Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

[Flaregamer82253]

What is the current plan on the action refund looking like? Is it really that big a deal that the re-roll for SH is used when we have the SH influence up? (And are forge's redemption'd to full?) We'd have to do multiple SH challenges under the same month later anyway to avoid wasting SH influence...

I'm literally brand new so I dont know what the lantern artifact is important.

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A bit belated, but welcome to the quest! I'm a somewhat recent newbie myself, so feel free to join in. Here you will find riveting discussions on topics such as optimized daughter-maxing, the benefits and repercussions of cannibalism, how we're sort of seducing a married princess as a married mare while setting up our estranged younger brother with an actual snake, and the nature of a God of Hate that we accidentally our patron. Also, we see Twilight Sparkle in the corner of our eyes sometimes and go crazy because of it. It's fun here!

So to explain why we're hesitant about the SH re-roll being used, it's because the biggest thing we'd want to use it on is our personal SH Sacrament. We're currently 1/3 of the way through it, but the DC for the first one was already 110, and we've been told that the next one will be higher. Furthermore, we know that the SH Sacrament is dangerous, and we expect it to give us a serious malus on failure like Fascination, which will result in AP loss, or an HP injury when we are also trying to prepare for an Edge Sacrament with Biedde where we're likely to take damage. The only other thing we could do to take advantage of our SH influence is "search" for something, like high level lore books. Although I will say that we may want to use that last action to search for a 3 circle ritual site.

The Lantern 4 artifact is somewhat important because it is something that can be used to substitute for a lore level in rituals such as our Reflection of the Tapestry, our scrying ritual. This would allow any of our other confidants, such as Selene and her great general bonus, to scry as well. And we have a lot of things that we want to scry for right now while only having two dedicated scryers.

So far on action refund we have book search either for Heart/Forge or Moth, study lantern artifact or the badly suggested study Moth Book 5 idea.

Getting Heart books would set us up for Heart Level 4 (needed for depths of the church expedition). While Forge Books would set us up for Forge Level 5.

The idea of studying our Moth level 5 Book is because we have a free Aotl but ignores the fact we're going to be studying the Summit. Which is the kind of thing that probably requires a lantern Aotl.

Study the Lantern artifact means our confidents can use it for rituals to apply a lore Application bonus of Level 4. Which with Selene's +30 general bonus and our SH artifact would have her auto pass the scry ritual with a base roll bonus of +70 for the lantern check.

Selene has three actions a turn and Velvet can make a free reagent creation action to boost a lantern check even further.

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I'm a little confused. I'm pretty sure we're allowed to study 2 artifacts, 3 books, or 1 book and 1 artifact if I'm not mistaken. We should maximize our gain here by studying something relevant to us with the artifact like the Moth book. I think our AotL is better spent ensuring that both succeed, especially as the moth book has that -50 malus.

Although I'm becoming more partial to searching for Heart books or a consistent ritual site while we have the SH influence up. I need to think about it more.

 

[Spacemurica]

Well I am pretty sure I'm not going to vote for a Twilight option again, that vote was brutal.

Which is a shame since I am most curious about Harmony and the Harmony ending, as I think we have a pretty good idea on what the other endings would be like.

Also I for one did not feel like that last dream AP was wasted, knowing more about Harmony and Celestia is always a good thing in my mind, as they are still the dominant force in this world.

 

[AuthorTransient]

Now that Mareinette has suborned Spoiled Rich though, we could always ask Her for Heart lessons?

 

[Shaper47]

Now that Mareinette has suborned Spoiled Rich though, we could always ask Her for Heart lessons?

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She still a friend, not yet a Confidante.

Besides a single level 3 Heart scrap is trash.

We could get 4 Heart level 3 scraps with only 2 Velvet actions and 120 bits.

 

[Steady Gaze]

No high-schooler for you it seems.

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Ah… my heart.

I will say that this option is "safer" in that there is less chance of things getting worse, as is often the case with inaction; things will stay as they always were. (I mean, we should heed what the QM's said about suspicion and needing to sink AP into getting mirror Twilight acclimated.) But there is also less chance of things ending up (net) better than they were before.

I am really wondering how OurLadyOfWires will choose to write Velvet's inner thoughts on the decision. And will Velvet confide in Cadence about this? If so, that would be fascinating. Or will there be any fulfillment of people's expectations of Cadence wanting us to heal Twilight and Shining?

Regardless, we go ever onward.

I just did I think four days of nonstop reading?

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Welcome! I had a very similar experience when I found this work. Are you coming from the MLP side or the CS side, or both?

 

[Limabot]

SNIP

I am really wondering how OurLadyOfWires will choose to write Velvet's inner thoughts on the decision. And will Velvet confide in Cadence about this? If so, that would be fascinating. Or will there be any fulfillment of people's expectations of Cadence wanting us to heal Twilight and Shining?

Regardless, we go ever onward.

