Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

[ses]

There is one other organization which could summon Biedde if we let them grow: the Eclipse.
Smiles seems to only be reachable through Sacrament with Biedde. Biedde, however, stands guard over the Worm Museum, Eclipse could reach him if we let them...

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There is zero chance Midday reaches the Museum before we reach Glory even if we defuse the Celestia clock and take our time preparing for All In. He isn't even Branded as of turn 21.

Biedde may have given his contact ritual to Steppes and any other acolytes he made behind our backs, but Steppes/other acolytes he's gathered wont have the Lore chops to actually succeed at the ritual any time soon. I very much doubt he gave the summoning ritual to Eclipse. The Master didn't even give out his own summoning ritual until one of his cultists reached the Branding Door on their own.

 

[excedere]

Woof, great to check in and see updates. But oh boy do I wish we could sidestep and get the Wolf-Divided's sacrament right away What a great hive infiltration and combat! What fateful rolls against Biedde! I'm on the edge of my seat! Between Beidde or Smiles, though, I have to say I'm torn...but time to mull it over!

 

[DelightedOne]

Anyway. Smiles. Obviously Smiles. C'mon. Narratively it may make more sense to go with the Colonel, but fuck that. I want my happy ending.

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I don't think it does, Velvet has gone against the Colonel a few times already.

1. Betraying the Wildhoof Club. With Lionsmith laughter!
2. Causing Major change to the Wake and Mansus.
3. Making certain regrettable monsters.
4. Saving Comet from Conscription by recruiting Kindness and choosing not to force him into service later.

The last one is actually the most severe offense.

The only Colonel similarity is that she is an authority figure.

 

[ses]

[] You will take Smiles' offer.
-You will receive Sacrament from Smiles, the Name of Edge (and not from the Lionsmith. "You are too frail to meet my Lord! And don't worry, this won't hurt a bit.")
-Smiles will be immediately summoned in the place of Biedde, for free, as if he had been summoned at the beginning of Turn 23.
-Smiles may be Befriended, and finds deep humor in being (according to him) an objectively better choice than his corrival.
-Narratively, you will NOT align yourself with the Lionsmith, and Smiles specifically wishes for this option to be as tempting as possible, with as few strings attached as he can offer it with.
-However, Biedde will become an enemy of your faction. He will immediately un-summon himself, and will refuse future summons from your faction.

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How does accessing the Mansus work if this option is chosen? Don't we need to pass by the Museum in order to reach the Summit? Isn't Biedde extremely capable of killing us in the Mansus?

 

[Shaper47]

But does who we learn from really matter or is it just a honor thing? Both are Sacraments after all.

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The Colonel has giant warning signs everywhere.

There's a reason I've brought it up repeatedly in the past. A Sacrament to the Colonel is not something that can be taken back.

The real issue is that Biedde is really good at guard duty. Like, if we could trust the thread to have Selene guard it wouldn't be too much of a deal breaker but as it is we'd be leaving ourselves and the family very vulnerable.

Biedde is basically making assaults very hard against us which has saved our skins before.

So we really should keep Biedde around if we want to not get spawn camped right before we reach the finish line.

 

[DelightedOne]

On the other hand... A Befriended Edge Name could help in All In and Biedde can't leave his post.

Even if he leaves his post a befriended Smiles wouldn't let Velvet be killed like that. Or honestly any other Name we will have befriended, they all could come and protect Velvet from Biedde or at least stall him.

Plus we have a ton of expeditions to go to 3 of them are short and one of them may very likely have clues about Neighnia.

 

[ses]

The real issue is that Biedde is really good at guard duty. Like, if we could trust the thread to have Selene guard it wouldn't be too much of a deal breaker but as it is we'd be leaving ourselves and the family very vulnerable.

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We have 2 constables guarding every turn, and Velvet will be Edge 5 if she takes the Sacrament. That's frankly more than good enough for everyday home protection. We've only ever had one home invasion and that was at the cumulation of an occult war that made absolutely no secret where it was going.

@OurLadyOfWires As I understand it, if Smiles gets summoned for free he will have a standard 3 turn summoning, correct? And will only start asking for follower actions at the END of turn 25? Where it'll.... be a pattern of 1 follower action on turn 26, 2 follower actions turn 27, 3 on turn 28? And so on until we can no longer pay?

