also feels like a massive breach of trust in regards to Cadance and Shining Armor. Because Mirror-Twilight isn't Twilight. Not really. And we'd essentially be replacing someone they know and love with a stranger, and they will never actually get to know what really happened to Twilight, or why she suddenly changed overnight, or whether or not she managed to recover, or anything. Because Twilight will be gone.

Click to shrink...

That actually makes me think of another con for the Twilight switch: Cadance might notice that this is not Twilight and her first thought will be changeling(especially if she doesn't know how to do "Sunshine, sunshine, ladybugs awake") and considering it is Twilight things could get ugly real fast, like Celestia might get involved and human Twilight could say we brought her to Equestria. That is basically game over.

 

[Flaregamer82253]

Or, for an even more relevant comparison, those "few AP" could be spent finding a summoning site and summoning Mares-in-the-Light, who not only are naturally Lantern 5/Edge 3 and can (presumably) perform the exact same kind of scrying duties even better than a hypothetical Lantern Mirror Twilight, but also don't need to be leashed to bring along in All In.

Click to shrink...

I'm thinking that right now short-term benefits are more important than long-term fires.

Twilight into a completely alien world in an alien body would not be constructive in the least for her mental health.

Click to shrink...

We have different perspectives on this and I just don't see improvement in Equestrian Twilight's future with her situation, so I'll agree to disagree.

And, absent everything around Twilight herself, it also feels like a massive breach of trust in regards to Cadance and Shining Armor.

Click to shrink...

The problem is we've already done this multiple times. We pulled Shining Armor' leash multiple times over Twilight's own desires and regardless of his desires. It's not exactly like Shining or Cadance are putting extra effort into Teilight right now as it is...

 

[Biowolf]

[X] Alright, WHERE is Stormchaser? (Look for your dear beloved)
[X] Apparently, they are not alicorns here. But they are still the highest authority. (Approach the Principals).
[X] They are young and impressionable. Thankfully, you are a responsible adult. (Hang out with Rarity and Fluttershy, your real-life confidantes)

Friendship

 

[Greymere]

I'm thinking that right now short-term benefits are more important than long-term fires.

Click to shrink...

I'm not convinced that these fires would even be long term. Unless you think that teaching someone how an entirely new world works, how two different systems of magic work, adjusting to living in a pre-internet era without any of her family, adjusting to having an entirely different type of body, dealing with the blowback from some of those inconvenient facts that Velvet left out of her explanation, and generally covering for the massive change in personality and memory would all only have long-term impacts?

 

[Nevermort]

Velvet can't interact with Twilight. fine.
Luna can sooth her dreams.
Soft Sweeps MIGHT be able to channel her pain in a constructive way.
Cadance took a step, and we never learned from her what came out of it, but presumably it wasn't nothing.

Click to shrink...

It is questionable how much Luna's ability will help, we still have not seen it and it supposed to cover entirety of ponykind, so likely just a slight bonus to relevant rolls.
Wolf cult is not really improvement, although I don't mind it.
Cadance recently quite distracted.

I would not exclude possibility of Twilight rolling against dread every turn, which delays the whole thing conclusion. But with All-in expedition imminent I also expect for Twilight situation to come to conclusion sooner rather than later, or at least before the quest ends. Which likely would involve rolls too. Given Twilight abysmal lack so far I fully expect her to just straight up die.

Mirror Twilight is her mirror, so she will suffer the same fate too. She would be left by Velvet, in desperation will try some less than reliable approaches and would eventually fall into the same situation as pony Twilight, be it dying or being recruited in some very questionable cult.

That is not to say that I insist on switching them, I just think that worst case scenarios are bad in both cases. Be it pony-Twilight or human Twilight having some support inside Mirror can only help I think, so if we can gain more allies there it would be great. For example I remember Sunset having a way to pass messages between dimensions.

And, absent everything around Twilight herself, it also feels like a massive breach of trust in regards to Cadance and Shining Armor. Because Mirror-Twilight isn't Twilight. Not really. And we'd essentially be replacing someone they know and love with a stranger.

Click to shrink...

We have not told her about Master possession of Shining when he proposed to her. And we should not. Whats few more secrets between friends.

There will be NO SUCH CHANCE if we put her in a word where, even if people TRIED to help her (by trying to cure her insanity), they can't because they can't accept her story as true. They'll just think she's insane, maybe pump her full of antidepressants AND gaslight her that no, she imagined her whole life because she's obviously a human and not a unicorn and magic doesn't exist.

Click to shrink...

There is always a CHANCE
She can run from home, bump into Sunset, bond over being thrown out as students of Celestia, and start plotting Equestria conquest together

I'm thinking that right now short-term benefits are more important than long-term fires.