SNIP

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Given how any actual consideration for the original Twilight has been functionally absent during this dream, I assume it will be something along the lines of "Velvet nearly goes through with it, before her conscience stops her at the last second as she finally thinks about what it would do to her ex-friend, hastily has to explain why she can't go through with it to Mirror-Twilight, and feels bad the whole time".

As for the Cadence thing, it's very likely we'll be asked to help with Shining directly, though anything with Twilight will be much more complicated and distant. At most, we'll just hand Cadance an instruction manual and some Reagents before wishing her luck.

 

[Nevermort]

Given how any actual consideration for the original Twilight has been functionally absent during this dream, I assume it will be something along the lines of "Velvet nearly goes through with it, before her conscience stops her at the last second as she finally thinks about what it would do to her ex-friend, hastily has to explain why she can't go through with it to Mirror-Twilight, and feels bad the whole time".

As for the Cadence thing, it's very likely we'll be asked to help with Shining directly, though anything with Twilight will be much more complicated and distant. At most, we'll just hand Cadance an instruction manual and some Reagents before wishing her luck.

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We should tell Mirror Twilight that right now we don't have means to bring her with us, but later we surely could. I am sure that for Hour Velvet it would not be an issue.
Do a variation of

[] "Oh, Twilight. I'm so sorry. I don't have the power to free you yet, but I'll do everything I can. Just hold on. Your friends will come for you. You're not forgotten."

so Mirror world is proper reflection of the wake. Maybe scratch friends part as it would just leave Twilight confused.

 

[Greymere]

The plan is Spoiled Milk into minion by Mareinette, then use her for moth sacrament, then Mareinette Grail sacrament.

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Mareinette is still under debate. I for one have no interest in befriending the unrepentant child-eating monster and making ourselves more like her.

Now that Mareinette has suborned Spoiled Rich though, we could always ask Her for Heart lessons?

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Spoiled has one more step up the relationship ladder until she can be Moth Sacramented. Well technically two, but we can cheat and use the Leash.

 

[Nevermort]

Spoiled has one more step up the relationship ladder until she can be Moth Sacramented. Well technically two, but we can cheat and use the Leash.

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I remember that we balked at using Mareinette for finishing Riches befriending. To minimize Tiara exposure to Mareinette I think? It was one of the reasons why Mareinette was used to channel Grail influence this turn instead of finishing with Riches.

It should be done by Velvet herself as her social action and thus we are free to use Mareinette for something else.

 

[Greymere]

I remember that we balked at using Mareinette for finishing Riches befriending. To minimize Tiara exposure to Mareinette I think? It was one of the reasons why Mareinette was used to channel Grail influence this turn instead of finishing with Riches.

It should be done by Velvet herself as her social action and thus we are free to use Mareinette for something else.

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I'd still rather Mareinette do it and just like... idk. Tell her to go hang out with Spoiled when Tiara isn't around. If other social stuff comes up next turn, I could see the argument for Grail Influence then doing it with our free social, but otherwise I'd rather we save our free social action for people we intend to keep around.

Edit: Unrelated, but I'm hoping we find the Forge Name in the Malleary. A max Forge Influence would give us the scraps we'd need to start on our Forge Sacrament, and it'd give us a +40 roll to each Sacrament action besides.

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

The plan is Spoiled Milk into minion by Mareinette, then use her for moth sacrament, then Mareinette Grail sacrament.

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Or we could not go down the path of being a cannibalistic monster.

Hmm, thinking about it studying the Lantern 4 artifact could be useful if we wanted to speedrun to Moth level 6.

It hurts my efficiency driven soul but it possible.

Turn 21 - Study lantern 4 artifact

Turn 22 - Selene scry level 5 Moth Book x 3
-Read Moth Book level 5
-Baldomare scry level 6 Moth Book
-Axe and Velvet Expedition for level 6 Moth Book

Turn 23 - Baldomare SH influence
-Velvet Book Search for Moth Book level 5
-Get Moth Sacrament (also work on personal SH Sacrament)
-Expedition for Moth Books

Turn 24 - Baldomare lantern influence
-Read Moth Books and gain Moth level 6
-Also get Lantern Sacrament

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It'd suck if all the Moth Books are at different expedition sites.

What is the current plan on the action refund looking like? Is it really that big a deal that the re-roll for SH is used when we have the SH influence up? (And are forge's redemption'd to full?) We'd have to do multiple SH challenges under the same month later anyway to avoid wasting SH influence...

I'm literally brand new so I dont know what the lantern artifact is important.

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The dangers with wandering the Histories are not Wounds, for we switch bodies with other Velvet. The issues that might arise range from mental maluses to maybe getting lost in another history for a bit. Or the other Velvet fucking things up for us on this side.

I'm a little confused. I'm pretty sure we're allowed to study 2 artifacts, 3 books, or 1 book and 1 artifact if I'm not mistaken. We should maximize our gain here by studying something relevant to us with the artifact like the Moth book. I think our AotL is better spent ensuring that both succeed, especially as the moth book has that -50 malus.

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AotL can only be applied to one roll, so it can't boost both checks I'm afraid.

