Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

[ses]

I think we should explore the Ashen Wastes when we reach Velvet's Phase instead of the Stairways.

Fully exploring a Stairways location requires three Mansus actions. One for the SH roll to discover "Place Description 0/2" and two more hurdle crossing actions. It took 2 mansus actions plus the free explore we got from crossing the door for Place of Sharpness, and it took 3 mansus actions total when we explored Valley of Keys. Spending our single mansus action on an explore in the stairways will be a single Knock+SH roll and nothing else unlocked.

Doing an Explore the Wastes action actually has us roll against whatever hurdle we find immediately, then fully explore the zone we unlock. Plus we can explore two zones if we double the CD.

[Exploring the Blank Plains]

[Roll: 21 + 13 (Diplomacy) + 30 (WINTER, level 3) + 20 (SECRET HISTORIES bonus) + 40 (I HAVE BEEN HERE BEFORE) = 124

[SH Re-roll: 85 + 13 (Diplomacy) + 30 (WINTER, level 3) + 20 (SECRET HISTORIES bonus) + 40 (I HAVE BEEN HERE BEFORE) = 188]

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Blank Plains exploration was Winter Knowledge+SH Application... the Ashen Wastes are probably Edge Knowledge+SH Application and we'll be wearing an Edge Influence. We have a good chance of getting a double explore in the Wastes this turn. Plus we'll get the zones explored immediately. Yes the Wolf zones probably do not have benefits we'd like to use compared to the stairways but we're not getting anything from the Stairways this turn anyway and I feel we've been taught painful lessons about always exploring the highest zone possible instead of exhaustively searching the bottom and moving upwards (we missed out on the anti-changeling summon and kicked off half the plot because of the lack of it, then we almost died because we took a high mansus expedition instead of doing completionism on the lower floors)

Since we're not going to commit a Velvet AP to mansus exploration no matter what, we should just explore the wastes for now.

Also, in terms of actual locations we're likely to find if we do so.... Eclipse is exploring a "Maze" in an attempt to climb towards the blank door, which we learned about in the Unknown Kadath update. That sounds like a Wastes location that can use Lantern! They unlocked that location specifically by sleeping in front of a Lantern 6 artifact, but we can probably find it with exploration and SH and influences. Maybe even get that Lantern scrap we're missing for Sacrament that would save us a critical Baldomare action on turn 24, and allow SH Influence for personal SH as well as Lantern Sacrament on turn 24 as her first befriended double action! Also we might run into an Eclipse member and actually gain info or an in with them instead of a brick wall from the cold approach!

 

[Shaper47]

Excuse me, what monopoly?

No, seriously. Only one I could think off is organized crime monopoly, but while prominent in the criminal underworld I doubt Uncle actually achieved it and it certainly not covered by Royal Writ.

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Nobles, well high nobles of which the Velvet family are get certain privileges that come along with their nobility.

Like how the Bluebloods got to choose the taxes for cities.

A lot of the wealth of a noble family comes from these royal privileges. Which grant them advantages and stuff like monopolies.

 

[Nevermort]

Nobles, well high nobles of which the Velvet family are get certain privileges that come along with their nobility.

Like how the Bluebloods got to choose the taxes for cities.

A lot of the wealth of a noble family comes from these royal privileges. Which grant them advantages and stuff like monopolies.

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Perhaps in general, yes. But we never saw those advantages and what exactly they entailed as Hill exiled Velvet to Ponyville. If anything we or at least Pride may get access to them as Hill would not be declared dead for some time yet. And in the end they always were meant to be removed at some point as Hill is not immortal. I think it only puts us closer to the decision making process.

Also if Focus on her work for Rarity wins I would argue for taking Uncle FO over her lesson, as her career would not be in any danger and we may get a better picture of our family affairs through interaction with Steppes.

 

[Greymere]

So, how many people are we sending. Just cause they can doesn't mean some evidence won't be left behind. It's still a risk that isn't needed.

