Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

[ses]

I changed my mind, have to remember that Velvet used Lores as therapy to great success and thus would recommend it to Sweeps. And I don't want Velvet taking over the Wolf Cult because through her lens the Wolf is Evil, Paranoia, and Ash. I'd rather see what Soft keeps doing with them.

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Gift Her Freedom doesn't stop Soft Sweeps from doing what she's doing. We'll get a vote on how involved we want Soft to be, and we can absolutely vote for Soft to be in charge of the Support Group in a primary position of leadership. All it does is actually commit us to whipping them into shape and actually teaching them rather than having a repeat of the debacle where Velvet tosses some vague instructions at the Wildhoof club and they do a way unnecessarily brutal pony sacrifice under the belief that The Loremaster ordered it.

Remember that scene? People got really upset at that, and now we're going to repeat it. Haven't we learned through painful experience enough times that Velvet's control freak tendencies aren't actually a bad thing, but in fact exactly what is needed 99% of the time? And we get horribly horribly traumatically punished every time we decide "we wont be a control freak this time and will Trust Her(tm)".

I really want Soft to actually know what she's doing, and that requires us to take an active role.

 

[Nevermort]

To me personally, the problem of removing the Stains has always been a problem for Hour Velvet.

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I don't think it is so, but if we assume that Hour Velvet can deal with Stains and with Wolf in general then there is no reason not to do whatever we wish including taking further Stains while we are at it. Velvet will reach Glory and will banish Wolf's sons and will fix Soft, and will micromanage Wolf cult in Ponyville while at it. Is it not a logical conclusion to proposals to minimize damage right now and just leave everything to Hour Velvet? Even when it comes to taking over cult personally, who would lead it after Velvet ascends?

We could get intel about the Wolf, but what kind of intel and would we even do with it? We could corrupt the Wolf back, but what steps have we taken on that road? We are working with time limit, it is too late to start walking new paths.

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My opinion is that we should at least try to fix things now, instead of leaving everything to Hour Velvet. After we reach Glory we players would not be able to change anything, but if we possess all necessary information beforehand maybe there would be some kind of bonus ending. Like options on what to do in the process of merging with Glory or right before taking it.

Which is why I think getting more information on Wolf is the best option. It is only a chance, but a chance to fix everything. And really Soft killed herself, gets visits from other Sons, leads murderous cult and people afraid of the possibility that things would become a tiny bit worse for her? And willing to screw over everyone in Ponyville over it? Maybe time to start improving things instead?

I guess spreading cult influence is second best opinion. I mean if we don't give them dangerous tools then eventually authorities will manage to deal with them without much trouble. I don't think Hour Velvet will have time to spare on them, being single Hour sounds like 24/7 job.

Taking over cult ourself will take our actions and I think people underestimate how much time it takes for cult to train itself into being useful. For cadre to become functional they all first need to advance in their lores too.

And giving them tools, I honestly don't understand, is it not like the worst option possible ? Velvet have zero control over cult. Soft have barely any control over them and largely unaware of what they are doing. Why people assume that that they will help us in any way instead of starting spawning ash-ghouls on our doorstep? Why leading option is to get ash-ghouls on our doorstep?

 

[DelightedOne]

And giving them tools, I honestly don't understand, is it not like the worst option possible ? Velvet have zero control over cult. Soft have barely any control over them and largely unaware of what they are doing. Why people assume that that they will help us in any way instead of starting spawning ash-ghouls on our doorstep? Why leading option is to get ash-ghouls on our doorstep?

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Oh, that's easy.

1. They think we will benefit no matter the option, even though this was explicitly stated to be a price we are paying.

2. Voting to keep the other 2 serious competitors(influence and inspiration) out.

3. Thinking it is a lesser evil to give them lore, cause we will eventually have lore police.

4. The Twilight bait with Forge's Redemption.

 

[Sk1lz3r]

I have been binging this quest for the past 4 days and managed to catch up. I have never actually voted in a Quest before so I hope I'm not doing it wrong.

Now… I dont quite fully understand the ramifications of influence and that last line of "understanding" and "being so proud of her" sounds just a tad too ominous for me. So I'll

[X] Gift her tools.

 

[Nevermort]

4. The Twilight bait with Forge's Redemption.

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I don't think giving tools includes teaching Lores? And on its own Wolf cult would not have Forge lore to conduct ritual. And Wolf is only Winter and Edge.
So unless I am missing something only rituals they should be able to do would be Winter and Edge related?