I remember that we balked at using Mareinette for finishing Riches befriending. To minimize Tiara exposure to Mareinette I think? It was one of the reasons why Mareinette was used to channel Grail influence this turn instead of finishing with Riches.

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Yeah, she was literally drooling on Tiara who was for some reason not falling for the Grail aura of pleasantness (I personally guess it is because Alukite Aura > Grail Aura when you are the object of an Alukite's hunger, but that's just a guess).

Edit: Unrelated, but I'm hoping we find the Forge Name in the Malleary. A max Forge Influence would give us the scraps we'd need to start on our Forge Sacrament, and it'd give us a +40 roll to each Sacrament action besides.

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Inb4 it's a Lionsmith Name and it punches us on sight due to Biedde

Really though guys, we'll probably need to see how the rest of the turn goes before we decide on what to do with our refunded AP. There's Mansus poking and Cadance talking and other big things that are liable to throw everything sideways

 

[Greymere]

Inb4 it's a Lionsmith Name and it punches us on sight due to Biedde

Really though guys, we'll probably need to see how the rest of the turn goes before we decide on what to do with our refunded AP. There's Mansus poking and Cadance talking and other big things that are liable to throw everything sideways

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God I hope so. Getting our Edge Sacrament from a Lionsmith Name would be so much cooler. Maybe we could even actually make friends with them, since Biedde's categorically impossible to befriend.

 

[Flaregamer82253]

AotL can only be applied to one roll, so it can't boost both checks I'm afraid.

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We do have a Lantern reroll though! The hope is that we can manage both between the AotL and the reroll.

 

[Shaper47]

It'd suck if all the Moth Books are at different expedition sites.

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It's still easily possible, especially with Selene having 3 AP.

Though I hope DoV gets more AP now that she's free.

Though it could be that the scrying works the same as a book search in context and we can just have Velvet buy some of the books or steal them.

 

[spiderhellian]

For what it's worth, we have good odds on Biedde's Edge sacrament next turn, if we have him summon an influence for us. I would love to see the Lionsmith edge name, but I think in absence of Mansus exploration it's just not going to happen.

…Wait, we could do that with the spare action! Two Shattered Stairways explorations, try to find the Name we've likely left behind?

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Not bringing Mareinette to All In seems like asking for a bad time. And we'll have more and bigger prices to pay to keep her around, soon...

 

[Greymere]

For what it's worth, we have good odds on Biedde's Edge sacrament next turn, if we have him summon an influence for us. I would love to see the Lionsmith edge name, but I think in absence of Mansus exploration it's just not going to happen.

…Wait, we could do that with the spare action! Two Shattered Stairways explorations, try to find the Name we've likely left behind?

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Stairways are probably going to have hurdles between finding the location and actually getting the goodies, since the Desert of Keys and the Ascent of Knives both had two hurdles iirc. We could clear out the Wastes though; maybe there'll be something that isn't super cursed to use, or transformed Mansus Expeditions to explore.

Not bringing Mareinette to All In seems like asking for a bad time. And we'll have more and bigger prices to pay to keep her around, soon...

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I don't really see why not bringing her specifically would be asking for a bad time? If we need a meatshield, we have other ways of getting them (e.g. lesser spirits). We'll probably want to bring a few lesser spirits along anyway, if only to act as artifact-carriers since one person can only wield one artifact at a time, and ideally we'd want all the artifacts going to members without the artifact Lores already (e.g. Baldomare wielding Frangiclave, DoA using the Lantern mirror, Selene bringing the Heart blanket, etc.).

Actually while I'm thinking about it, what's our current loadout for All In looking like? Let's see... I'm going to leave out Mareinette since that's up in the air (and I'd really rather not). Velvet levels are a guestimate of what we might be at by time we do All In.

Lantern: Lantern 6 (Baldomare), Lantern 5? (Velvet), Lantern 4 (artifact)
-Total Lantern levels = 15 (+75)
-Added per MitL summoned: 5 (+25)

Forge: Forge 4? (Velvet)
-Total Forge levels = 4 (+20)

Edge: Edge 5? (Velvet), Selene (Edge 4), DoA (Edge 3), Edge 3 (artifact)
-Total Edge levels = 15 (+75)
-Added per Windigo summoned: 5 (+25)
-Added per MitL summoned: 3 (+15)
-Will likely be under Biedde's Influence (+40 to Edge)

Winter: Winter 4? (Velvet), Selene (Winter 4), Winter 4 (artifact)
-Total Winter levels = 12 (+60)
-Added per Windigo summoned: 5 (+25)

Heart: Heart 4? (Velvet), Heart 3 (artifact)
-Total Heart levels = 7 (+35)

Grail: Grail 4? (Velvet)
-Total Grail levels = 4 (+20)

Moth: Moth 5? (Velvet), Moth 4 (Selene)
-Total Moth levels = 9 (+45)

Knock: Knock 5 (Velvet), Knock 6 (DoA), Knock 4 (Selene), Knock 6? (artifact?)
-Total Knock levels: 21 (+105)