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Up to three. Exact details of who and what artifacts would have to wait until an actual expedition vote (if it wins), but I feel the most likely combination to be DoA+Mareinette+Biedde.

Btw, I am going to add in Recalibrate-Moth for Cherenkolt, in case we want to go full Moth on Velvet Hill instead of bringing Mareinette. It won't affect anything else if we decide not to bring him, but I figured it'd be good to have the option.

 

[spiderhellian]

"Yes, of course. But not in the way you are thinking. You see, Cadance, the ponies that I truly harmed with my decision were the family heirs, those who were situated to inherit the title of Noble as family heads once the current heads passed away. But until the current heads perish, absolutely nothing will change… Absolutely nothing will change officially, that is. But noble families are nothing if not protective of their future interests."

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Huh. That is a decent catch.

Killing a head of a Noble family does come with… consequences, these days.

Lord it does feel risky. I agree it reminds me of the Ruined Church — yes we're strong, but we're being pretty brazen about risks and consequences.

Seems kind of locked in, though. Do I vote for the plan I strongly dislike, knowing it leaves room open for Girldinner…? Dilemmas dilemmas (and probably not).

 

[ses]

I don't think we can cut Mareinette, seeing as she can roll Grail plus +60 specialty bonus to gather information and remove guards from their posts nonlethally. She's basically singlehandedly going to do almost all the work of keeping this quiet and efficient.

Lord it does feel risky. I agree it reminds me of the Ruined Church — yes we're strong, but we're being pretty brazen about risks and consequences.

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The comparison that should be being made is the Assault on Copper, not the Ruined Church. Seeing as Velvet isn't going personally into a dangerous location with 2 health.

Especially since unlike a Mansus Expedition, an Assault mission inherently comes with up to three days of nothing but info-gathering and scouting! Unlike Ruined Church where we committed to run into dangerous hurdles with no information! Rereading the Assault chapter the preparatory scouting was very thorough in gaining actual information about what obstacles were present and what approaches were viable and how they could work to match their strengths against enemy weakness. Ruined Church was nothing but a commitment to roll whatever Lore check got thrown out.

 

[Shaper47]

Especially since unlike a Mansus Expedition, an Assault mission inherently comes with up to three days of nothing but info-gathering and scouting!

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It doesn't really matter if you know your putting your hoof into a saw machine if you do it anyways.

For the Mansus Expedition we could turn back for this the group sent can't. Even in the event you underestimated the dangers and difficulties.

 

[spiderhellian]

The comparison that should be being made is the Assault on Copper, not the Ruined Church. Seeing as Velvet isn't going personally into a dangerous location with 2 health.

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Yeah, I agree it's probably not quite as risky as Ruined Church. There is scouting… but an expedition does boil down to a series of dice rolls, all the same.

I think it's the vibe that gets to me, the taking on of an unnecessary risk. Whatever the possible rewards are.

Because however strong our squad, it is a risk. And it is not necessary.

 

[Nevermort]

Yeah, I agree it's probably not quite as risky as Ruined Church. There is scouting… but an expedition does boil down to a series of dice rolls, all the same.

I think it's the vibe that gets to me, the taking on of an unnecessary risk. Whatever the possible rewards are.

Because however strong our squad, it is a risk. And it is not necessary.

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If three Names can't do it we can as well forget about All-in expedition. As for necessity no expedition is actually necessary and currently we need bits more than we need artifacts so it is in fact one of more useful expeditions available. We are currently choosing it over Tall Tale expedition for example.

 

[ses]

Also if Focus on her work for Rarity wins I would argue for taking Uncle FO over her lesson, as her career would not be in any danger and we may get a better picture of our family affairs through interaction with Steppes.

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I want to study the moth artifact over teaching rarity, but teaching Rarity this turn is valuable because we are very likely to have her Commission two turns in a row once her career is secured via this turn's Focus, and we can't teach her on a Commission turn. Teaching Rarity probably increases her per turn income by about 10 bits but it also increases her Commission income too, probably by 10ish bits per commission or more, so that's 50 bits-ish we'd be missing out on just delaying the training.

