Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

[Arrkhon]

Oh honestly, if we were aiming for something resembling moral justification we would go after a cultist for Grail sacrament due to the danger they present and sins they committed in order to create windigos, Hill is the emotional justification combined with a dash of opportunism for the bits we will steal while at it and Spoiled is the utilitarian choice due to pure convenience letting us save on time we can use to gather more powe or give Silky a nice party, random criminal is nothing but being silly.

 

[ses]

Really not looking forward to the salt of the voters who expected a free get out of guilt card when we get handed a random victim because there are no "acceptable targets" in ponyville.

 

[Nevermort]

Killing her father is just as much of an excuse. She doesn't know about his criminal history. She may hate him, but the passion doesn't seem to be there as much anymore. He doesn't matter. Arguably this is much colder. Killing a random criminal affects less people. Killing her father potentially hurts a lot more people. Her brother, her Uncle, and maybe even her daughter, even if Silky doesn't know him. The fact he is a criminal leader is OOC knowledge. Velvet just knows he's a terrible father and not a very good person, but doesn't actually know how deep that goes.

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It is not about amount of people affected. When you start count it already becomes calculative. What is important is change in Velvet's mentality. She was not so far from snapping and killing father from the beginning and if she returns to such state it is just her remaining herself. Let's say that talk with Uncle reignited her hatred for Hill and remembering about Mareinette invitation she choose the only person she could stomach killing. It is not too far from her original persona.

Willing to capture and sacrifice random ponies even if criminals on the other hand is very differed from how she was portrayed in the beginning and even middle of the game. I would not say that it would be entirely out character but it still clear indication of her moral fall.

Edit: Also criminals are not horses in vacuum, they too have people who would be affected by their passing.

 

[ses]

So what exactly do you all plan on doing when we get asked to vote "go or no go" after being handed a random victim? Because that's probably what's going to end up happening.

 

[spiderhellian]

I think we wind up with go.

But I do think it's unlikely we get someone as bad as our Father, from a moral sense.

And it does seem so much more boring. We put so much more work in, lose any opportunity if other gain, for not much. If we wanted to do this, we could just use Spoiled!

I really think Devour the Sky is the better plan.

 

[LieutenantSpirit]

So what exactly do you all plan on doing when we get asked to vote "go or no go" after being handed a random victim? Because that's probably what's going to end up happening.

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I doubt we'll be handed an innocent. Instead, we'll be given a criminal that's not a "major" criminal and will be asked if their relatively minor crimes still make them worth eating.

I imagine their crimes will be on par with those from the lower tiers of blackmail from Copper.

 

[Rafuki22]

If we wanted to do this, we could just use Spoiled!

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We could use her for the Moth/Grail Sacrament combo even.

 

[spiderhellian]

Would people really feel better about eating a minor thief than our Dad? A one-off murderer? A vandal?

At least our Dad we OOC know is pretty shady. And IC we know is pretty awful too.

I'm really not optimistic about the quality of criminal a Name will find scouring the streets of Ponyville.

And I think either way it's less compelling than taking on our Dad.

 

[Cochimetl]

So what exactly do you all plan on doing when we get asked to vote "go or no go" after being handed a random victim? Because that's probably what's going to end up happening.

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What do you think will happen when the Sacrament is right in front of us? The thread has made it clear it won't balk at cannibalism.
People are seriously considering eating Spoiled Rich! That random victim isn't going to deserve it less than her!

The vote will be yes, and instead of being horrified as I should be I will be grateful that the two worse alternatives didn't happen.

 

[Pittauro]

you know, I think there's an easy way to fix the winning plan away from the "we might end up sacrificing a not-that-bad minor criminal.

When it comes down to Velvet's action vote, we replace the third study action with a Tapestry ritual for that "super-horrible we-won't-feel-bad-about-it criminal" instead.

 

[Solace2117]

It is not about amount of people affected. When you start count it already becomes calculative. What is important is change in Velvet's mentality. She was not so far from snapping and killing father from the beginning and if she returns to such state it is just her remaining herself. Let's say that talk with Uncle reignited her hatred for Hill and remembering about Mareinette invitation she choose the only person she could stomach killing. It is not too far from her original persona.