Secret Histories: Secret Histories 5 (Velvet), Secret Histories 6 (Baldomare), Secret Histories 3 (artifact)
-Total Secret History levels: 14 (+70)


So in summary, our weakest points are Forge, Heart, and Grail, which makes sense since these are the Lores that have neither a Name not named Mareinette nor lesser spirits that we could summon for, and no Selene to help. Heart and Grail could be resolved fairly easily even without befriending Mareinette by having her channel a Heart Influence (+40, for a total of +75) while we Call an Incarnadescence (+40, lets us bring Rarity even at Grail 4 for another +20, total of +80). There are also likely Grail spirits in the depths of the Ruined Church that we could summon for even more Grail. Who knows if there are any Heart spirits left since the Woods got burned, but maybe there's a Heart/Edge or Heart/Winter Wolf-spirit hanging out in the ruins of the Temple or something; but in general if there are any Heart spirits left they're probably in the Wastes.

I've already mentioned my desire to scry for a Level 6+ Moth artifact to hide our help hide our Lore levels for longer, which would add another +30 to Moth for a total of +75. We also have a Moth 3 artifact in our inventory that we could study at some point to add another +15, which would total to +90 w/ both artifacts.

Being able to befriend the Forge Name for the Forge 6 boost would be helpful, but in the absence of that we could have them just channel a Forge Influence to bring the Forge bonus up to +60. Maybe there will also be a lesser Forge spirit in the Malleary, who knows. Still not great, but maybe we'll find (or go look for) a nice Forge artifact somewhere.

Secret Histories, Knock, and Lantern are of basically no concern, since we'll have the Names specialized in those Lores as well as artifacts to balance the equation, and they'll presumably be able to channel Influences to add even further to those bonuses since All In doesn't actually take any AP from anyone. Plus we can summon MitLs to boost Lantern if we feel like we need more (or just need more artifact-users).

Winter doesn't have a Name, but we can summon Windigos to boost the roll by quite a bit, and they would also be able to act as bruisers for us in case of combat.

 

[Nevermort]

I'd still rather Mareinette do it and just like... idk. Tell her to go hang out with Spoiled when Tiara isn't around. If other social stuff comes up next turn, I could see the argument for Grail Influence then doing it with our free social, but otherwise I'd rather we save our free social action for people we intend to keep around.

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Velvet does not know about issues with Tiara in character and we probably can't micromanage so much. Maybe if we asked Rarity or Luna to look out for Tiara at the same but there are likely better uses for their time. Leash Filthy Rich and tell him to spend time with Tiara, while Mareinette works on his wife?
I would still prefer Velvet doing it if at all possible.

So in summary, our weakest points are Forge, Heart, and Grail, which makes sense since these are the Lores that have neither a Name not named Mareinette nor lesser spirits that we could summon for, and no Selene to help. Heart and Grail could be resolved fairly easily even without befriending Mareinette by having her channel a Heart Influence (+40, for a total of +75) while we Call an Incarnadescence (+40, lets us bring Rarity even at Grail 4 for another +20, total of +80). There are also likely Grail spirits in the depths of the Ruined Church that we could summon for even more Grail. Who knows if there are any Heart spirits left since the Woods got burned, but maybe there's a Heart/Edge or Heart/Winter Wolf-spirit hanging out in the ruins of the Temple or something; but in general if there are any Heart spirits left they're probably in the Wastes.

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I don't like our Moth and Grail levels since they are the ones most needed for stealth approach, plus whatever is needed to disarm magic alarms.
We can get Grail servants if we finally complete Ruined Church expedition. Grail/Moth even. We would need Heart influence to pass first hurdle but we should have Mareinette cast Heart influence on Velvet to gain two Heart scraps at some point regardless. Less likely but it may contain something that would allow us an alternative route of befriending Mareinette too, as it was her home for a long time. Or Grail artifact to help with forge redemption. Even free Grail influence would be useful.

 

[Greymere]

I really hope we find the time to do the Tower before we do All In, since it's pretty likely we'll be getting a SH Sacrament next turn. I know it's probably Moon-related and thus not really relevant, but I want to see whats in there! Maybe even the SH Heirloom, seeing as it's where the SH Sacrament "barrier" is.

 

[spiderhellian]

I don't really see why not bringing her specifically would be asking for a bad time?

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Genuine question?

1) She's the best combatant (maybe second after Luna) we can bring, and the best tank.
2) She's useful. Heart is our weakest lore, Grail also weak because we cant use the DoA expedition bonus. She crushes both those, in addiction to her +40 base. Sure we can possibly find summons to make up for it, but no we do not have those now, and planning on them feels foolish.
3) I don't like leaving the Monster who explicitly can break her bindings at any time at our backs/home when we go All In. 100% seems like it's asking for trouble, and a dramatic moment that has a 7-part omake series about it.

Stairways are probably going to have hurdles between finding the location and actually getting the goodies, since the Desert of Keys and the Ascent of Knives both had two hurdles iirc. We could clear out the Wastes though; maybe there'll be something that isn't super cursed to use, or transformed Mansus Expeditions to explore.