But +15 to Moth seems... important. Both for this turn and for expeditions next turn. And it gets us a 100 bit sellable artifact for next turn as well as providing some safety net for the other artifact study rolls.

I am also incredibly sad at the lack of Tall Tale.

 

[Shaper47]

But +15 to Moth seems... important. Both for this turn and for expeditions next turn.

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Sigh, no it doesn't work like that.

Artifacts can not be used on the turn they are studied.

 

[Nevermort]

If we take Mareinette with us then our Grail would be higher than Moth, and guards challenge usually either Moth or Grail. Even if we get Moth artifact it would only reach Grail levels. Why break in when Mareinete can just walk in and invite Hill for the dinner.

 

[Greymere]

I don't think we can cut Mareinette, seeing as she can roll Grail plus +60 specialty bonus to gather information and remove guards from their posts nonlethally. She's basically singlehandedly going to do almost all the work of keeping this quiet and efficient.

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At the same time, one of the info-gathering rolls for Copper was Moth wasn't it? And while picking up valuables or whatever along the way would be nice, ultimately what we'd really want is for the team to slip in and out without making any noise, which is quite a Mothy thing. DoA (w/ Moth 3 artifact) + Biedde + Moth-Cherenkolt would be a total of 9 Moth levels and roll a base of +95.

Edit: Actually that gives me a thought. @OurLadyOfWires, if we assault Hill (with the intention of kidnapping), how flexible can be with our approach? Like, breaking and entering is a classic, but could we also say direct our team toward an extremely social approach (e.g. luring him out of his home to somewhere more vulnerable)? Everyone knows the good lady Mareinette is a perfectly respectable mare who can do no wrong after all.

Cause if we can go all in on the social approach, Mareinette + Grail-Cherenkolt would be a pretty good combination with a total of 9 Grail levels and Mareinette's +60 social specialty.

 

[des-pair-2]

[X] Plan: Cannibalism is Cringe

What convinced me to vote for this is getting our hoofs dirty action. I wish for Velvet to participate in the raid on the Changelings.

Edit:

[X] Plan: Graven Commissioner and Commander

 

[ses]

What convinced me to vote for this is getting our hoofs dirty action. I wish for Velvet to participate in the raid on the Changelings.

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Graven Commissioner is a plan that's literally the same as Devour the Sky except it gets our hoofs dirty

At the same time, one of the info-gathering rolls for Copper was Moth wasn't it? And while picking up valuables or whatever along the way would be nice, ultimately what we'd really want is for the team to slip in and out without making any noise, which is quite a Mothy thing. DoA (w/ Moth 3 artifact) + Biedde + Moth-Cherenkolt would be a total of 9 Moth levels and roll a base of +95.

Edit: Actually that gives me a thought. @OurLadyOfWires, if we assault Hill (with the intention of kidnapping), how flexible can be with our approach? Like, breaking and entering is a classic, but could we also say direct our team toward an extremely social approach (e.g. luring him out of his home to somewhere more vulnerable)? Everyone knows the good lady Mareinette is a perfectly respectable mare who can do no wrong after all.

Cause if we can go all in on the social approach, Mareinette + Grail-Cherenkolt would be a pretty good combination with a total of 9 Grail levels and Mareinette's +60 social specialty.

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Taking Cherenkolt kinda locks us into doubling down on one Lore ahead of time, while Biedde/Axe+Artifact/Mareinette lets us be very strong in both Moth and Grail simultaneously, which is pretty nice since the Assault on Copper showed that Name teams can split into a Grail team of Mareinette solo and a Moth/Knock team and both make their rolls simultaneously. I fully expect the "seduce the guards" trope to be in effect while the others steal everything that isn't nailed down. Seems like the plan that maximizes our objectives of "no suspicion" plus "Hill" plus "loot". Plus it lets the team be flexible in choosing their approach after they get the info from their preparatory scouting.