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

For what reason

I don't think it is so, but if we assume that Hour Velvet can deal with Stains and with Wolf in general then there is no reason not to do whatever we wish including taking further Stains while we are at it. Velvet will reach Glory and will banish Wolf's sons and will fix Soft, and will micromanage Wolf cult in Ponyville while at it. Is it not a logical conclusion to proposals to minimize damage right now and just leave everything to Hour Velvet? Even when it comes to taking over cult personally, who would lead it after Velvet ascends?


My opinion is that we should at least try to fix things now, instead of leaving everything to Hour Velvet. After we reach Glory we players would not be able to change anything, but if we possess all necessary information beforehand maybe there would be some kind of bonus ending. Like options on what to do in the process of merging with Glory or right before taking it.

Which is why I think getting more information on Wolf is the best option. It is only a chance, but a chance to fix everything. And really Soft killed herself, gets visits from other Sons, leads murderous cult and people afraid of the possibility that things would become a tiny bit worse for her? And willing to screw over everyone in Ponyville over it? Maybe time to start improving things instead?

I guess spreading cult influence is second best opinion. I mean if we don't give them dangerous tools then eventually authorities will manage to deal with them without much trouble. I don't think Hour Velvet will have time to spare on them, being single Hour sounds like 24/7 job.

Taking over cult ourself will take our actions and I think people underestimate how much time it takes for cult to train itself into being useful. For cadre to become functional they all first need to advance in their lores too.

And giving them tools, I honestly don't understand, is it not like the worst option possible ? Velvet have zero control over cult. Soft have barely any control over them and largely unaware of what they are doing. Why people assume that that they will help us in any way instead of starting spawning ash-ghouls on our doorstep? Why leading option is to get ash-ghouls on our doorstep?

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Why are you assuming they will be dumping ash-ghouls on our doorstep? What need do they have for ash-ghouls? Their self-appointed purpose is to serve Soft Sweeps, does Soft Sweeps need Ash Ghouls for something?

The best limiter on this cult's behavior at this point in time is Soft Sweeps. Taking Soft Sweeps to Narrative Stain 4 is going to change her more towards the Wolf, specifically past the tipping point where the filth makes up the greater part of the whole.

Finally, I agree that we should try to fix Wolf things before ascending as best we can. I do not assume Hour Velvet can wave a hoof to undo her son's and fix the Wolf Cult and save Soft Sweeps and so on because the Wolf is also an Hour. The Wolf gets a vote. And all he has to do is say "No Velvet, I have need of our Children," and nothing changes. I simply don't think that shoving more Wolf into Soft Sweeps is the way to go about fixing things.

Update: You are thinking of Names only doing Rituals related to their Lores, a full cult is not so limited by pride.

 

[DelightedOne]

I don't think giving tools includes teaching Lores? And on its own Wolf cult would not have Forge lore to conduct ritual. And Wolf is only Winter and Edge.
So unless I am missing something only rituals they should be able to do would be Winter and Edge related?

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Of course it does. If not, they would be useless and a useless gift is no proper gift.

Please remember that Soft has been having lore lessons with Velvet and the rest of the family, meaning the Daughter has been having lore lessons up to level 3.

The Hour worshiped by a cult does not limit the type of ritual or lore they can use, even if a Wolf Cult would favor Winter and Edge, they wouldn't be limited to them.

 

[des-pair-2]

I don't think it is so, but if we assume that Hour Velvet can deal with Stains and with Wolf in general then there is no reason not to do whatever we wish including taking further Stains while we are at it. Velvet will reach Glory and will banish Wolf's sons and will fix Soft, and will micromanage Wolf cult in Ponyville while at it. Is it not a logical conclusion to proposals to minimize damage right now and just leave everything to Hour Velvet? Even when it comes to taking over cult personally, who would lead it after Velvet ascends?

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Please notice that whatever option we pick is the option narratively Velvet picked. The options she goes for informs the priorities she has. Along with the practical calculations, I also don't want Velvet to be the kind of pony to choose Wolf because it is efficient. It is simple as that.

Please remember that Soft has been having lore lessons with Velvet and the rest of the family, meaning the Daughter has been having lore lessons up to level 3.

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She doesn't have any Lores. Except that. When we revived her, we had a choice on what Lore to teach her, and picked to not teach her any.

 

[Portec]

[X] Gift her tools.

Because I can only think of this as the least of the basd options...
And because I want to vote before the time runs out.

 

[DelightedOne]

She doesn't have any Lores.

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She doesn't need to have them to know about them. The lessons apply to all Family members if I recall it correctly.

Tools will be Velvet teaching her the rituals and contextualizing the previous lessons. We did make a primer that could introduce ponies to lore once remember?