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Sure, but we're pretty overleveles for it now, don't you think? Plus two influences? If we're exploring I'd like to find that Name, and I feel the stairways are our best bet.

 

[Greymere]

Okay. So. Having slept on the question of "what to do with the refunded AP" and having spent maybe too much time thinking about hypothetical next-turn plans...

I think it would be a good idea to take advantage of our SH Influence to search for a permanent summoning site. It'll probably end up being an expedition, but that's perfectly fine considering we're about to get DoA perma-summoned. Couple reasons for that:

Firstly, a permanent summoning site is pretty much one of the first two things I would want Selene to scry if we did successfully study the Lantern artifact. Having the ability to summon lesser spirits will likely be important for All In, since they're one of the few ways we can boost our Lore bonuses on-demand, either through their own innate Lore levels or by acting as artifact-wielders. I do still want to scry a Lore-concealing artifact, but we can do that ourselves next turn.

Secondly, being able to summon things without suspicion means that we would be able to summon MitLs who, as Lantern spirits, should presumably also be able to cast RotT. And if we get to keep Frangiclave, we wouldn't even have to do it ourselves; Jade would be able to do it herself at a pretty high success chance if she's borrowing the Edge 3 artifact and Frangiclave (presumably Knock 6, based on Cultsim) Lore levels, and Luna with the Lantern 4 artifact would also be able to do it. This means we would still end up with a better scrying capacity, though on a bit of a delay since we'd have to actually 'obtain' the site first.

Sure, but we're pretty overleveles for it now, don't you think? Plus two influences? If we're exploring I'd like to find that Name, and I feel the stairways are our best bet.

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We still get scraps and stuff whether we're overleveled or not; it might even give us the last Moth scrap we need without having to read the book. And I don't even think that the Forge Name is in the Stairways tbh, I think they're going to be in the Malleary.

But mostly, right now, I want to try and find out what lesser spirits are still around to work with. We know that the Moth and Heart spirits used to be in the Woods, and I'd like to know if there are new Heart and Moth spirits (presumably Wolf-influenced) to replace them, or if we're going to have to work around their lack. Forge is also a problem, but we're going to be exploring the Malleary this turn. If we don't find something Forge-aspected in there, whether the Name or a lesser spirit, I will be very surprised.

Edit:

1) She's the best combatant (maybe second after Luna) we can bring, and the best tank.
2) She's useful. Heart is our weakest lore, Grail also weak because we cant use the DoA expedition bonus. She crushes both those, in addiction to her +40 base. Sure we can possibly find summons to make up for it, but no we do not have those now, and planning on them feels foolish.
3) I don't like leaving the Monster who explicitly can break her bindings at any time at our backs/home when we go All In. 100% seems like it's asking for trouble, and a dramatic moment that has a 7-part omake series about it.

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Tbh, I feel like the first two aren't huge issues. We're going to have to bring quite a few lesser spirits along anyway, if we want to take full advantage of the artifact bonuses, and we do have access to a powerful combat summon that also boosts one of our not-as-great Lores (Winter). Having a tank would be useful, yes, but I don't think it's worth the cost of becoming more like the child-eating monster. As for the second, I already pointed out that both of those can be alleviated fairly straightforwardly. A Heart Influence from Mareinette brings us up to a total of +70/+75 when including the Heartifact's bonus, which means we'll be rolling a +120/+125 when combined with the DoA's +50 specialty bonus. And Grail can also be solved in a similar way via Calling of Influence, which gives us an extra +40 while also enabling us to bring a Grail 4 Rarity; plus, like, I know we don't have Grail summons yet, but I think we have a pretty good idea of where they are, don't you?

As for the third... I don't really see why she would do anything while we're gone. For whatever reason, Mareinette genuinely wants our favor, to the point where she is going out of her way to do things that will benefit us (see: Dancing With Death mitigation, dealing with post-attack suspicion). Even if she realizes we're going for Glory, which she shouldn't seeing as only Baldomare actually realizes that there's a way to break the seal, why would she intentionally piss off the soon-to-be-god? There's also the fact that... she's not actually going to be left completely alone at our house. Because, if you recall, Biedde explicitly cannot come with us. I don't think Mareinette's going to be chowing down on our kids while the combat-specialized Name who's guarding our house 24/7 is there.

 

[Nevermort]

Genuine question?

1) She's the best combatant (maybe second after Luna) we can bring, and the best tank.
2) She's useful. Heart is our weakest lore, Grail also weak because we cant use the DoA expedition bonus. She crushes both those, in addiction to her +40 base. Sure we can possibly find summons to make up for it, but no we do not have those now, and planning on them feels foolish.
3) I don't like leaving the Monster who explicitly can break her bindings at any time at our backs/home when we go All In. 100% seems like it's asking for trouble, and a dramatic moment that has a 7-part omake series about it.