And yes, during the Assault on Copper the team split up and did a Grail check, a SH check, and a Moth check during the same Day 2 and all gained different information. Being able to replicate that (sans SH) is probably valuable.

 

[des-pair-2]

Graven Commissioner is a plan that's literally the same as Devour the Sky except it gets our hoofs dirty

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Well, it's not literally the same. It doesn't have Cherenkolt recalibrating for Moth, and it has summoning a Torn RIsen in it, but I get your point. I'll vote for that Plan as well.

 

[Greymere]

Well, it's not literally the same. It doesn't have Cherenkolt recalibrating for Moth, and it has summoning a Torn RIsen in it, but I get your point. I'll vote for that Plan as well.

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Devouring the Sky is also summoning a Torn Risen btw, I'm just leaving it as a forced action for Velvet phase since digging up a body presumably could fail (and thus be forced to Leash someone instead to meet the Follower AP debt).

 

[ses]

So obviously I've been rolling Biedde simulated duels all week and worrying about how much of a huge risk we're taking.

I just rolled 4 losses in a row, followed by a duel where Velvet dealt 3 wounds to Biedde in the first round (Nat 100 for 94 overflow plus autowound and 10 existing overflow from the first roll of the round). Lmao.

EDIT: followed by a 2nd duel with a nat100 on the first roll dealing 2 wounds. These fights are extremely swingy to put it mildly.

 

[dcoconeo]

[X] Plan: Cannibalism is Cringe

No buying problems when we have more than enough to deal with already, thanks.

 

[Nevermort]

Sure, eating Spoiled is no problems at all.
Not accepting Mareinette invitation on the other hand is nothing but problems.
Although if people want we can prepare assassination attempt on her instead? Best time would be during invitation actually. Invite her to a nice secluded location with Spoiled, Hill or another victim ready and then declare that she is the one on menu today. Order to trigger second rebirth, then ambush her with preassembled hit squad.
I think people often forget that she would be severely weakened after triggering second rebirth and we have Axe who is not only free from her bindings, but also would be very invested in putting Mareinette down.

 

[DelightedOne]

Sure, eating Spoiled is no problems at all.
Not accepting Mareinette invitation on the other hand is nothing but problems.
Although if people want we can prepare assassination attempt on her instead? Best time would be during invitation actually. Invite her to a nice secluded location with Spoiled, Hill or another victim ready and then declare that she is the one on menu today. Order to trigger second rebirth, then ambush her with preassembled hit squad.
I think people often forget that she would be severely weakened after triggering second rebirth and we have Axe who is not only free from her bindings, but also would be very invested in putting Mareinette down.

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...

Why did everything you just said make sense?

I would have prefered to have Neighnia around to confirm she is dead(no way she doesn't have something like Velvet's dance with death) and for the extra power, but I think Baldomare works for that.

And of course if certain people are interested, we could Wolf her. She wouldn't be expecting Velvet to do it if the dinner is set and we are already at the end game so a fourth Son wouldn't do much for long.

 

[ses]

She, per QM, has more than enough health to tank Biedde for however long it would take her to skedaddle if we tried to kill her. Axe does not have a chance. We would probably need to do something like summon multiple Windigos, and Mareinette certainly notices us making preparations to kill her seeing as she's the Name of Desire and doesn't let us lure her anywhere.

Our only options are "Make an enemy of a full Name and likely lose the quest", "Commit to All-In before Turn 25 and hope we lucksack as hard as we did Ruined Church", or "Befriend her". We might have been able to stretch it for another 3 turns to have until turn 29 to prepare if we had taken the Cadance mood and had the timer fall behind the Celestia doom clock, but we didn't take that vote (and are investing selene AP into defusing the celestia doom clock, which is at odds with committing to all in in the next 4 turns as well)

We do not have the option to Wolf her unless we get offered the option. We do not have a "Kill Name" button freely available at all times. It's something Evil has to offer us, and it requires a certain resonance that we can't just call on command.

 

[Solace2117]

The comparison that should be being made is the Assault on Copper, not the Ruined Church. Seeing as Velvet isn't going personally into a dangerous location with 2 health.