[TROUBLEMAKER]: Once per turn, Smiles may lead one assault (or one Short Expedition) without spending any action points.

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Does "Capture Steppes alive and... unspoiled... and bring him to me" count as an Assault if we say it in our best Dark Lord voice?

 

[Shaper47]

We have 2 constables guarding every turn, and Velvet will be Edge 5 if she takes the Sacrament. That's frankly more than good enough for everyday home protection.

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Velvet does get injured a lot though.

Like, we have an injury now and are going to have poisoned blood in a bit.

Also don't overestimate Velvet, she best when she can prepare. Going in a fight with only two wounds and a 34 bonus isn't that good.

We've only ever had one home invasion and that was at the cumulation of an occult war that made absolutely no secret where it was going.

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There's also Windy who could easily send a Windigo.

There's the Changelings who could send an assault to assassinate the Luna Bureau's leader.

Then there's nobles who don't want to be next on the chopping block.

A Winter Name.

Also outside threats who would want to knock down a pillar of Equestria.

We've got a pretty big list of people who could easily want Velvet killed here.

 

[DelightedOne]

If I understood things correctly, voting for Proto-Hive rewards should be open now.

[X] Plan: Delighted Wants These
-[X] (MAP) Destroy it.
-[X] (PRISONER) Take him.
-[X] (LOOT) I will do the right thing, and not steal.
-[X] (THING) Capture it.

[X] Plan: Open Source Lores

 

[Shaper47]

[X] Plan: Compromising more than only a little
-[X] (MAP) Let the Bureau have it.
-[X] (PRISONER) Take him.
-[X] (LOOT) I will steal from the poor, innocent pony prisoners.
-[X] (THING) Capture it.

No throwing away bits, that's what we came for.

 

[Sk1lz3r]

First of all- the Proto Hive. Everyone feels "so bad" for the changelings. Need I remind you that they MURDERED soft sweeps family? They are not innocent little fillies. Let the Bureau have the map. Lets not be petty over 50 bits and I don't really see much benefit from the prisoner, we need the leash. Also, there are in my opinion no bad results from taking the thing. Thus:
[X] Plan: Don't Bother With the Small Stuff

Now, for the second thing:

THERE IS NO WAY IN HELL THAT WE ARE EVER ALIGNING OURSELVES WITH THE FUCKING COLONEL.

SCREW mechanics, SCREW narritive, SCREW everything else!

NO.

 

[Greymere]

[X] Plan: Don't Bother With the Small Stuff
-[X] (MAP) Let the Bureau have it.
-[X] (PRISONER) Leave him.
-[X] (LOOT) I will do the right thing, and not steal.
-[X] (THING) Capture it.

Frankly, between Smiles being actually befriendable, and therefore able to become personally loyal to us and come along into All In, and in the interest of not binding ourselves in eternal servitude and potentially poisoning our epilogue... Biedde vs Smiles is a very easy choice for me.

Team Lionsmith, let's go!

[X] You will take Smiles' offer.

 

[Arrkhon]

[X] Plan: Open Source Lores
-[X] (MAP) Let the Bureau have it.
-[X] (PRISONER) Take him.
-[X] (LOOT) I will do the right thing, and not steal.
-[X] (THING) Capture it.

[X] Plan: Don't Bother With the Small Stuff

[X] You will take Smiles' offer.

 

[DelightedOne]

Everyone feels "so bad" for the changelings. Need I remind you that they MURDERED soft sweeps family? They are not innocent little fillies.

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Did you watch mlp and saw them turn a new leaf and are aware they can change for the better?

Did you miss how in both this quest and canon they have an insatiable hunger that would kill them if they did not eat? Here it is worse since they were cursed injustly.

Those of us who pity the Changelings admit they did very very evil acts, but honestly, who would chose to die of hunger when you could just feed.

 

[Sk1lz3r]

Did you watch mlp and saw them turn a new leaf and are aware they can change for the better?

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Yes. I know. Doesn't change the fact that they razed canterlot to the ground. They did not need to do that to "feed themselves". Don't woobify these sad sacks of chitin.

They have the right to feed themselves, and we have the right to not be kidnapped or fed upon. They got what was coming to them.

 

[DelightedOne]

Yes. I know. Doesn't change the fact that they razed canterlot to the ground. They did not need to do that to "feed themselves". Don't woobify these sad sacks of chitin. They got what was coming to them.