Sure, but we're pretty overleveles for it now, don't you think? Plus two influences? If we're exploring I'd like to find that Name, and I feel the stairways are our best bet.

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There is no point in missing multiple opportunities due to moral considerations, only to then resort to cannibalism. We made our bed, time to lie in it.

Most dangerous part of All-in is Celestia. I'd rather focus on helping Luna with dealing with her first. And if it is impossible then see if we can see if we can somehow keep her busy during All-in.

Mareinette being tank would not help. Both Celestia and Luna have deal damage to all ponies in range attacks. Celestia have close to citywide range. Mareinette surviving it does not mean that we would survive it too. One of the reason I want to deal with Celestia first, since Canterlot would not make it through serious confrontation.

And if we don't want Mareinette behind our back, then find her task she would be busy with far enough from Ponyville? Some far away dungeon. Rarity's commission. Other things pony don't return from until turn ends.

 

[spiderhellian]

As for the third... I don't really see why she would do anything while we're gone. For whatever reason, Mareinette genuinely wants our favor, to the point where she is going out of her way to do things that will benefit us (see: Dancing With Death mitigation, dealing with post-attack suspicion). Even if she realizes we're going for Glory, which she shouldn't seeing as only Baldomare actually realizes that there's a way to break the seal, why would she intentionally piss off the soon-to-be-god?

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Damn I might need to write another Omake. Because I think you're totally misunderstanding her perspective. Let me see if I can explain my thinking without storifying it.

1) I expect Mareinette will have a sense when we're going off to fulfill this ultimate and massive desire of ours. She's the Monster of Grail, that's in her turf. Would surprise me narratively.
2) She was an honoured guest, who we did not honour. She gave us gifts, and received none in return. Now we're going off to All In, and we considered trusting her and rejected it.

Yes, she would like our favour! She would like a friend! She would like to be respected! But actions do speak so so loudly. And if we show her we're not going to deliver that, why should she stick around?
3) Similar for why piss off a god. Why not, when you're ever so thirsty! And when that God explicitly doesn't trust you, and seems inclined to shackle you at best or unmake you at worst? Genuinely, in her position, if you can't stop the ascent (or don't want to) why on earth wouldn't you finally finally FINALLY drink your fill before you're gone?

Because, if you recall, Biedde explicitly cannot come with us. I don't think Mareinette's going to be chowing down on our kids while the combat-specialized Name who's guarding our house 24/7 is there.

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Yeah, we've been told pretty clearly that trusting Biedde is a dangerous path to follow. I simply don't trust him at this!

There is no point in missing multiple opportunities due to moral considerations, only to then resort to cannibalism. We made our bed, time to lie in it.

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Nah. We always have choices and options in front of us. I can and will argue we should take certain ones, that's most of what we all do here!

Most dangerous part of All-in is Celestia. I'd rather focus on helping Luna with dealing with her first. And if it is impossible then see if we can see if we can somehow keep her busy during All-in.

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You remember that this (probably) involves Discord, right? I hope you don't think him so minor a threat as ro be ignored?

 

[Cochimetl]

We can't leave Mareinette behind unsupervised. We can't take Biedde with us to All-In.
The obvious solution seems to be to have Biedde keep watch over Mareinette.

 

[Pittauro]

How so?

My Math put it as Velvet able to get to Level 6 in Moth by end turn 24. And that's just with what we know for sure works for level 5 Moth scraps.

How's that unrealistic?

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We'd need to find enough lvl >5 books AND artifacts, study them with all the required APs necessary, all in 3 turns or so? I don't think we can find that many high ranked books and artifacts, or that we can afford them.

And even if we can, I think it might just be better to get multiple sacraments instead.

IF we can get the Moth 7 Artifact it MIGHT be doable, but I still doubt it. and a lvl 7 Artifact is likely to require a really expensive expedition to get too, and we're about to have many expenses to deal with.

The plan is Spoiled Milk into minion by Mareinette, then use her for moth sacrament, then Mareinette Grail sacrament.

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the plan does not really include Mareinette grail. It never has.

EVEN if we wanted to do that (and many are STRONGLY against it), we're just not at high enough grail yet, and it's doubtful we'll get there in time for All In.

What is the current plan on the action refund looking like? Is it really that big a deal that the re-roll for SH is used when we have the SH influence up? (And are forge's redemption'd to full?) We'd have to do multiple SH challenges under the same month later anyway to avoid wasting SH influence...

I'm literally brand new so I dont know what the lantern artifact is important.

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DC for the SH Sacrament was I think 110 last time, and it has been implied it will go up (no idea by how much).

Let us assume next roll is DC 120.

We roll

[SH Sacrament – First Step, cd 110]

[Roll: 61 + 14 (Learning) + 40 (Secret Histories Level 4) = 115]

[Success]



[But did you learn anything from it?, cd 100]

[Roll: 25 72 + 14 (Learning) + 40 (Knock Level 4) = 116]

[Knock re-roll used]

[Success]

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learning +14, SH +40. so +54.

