Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

[DelightedOne]

Good to know for the future. It might help when/if we tell Cadence, or Shining, or Twilight. Maybe even Copper if we don't just kill her instead.

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We are telling Cadance for sure when she gets to Confidante status, not only because it would be a show of trust but because she needs to know what is happening with Celestia, imagine if Daybreaker wins the mental battle one day and she has no idea it could happen. It is also the second best way to introdue her to the lores(the first would be healing Shining's horn).

Shining is kind of a must since I doubt Cadance would hide anything from him, if we end up laundering the lores, healing his horn and he becomes captain of the Royal Guard again telling him can help in delaying Daybreaker for a bit if needed.

Twilight... We can only do anything with her if she recovers and in that case Selene telling her she needs to use the Elements to help Celestia should be enough, hopefully.

Diplomacy is my preferred way to deal with Copper, even if it is just to spit in the face of the ways of the old Wake, but how could Selene help in this case?

 

[Iustus Vitea]

Have Princess Luna, in her capacity as head of the Bureau, break down her door and subsume the cult? By that I mean grab anything worth grabbing, pressgang anyone worth pressganging and disband the rest while keeping an eye on everyone. Oh and hold criminal trials.

 

[Greymere]

Have Princess Luna in her capacity as head of the Bureau break down her door and subsume the cult? By that I mean grab anything worth grabbing, pressgang anyone worth pressganging disband the rest and keep an eye on everyone. Oh and hold trials.

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Luna's not going to be around in any official capacity for a while. Not until Daybreaker somehow gets dealt with.

 

[Iustus Vitea]

It depends on Biedde's sacrament too.

We're 2 scraps away from edge cap.

Depending on what his sacrament is, we might actually be ready NEXT TURN.

...also, just saying, but we might always offer Comet Sacrament as well.

Something to consider

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It'd be pretty funny, in an absurd way, if we take Biedde's sacrament and Comet refuses his and then takes up the Dyad partner's.

There might not be as many parallels between us and Comet as there were between us and Soft but it does kind of work.

 

[Iustus Vitea]

Luna's not going to be around in any official capacity for a while. Not until Daybreaker somehow gets dealt with.

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I did mean after that yes.

 

[angelsadvocate666]

If we are summoning Biedde this turn then I'd like to send him to scout out Copper with intent to find the manuscripts and other evidence specifically instead of popping an Influence. I see no reason to do so beyond what amounts to morbid curiosity when Bird said an AotL will do us fine.

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Uh… what? You might have misread or be misremembering something because Bird never said that. As in, I literally checked all the posts he made since the Velvet phase began, and all he said about AotLs was that an Edge one might be useful. No comments on whether it would be enough or not.

Can you show me the quote that says otherwise?

 

[DelightedOne]

Luna's not going to be around in any official capacity for a while. Not until Daybreaker somehow gets dealt with.

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To be fair we don't know if post-training Selene would be willing to go back to Canterlot right after, that might even help with Daybreaker if Luna can take take over for Celestia instead of Cadance(who is going to the Crystal Empire eventually) or even just support her.

Talking about Daybreaker made me remember a question I had, If Luna talked with Daybreaker in Celestia's dream does that mean she knows Luna is awake and well and is expecting her to come back soon?

 

[Nevermort]

Luna's not going to be around in any official capacity for a while. Not until Daybreaker somehow gets dealt with.

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Well, theoretically, if say one of our detectives causing us troubles we may be able to invite them for a talk, where Luna will meet with them and tell that we have Royal Authority to do things we do. And forbid them from telling even one soul about Luna ruling Suppression Bureau from the shadows. Luna is supposed to be head of Bureau even above Celestia after all. And it can be implied that Celestia knows and will obliterate anyone who will utter such secret in her earshot.

 

[Steady Gaze]

And why you are doing it this way? Why are you going into her dream to do this? Well, for several reasons. First, because you can tell that ponies simply trust you, or believe you more easily, when you talk to them in their dreams. They might not consciously realize they are dreaming, but you can tell you form a connection with them that is deeper than what two ponies have when they just talk in real life.

