Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

[Sveta08]

I thnik you shouldn't double post.

Edit: Or that isn't a thing here apparently?

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Eh, it's fairly rare, usually used when the two topics too.
It might be because when two topics are so diametricly opposed that including them in one message means, thanks to the single available Like comment we can make on comments, it won't accurately reflect what people are reading from it.

So, probably don't, unless ya kinda have to kinda thing? Or if it's been like... a week?

 

[Solace2117]

This is just guesswork. There is police and guards if nobles feel the need for protection. They also apparently weren't intimidated when it was Velvet who was brutally attacked, but now they would be worried? Well fuck them, it would be totally reasonable to say that it is not Bureau job.
Pride may need to return to Canterlot at least for a time, so also not a problem. Sure we can take some actions to turn such things to our advantage but if we don't have actions to spare then we don't. Problems of such level on Velvet's radar only if she wishes for them to be there.

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And your assumption that it'll have no repercussions that Velvet will have to deal with or that it won't make things more difficult seems like wishful thinking. We know it will cause an uproar and gossip and fear. We know there will be unknown consequences. We know it could destabilize our family. That could mean opportunities, but also risks and time sinks.
Ourladyofwires has constantly forced us to deal with the consequences of our actions both good and ill. I don't see why this would be any different.

 

[Alan975]

snip

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So all of the bad options are possible here apparently, likely even with how you say it. I can make up consequences for the other options too, dosn't mean that they're a big deal.

Shit happens, We've got no indication that this expedition will go worse than any other.

 

[Nevermort]

And your assumption that it'll have no repercussions that Velvet will have to deal with or that it won't make things more difficult seems like wishful thinking. We know it will cause an uproar and gossip and fear. We know there will be unknown consequences. We know it could destabilize our family. That could mean opportunities, but also risks and time sinks.
Ourladyofwires has constantly forced us to deal with the consequences of our actions both good and ill. I don't see why this would be any different.

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We are not forced to take Fleeting Opportunities. My guess would be one Pride FO and some action to calm nobles, later more likely from constables or Velvet commissioner action. Even if we decide to take them remember that we constantly spend actions on gaining bits, even plan to have Jade be busy study low level artifacts only to them sell them. Gaining some bits now with possibility that we may need to pay fro them with few actions later is reasonable. Plus I think it would depend on how well we complete our task and with multiple Name we have decent chance to just pass through and have everyone convinced by Mareinette that Hill went on extended business trip.

My problem is that you seem to believe Mareinette would be ignorant. Or that we could shanghai our intent until the last moment and make it work out. An action that risks everything for what looks like nearly no benefit.

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Moth beats Grail. Velvet can one night come to the decision, pass instructions to DoA , make herself forget them and go to dinner unaware. You can argue that Velvet's Moth is too low, and I agree that it is in no way guaranteed but not something impossible. We caught Master by surprise after all.And DoA extends us safety net, if anything goes wrong she can take our family and teleport on other side of Equestria, then get back to the fighting.
And good deeds needs no benefit, but Edge Lore scraps are the minimum. Mareinette also have her heirloom with her that she gave for Velvet's Influence. DoA now have Frangiclave. Baldomare have her own heirloom I think. Getting lvl 7 artifact is almost the same as befriending the Name in effect. We did not got Moth's one only because we used Wolf to kill him.

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

DoA only have +10 for social tasks and you think she can find criminal without talking or interrogating anyone even once? Her being bad with words and ponies also specifically written on her page

Also narrative weight matters. Velvet's decision process matters. Always taking lesser evil road without taking risks or making hard stance will surely lead us somewhere good. /s

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I imagine DoA's method of hunting down someone appropriate will involve a lot less talking and a lot more trespassing looking for shady shit, yes.

I mean narratively picking Hills is Velvet going, "fuck it, I know this is wrong but I want it," here. No thoughts of even trying to mitigate the wrongness, just going full tilt for it. I'd rather Velvet have some reluctance about eating people.

So all of the bad options are possible here apparently, likely even with how you say it. I can make up consequences for the other options too, dosn't mean that they're a big deal.

Shit happens, We've got no indication that this expedition will go worse than any other.

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I mean the Administrative panic, Familial freak-outs, and such are all outcomes of Hills vanishing per word of QM. How smoothly he vanishes doesn't change the fact that he vanishes, leading to such inevitable fallout.

 

[Solace2117]

So all of the bad options are possible here apparently, likely even with how you say it. I can make up consequences for the other options too, dosn't mean that they're a big deal.

Shit happens, We've got no indication that this expedition will go worse than any other.

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There will be an uproar in the noble community for the authorities to "do something" because "we could be next". The administration of the family will go into disarray for months or even "the foreseeable future". You have NO idea how the documentation stands when it comes to Hill's last will and testament. And then, of course, there's the present issue that "Noble titles die with the current head".