Willing to capture and sacrifice random ponies even if criminals on the other hand is very differed from how she was portrayed in the beginning and even middle of the game. I would not say that it would be entirely out character but it still clear indication of her moral fall.

Edit: Also criminals are not horses in vacuum, they too have people who would be affected by their passing.

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Velvet willing to give into old hate and potentially hurt her family is arguably just as much of a backslide considering how much importance she's placed on shielding them and her friends from the very beginning. This is a moral failing either way, though probably a necessary one.

So what exactly do you all plan on doing when we get asked to vote "go or no go" after being handed a random victim? Because that's probably what's going to end up happening.

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We've seen evidence of two cults in Ponyville. Multiple times throughout the quest we've seen evidence of criminals and bad things happening in the background. I don't think it'll be all that hard to find, but we'll see.

Would people really feel better about eating a minor thief than our Dad? A one-off murderer? A vandal?

At least our Dad we OOC know is pretty shady. And IC we know is pretty awful too.

I'm really not optimistic about the quality of criminal a Name will find scouring the streets of Ponyville.

And I think either way it's less compelling than taking on our Dad.

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Realistically I don't feel good about any of the options, but I've been reluctantly convinced the sacrament is necessary. I think the random criminal has less potential complications and negative effects on those Velvet care about and her pursuit of Glory.

I doubt the sky falls and the world ends either way, but I just see so many more negative consequences to targeting Velvet Hill. Maybe I'm overthinking it and it'll all go perfect, but I remain skeptical. Really I'd rather focus on taking part in Tall Tales and potentially seeing our knock sacrament in action, that's much more narratively interesting. I'm just slightly more convinced assaulting Velvet Hill is a bad idea.

 

[Flaregamer82253]

I doubt we'll be handed an innocent. Instead, we'll be given a criminal that's not a "major" criminal and will be asked if their relatively minor crimes still make them worth eating.

I imagine their crimes will be on par with those from the lower tiers of blackmail from Copper.

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Keep in mind that we're in Ponyville everyone, and that is where we're going to get our prisoner from. Why only Ponyville? Because trying to transport a prisoner across plains and trains is unviable.

So what is the population of Ponyville?
First, we have to understand that the Cult probably coalesced most of the major criminal elements in Ponyville. The same criminal elements that skipped town and burned down the Wild Hoof Club. I specifically remember Comet Feet saying very early on in the quest that Ponyville didn't have many good opportunities for Edge adepts in a cult meeting. AKA, it's gonna be hard to find a murderer here.

What about Ponyville's growing population?
Most of the population since the Cataclysm are families of ponies that have come here after hearing that it was among the least affected in Equestria. It's only been a scarce few months since this began. Criminal elements would find much more opportunity in bigger cities that were more effected by the Cataclysm, so they won't have flocked here. An underworld in Ponyville is something that would take years to properly begin developing when Ponyville isn't just a starting to grow village.

I think it's important to understand that the random prisoner we're going to get is unlikely to be that much of a criminal in the first place. Hoping for anything more is unlikely in the absolute best circumstances.

So Velvet is going to get some random off the street that she doesn't know and only has petty crimes at best, while Velvet is the one with the Murderer trait, and is going to choose to eat them?

I've put a vote in for this option myself, but I truly believe that Velvet will find this choice to be a greater moral failure than choosing either her own father, who she has a history with and utterly hates, or Spoiled Rich, who I've already explained why Velvet wouldn't like her and take umbrage with (because it's motherhood).

 

[Cochimetl]

If we seriously get as a candidate some poor innocent pony whose only crime is stealing some bread to feed his family, then just send Mareinette out to try again.
I don't think she cares about giving Velvet moral quandaries. She's has every interest to bring back someone palatable.

 

[ses]

If we seriously get as a candidate some poor innocent pony whose only crime is stealing some bread to feed his family, then just send Mareinette out to try again.
I don't think she cares about giving Velvet moral quandaries. She's has every interest to bring back someone palatable.