Even with a DC of 110 that's a 110-54= 56 minimum roll required, so 44% chance. Kinda low-ish.

Current general idea seems to be to have the SH influence, the reroll ready, AND maybe to do Baldomare first (1 Baldomare and one Velvet actions required) so we'd raise the SH bonus to +50 instead.

Ideally we also want rerolls available for the secondary roll that seems to give us a chance at a lore scrap.

The thread has historically been very risk averse as far as roll risk goes. Sometimes with good reason, sometimes to their detriment. I think there's some sentiment to Steppes fleeting opportunity. Most of the talk has been towards studying the lantern artifact for the reason Shaper mentioned, as well as the scraps to get closer to the lantern sacrament. Others have suggested scrying for a level 7 book to complete Baldomare's friendship quest.

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it helps that we still have the AotL AND Lantern Reroll, and that an action gives us TWO Artifacts to study, AND we still have a Winter 4 artifact we can study too.

We don't really know how GOOD lvl 4 artifacts are, but the lvl 3 we studied thus far had pretty good effects. Even ignoring the value for rituals (mostly lantern one, We don't currently need Winter), the effect itself could be pretty valuable.

SH 3 gives us +5 to +15 on study rolls. Heartifact helps healing. Edge 3 helps us escape from combat if we're in danger, which is useless until it's life-saving.

...oh, and also we might be able to study the Frangiclave maybe. We don't know yet.

The sacrament is still on the table, but people are worried about the unknown cd. The influence gives it a good chance, but like I said, the thread is very risk averse on average and it's labeled as a dangerous action.

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less than 50% (44%), unless you expect the DC to go DOWN. so yeah, I'm not sure I'd call it a GOOD chance.

A bit belated, but welcome to the quest! I'm a somewhat recent newbie myself, so feel free to join in. Here you will find riveting discussions on topics such as optimized daughter-maxing, the benefits and repercussions of cannibalism, how we're sort of seducing a married princess as a married mare while setting up our estranged younger brother with an actual snake, and the nature of a God of Hate that we accidentally our patron. Also, we see Twilight Sparkle in the corner of our eyes sometimes and go crazy because of it. It's fun here!

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we also had to leave SV due to... well, partially GRAILY problems, partially other things.

Although I will say that we may want to use that last action to search for a 3 circle ritual site.

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Definitely an option worth considering. With that and the Lantern (and maybe frangiclave knock) Artifacts we could start summoning multiple Mares in the Light after all!

I'm a little confused. I'm pretty sure we're allowed to study 2 artifacts, 3 books, or 1 book and 1 artifact if I'm not mistaken. We should maximize our gain here by studying something relevant to us with the artifact like the Moth book. I think our AotL is better spent ensuring that both succeed, especially as the moth book has that -50 malus.

Although I'm becoming more partial to searching for Heart books or a consistent ritual site while we have the SH influence up. I need to think about it more.

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Unless we're planning to do the Moth sacrament exactly next turn I'd rather go for efficiency, so 2 artifacts.

Lantern 4 and either Frangiclave (Knock 6? Knock 7? That's if Axe doesn't keep it or it's not destroyed in the process of freeing her) or Winter 4

I think it would be a good idea to take advantage of our SH Influence to search for a permanent summoning site. It'll probably end up being an expedition, but that's perfectly fine considering we're about to get DoA perma-summoned. Couple reasons for that:

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actually... do we want to search for it, or SCRY for it? Both are viable ways, though scrying doesn't benefit from the influence (but SHOULD be more effective than a search).

 

[spiderhellian]

We can't leave Mareinette behind unsupervised. We can't take Biedde with us to All-In.
The obvious solution seems to be to have Biedde keep watch over Mareinette.

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We…

We had a whole scene, a thousand words, telling us that Biedde is hiding something from us. That he's playing other games and has other desires.

I take it as saying — That we shouldn't trust him!

I don't think those other games and hidden desires are hidden from Mareinette. And when he's told us it's the thing we don't know that kills us, and we don't know so much about him, I don't want to trust him with this!!'

He is dangerous because, despite all this, you don't know what he is hiding. You don't know why he is doing any of this.

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I am here to keep my employer safe."

He says that.

And you immediately know he is lying.

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"You aren't even trying to hide it," you say out loud, towards the darkness of the train cabin.

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You still don't know what game he is playing, but his latest move was to confirm to you that he is indeed hiding something.

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"It is the thing that you don't know that kills you," he says.

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[Greymere]

1) I expect Mareinette will have a sense when we're going off to fulfill this ultimate and massive desire of ours. She's the Monster of Grail, that's in her turf. Would surprise me narratively.

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Yes, she's a creature of desire. But what exactly is she going to be sensing from us? The desire for Glory, aka the thing that literally every adept who has ever crossed the Branding Door has? The thing that adepts still possessed even after the Tricuspid was sealed, which drove them to seek any method of doing so and failed?

Why would she have any reason to believe that Velvet is actually correct in thinking she knows how to claim Glory, as opposed to the countless adepts who thought the same thing and still ultimately failed?