You have not heard of any noble head dying since the Princess' decree so, ironically, your family will be the test subject for what happens then if Hills dies.

So, uh, a big clump of "administrative problems" coupled with "gossip and fear in Canterlot", together with a good serving of "unknown" as always.

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I mean if you think this could be less problematic or the same as some random criminal disappearing okay. Bringing up concerns about potential consequences isn't "making shit up". We're literally voting to disappear a noble from the capital. Sure ever action can have consequences, but some actions cause greater ripples in the world then others. Killing a Name, killing a ruler, or even just killing a noble has a greater ripple effect then killing someone random. Hell even killing Copper arguably only really had a major influence because we let it be known we were attacked. If we her death wouldn't have garnered near as much attention.

We are not forced to take Fleeting Opportunities. My guess would be one Pride FO and some action to calm nobles, later more likely from constables or Velvet commissioner action. Even if we decide to take them remember that we constantly spend actions on gaining bits, even plan to have Jade be busy study low level artifacts only to them sell them. Gaining some bits now with possibility that we may need to pay fro them with few actions later is reasonable. Plus I think it would depend on how well we complete our task and with multiple Name we have decent chance to just pass through and have everyone convinced by Mareinette that Hill went on extended business trip.

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we'll see, I think you're being way too overconfident. I don't mind taking risks, but this feels like an unnecessary one. This is why I compare it to the Ruined Church. Sometimes the thread is so risk averse that we won't take even the smallest chance, and sometimes we're just like YOLO, do a dangerous Manse Expidition or just kidnap our Noble father in the middle of Canterlot. Nothing could possibly go wrong. I mean I hope you're right, but considering how many times we've gotten blindsided by things we didn't expect I remain skeptical it'll be that easy.
Plus just cause we don't have to take an action doesn't mean it doesn't affect us. Things still happen in the background. Also fleeting opportunities are generally Velvet actions and those are much more valuable than follower actions.

 

[Zxzx24]

I can't say I will change my vote but at least this makes the cannibalism pill easier to swallow.

I'm sure Mareinette would be quite pleased to hear that.

 

[Alan975]

Moth beats Grail.

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So the doom clock is made up? Since Lanter beats Moth and all.
Re-read Sveta's post about parents and tea parties please, you're not going to outwit Our Lady when it comes to secrets and subterfuge.

You also seem to think that killing her is still on the table after multiple turns of the thread going in the opposite direction.

I at least will vote against that until she actually steps on our toes like Biddie does, It would ruin the narrative.

And it won't count if she's forced to do so by this kind of wishy-washy, 'but I want to eat the cake and have it' behaviour.

 

[Faraway-R]

And then, she crawls back into the storm and the night, where monsters like her belong.

Leaving the filly, and her confused new friend, to the warmth and safety of civilization.

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Man, she's a better guest than we deserve

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You don't know the half of it.

I think I can see now what will happen if we befriend Our Lady of Wires, Mareinette.

To begin with. What happens if we don't. If we let bindings expire, disappoint her, and so on. She will consider us rude. To say the least. And act accordingly.



If we do befriend Mareinette...

Spoiler: I tried to make it horror-themed

She will be delighted. And our family and foals will ever be safe from her. Because they are Velvet Covers' family and foals.

She will share with us her greatest secrets. Just as Master once gave us a droplet of GRAIL, so will Mareinette share with us a related secret.

She will share with us what it means to crave the flesh of your own child, and how it felt to satisfy that craving.

She will teach us what it means to prepare an unforgettable meal, with culinary advice that just so happens to perfectly fit Silky Stream and Soft Sweeps as ingridients.

She will also share the secrets of the HEART, of how to ensure that the meal being prepared, just like the boar we sacrificed in the Rite that brought her to us, lives on for as long as possible.

She might push our affinity with Secret Histories to feel for ourselves what partaking in such a feast would be like.

And make no mistake, choosing whether to partake in the unforgettable meal will always be Velvet Covers' choice.


And then, Soft Sweeps will enter the room.
And Velvet Covers will look at her oldest daughter.


And we as voters will be given a choice. Offered an action that Velvet Covers can take. And that she would never regret if we do.

To swallow the wolf-child that keeps Soft Sweeps alive, and to utilize the secrets of the HEART to keep Soft Sweeps alive even without the wolf-child.


And if we do choose it, Velvet Covers would not regret it.
But her REGRETTABLE ACTIONS counter will tick up once more for she partakes in WOLF-child.

But that's just my opinion.

 

[Alan975]

But that's just my opinion.

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...Damn you.

Our sons are still innocent by virtue of blue-and-orange morality, but that is tempting.

 

[Faraway-R]

...Damn you.

Our sons are still innocent by virtue of blue-and-orange morality, but that is tempting.

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I'm glad you appreciate it.

I put some thought into it, because it had to be tempting.

And fit what we know of Mareinette.

