Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

[Greymere]

Is this our first actual tie? I think it is. We've had some close calls before, but they always broke just before the voting period finished.

 

[Oblex]

[X] Gift her freedom.
[X] Gift her tools.

The former is my preferred option, I'll remove the latter if it stops freedom from winning.
I have more reasoning/thought but expressing/writing here is hard and I lack time. Short summary below:

- Inspiration. No. Leave Our Precious Softy Alone Thanks.
- Influence. Ah yes the force multiplier option. No.
- Tools. Distribute free guns to suspected terrorists. Still very bad but less bad than other options. We already know ash ghouls are easy to acquire anyway and they'll do that without us.
- Nothing. This is just inspiration^2. NO.
- Freedom. Permanently costs an action. Big ouch. Less stuff we can do. Most options over the current disaster and fits narratively with violet's controlling tendencies. We should've curbed this earlier, now we're paying for it. We'll keep paying for it unless we do something.

Edit: Softy's cult isn't perfectly wolf aligned, they don't want it all to end yet. There's an opportunity for us for us to push here and redirect it to something healthier/more normal. It will be hard but worst case is similar to the likely tools outcome anyway.
Likely tools outcome being that haven given terrorists guns they do terrorist things and then us as commission has to step in, cult gets killed/arrested, innocent casualties, softy implicated, have to use nepotism to try and bail her out. With freedom's failure this could happen in a less directly bloody manner but we would also be implicated.

Edit 2: Based solely off my knowledge of canon cultist simulator, the moth book appears to be about either the Long/Port Noon or The Painted River/The Vagabond, possibly both. The immortal Long can drink from the spring in Port Noon and forgetting/being forgotten and retiring there to live out their eternity in idle pleasures. This stops them from climbing the mansus. They do this to escape the otherwise Hour enforced inevitable fate of conscription or death. There isn't a river explicitly mentioned here to my recollection, but there is the special spring and Port Noon is built by the sea so presumably a river connects the two? Perhaps The Vagabond is facilitating/patronising the writer's escape, perhaps the Painted River is connected to Port Noon somehow?

Edit 3: Damnit @Talon Tiger Dino I meant that tools is bad but that's still better than influence. As in the difference between an isolated terrorist attack and handing control of the entire town to said terrorists, to become a terrorist recruiting centre to then affect the rest of Equestria. Still agree that freedom is our best option.

 

[Shaper47]

Furthermore, this missive seems to be surprisingly safe and tame, considering how old it is.

You should not expect this from other pieces of writing of this age.

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Right, so I was kinda surprised at the lack of trait or other goodie from the book. 5+ books are special remember. But it seems the books safety had something to do about that.

Should probably remember to get more winter or at least have a personal max Winter influence at the same time as we go Even Further Beyond with Baldomare's lantern influence to get Moth 6.

 

[Witherbrine2671]

[X] Gift her inspiration

Knowing the line is important, that way we can make informed choices

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

[X] Gift her freedom
[X] Gift her influence

All right, I've been convinced that just chucking murder rituals to Soft Sweeps miiiiight be subpar. Plus if we really shape this cult and can set Soft Sweeps to a higher involvement level, perhaps we can ask her with help reforming the Wolf, make that the big thing to help with. After all, the Wolf Divided is one of the few things Velvet cannot arbitrarily handle as an Hour, so best to get our ground game against him running as soon as possible.

Seriously, think about it, they are a weird Wolf therapy group, so turn them into a therapy group for the Wolf. It'll be the cult equivalent of turning some of his power into a particularly spicy pacemaker, it'll be great.

 

[Earth-Destroyer]

We cannot afford to lose out on an action when we are so close to to the final mission. The cult would not give us anything as we will win before it could possible pay off. The timeline for the cult being an overall positive is like 8-10 turns minimum. It two turns of nothing just to get the cult to minimum capability IE what the turn 1 cult was, then at least 3 mores turns to expand it to the point it can do well anything. When we are on track to win in 4-5 turns, it not even close to breaking even action wise.