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Great, now we're stuck re-enacting the plot of the Breaking Bad season 1 episode where he has a prisoner in his basement he can't set safely free and then ends up killing anyway.

That's an improvement for suuuuure.

If we send Axe to grab a rando we are committing to killing that rando. We're not going to end up letting them go once they're in our murder basement prison.

 

[Cochimetl]

Great, now we're stuck re-enacting the plot of the Breaking Bad season 1 episode where he has a prisoner in his basement he can't set safely free and then ends up killing anyway.

That's an improvement for suuuuure.

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Why are you acting like this is a problem? Just Grail him. He won't remember a thing.

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

posting my thoughts before FINALLY looking at the plans and deciding what to go for:

I PERSONALLY think the decision to in the end go for Mareinette sacrament is NOT a wrong decision, in that there's a very good argument that we can't afford risks, and Mareinette is extremely useful both for All-In, BEFORE All In (especially if we get the two actions, as that will allow us to quickly reach Heart 4 too!), and in general she's better as a friend that an enemy (or even a mere acquaintance).

As for eating Velvet Hill... I'd RATHER we went for an unrelated pedophile/serial killer, as I imagine Velvet would more easily accept it/rationalize it, but I have to admit the idea of reading an update in which Velvet FINALLY tears into her dad (METAPHORICALLY! I MEANT WITH WORDS), telling her all the reasons why she despises him...

...before tearing into him LITERALLY, I suppose.

I have this image in mind of a reluctantly proud father for once. Alternatively, something like this instead:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iWgonJ85jY&ab_channel=DanDan

just replace "strongest pokemon" with "succesful/worthy heir".

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His approval would fill Velvet with shame.

[X] Plan: Prisoner Chomping

I'm sad this plan doesn't include Tall Tale Velvet though, but other than that I think it's everything I want?

[X] Plan: Let's Not Kidnap a Prominent Figure From Canterlot

This seems a lot like Prisoner Chomping except for having Tall Tale.

[X] Plan: Prisoner Chomping with dirty hoofs


...wait a secon aren't these last two plans BASICALLY the same plan?

The only difference I see is basically "not an innocent civilian" vs "a pedophile".

...I'd argue that the second one is a bit TOO restrictive, at least when done without a scrying ritual.

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Hey now, it could be someone who sells foals to pedophiles as well! But yes, other than that slight wording difference they are identical.

 

[spiderhellian]

When it comes down to Velvet's action vote, we replace the third study action with a Tapestry ritual for that "super-horrible we-won't-feel-bad-about-it criminal" instead.

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This feels like such an utter waste.

Like our Dad… really is such a figure!

Heck, I'm not even sure we have the bits for another ritual.

 

[Limabot]

you know, I think there's an easy way to fix the winning plan away from the "we might end up sacrificing a not-that-bad minor criminal.

When it comes down to Velvet's action vote, we replace the third study action with a Tapestry ritual for that "super-horrible we-won't-feel-bad-about-it criminal" instead.

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I broadly agree with you, though I would want to specify it more to be "the worst Pony within at most a 1-2 day train ride from Ponyville", lest we get stuck with some Hippogriff slasher or someone else that's too comically far from us to do anything to.

 

[Flaregamer82253]

If we seriously get as a candidate some poor innocent pony whose only crime is stealing some bread to feed his family, then just send Mareinette out to try again.
I don't think she cares about giving Velvet moral quandaries. She's has every interest to bring back someone palatable.

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Why are you acting like this is a problem? Just Grail him. He won't remember a thing.

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We are a level 4 mortal adept in Grail. For us, the person generally has to at least be amenable to us before we can Grail them for that. Are we gonna ask Mareinette to do it? She's more likely to be angry at the delay and it would be a waste of an AP likely after we would have to promise to do the Grail sacrament! If we get the prisoner then we can't just let them go. We have to use them.

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

I highly doubt Marinette would get angry since she is explicitly treating this all as a game and her current situation is still miles better than being stuck in the Ruined Church.

Also fun fact: if we meld the Hooves Dirty and Let's Not plans, it would be in second place at 15 votes. Things are very heated here.