 

[Solace2117]

Look Velvet isn't an Alicorn, she isn't a Name. She's not infallible or all powerful. She has some powerful Names, but she's befriended only one. The rest have their own agenda and don't always have to act fully in her best interest. She's good at the lores, but she only has one sacrament. We've been shown multiple times that she doesn't have the power to act with total impunity. Look at the Master and Celestia.

Could the expedition go perfect, sure, but even Names fail rolls, look at Baldomare's attempt to get the texts and the search for Neighnia. This isn't just killing some random criminal that no one will miss. It's a noble and her father, this will create waves and there is no guarantee she can stay above it without consequences even if it's not tied to her.

I'm not saying this will happen, but a known figure disappearing in the city could be enough to rouse Celestia to become more involved because of how it is similar to the changeling disappearances. I'm not trying to fear monger cause that's potential worst case and I doubt it'll happen, but a high profile disappearance could easily provoke that kind of response from others. It would also make things much more difficult for Cadence. Velvet is not powerful enough to be totally above the fray, events of the world still affect her.

It comes back to is this really worth it. Velvet Hill is a criminal and shit father, but there's lots of those out there. Hell, Velvet doesn't even really know he's a criminal, that's more us moralizing. After curing her flaws I don't even know that she really cares that much about him anymore. She certainly doesn't think about him like she used to. We already lost one turn because we were over confident. Glory is right there and we need to get shit done. Velvet is starting to slip and I won't be surprised if the longer we put off All in the worse it gets. If there was some major pay off I could justify it, but really there's not. The sacrament is the same and I doubt the extra bits will be worth the potential hassle.
I have no issue going after Velvet Hill, I don't think he's worth the hassle or potential consequences.
As a side note if we had sent Mareinette to Cadence I might actually be a less worried. Still think it's a bad idea, but the image of Mareinette taking Cadence's place in the throne while the nobles complain about it is hilarious.

 

[Shaper47]

Glory is right there and we need to get shit done.

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Like a SH Sacrament for example.

Really need to stop putting that off for later.

 

[Flaregamer82253]

Hello! Busy weekend and haven't had much time to pop in. Played a quick catch up for the last 10 pages.

[X] Plan: Devouring the Sky
[X] Plan: Graven Commissioner and Commander
[X] Plan: Prisoner Chomping

Most people probably know that I want to make friends with Mareinette. A little sad we're not taking the Spoiled Rich route, but these are kind of nice too.
Happy we're doing the Edge sacrament. @ses has made some points earlier about the lesson we should take from the assault on the manor, and I came to the conclusion that we're both correct
Otherwise, I'm easily satisfied with any of these plans until the real bloodbath starts with Velvet's phase.

 

[Sveta08]

I'm not saying this will happen, but a known figure disappearing in the city could be enough to rouse Celestia to become more involved because of how it is similar to the changeling disappearances. I'm not trying to fear monger cause that's potential worst case and I doubt it'll happen- ect...

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Celestia won't. I say that will full, nigh absolute certainty. If I'm wrong, egg on my face but...

Celestia did nothing when one of her appointed few important ponies, Velvet herself, was attacked. If memory serves, her words were "You have a busy month ahead of you" or something to that effect. She seems to be done babying ponykind. She is focused like few things are, and that focus is not anywhere even close to the disgraced nobles she herself has all but dismissed.
I know you said you doubt that Celestia would... but I know what priming looks like in a discussion to try and give weight to other claims. And it looks like that.



Velvet Hill... gegh. I don't think the problems that are going to come from it (because there will be) will be overmuch in the physical side of things. It's going to be much more on Velvet Covers herself. It's going to be a mare who tries to do the right thing, who wants to be good and recognizes there are hard decisions that have to be made. And it's going to be her picking the easy option for something. It's her picking something close to vindication. It's cruel, and it's vicious and it's vile and it's harsh.

It's Velvet seeing the problems coming down the pipeline and seeing things she might need to do to be prepared. It's Velvet looking at her timeline and her funds and the world and saying she needs an answer. That someone has to die in a truly cruel and terrible way. This is Velvet Covers deciding her father should be the one to suffer that fate. That he will die by her hooves, and she should benefit from it. She will make excuses, understand and weigh the decision and will even lose sleep over it. But it's an understanding. For her to have the power to keep the people she loves safe, by the means she knows... someone is going to have to suffer for it.

So she is picking someone that made her suffer. That felt no remorse. That Lived and Hated and gave up on her. And as much as Velvet has moved past it... she could let it sit.
Or. She could use him as an excuse.



I am under no pretense this is Good. Maybe Fitting, or Narratively Interesting. But this is not Good. This is Bad. Cruel. Malicious. Violent and Hateful.
I do not envision Velvet as a paragon of good. Nor do I see her as some megalomaniacal Villian. She tries to be good.
This is just one place, that I feel she... she doesn't try to be better here.