Soft Sweeps can handle the town just fine, and frankly would be a better then mayor mare anyway.

 

[Greymere]

We cannot afford to lose out on an action when we are so close to to the final mission. The cult would not give us anything as we will win before it could possible pay off. The timeline for the cult being an overall positive is like 8-10 turns minimum. It two turns of nothing just to get the cult to minimum capability IE what the turn 1 cult was, then at least 3 mores turns to expand it to the point it can do well anything. When we are on track to win in 4-5 turns, it not even close to breaking even action wise.

Soft Sweeps can handle the town just fine, and frankly would be a better then mayor mare anyway.

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We don't need them to be a huge, town-spanning cult. We need to make sure they make their entrance into the moonlit world in a well-controlled manner to avoid any accidental faceplanting into Wolf nonsense and to make sure we're giving Soft actual guidance and help instead of giving her something without any direction at all. We'd really like ritual support and some go-fers to dig up new expedition sites and look for new books. Soft's existing gathering should be just fine for that.

 

[Shaper47]

All right, I've been convinced that just chucking murder rituals to Soft Sweeps miiiiight be subpar

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Chucking healing rituals on the other hoof is also part of the deal.

Besides don't you trust our daughter?

She can heal her little friends of any maiming or serious mental issues if she has healing rituals.

Plus if we really shape this cult and can set Soft Sweeps to a higher involvement level, perhaps we can ask her with help reforming the Wolf, make that the big thing to help with.

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I'm pretty sure this falls under Inspiration.

How can you reform what you do not know afterall.

Seriously, think about it, they are a weird Wolf therapy group, so turn them into a therapy group for the Wolf. It'll be the cult equivalent of turning some of his power into a particularly spicy pacemaker, it'll be great.

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I don't think things work like that.

It's Velvet's influence on the Wolf only, no other force in the world influences the Wolf.

After all, the Wolf Divided is one of the few things Velvet cannot arbitrarily handle as an Hour, so best to get our ground game against him running as soon as possible.

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Maybe?

Shugs shoulders, we really don't know enough to say.

We know that Velvet can influence/corrupt the Wolf changing them but we don't know the details.

We need to either study the Stains or pick Inspiration or do another RA to find out more.

 

[Greymere]

[X] Gift her freedom
[X] Gift her influence

All right, I've been convinced that just chucking murder rituals to Soft Sweeps miiiiight be subpar. Plus if we really shape this cult and can set Soft Sweeps to a higher involvement level, perhaps we can ask her with help reforming the Wolf, make that the big thing to help with. After all, the Wolf Divided is one of the few things Velvet cannot arbitrarily handle as an Hour, so best to get our ground game against him running as soon as possible.

Seriously, think about it, they are a weird Wolf therapy group, so turn them into a therapy group for the Wolf. It'll be the cult equivalent of turning some of his power into a particularly spicy pacemaker, it'll be great.

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Could I then perhaps interest you in only voting for Freedom, now that Freedom and Tools are equalized and Influence is pulling ahead? Freedom is the only way we're really going to have the opportunity to shape the cult after all!

 

[Earth-Destroyer]

We don't need them to be a huge, town-spanning cult. We need to make sure they make their entrance into the moonlit world in a well-controlled manner to avoid any accidental faceplanting into Wolf nonsense and to make sure we're giving Soft actual guidance and help instead of giving her something without any direction at all. We'd really like ritual support and some go-fers to dig up new expedition sites and look for new books. Soft's existing gathering should be just fine for that.

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Soft can do that her self without us taking over, and losing a much more valuable Velvet action. Again the cult flat out cannot possible be useful as by the time Velvet's gotten even one action worth anything out of the cult, the game is already over.

 

[Greymere]

Soft can do that her self without us taking over, and losing a much more valuable Velvet action. Again the cult flat out cannot possible be useful as by the time Velvet's gotten even one action worth anything out of the cult, the game is already over.