When we revived her, we had a choice on what Lore to teach her, and picked to not teach her any.

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Which vote? The closest to that I remember is what she should talk about with her cult and that was for the theme, not a lore.

And completely unrelated but I can't help but be curious.

@OurLadyOfWires is Soft still the only option we have to "pick up the torch" if Velvet dies or did Selene become an option too?

 

[ses]

We haven't taught our family the Lores yet. We're blocked from doing so until Heart 4. Soft has no lores other than STAIN 3.

Tools is the worst option by far. Soft doesn't know what she's doing! She needs Velvet to actually communicate! That means actual leadership not tossing some pocket nukes at them and running off! We've been through this before!

 

[DelightedOne]

We haven't taught our family the Lores yet. We're blocked from doing so until Heart 4.

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???

Stormchaser:
-Lores: Disciple, [SECRET HISTORIES 3] [KNOCK 1]

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You have successfully taught your family about the Lores.

Stormchaser is now a "Disciple", having attained Secret Histories Level 3 and Knock Level 1.

Stormchaser is now "reasonably competent" in identifying the occult. This will keep him safer when he is away from home, but by no means is a guarantee.

Your other daughters have also benefited, but not in a way you can easily quantify.

Further lessons, that will benefit everypony at the same time, will require all your Lores to be at level 4.

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Hello? What do you mean by that?

 

[ses]

-[] [SOCIAL] Teach Rarity, and make her a Seeker.
-[] [SOCIAL] Teach Jade. (Already a Seeker)
-[] [SOCIAL] Teach Fluttershy, and make her a Disciple. (Forbidden)
-[] [SOCIAL] Teach your family the Lores. (Requires "all Lores" to be Level 4 or higher, affects your entire family)

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-[] [SOCIAL] Teach your family the Lores. (Requires "all Lores" to be Level 4 or higher, affects your entire family)

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Soft has never recieved Lore instructions and you can consult the character sheet to confirm that. Her only lore is YOUKNOWWHATYOUDID 3

 

[DelightedOne]

Soft has never recieved Lore instructions and you can consult the character sheet to confirm that. Her only lore is YOUKNOWWHATYOUDID 3

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The contact list is from Velvet's point of view and as I already have shown

You have successfully taught your family about the Lores.

Your other daughters have also benefited, but not in a way you can easily quantify.

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that means we can't see what the lessons did.

 

[Nevermort]

Why are you assuming they will be dumping ash-ghouls on our doorstep? What need do they have for ash-ghouls? Their self-appointed purpose is to serve Soft Sweeps, does Soft Sweeps need Ash Ghouls for something?

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I mean if we taught it to them then logical conclusion is perhaps Velvet need it for something? People generally don't need dead mice but cats still bring them sometimes to their owners, why cults would be different?

Update: You are thinking of Names only doing Rituals related to their Lores, a full cult is not so limited by pride.

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Woodhoof club had all lores because Master was able to teach all lores. Same for Bureau and Velvet. Even Gardeners got many members from original Woodhoof club with different lores.
But Soft does not know all Lores, she is not Velvet and she is not Name, where they are supposed to get lores? Plus they are very specific group so I would not be surprised if Soft chose only those who already had their lores converted to Wolf.

She doesn't need to have them to know about them. The lessons apply to all Family members if I recall it correctly.

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Being vaguely aware about Lores does not help with using them or teaching them to others? You need to actually have them. Soft is Wolf 3, she does not have any other Lores.

 

[SilentPencil]

[X] Gift her freedom.
[X] Gift her influence.

 

[des-pair-2]

Which vote? The closest to that I remember is what she should talk about with her cult and that was for the theme, not a lore.

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It took a while, but I found it.

[] [A Daughter]

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This is what we picked. And while I concede that later it is said she learns just like other family members, the other options were made with the expectation that she will be used like a normal follower. That is to say, right now her Lore skills are about as vague as Silky's.

Edit: Right, this vote was after the Changeling Massacre, not after her death. My apologies.

 

[DelightedOne]

Being vaguely aware about Lores does not help with using them or teaching them to others? You need to actually have them. Soft is Wolf 3, she does not have any other Lores.

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Already answered that.

Tools will be Velvet teaching her the rituals and contextualizing the previous lessons. We did make a primer that could introduce ponies to lore once remember?

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This is a gift. If we give her Tools we will also tell her how to use them, even give pretty instructions if it is necessary.

Please, do not think Tools will be a "gotcha" choice where the Wolf cult has the rituals but gets the Incompetent Celebrant malus.