Click to shrink...

I can even suggest another short-term benefit.
@OurLadyOfWires does Twilight's Oak library big enough for three circle rituals ?

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

Yeah, bringing mirror Twilight over with the currently available methodology is a massive security risk that will probably damage relations with Cadence and Shining as well. Velvet is clearly not thinking this shit through all the way, especially in regards to how Equestria Twilight will fare in this world. You stupid horse, she doesn't have Secret Histories to seamlessly unlock her counter part's memories! She's not you, she can't effortlessly sublimate herself in her new environs!

A terrible idea all around.

 

[steampvnc1880]

I really wish that, instead of what we got, the result of interacting with Sci-Twi had been some kind of mental healing or catharsis on Velvet's part. That by slowly opening up to this slightly different Twilight, having some success in helping her, and seeing the drive and curiosity that drew her to Pony Twilight in the first place, she might have gained the conviction that there was still hope to help the Twilight that she hurt, and that it would be worthwhile. This would then open options with trying to interact with Pony Twilight when we get back with the goal of healing emotional and physical wounds.

 

[Earth-Destroyer]

I you did not want to bring Twilight over you should not have voted to take her actions. Getting a new Twilight was the only option that justifed the GM bothering to even offer it as an option.

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

The problem is we've already done this multiple times. We pulled Shining Armor' leash multiple times over Twilight's own desires and regardless of his desires. It's not exactly like Shining or Cadance are putting extra effort into Teilight right now as it is...

Click to shrink...

We have no idea how much effort Shining or Cadance are putting into Twilight of their own volition. We only know what Velvet knows, and for actions they take from our own votes. We're not omniscient.

Also, I really don't see the need for another Lantern-aspected Confidante, we already have Jade and the Baldomare and they do the job better. Actions spent making sure this Twilight can function are actions we could instead be taking towards Sacraments, or patching the massive gaping Forge hole in our Confidante list through socialing Rich or Applejack.

 

[steampvnc1880]

Getting a new Twilight was the only option that justifed the GM bothering to even offer it as an option.

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I don't understand why you would think this.

 

[Alan975]

If you ask me, noninterventionism is mostly bunk (but there is a notion of "privacy" for lesser problems).

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The trolley problem is always an interesting one, and the argument that I've been convinced of when it comes to similar scenarios is that not touching the lever is a choice all of its own.

Ones refusal to get involved does not absolve one of the consequences.

if Velvet is willing to exile her for her own good, then she should be willing to spare few minutes to talk with her too.

Click to shrink...

Ah, but Twilight does not want to talk to us either.

This isn't even an attempt at actually helping Twilight.

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It is! Did you not read?

No, no of cource its just a goldfish.

A neat little collectible to decorate our shelf, it's not as if I've been a staunch arguer in the past for voting as Velvet instead of meta-gaming.
There's also a small little fact that you seem to be missing.
We're trying to help two Twilights.

How would things go for the one that we've outright promised to help -And it is a promise, the exact word doesn't need to be used to count- if we ditch her here?

Additionally, this switch will help "real" Twilight, this world will be an improvement because here she'll less likely to die.

Or at least, only die. Far worse could be in store for her with the Wolf.

 

[Random Anon]

I you did not want to bring Twilight over you should not have voted to take her actions. Getting a new Twilight was the only option that justifed the GM bothering to even offer it as an option.

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Even if it was heavily insinuated, I'm sure a lot of people, myself included, didn't expect that the only possible choice following this mini quest would be "switch Twilights or don't".
If I had the choice to unvote the first Mirror Twilight vote and go for something else (or even lose the action), I would.

If we end up choosing to not switch the Twilights, I would like to at least tell Mirror Twilight the truth, or part of it.

Also, I've just realized that not Mirror Twilight is the Twilight Princess and, given the obvious similarities, I find it pretty appropriate/funny.

 

[Earth-Destroyer]

I don't understand why you would think this.

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This is a quest, not some random chat box. It takes the GM both time and energy to write up any option. By consequence every option has to matter, or it waste of the GM's personal time, and energy.

Voters blew every chance with Pony Twilight, despite the crystal clear signs the GM left. Twilight only matters now if their an entirely new Twilight, without the Voters fuckup's weighing down on Velvet.

 

[Greymere]

It is! Did you not read?

No, no of cource its just a goldfish.

A neat little collectible to decorate our shelf, it's not as if I've been a staunch arguer in the past for voting as Velvet instead of meta-gaming.
There's also a small little fact that you seem to be missing.
We're trying to help two Twilights.