And the second reason is… well, because not only you can shift their dreams around, if they need a little more convincing. But also because there is little to no consequence if they refuse to believe you, or if they simply overreact and start screaming.

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Good to know for the future. It might help when/if we tell Cadence, or Shining, or Twilight.

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Write-in sometime for Selene/Luna to give Twilight Sparkle dream therapy? I initially thought of this idea as a joke, but now I think it's actually the only angle we have to help her, and might actually work. Maybe Cadance made some progress when they met before their wedding that we can follow up on. (If that doesn't work… fillification ritual? )

 

[Iustus Vitea]

He said it might help not that it would help or even would be necessary. Now that may just be normal QM vagueness but at the same time popping an Influence is such a wild escalation for a conversation that's gonna involve a vote.

Bird also said that the Influence won't change what options we get only how we get to them. The only reason to pop the influence for the FO is if you're expecting/sure to get into a brawl with him.

I'm not saying we shouldn't pop it at all, only that to do so for the conversation would be a waste. If the sacrament turns out worth doing like Pitt pointed out then fine but outside of that I don't really see a reason for it.

 

[Greymere]

I'm not saying we shouldn't pop it at all, only that to do so for the conversation would be a waste. If the sacrament turns out worth doing like Pitt pointed out then fine but outside of that I don't really see a reason for it.

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I mean, Mansus expedition? There's a pretty good chance we'll run into some creepy-crawlies, considering they were running around on the main floor too.

 

[Iustus Vitea]

If we get into a fight in the Mansus it's probably gonna be against groups of enemies and I'm not comfortable throwing down even with an influence what with our 2 hp. Better to sneak and run in my books. And I don't believe Edge applies to fleeing rolls, does it?

 

[angelsadvocate666]

Bird also said that the Influence won't change what options we get only how we get to them. The only reason to pop the influence for the FO is if you're expecting/sure to get into a brawl with him.

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Ah, you uh… might be taking that a little too literally? Like, Bird's talked about this kind of thing before in the other thread, that's not him saying the Influence won't give the action roll a bonus, that's him saying that, assuming the same end roll result, an Influence being present doesn't change things. Like, if we get an 80 without the Influence, and if we get an 80 with the influence, it's the same. It's still, you know, useful for getting to that roll result. Or at least, that's what it always was before. Just to be careful, can you confirm or deny @OurLadyOfWires

If we get into a fight in the Mansus it's probably gonna be against groups of enemies and I'm not comfortable throwing down even with an influence what with our 2 hp. Better to sneak and run in my books. And I don't believe Edge applies to fleeing rolls, does it?

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It doesn't just have to be a fight. There was a lore roll in the first Church expedition that was either Edge or Moth, and wasn't an actual fight.

Also I think it depends on the type of fleeing? Just straight running counts as Edg IIRC, whereas hiding would be Moth, for example.

 

[Pittauro]

Write-in sometime for Selene/Luna to give Twilight Sparkle dream therapy? I initially thought of this idea as a joke, but now I think it's actually the only angle we have to help her, and might actually work. Maybe Cadance made some progress when they met before their wedding that we can follow up on. (If that doesn't work… fillification ritual? )

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Maybe after her training is complete.



An incision might also in theory help, and Luna would be good at it.

He said it might help no that it would help or even would be necessary. Now that may just be normal QM vagueness but at the same time popping an Influence is such a wild escalation for a conversation that's gonna involve a vote.

Bird also said that the Influence won't change what options we get only how we get to them. The only reason to pop the influence for the FO is if you're expecting/sure to get into a brawl with him.

I'm not saying we shouldn't pop it at all, only that to do so for the conversation would be a waste. If the sacrament turns out worth doing like Pitt pointed out then fine but outside of that I don't really see a reason for it.

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Agreed.

My reasons to potentially consider edge influence NOW would be, more or less in order

1)sacrament if we can do it already next turn.

2) if Copper is going to attack us, it will likely be this turn and with Windigoes, so we'd be more ready for it

3) if we explore the red church it might help.

4) a distant last place, it might help with Comet and would make for a very interesting talk/encounter.