 

[ses]

This is a gift. If we give her Tools we will also tell her how to use them, even give pretty instructions if it is necessary.

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-You will not give her any directions of what to do, exactly. And she will understand that you trust her, and that this is a test.

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She will explicitly not receive any instructions about the wider metaphysics of the setting or literally anything except how to use rituals.

 

[DelightedOne]

This is what we picked. And while I concede that later it is said she learns just like other family members, the other options were made with the expectation that she will be used like a normal follower.

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Ah, I got it now. The vote do decide how we would use her.
You said "when we revived her" so I thought it was something else.

You do remember that was 5 turns before her death right? And that she would have followed regular lore mechanics if not for the Seed?

That is to say, right now her Lore skills are about as vague as Silky's.

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And don't you think that is suspicious when we know she had Heart? The Stain is clearly masking all of her natural lore behind the influence of the Wolf.

And considering Silky got a Cutie Mark with all the lores I'm pretty sure the level 4 lessons will reveal very familiar affinities.

She will explicitly not receive any instructions about the wider metaphysics of the setting or literally anything except how to use rituals.

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Wasn't that refering to how Velvet won't tell her what to do with the knowledge? And that anything she does with the knowledge will be part of the test?

That is how I thought it would go. The option talks about it being a show of trust so Tools being a literal test makes sense.

 

[Venerable Ro]

[X] Gift her freedom.

Active direction is by far the preferred choice over self-taught cultists trying to interpret whatever oracular reactions an unknowing Soft would have to the other options.

 

[spiderhellian]

We already know that reaching a non-Wolf ending undoes the Stains because we were explicitly told that going up to 6/7 stains would not block other endings and that doing so would not alter the epilogue of the other endings. Therefore the Stains must get undone by other endings.

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I don't agree with the inference or chain of logic here.

We're not going to be surprised by something that has very long term consequences. In the context of that statement, we're not going to do a sacrament with Mareinette and wind up forced into an epilogue that is an all you can eat buffet for Alukites.

….Stains are regrettable actions. They're the opposite of surprising long term consequences, that's their very nature. Assuming they'll be easily disposed of in-epilogue seems deeply overconfident.

 

[Arrkhon]

So why are people so adamant against helping this cult out anyway? Outside of killing members that get overly intense they are a therapy group that helps them manage their pain by turning it into a sign of love for what they lost, their direction seems to be influenced by Harmony significantly more than the Wolf and I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they could end up soothing the Wolf way down the line in the epilogue

 

[ses]

I don't agree with the inference or chain of logic here.

We're not going to be surprised by something that has very long term consequences. In the context of that statement, we're not going to do a sacrament with Mareinette and wind up forced into an epilogue that is an all you can eat buffet for Alukites.

….Stains are regrettable actions. They're the opposite of surprising long term consequences, that's their very nature. Assuming they'll be easily disposed of in-epilogue seems deeply overconfident.

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I should clarify that I don't think that the consequences of their actions will be undone, but that the Stains as ongoing effects will stop existing after Velvet dies or ascends. The text is very clear that if Velvet dies the Stains will stop existing, and ascending would follow the same logic as well. So the Ashen Wastes would still be the Ashen Wastes, but would no longer have Ash stalking them. And the societal effects of the Catastrophe's aftermath would still be a thing but the -5 would go away. So on and so forth.

The core point is that we are not forced to go through some special sidequest requiring hurting Soft Sweeps just for the sake of not going into the epilogue with Stains making Hour Velvet "corrupted". The Glory Ending is the Glory Ending. Not that the consequences that have already occurred will be undone.

 

[Sk1lz3r]

Okay so the vote tally tool is not counting my vote. Anyone know what I did wrong in my

-snip-

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previous post?

 

[Arrkhon]

Okay so the vote tally tool is not counting my vote. Anyone know what I did wrong in my

previous post?

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You didn't press the new tally button, by default it shows the last tally rather than making a new one

 

[Earth-Destroyer]

We are at most 3-4 turns away from the final mission. Another cult does nothing for us.

 

[ses]

We are at most 3-4 turns away from the final mission. Another cult does nothing for us.

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We are 4 turns away from having a cult at all with the Bureau. If you're so pessimistic on turns until All In then dont use the phrase "Another" cult, since this cult comes online faster than the one you dont think will be online at all. The entire reason we voted for a prisoner this turn is because we DONT think that 3 turns is enough for All In. We're capturing a prisoner for Mareinette, we're Soothing the Night with Selene AP, and we're teaching the Bureau with our Commissioner action. We've already committed to not going All In within the next three turns in three different ways.