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Soft doesn't know she's the leader of a cult, and explicitly will still be ignorant about it if we pick tools (and presumably the same applies to influence). How exactly do you expect her to organize a cult properly when, again, she does not even realize there is a cult to be organized and Tools/Influence continue to leave her completely in the dark about that fact?

 

[Cochimetl]

Frankly, as long as neither Tools nor Nothing wins, I'll be happy. I'd like Inspiration to win, because we're flying blind and this is a rare opportunity to find out more without making the world worse, but Influence is fine from the perspective of damage control, and Freedom is the most expensive and so hopefully the least harmful.

As long as we don't teach the bunch of unstable adepts how to summon Wendigos, I'm happy. I remember how it turned out last time.

 

[Shaper47]

As long as we don't teach the bunch of unstable adepts how to summon Wendigos, I'm happy. I remember how it turned out last time.

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That's a completely different situation.

There's a big difference between trusting our daughter and the Master acting without the vital information we had kept secret from her.

The Wendigos were used to attack Changelings anyway it was only due to all other paths seeming to have failed along with time running out that pushed the Master to take such extreme measures.

 

[Cochimetl]

That's a completely different situation.

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How can you tell? If we hand out the Wendigo Ritual, and it never gets used, then it was a different situation. If it does get used, it's similar enough in my book.
The problem is we can't know now which one it is.

Also, to be frank, I don't trust your opinion on this, considering your history. Tools is a way for the influence of the Wolf to spread, even if indirectly and potentially not realized.

 

[Absinthe69]

[X] Gift her tools.

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

It's Velvet's influence on the Wolf only, no other force in the world influences the Wolf.

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Seeing as how Wires talked about how Soft Sweeps might turn the Wolf into a therapy pup, this specific bit is incorrect. Velvet stopped being the only lens when she forced the Daughter into being.

[X] Gift her freedom

Since apparently this is the one where Velvet might actually explain things to Soft without increasing her wolfiness.

 

[Shaper47]

Seeing as how Wires talked about how Soft Sweeps might turn the Wolf into a therapy pup, this specific bit is incorrect. Velvet stopped being the only lens when she forced the Daughter into being.

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Via the actions of Velvet Covers.

Besides I still don't see how that would have the cult effect the wolf as you have stated?

Since apparently this is the one where Velvet might actually explain things to Soft without increasing her wolfiness.

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It is however the one that has Velvet show the least amount of trust in Soft Sweeps.

Even ignoring all the mechanical downsides (which are massive).

If you wanted Soft Sweeps to influence the Wolf in the future you basically require Velvet to trust Soft in that process.

I don't see how Velvet specifically not trusting Soft would lead to helping your future goals.

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

Via the actions of Velvet Covers.

Besides I still don't see how that would have the cult effect the wolf as you have stated?



It is however the one that has Velvet show the least amount of trust in Soft Sweeps.

If you wanted Soft Sweeps to influence the Wolf in the future you basically require Velvet to trust Soft in that process.

I don't see how Velvet specifically not trusting Soft would lead to helping your future goals.

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If one the Wolf's primary lenses and said lens' apertures all start bending it to a new purpose, then it's effects on the world will change. If successfully used to help someone heal, then they will have shatter a central axiom of the Wolf-Divided, that nothing good ever comes from the Wolf-Divided. That sort of thing has weight, especially since the Mansus reflects the Wake as much as the Wake does the Mansus.

As for trust, my trust in someone's ability to do something will increase if that person receives instruction and training in the thing I want doing.

 

[Shaper47]

As for trust, my trust in someone's ability to do something will increase if that person receives instruction and training in the thing I want doing.

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As far as I'm aware though instructions and training are not really included in the Freedom option though?

Tools gives training, Inspiration gives instruction, Influence gives responsibility and Freedom gives, well, freedom. Only Freedom involves not teaching Soft anything new or preparing her for the future.

(Nothing gives Inspiration)

 

[DelightedOne]

It is however the one that has Velvet show the least amount of trust in Soft Sweeps.

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My dear Shaper, in this case the show of trust comes later.