Then again, we could also do 2 lessons instead, and save the influence to try and climb towards edge 6 later. Probably not worth it, but it IS an option.

Honestly I don't see us reaching LVL 6, though hey, who knows...

 

[angelsadvocate666]

Then again, we could also do 2 lessons instead, and save the influence to try and climb towards edge 6 later. Probably not worth it, but it IS an option.

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To be fair, from what I recall, the second scrap only applies at Level Four or below. Once we hit Level Five a Level Four Influence would only give one scrap, and we could get that with a lesson.

I might be misremembering that though.

 

[Greymere]

And I don't believe Edge applies to fleeing rolls, does it?

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Nothing applies to fleeing rolls besides our Marital, if the Mareinette chase is anything to go by. However, crucially, there are still combat rolls happening during flee attempts. So while it wouldn't help with fleeing directly, it would very much help with that whole "not dying" thing that's a bit of a prerequisite to being able to run away.

 

[Pittauro]

To be fair, from what I recall, the second scrap only applies at Level Four or below. Once we hit Level Five a Level Four Influence would only give one scrap, and we could get that with a lesson.

I might be misremembering that though.

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Oh, no, you're right. We get a scrap for every two levels the source is above ours, and a tier 4 influence sort of counts as LVL 8.

In that case yeah, more reasons to go for edge influence, depending on what the edge sacrament is.

 

[angelsadvocate666]

Admittedly, I'm also just really interested in seeing both what an Edge Influence looks like from the inside, and also seeing more Name granted Influences. The one from Baldomare was really cool, and the Master's was too even if that one was a lot less regulated and basically just tossed at us like a loose pair of pants.

 

[Earth-Destroyer]

I don't think the Leash is a therapy tool like that. @OurLadyOfWires , is it a therapy tool like that? Because I thought it just skipped any loyalty mission in favor of mind whammy, but I will admit this scheme has me intrigued.

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The hard part of gaining new confidants is getting close enough to them they will talk about their problems, and figuring out how you can help them in the first place. But for Filthy at least it very easy at least, get someone, Filthy Rich, Diamond Tiara, or just Velvet even, to slap some since into Spoiled Rich. Velvet is basically tailored, made to handle Spoiled Rich, even more so then Rarity even.

 

[Venerable Ro]

you know what, I've been convinced. It's expensive, but if we REALLY really have to we might be able to take a second commission next turn (assuming Rarity can afford it) to get the bits for Frangiclave expedition.

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Honestly, barring exceptional circumstances I would assume we'd want to scout the expedition site before rolling into it, so that'd be a turn right there that (daring to assume no other surprise expenses) could build up a little extra dosh.

[X] Plan Betterer Biedde

 

[Solace2117]

[X] Plan Sacrament
-[X] (AotL) Edge
-[X] (Forge) SH3, for The calling of an influence
-[X] (Social) Level up Jade
-[X] (Steppes) ask what's the general opinion about you and the Bureau among nobles and common ponies alike.
-[X] "The proper things, in the proper manner, in the proper order. God help us all." (Perform a Ritual)
--[X] "The calling of Influence" (Secret Histories)
--[X] To be performed on an inconspicuous place, located by Baldomare
-[X] Fleeting Opportunity: Comet Feet
-[X] Study: Forge 3, Forge 3, Mystery Book
-[X] Explore the Mansus
--[X] Explore the Red Church
--[X] [MANSUS] Tarrying in the Wastes is always a poor idea… but there is no other way to discover what this place holds. (Search for a new area)
-[X] These are the skills that allow you to climb the Mansus. (Actions towards your possible Sacraments)
--[X] Attempt, even if foolishly, to untangle the webs of the Secret Histories
---[X] Investigate your current skills. To try to understand them, if nothing else. (Current progress 1/3) (THIS IS A DANGEROUS ACTION)