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I've compared it to the Ruined church not because it's inherently dangerous to Velvet, but because we all inherently underestimated consequences that came from it. Did it suck we failed, sure, the issue was what happened after where we were attacked and lost an entire turn of action cause we picked something on a whim and the consequences of outside factors blew up in our face.
No one is saying we can't easily succeed in the expedition though bad rolls can always trip things up, even in the Copper expedition we failed to retrieve the documents. Things don't happen in a vacuum. A couple turns ago the the leader of the Bureau was attacked. Now her father is kidnapped.
Things don't happen in a vacuum. A roll could be failed and we could leave a clue behind. Even if we don't it, Velvet's father being kidnapped means her brother will probably start asking her about it. If he starts Silky could as well. In Canterlot it'll definitely be noticed, potentially by Celestia which is more attention we don't need.
And ultimately I keep coming back to for what. We don't need it for Mareinette's sacrament. People just think it's a cool idea. I get it, there's some poetic irony to it and people think it's interesting. It's just another potential time sink when we have other things to worry about.

 

[DelightedOne]

She, per QM, has more than enough health to tank Biedde for however long it would take her to skedaddle if we tried to kill her.

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When was that?

We do not have the option to Wolf her unless we get offered the option. We do not have a "Kill Name" button freely available at all times. It's something Evil has to offer us, and it requires a certain resonance that we can't just call on command.

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Of course we don't have one available at all times, it must have some narrative behind it and the best time is when they think we will do what they want. The Master learned that the hard way.

That is actually a precedent to using the Wolf's power to kill Names.

 

[Solace2117]

Of course we don't have one available at all times, it must have some narrative behind it and the best time is when they think we will do what they want. The Master learned that the hard way.

That is actually a precedent to using the Wolf's power to kill Names.

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We could use the Wolf because we had a reasonable way to get them to follow us into the right spot in the Manse. I doubt we'll be able to trick Mareinette like that.

 

[DelightedOne]

We could use the Wolf because we had a reasonable way to get them to follow us into the right spot in the Manse. I doubt we'll be able to trick Mareinette like that.

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Are you refering to the fact the Master was the Will of the Woods and thus would survive if we didn't destroy the Woods too or are you implying Regrettable Actions can only be done in the Mansus?

And the tricking part is preparing the dinner then bam, she is the dinner instead.

 

[Darkday]

[X] Plan: Devouring the Sky
-[x] (Free) Sell Edge 3 artifact
-[x] (Detectives) Follow Up: Dodge City
-[x] (Constables) Follow Up: Tall Tale
-[X] (Commissioner) Introduce Lore: Forge
-[x] (Director) Lantern
-[x] (Mareinette) Honored Guest: Spoiled Rich & Filthy Rich
-[x] (Biedde) Channel an Edge Influence
-[x] (Baldomare) Channel a Lantern Influence
-[X] (Cherenkolt-Free) Recalibrate: Moth
-[x] (Selene) Soothe the night
-[X] (Selene) Dreamwalking: Spy on Windy Flakes
-[x] (Rarity) Focus on her work
-[X] Assault an Opponent: Velvet Hill
-[X] Perform the Reflection of the Tapestry
--[x] Target: Easiest Level 7 book to acquire
--[X] At Jade's old house
-[X] Build a prison
-[X] Obtain a dead body
-[X] Perform the Attention of the Laws (Edge) (x2)
-[X] Cover your bases (-2 Follower AP, +1 Velvet AP)

 

[Nevermort]

She, per QM, has more than enough health to tank Biedde for however long it would take her to skedaddle if we tried to kill her. Axe does not have a chance. We would probably need to do something like summon multiple Windigos, and Mareinette certainly notices us making preparations to kill her seeing as she's the Name of Desire and doesn't let us lure her anywhere.