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Evil also had a hand in it and Chrysalis was a cruel and authoritarian queen. Once again I have to point out that most of us would have done the same if we were changelings, because if being good literally kills you you have good incentive to be evil.

And I'm not woobifying them, I just look at the bigger picture and realize that punishing instead of saving only creates more pain in the end.

 

[ses]

Frankly, between Smiles being actually befriendable, and therefore able to become personally loyal to us and come along into All In, and in the interest of not binding ourselves in eternal servitude and potentially poisoning our epilogue... Biedde vs Smiles is a very easy choice for me.

Team Lionsmith, let's go!

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Don't necessarily knock the Coward's Path though. If you're in camp "Celestia levels Lantern once per turn every turn, and we need to All In within 4 turns" we almost certainly won't Befriend Smiles in that time anyway. And Befriending him probably requires figuring out some way of perma-killing Biedde. We have the option of not taking Biedde as an enemy at the cost of not getting a marginal Sacrament.

Rule One is "Dont make an enemy of a Name", Rule Two is "Summoning Names is always correct", Rule Three is "losing the bindings of Names is always wrong". We've learned those rules... painfully over the course of this quest after all. Getting a Name-summoning ritual is hella better of a payoff for an AP than a Sacrament get tbh.

I'm leaning Lionsmith too in full disclosure, but I wanted to make sure that Coward's Path is given the fair shake it deserves.

But yes from the perspective of "Team 4 turns to All In", Smiles offers an excellent bribe in summoning himself for FREE, with presumably 3 full turns of bindings before we start paying. Every single ritual and AP is a non-trivial percentage of our remaining resources after all. Plus of course the excellent bribe of an unproblematic Sacrament that neither poisons our epilogue or is a Regrettable Action. The cost of course is the unknown level of danger Biedde poses as our enemy and what preparations he made in the Wake over the last four turns.

From the perspective of "6+ Turns to All In, we can defuse Celestia since we've been paying Selene AP to do exactly that", the free summoning matters less but Befriendability matters more. But in the 4-6 turn range we start looking harder at the Coward's Path and thinking "micromanaging isn't that expensive compared to all the Name AP having both of them summoned gives in free guard actions and free expedition AP and regular Name AP. Plus I'm pretty sure we dont need to pay micromanagement cost if we send Biedde on a Long Monster Hunt"

 

[Sk1lz3r]

Once again I have to point out that most of us would have done the same if we were changelings, because if being good literally kills you you have good incentive to be evil.

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So if a magical serial killer is going to kill you because they need to kill one specific person a day to stay alive, you should just let them do it because they "have no choice"?

Sure, they can do what they need to do. But we are allowed to take exception to it. Doesn't mean we have to forgive them for what they "needed" to do either.

 

[Shaper47]

Evil also had a hand in it and Chrysalis was a cruel and authoritarian queen

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Hey!

Evil had nothing to do with that it was all Chrysalis.

Rule One is "Dont make an enemy of a Name", Rule Two is "Summoning Names is always correct", Rule Three is "losing the bindings of Names is always wrong". We've learned those rules... painfully over the course of this quest after all.

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Wisely said.

Besides having Smiles would be a fine addition to our Name collection.

Having as many Names as possible in our house is surely a good idea.

We definitely want to keep grandpa Biedde around to tell stories to the foels as well.

 

[DelightedOne]

So if a magical serial killer is going to kill you because they need to kill one specific person a day to stay alive, you should just let them do it because they "have no choice"?

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Emotional argument. I understand.

But I did not state we should "just let them do it", I said we should keep in mind they are a cursed people and their whole society revolves on keeping that curse at bay.

Humans are not exactly better than changelings so I don't really judge.

Evil had nothing to do with that it was all Chrysalis.

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Really?

-[Wolf, thy name is Evil]: "An old malice has been reintroduced to Equestria, like a wind that brings misfortune or a day where the sun just doesn't shine as bright."
(Equestria is now a worse place.)

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Try harder next time.

 

[Shaper47]

Try harder next time.

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That's a blatant misrepresentation.

People have their own agency you can't just blame everything on our son.

Celestia makes her own choices, Chrysalis makes her own choices, Selene makes her own choices.

If Evil was really that powerful he'd be doing a lot more.

Besides we already now we people are choosing to follow Evil's influence as seen in the Malice is the Intent to Harm interlude.

So no, it was all Chrysalis not Evil.