[X] Plan Mapping the Wastes

Still voting for my plan, but figured I'd toss a vote in for my second preferred option. It nets us a follower and finally lets us spend more time exploring the Mansus. This opens up more potential expeditions for items and summons. The Biedde plans are probably pretty firmly in the lead and I don't know that they're bad ideas, I just think it's better to wait till next turn for the reasons I've mentioned. Also, if we're not going to do the Sacrament this turn, I'd rather guarantee the book search even if the chance of failure is small. In theory I prefer the Cheaper Biedde variants though I'm not a big fan of the social action for Filthy Rich. I'm skeptical of the Filthy Rich option because I don't think it'll be as easy as people think to open up business opportunities and considering how hard it's been to get anyone to commit to Sacraments, I doubt we'll go that direction anytime soon. I'm not opposed to more social actions, but I think it would be more useful right now to teach Rarity or Fluttershy. If we really want to social someone, Applejack could also potentially open up business chances with her farm while also having the benefit of being an Element. Even Mayor Mare could be big help. Having more connections with the local government gives Velvet a source of information about what's going on locally and the about the local opinion on matters with the country as a whole. It also potentially opens up options to reduce suspicion.

 

[DelightedOne]

[X] Plan Bright Mare Hired
-[X] (AotL) Edge(Comet Feet)
-[X] (Forge) SH2, for Jade's RotT
-[X] (Social) Level up Jade
-[X] (Steppes) Ask about our reputation and how to make a more positive impression aka how to make sure ponies don't think we are a monster again(but not with those words)
-[X] Summon a Mare-in-the-Light
--[X] To be performed on an inconspicuous place, located by Baldomare
-[X] Fleeting Opportunity: Comet Feet
-[X] Study: Forge 3, Forge 3, Mystery Book
-[X] [LEARN] "Unknown Ritual – A Memory of Light" Step one
-[X] Explore the Mansus
--[X] Explore the Red Church
--[X] The place where the Mansus was struck. You must explore it.

[X] Plan Mapping the Wastes

Woops forgot to update the AotL in my plan. Also voting for another plan

 

[Limabot]

[X] Plan A Cheaper Beckoning of Biedde (no hubris)
-[X] (AotL) Edge
-[X] (Forge) Edge 3
-[X] (Steppes) Ask about Manehattan, what he encountered there, its neighborhoods, anywhere we should avoid if we were to visit!
—[X] (A little bit of direction if we were to send someone there)
-[X] (Social) Level up Jade
-[X] Summon Biedde
--[X] Sacrifice Edge 3 and Wrong Key
--[X] To be performed on an inconspicuous place, located by Baldomare
-[X] Fleeting Opportunity: Comet Feet
-[X] Study: Forge 3, Forge 3, Mystery Book
-[X] Explore the Mansus
--[X] Find a new location in the Ashen Wastes
--[X] Find a new location in the Shattered Stairwells
-[X] Social Filthy Rich

[X] Plan Sacrament
-[X] (AotL) Edge
-[X] (Forge) SH3, for The calling of an influence
-[X] (Social) Level up Jade
-[X] (Steppes) ask what's the general opinion about you and the Bureau among nobles and common ponies alike.
-[X] "The proper things, in the proper manner, in the proper order. God help us all." (Perform a Ritual)
--[X] "The calling of Influence" (Secret Histories)
--[X] To be performed on an inconspicuous place, located by Baldomare
-[X] Fleeting Opportunity: Comet Feet
-[X] Study: Forge 3, Forge 3, Mystery Book
-[X] Explore the Mansus
--[X] Explore the Red Church
--[X] [MANSUS] Tarrying in the Wastes is always a poor idea… but there is no other way to discover what this place holds. (Search for a new area)
-[X] These are the skills that allow you to climb the Mansus. (Actions towards your possible Sacraments)
--[X] Attempt, even if foolishly, to untangle the webs of the Secret Histories
---[X] Investigate your current skills. To try to understand them, if nothing else. (Current progress 1/3) (THIS IS A DANGEROUS ACTION)

 

[Solace2117]

One thing I noticed about the Betterer Biedde plan is it creates a SH1 reagent. I assume it's for Jade to use in the scrying ritual, but it doesn't actually assign it to her.