 

[K4lepo]

[X] Plan: Cannibalism is Cringe
[X] Plan: Prisoner Chomping
[X] Plan: Prisoner Chomping with dirty hoofs
[X] Plan: Let's Not Kidnap a Prominent Figure From Canterlot

I don't mind killing Hill or eating someone but there needs to be a better reason for it other than that it'll feel good to read about for a Chapter or two. I don't want to trade a short-term pleasure for long-term consequences.

 

[Cochimetl]

Also fun fact: if we meld the Hooves Dirty and Let's Not plans, it would be in second place at 15 votes. Things are very heated here.

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Personally I hope the Commissioner in Tall Tale factions manage to consolidate. I'd switch my vote if it meant attacking instead of Forge Lore, but not while it would mean Devouring wins.

 

[Rafuki22]

So unless i counted incorrectly and there are news votes, the current winning vote is Prisoner Chomping?

 

[spiderhellian]

I don't mind killing Hill or eating someone but there needs to be a better reason for it other than that it'll feel good to read about for a Chapter or two. I don't want to trade a short-term pleasure for long-term consequences.

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For what it's worth, the value of going after Hill is that we could get expedition rewards from the assault. Looting a Noble estate, at least in part, or maybe something like the blackmail that we got from Copper too.

A rich mob boss estate is likely to be filled with bits we could get use out of… and possibly other things too, like the paintings Steppes showed us (that were really High Level Books).

The messiness in the aftermath might have opportunities, as well, it's hard to know for sure.

 

[Arrkhon]

Nice, it seems that chomping on random pony we don't know in order to ignore the fallout from their death is winning, bit more cowardly than usual for Velvet but I can see why she would go for that

 

[Void_510]

We are a level 4 mortal adept in Grail. For us, the person generally has to at least be amenable to us before we can Grail them for that. Are we gonna ask Mareinette to do it? She's more likely to be angry at the delay and it would be a waste of an AP likely after we would have to promise to do the Grail sacrament! If we get the prisoner then we can't just let them go. We have to use them.

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No, we really don't. It would be a huge waste of AP but that would be our own fault for not picking options that take us to a point we are willing to continue through.

I expected eat or don't eat to be divisive ever since eat started gaining traction but I did not expect this level of argument over who to eat. We even had another foray into 'can we kill her?'.

I still think we should have been gettting Heart lessons turns ago but that ship has largely passed as an alternative option.

 

[Crystal Violet]

Well, here's my vote. Let's see how it all unfolds, looks a bit complicated now.

[x] Plan: Devouring the Sky
- [x] (Free) Sell Edge 3 artifact
- [x] (Detectives) Follow Up: Dodge City
- [x] (Constables) Follow Up: Tall Tale
- [x] (Commissioner) Introduce Lore: Forge
- [x] (Director) Lantern
- [x] (Mareinette) Honored Guest: Spoiled Rich & Filthy Rich
- [x] (Biedde) Channel an Edge Influence
- [x] (Baldomare) Channel a Lantern Influence
- [x] (Selene) Soothe the night
- [x] (Selene) Dreamwalking: Spy on Windy Flakes
- [x] (Rarity) Focus on her work
- [x] Assault an Opponent: Velvet Hill
- [x] Perform the Reflection of the Tapestry
-- [x] Target: Easiest Level 7 book to acquire
-- [x] At Jade's old house
- [x] Build a prison
- [x] Perform the Attention of the Laws (Edge) (x2)
- [x] Cover your bases (-2 Follower AP, +1 Velvet AP)

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

Personally I hope the Commissioner in Tall Tale factions manage to consolidate. I'd switch my vote if it meant attacking instead of Forge Lore, but not while it would mean Devouring wins.

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An admittedly tall order when less than two hours remain and pinging is rude.

 

[Rafuki22]

Nice, it seems that chomping on random pony we don't know in order to ignore the fallout from their death is winning, bit more cowardly than usual for Velvet but I can see why she would go for that

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Kidnapping them doesn't necessarily mean that we will eat them.

 

[Arrkhon]

Kidnapping them doesn't necessarily mean that we will eat them.

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True, we may sacrifice them in a ritual instead but that seems like a bit of a waste