 

[DelightedOne]

That's a blatant misrepresentation.

People have their own agency you can't just blame everything on our son.

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Fair.

How about "Evil suggested, Chrysalis accepted"?

 

[Sk1lz3r]

But I did not state we should "just let them do it", I said we should keep in mind they are a cursed people and their whole society revolves on keeping that curse at bay.

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I get that. But the "let them do it" is also not the core of my argument.

What I mean to say is that, while you can understand why they do/did what they do/did, and maybe even emphatize with them…

You have no obligation to forgive them for their actions and leave them alone. We are allowed to be angry and strike back.

Just as they are allowed to do things and have determinism, we are allowed to do things and have determinism.

Everyone and everything can do whatever the hell they want, but don't be surprised when someone else reacts badly to what you do.

(On a sidenote: How did things ever get to the point that I feel like I need to enunciate my personal philosofy about life, in an argument about changelings in a Cultist Simulator/MLP crossover quest of al things???)

 

[Shaper47]

Fair.

How about "Evil suggested, Chrysalis accepted"?

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Doesn't really match up with precedent through?

We know from Flower Serenade what Evil suggesting is like and I don't remember anything like that we Chrysalis.

 

[Greymere]

From the perspective of "6+ Turns to All In, we can defuse Celestia since we've been paying Selene AP to do exactly that", the free summoning matters less but Befriendability matters more. But in the 4-6 turn range we start looking harder at the Coward's Path and thinking "micromanaging isn't that expensive compared to all the Name AP having both of them summoned gives in free guard actions and free expedition AP and regular Name AP. Plus I'm pretty sure we dont need to pay micromanagement cost if we send Biedde on a Long Monster Hunt"

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Micromanaging leaves us net zero on AP gained, and Biedde's free action just isn't nearly as valuable now that we don't have a cult attempting to murder us. Smiles's at least can also apply to short expeditions, but at that point it still ends up at "just take Smiles" instead of trying to juggle both and pay both of their costs.

 

[Shaper47]

Micromanaging leaves us net zero on AP gained,

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Free social action though.

and Biedde's free action just isn't nearly as valuable now that we don't have a cult attempting to murder us.

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We do still have a big list of people with a valid reason to try and kill Velvet.

Let's not get killed right before the endgame.

 

[DelightedOne]

You have no obligation to forgive them for their actions and leave them alone. We are allowed to be angry and strike back.

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Yes, that is correct. But you still have that choice and in this case, we could just let them keep what remains of their home and kill any that we find/make trouble.

(On a sidenote: How did things ever get to the point that I feel like I need to enunciate my personal philosofy about life, in an argument about changelings in a Cultist Simulator/MLP crossover quest of al things???)

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That tends to be how things work around here. I personally find it quite fun, people tend to be more honest on the internet and I enjoy seeing different philosophies meet/engage in "combat".

Like what just happened!

We know from Flower Serenade what Evil suggesting is like and I don't remember anything like that we Chrysalis.

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Well, Chrysalis is not a pony so maybe it works differently for her? We also had a vote so it could be that.

She was also mothfucking high on Moth so I don't trust her point of view much.

 

[Shaper47]

Yes, that is correct. But you still have that choice and in this case, we could just let them keep what remains of their home and kill any that we find/make trouble

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We could probably recruit them even.

Lost and searching for meaning, purpose that we can provide.

Now I'm not saying sending Biedde and Mareinette out to recruit the Changelings to join their new cult is a good idea but it is probably possible.

 

[DelightedOne]

Lost and searching for meaning, purpose that we can provide.

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And don't forget our possible alliance with the god that makes monsters.

And possible ascension to goddess. We will need followers.

And less likely but still technically possible contact with a force we have ooc knowledge that can break their curse.

 

[Shaper47]

Actually wait a minute here.

-You will learn how to summon Smiles, and will be permitted to do so. Summoning Smiles, keeping Biedde summoned, or even having both summoned at the same time will not be considered as "joining" either of their sides in their conflict.

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-Smiles is capable of CHANNELING the highest intensity of Edge influence, and gifting it to you for a full month.

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...

It's possible to have multiple Name influences.

So if we have an Edge Influence from Biedde and an Edge Influence from Smiles we could have Velvet or Selene have a plus 80 combat bonus from Edge influences.

Surely absolutely nothing could go wrong from doing such a thing.