 

[des-pair-2]

[X] Plan Sacrament

 

[Nevermort]

In theory I prefer the Cheaper Biedde variants though I'm not a big fan of the social action for Filthy Rich. I'm skeptical of the Filthy Rich option because I don't think it'll be as easy as people think to open up business opportunities and considering how hard it's been to get anyone to commit to Sacraments, I doubt we'll go that direction anytime soon. I'm not opposed to more social actions, but I think it would be more useful right now to teach Rarity or Fluttershy. If we really want to social someone, Applejack could also potentially open up business chances with her farm while also having the benefit of being an Element. Even Mayor Mare could be big help. Having more connections with the local government gives Velvet a source of information about what's going on locally and the about the local opinion on matters with the country as a whole. It also potentially opens up options to reduce suspicion.

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I'll argue that having potential +1 follower AP is more important than Rarity or Fluttershy lessons. There is no much benefits from promoting them if one is turned into eternal money making machine and another either calls for Comet or covers for Velvet every turn. Unless we find someone to take over those duties of course, so Rarity for example is not doing commissions every odd turn. And if there is any way to make decent money in Ponyville without relying on Rarity then Filthy Rich is the way to go

As for choosing Filthy over Cherilee, while both give AP, Filthy Rich obviously more optimal from the money making perspective. Same for Mayor Mare, plus she is not a good candidate for Moth Sacrament, even as reserve. Filthy is 3-in-1: money, follower action and reserve sacrament candidate, which no other candidate match.

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

I'm now just imagining that Soft's wolf battery visits her every night to tell her that it tried ripping its way out of her chest again, but all it accomplished was making her heart beat, and it hates her and her mother for it.

 

[Sveta08]

Current tally:

Spoiler: Tally

- snip

People might want to start trimming down/consolidating their votes if more votes don't start coming in, cause otherwise we're going to be getting a tie

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I'd like to thank you for compiling all this here. I've been unfortunately busy and unable to speak as much on this phase of voting nor be as attentive.

But, let's see.... votes...

[X] Plan Mapping the Wastes
[X] Plan Plan Betterer Biedde

Y'all covered the things I was hoping for, of an expedition to the top, a search in the wastes, and reading. Past that, convinced on Edge, so...
All good.

 

[Paintmaster]

Well...at least we know the wolf is consistent in that nothing good comes from it. Yeah Soft is alive, but its a cursed double life. One as a pony and the other implied to be either one of the wolf children or some sort of hybrid being. Either way the implied fact that this is her fate after she dies is...unpleasant. At the very least that Soft doesn't seem to have hostile intentions like their brothers. That Luna doesn't understand the context here might be best, but its going to be an issue at some point as I doubt she is going to just forget about this.

Also...is it just me or did Soft's dream feel a lot closer to a mansus dream than a normal one? Given the description it would fit a number of places.

 

[Solace2117]

I'll argue that having potential +1 follower AP is more important than Rarity or Fluttershy lessons. There is no much benefits from promoting them if one is turned into eternal money making machine and another either calls for Comet or covers for Velvet every turn. Unless we find someone to take over those duties of course, so Rarity for example is not doing commissions every odd turn. And if there is any way to make decent money in Ponyville without relying on Rarity then Filthy Rich is the way to go

As for choosing Filthy over Cherilee, while both give AP, Filthy Rich obviously more optimal from the money making perspective. Same for Mayor Mare, plus she is not a good candidate for Moth Sacrament, even as reserve. Filthy is 3-in-1: money, follower action and reserve sacrament candidate, which no other candidate match.

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You're making a lot of assumptions about how easy it'll be with Filthy Rich. He's a friend, not a close friend which means he's still 2 steps from being a Confidant/minion. Even with the leash we're potentially talking about multiple actions. I doubt anyone is willing to vote for the moth Sacrament soon. Raising our followers levels makes them more useful. Not all followers are created equal. Applejack, while probably not as useful business wise, does offer some avenue as Rarity did and comes with more benefits outside of that as an Element of Harmony. Mayor Mare offers more political connections which considering how much Velvet is doing and hiding could be much more useful.

Also I keep coming back to the threads tendency to focus on bits. I get it they're important, but I think we're better off on finding other resources. In the short term we need bits, but having access to more things like high level books, reagents, and artifacts which we can get through expeditions reduce overall costs since we don't have to buy/make our own.