How would things go for the one that we've outright promised to help -And it is a promise, the exact word doesn't need to be used to count- if we ditch her here?

Additionally, this switch will help "real" Twilight, this world will be an improvement because here she'll less likely to die.

Or at least, only die. Far worse could be in store for her with the Wolf.

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I did in fact read your post. I simply disagree with the premise that it would be at all helpful to Twilight. For reasons I have already mentioned. (Edit: You also didn't come off as particularly sincere in asserting that it would be helping Twilight, considering you immediately followed it up with snarking about whether or not you had followed "the formula")

If we wouldn't get "a Twilight" out of it, if we could only send Twilight to the mirror without taking her reflection with us, do you really think people would be so eager to do it? I don't. So yes, I do consider it a goldfish. It's about "getting a Twilight", and all the rationalizations for "no it would actually totally be better for her anyway" come afterward to try and justify it.

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

Without any SH she wouldn't even be able to bury herself in Mirror Twilight's memories to at least feel like the Mirror Parents are real. And she still won't have a Spike, just a mutt that reminds her of Spike. And she still won't have friends. Or effective therapy, since her problems of broken horn, dead family, and crippled magic (but not completely lost magic, I feel like people forget that she's still opening and closing doors with magic despite her injury), are all problems that a therapist would try to treat like a delusion. Like Sarah Conner at the beginning of Terminator 2.

 

[Pittauro]

The problem is we've already done this multiple times. We pulled Shining Armor' leash multiple times over Twilight's own desires and regardless of his desires. It's not exactly like Shining or Cadance are putting extra effort into Teilight right now as it is...

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the Leash CAN at least be justified. It's a bit like having your friend get a few drinks to go beyond his inhibition and be more honest (just a lot worse, admittedly).

Shining DID love Cadance. Cadance DID love Shining. We were fairly sure the thing holding Shining back were feeling of inadequacy Cadance didn't care about.

It was wrong, but not as wrong as stealing his sister and her sister-in-law and replacing her with a stranger.

Especially considering this will most likely NOT help that sister at all.

and... we don't KNOW what Cadance is doing with Twilight. We know she went. We know she did not tell us what happened. We know things didn't seem to get much better, BUT we're also about to tell Cadance about the potential horn-healing, and she's not stupid, she'll realize this is something that could help with Twilight.

And while VELVET is not willing to talk to Twilight, Cadance has no such restraint. Given some time Cadance WILL want to heal Twilight, though she might be willing to wait until the Daybreaker problem is solved and Luna is officially back.

There is always a CHANCE
She can run from home, bump into Sunset, bond over being thrown out as students of Celestia, and start plotting Equestria conquest together

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...I don't know what to say.

I suppose it's in some ways better than her current apathy?

 

[Limabot]

This is a quest, not some random chat box. It takes the GM both time and energy to write up any option. By consequence every option has to matter, or it waste of the GM's personal time, and energy.

Voters blew every chance with Pony Twilight, despite the crystal clear signs the GM left. Twilight only matters now if their an entirely new Twilight, without the Voters fuckup's weighing down on Velvet.

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To be fair, there were like 2-3 important die rolls prior to this current situation that would have left things in a much better place, so I wouldn't say it's entirely the fault of the player base.

 

[spiderhellian]

Twilight situation to come to conclusion

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The Twilight situation is at a conclusion. It's a very sad one and not one anyone seems very happy with, aside from those who would rather not spend any more time on her at all. But it does seem concluded.

Yeah, bringing mirror Twilight over with the currently available methodology is a massive security risk that will probably damage relations with Cadence and Shining as well. Velvet is clearly not thinking this shit through all the way, especially in regards to how Equestria Twilight will fare in this world. You stupid horse, she doesn't have Secret Histories to seamlessly unlock her counter part's memories! She's not you, she can't effortlessly sublimate herself in her new environs!

A terrible idea all around.

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Honestly, I don't see this at all.

If you're Shining or Cadance, and you see a Twilight who has given up on life and existence and you can't really help… having her back is a blessing. Even if she acts strangely, sometimes. I don't think you look too hard at it.

I really wish that, instead of what we got, the result of interacting with Sci-Twi had been some kind of mental healing or catharsis on Velvet's part. That by slowly opening up to this slightly different Twilight, having some success in helping her, and seeing the drive and curiosity that drew her to Pony Twilight in the first place, she might have gained the conviction that there was still hope to help the Twilight that she hurt, and that it would be worthwhile. This would then open options with trying to interact with Pony Twilight when we get back with the goal of healing emotional and physical wounds.

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We've got a lot of Twilight related wishes. But I don't think there's any world where it goes this way.