There would also be more personal matters to look into. For example, there would be probably a vote to determine Soft's place in the cult, and how much you want her involved (with more involvement meaning a happier Soft, but I can see a part of Velvet recoiling at giving her more Wolf exposure, for obvious reasons).

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We offer some of Velvet's expertise as a cultist and then we chose how much we trust Soft woth a proper cult.

 

[Shaper47]

We offer some of Velvet's expertise as a cultist and then we chose how much we trust Soft woth a proper cult.

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Huh, so it is.

It's probably still less trust then just teaching the rituals but at least it's something.

Still probably the second least trusting of all option though.

Anyways, I still don't think we have the ap to spare for this sort of thing.

Sigh, I always though if we were going to be imitating the Master and setting up our own secret cult we'd be fobbing off most of the running (ap) on Rarity.

Maybe if I thought the thread was able to prioritize and not waste ap almost every turn or willing to actually sabotage Celestia/Eclipse it might have been possible.

But frankly as we are I don't think we can manage juggling a wolf cult on top of our existing priorities.

 

[DelightedOne]

Anyways, I still don't think we have the ap to spare for this sort of thing.

Sigh, I always though if we were going to be imitating the Master and setting up our own secret cult we'd be fobbing off most of the running (ap) on Rarity.

Maybe if I thought the thread was able to prioritize and not waste ap almost every turn or willing to actually sabotage Celestia/Eclipse it might have been possible.

But frankly as we are I don't think we can manage juggling a wolf cult on top of our existing priorities.

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Well, I do have the wild theory we could just dump the cult on Soft and get the AP back when we are done organizing it. But it is just a theory.

 

[Shaper47]

Well, I do have the wild theory we could just dump the cult on Soft and get the AP back when we are done organizing it. But it is just a theory.

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I wish that were possible or at least dumping it on Velvet's trusted friend Mareinette but I heavily doubt we're allowed to do that.

I'm pretty sure this is more like our deal with Comet. Not something we're allowed to cheat on.

 

[Sk1lz3r]

You know what? I am convinced.

[X] Gift her influence

*edit* and after a quick tally it seems my vote is the tiebreaker for Influence, unless someone else comes in and changes their mind.

 

[Uruguayan spider]

[X] Gift her influence.

 

[Arrkhon]

Now I think about it aren't we hiding the truth about nearly everything form the poor Soft? I wonder if she will learn the truth through her brothers rather than us if things will continue like this

 

[ses]

Now I think about it aren't we hiding the truth about nearly everything form the poor Soft? I wonder if she will learn the truth through her brothers rather than us if things will continue like this

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Gee I wonder if we should maybe communicate and Gift Her Freedom instead of causing problems for ourselves later.

 

[Arrkhon]

Gee I wonder if we should maybe communicate and Gift Her Freedom instead of causing problems for ourselves later.

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I am quite certain that the freedom we are gifting her there is the freedom from knowledge that her friends are actually her followers and other Lore related things rather than a freedom from having to organize them themselves

[] Gift her freedom.
-"Now this is quite a fine group of friends you have made Softy. Would you mind if I joined you next week as well?"
-Velvet Covers will permanently lose one Action Point per turn.
-Velvet Covers will assume control over Soft Sweeps' nascent "gathering," and will be given options to direct it each turn.

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Does any of this looks like we plan to tell her anything? For that matter how would it be a gift of freedom if we did?

 

[ses]

I am quite certain that the freedom we are gifting her there is the freedom from knowledge that her friends are actually her followers and other Lore related things rather than a freedom from having to organize them themselves

Does any of this looks like we plan to tell her anything? For that matter how would it be a gift of freedom if we did?

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The QM literally said we would get a vote on how much to involve her. Freedom is the ONLY option where we tell Soft the things she needs to be told and have her in charge of her cult while knowing what she's doing.

There would also be more personal matters to look into. For example, there would be probably a vote to determine Soft's place in the cult, and how much you want her involved (with more involvement meaning a happier Soft, but I can see a part of Velvet recoiling at giving her more Wolf exposure, for obvious reasons).

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