2) She was an honoured guest, who we did not honour. She gave us gifts, and received none in return. Now we're going off to All In, and we considered trusting her and rejected it.

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Go give her an artifact then. There, gift given and no cannibalism and alukite-taint needed.

Yeah, we've been told pretty clearly that trusting Biedde is a dangerous path to follow. I simply don't trust him at this!

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If you don't trust Biedde to do what's basically his one singular job directly enabled by his unique character trait, I don't really know what to tell you. Sitting around doing nothing while an alukite chows down on your employer's children doesn't sound much like fulfilling your orders of "Guard her home" to me.

At that point I'd rather just let her loose away from us, go do All-In, then solve the problem of the alukite wandering around the Wake via divine power, several friendly Names (one of which is a specialized scryer), and angry alicorns in the epilogue.

Because, and I can't emphasize this enough, I do not want Velvet to become like an unrepentant child-eating monster via the Lore that's most closely related to the child-eating, nor do I want her to consider the unrepentant child-eating monster a genuine friend.

actually... do we want to search for it, or SCRY for it? Both are viable ways, though scrying doesn't benefit from the influence (but SHOULD be more effective than a search).

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I'm fine w/ either tbh.

 

[spiderhellian]

But what exactly is she going to be sensing from us? The desire for Glory, aka the thing that literally every adept who has ever crossed the Branding Door has?

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I think desire probably has a different taste when it's about to be imminently fulfilled! Really, leaving aside details, I dont think the Names will necessarily know the details of what we're going to do, but I do think they'll have a sense that we're doing it. Maybe only when we're climbing, maybe when we go all in, I just don't think from a narrative PoV they'll be totally out of the loop. This is the finale!

Go give her an artifact then. There, gift given and no cannibalism and alukite-taint needed.

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Yes that's an option as one of the ways we can give her the bare minimum necessary to sustain her interest. It doesn't pay her respect and it doesn't befriend her. We can give her a million artefacts and not get that, it's pretty clear.

If you don't trust Biedde to do what's basically his one singular job directly enabled by his unique character trait, I don't really know what to tell you. Sitting around doing nothing while an alukite chows down on your employer's children doesn't sound much like fulfilling your orders of "Guard her home" to me.

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Protection is his job, yes, and he failed once already! In a very suspicious way! Explicitly suspicious!

Maybe he'll stop Mareinette. Eventually. After collateral damage. Like he would have stopped that Thug, sure, eventually.

 

[Rafuki22]

The obvious solution seems to be to have Biedde keep watch over Mareinette.

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Again, you are making assumptions, his job was to guard us and look at what happened during Copper attack, you are letting your dislike for Mareinette cloud your judgement.

Why would she have any reason to believe that Velvet is actually correct in thinking she knows how to claim Glory, as opposed to the countless adepts who thought the same thing and still ultimately failed?

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Is this going to be a Master situation again? Underestimanting a Name again?

Go give her an artifact then. There, gift given and no cannibalism and alukite-taint needed.

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That's not befriending her.

Anyway, i hope that we atleast tell Sci-Twi the truth about how close we are to a tyranical regime in Equestria + Twilight hopeless situation, she will still be incredibly betrayed, but it is the lest that we should do.

I wonder if we could write Lore books before departing and letting them here for Human Twilight and Velvet?

 

[Greymere]

learning +14, SH +40. so +54.

Even with a DC of 110 that's a 110-54= 56 minimum roll required, so 44% chance. Kinda low-ish.

Current general idea seems to be to have the SH influence, the reroll ready, AND maybe to do Baldomare first (1 Baldomare and one Velvet actions required) so we'd raise the SH bonus to +50 instead.

Ideally we also want rerolls available for the secondary roll that seems to give us a chance at a lore scrap.

...

less than 50% (44%), unless you expect the DC to go DOWN. so yeah, I'm not sure I'd call it a GOOD chance.

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You're forgetting about the +40 from the Influence, if we're talking about our chances this turn. Tbh I expect the DCs to be something like 110/130/150 for the first, second, and third actions.

Unless we're planning to do the Moth sacrament exactly next turn I'd rather go for efficiency, so 2 artifacts.

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We wouldn't be able to do the Moth Sacrament next turn even if we wanted to. We need to have everything set up for the Sacrament before the turn start, unless it's reached by something like a Name lesson, so we need Moth 4 4/4 and Spoiled at Close Friend (to Leash into Confidant) prior to turn start on the turn we do the Moth Sacrament.

That's not befriending her.

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Good. I don't want to.

 

[Nevermort]

We wouldn't be able to do the Moth Sacrament next turn even if we wanted to. We need to have everything set up for the Sacrament before the turn start, unless it's reached by something like a Name lesson, so we need Moth 4 4/4 and Spoiled at Close Friend (to Leash into Confidant) prior to turn start on the turn we do the Moth Sacrament.

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Filthy Rich is close friend. If we want to do Moth sacrament next turn, or don't want to spend social action on Spoiled Rich we can Moth him.