Our only options are "Make an enemy of a full Name and likely lose the quest", "Commit to All-In before Turn 25 and hope we lucksack as hard as we did Ruined Church", or "Befriend her". We might have been able to stretch it for another 3 turns to have until turn 29 to prepare if we had taken the Cadance mood and had the timer fall behind the Celestia doom clock, but we didn't take that vote (and are investing selene AP into defusing the celestia doom clock, which is at odds with committing to all in in the next 4 turns as well)

We do not have the option to Wolf her unless we get offered the option. We do not have a "Kill Name" button freely available at all times. It's something Evil has to offer us, and it requires a certain resonance that we can't just call on command.

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Biedde alone sure. I can even make a guess that she may have trait that allows her to restore health points by dealing damage to her enemies. Against Biedde, Luna, DoA and Cherenkolt in Edge mode? I very much doubt that she can defeat that, when DoA would also buff herself with Edge influence. Her running away is possibility, but this is why we will need Baldomare ready to scry her location so we won't lose her in pursuit. Luna can fly and DoA outright teleports and can take others with her, they are much more mobile than Mareinette.

As for Mareinette ability to sense desire I think dinner invitation is the best moment simply because it is sure to provoke whirlwind of emotions in Velvet. Desire for power, disgust with herself, hate for Mareinette for making such terms and putting her into this situation. If we ourself can't decide what we would do, then how Mareinette could? After all this is just theorizing at this point.

We could use the Wolf because we had a reasonable way to get them to follow us into the right spot in the Manse. I doubt we'll be able to trick Mareinette like that.

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Invite her for dinner, order to trigger rebirth, see if her new form is eatable. Ask Wolf for cooking tips. Not that it is preferable over just sending Names at her, but still. We did not need Wolf direct presence when we shattered door after all. Velvet can just channel Wolf if moment is appropriate.

 

[DelightedOne]

when DoA would also buff herself with Edge influence.

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Cherenkolt might be able to call an Edge influence for himself too, DoA can do it with Edge 3 so it makes sense.

 

[Solace2117]

[X] Plan: Prisoner Chomping
[X] Plan: Let's Not Kidnap a Prominent Figure From Canterlot
-[X] (Detectives) Follow Up: Dodge City
-[X] (Constables) Follow Up: Tall Tale
-[X] (Commissioner) Get your Hoofs Dirty
-[X] (Director) Lantern
-[X] (Mareinette) Honored Guest: Spoiled Rich & Filthy Rich
-[X] (Biedde) Channel an Edge Influence
-[X] (Baldomare) Channel a Lantern Influence
-[X] (Selene) Soothe the night
-[X] (Rarity) Focus on her work
-[X] (Free) Sell Edge 3 artifact
-[X] Needs must. Ask somepony to procure you a dead body from the local cemetery.
-[X] (Free) Summon a Risen.
-[X] There really is no other way. Ask somepony to get you a live prisoner; specifically, a foal peddler/predator. (You have no place to keep live prisoners)
-[X] Perform the Reflection of the Tapestry x 2
--[X] Target: Easiest Level 7 book to acquire
--[X] Target: Easiest Level 6 Forge Reagent to acquire
-[X] Build a prison (Cherenkolt)
-[X] Edge AotL x 2
-[X] Cover your Bases x 2

[X] Plan: Cannibalism is Cringe

Velvet: I've fixed my major flaws and moved on from my past to focus on Glory.
Thread: Lets take an unnecessary risk and kidnap Velvet Hill so we don't feel as guilty about cannibalism.

Not a huge fan of Cannibalism is Cringe, but eh. We also don't have to do her sacrament immediately though I get the worry that we'll keep putting it off.

Are you refering to the fact the Master was the Will of the Woods and thus would survive if we didn't destroy the Woods too or are you implying Regrettable Actions can only be done in the Mansus?

And the tricking part is preparing the dinner then bam, she is the dinner instead.

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Real question, have there been any RA options outside the Manse. The only one I can remember is the Master and we had to go into the Manse to do it. I mean we likely can, but I don't think I've seen it yet. Even if we can is it really worth crossing that threshold into being more Wolf to end Mareinette.