Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

[LieutenantSpirit]

We're possibly better off trying to turn our Bureau into eldritch X-Com now that we've got Luna and Candance and Shining solidly on our side.

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Ah, there's always the option to imitate the Suppression Bureau, too.

 

[Spacemurica]

[X][BIEDDE] Send somepony to locate, or spy on, this opponent (Copper Secateur)
I have been convinced

 

[Venerable Ro]

We are sending the Name whose job it was once to hunt traitors, malcontents and revolutionaries to hunt a cult in open rebellion. Careful or not if Biedde has no restrictions on his conduct he will stack bodies or did you fail to read the part where the only reason he spared Steppes and co was because Silky spoke well of him?

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Copper's cult is not in open rebellion, they are as secretive as any other. Our unique position of authority does not cast Copper in any different light, this current conflict is as personal a matter as any other war between adepts. I'm uncertain as to what your specific disagreement is, surely not the idea that an attack on the cult would result in dead cultists? I'm sure I don't need to remind you that this is presumably a Grail cult that has fueled at least one major ritual that we're aware of through blood sacrifice.

So no there wouldn't have been hordes of people suffering from nightmares just every once in a while someone would have a worse one. Now there will be random injuries with no explanation concentrated where the Cultists are, which like you said includes Ponyvile thus bringing scrutiny here.

And that is a big fucking problem.

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We have the eldritch population of Ponyville, who would talk and become restive if they all hit the same problem at once (we have neglected to put any effort into expanding our awareness of the goings-on in town), we have Midday and his Eclipse department with Midday at least on the edge of doing something with this " innovator's curse" business we've heard of at the wedding, We have Copper's lot who definitely need more stress and pressure right now, and we have Windy off doing whatever he's doing. My issue is with harassing everyone at once all of the time, stacking that on top of Paranoia's helpful influence, and hoping it won't be the straw that breaks a camel's back.

I also note that as of this turn we have almost coincidentally achieved a monopoly on the highest level of our Bureau's authority, and we would almost certainly be the ones to investigate mysterious goings-on in Ponyville. Said investigation would be one that we would not be obligated to loop Fair Trial into as long as there weren't any charges filed.

So overall I think things have been going pretty well really, and we're set up to have more things go our way as we continue to climb that ladder named Chaos.

 

[Iustus Vitea]

Copper's cult is not in open rebellion, they are as secretive as any other. Our unique position of authority does not cast Copper in any different light, this current conflict is as personal a matter as any other war between adepts. I'm uncertain as to what your specific disagreement is, surely not the idea that an attack on the cult would result in dead cultists? I'm sure I don't need to remind you that this is presumably a Grail cult that has fueled at least one major ritual that we're aware of through blood sacrifice.

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Firstly Open rebellion is a turn of phrase meaning in rebellion, secondly our opposition doesn't cast them in a worse light but the fact that we as the Pony CIA head have to hunt them down as part of our charter does, the fact they struck at Luna does. And thirdly the difference is in scale, you seem to believe that if we give Biedde permission to do whatever the fuck he wants he'll be a professional and take the Cult apart surgically. I think that's very fucking optimistic and that he will be a professional and will complete the job;

By killing every Cult member as he almost did for Steppes and co.

We have the eldritch population of Ponyville, who would talk and become restive if they all hit the same problem at once (we have neglected to put any effort into expanding our awareness of the goings-on in town), we have Midday and his Eclipse department with Midday at least on the edge of doing something with this " innovator's curse" business we've heard of at the wedding, We have Copper's lot who definitely need more stress and pressure right now, and we have Windy off doing whatever he's doing. My issue is with harassing everyone at once all of the time, stacking that on top of Paranoia's helpful influence, and hoping it won't be the straw that breaks a camel's back.

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????? And suffering injuries (also lasting debuffs) while dreaming won't?

I also note that as of this turn we have almost coincidentally achieved a monopoly on the highest level of our Bureau's authority, and we would almost certainly be the ones to investigate mysterious goings-on in Ponyville. Said investigation would be one that we would not be obligated to loop Fair Trial into as long as there weren't any charges filed.

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We specifically chose the recruitment option that gave us the best of the best in terms of skills and morals so no if an investigation does find something that implicates us we won't be able to push it under the rug.

Whatever, it seems we have irreconcilable differences of opinion. I won't argue this further and waste both of our time.

 

[Bakkasama]

[X][BIEDDE] Send somepony to locate, or spy on, this opponent (Copper Secateur)

[X][BIEDDE] There is something in Canterlot that you simply must find. Look for it.

@OurLadyOfWires any chance we can get a clarification on the following?

Also, can Biedde call an Edge influence on himself if he called one for us on the same turn?

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Because my first thought after reading the fact that it is expected of us to ask Biedde for an Influence before fighting him makes me think that he will also call one for himself immediately afterwards to keep the fight as challenging as a normal Edge sacrament.

 

[angelsadvocate666]

Because my first thought after reading the fact that it is expected of us to ask Biedde for an Influence before fighting him makes me think that he will also call one for himself immediately afterwards to keep the fight as challenging as a normal Edge sacrament.

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…Why would it be expected of us if he's going to immediately negate it by getting a matching +40? At that point we might as well just leave Influences out of it.

The way I see it the Influence is explicitly meant to even the playing field so that there's actually a chance of success, rather than just bulldozing us with a +50 difference. puts the mystical weight at about even so that we have a chance to actually demonstrate skill.

 

[Demilich]

[X][BIEDDE] Send somepony to locate, or spy on, this opponent (Copper Secateur)

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

we have Midday and his Eclipse department with Midday at least on the edge of doing something with this " innovator's curse" business we've heard of at the wedding,

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Did we hear of that at the wedding? We didn't vote for it, after all.

Also yay, spying

 

[Greymere]

@Venerable Ro @Iustus Vitea

I feel like you're both neglecting the option that well. Once exploring the Mansus becomes actively dangerous, a lot (if not most) casual Lore learners would just. Stop going to the Mansus? It's not as though there's a strong motivation for the dabblers to explore the Wastes if they know it's going to get them hurt. It's not like the rank and file ever really cared a lot about climbing the Mansus, iirc. Especially since getting to the Mansus in the first place is difficult for most people.

 

[spiderhellian]

[X][BIEDDE] Ask for an Influence of Edge.

I was struck again by my fear of going on a Manaus expedition with no buffs and 2 HP!

A reminder of things we almost encountered then, and are probably likely to encounter now:

And as you hear the guttural sound of something moving, you realize there is something else here with you.

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Because you are now inside the mind of something very old. Something very old, that has gone insane from millennia of unfulfilled desires. And in its insanity, it has created its own dreams and nightmares to keep it company.

And those nightmares, those many-limbed, thrashing, reaching nightmares are nearby. Maybe they have already caught your scent, and are writhing their way towards you. Maybe they aren't even aware that you are a living pony, and would treat you as they would each other.

Both options, you know, would involve a very unpleasant fate.

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And you don't open your eyes until you can't hear them anymore. Until you can no longer hear the giggles and the moans and the drooling and the sound of something trying to run with fifteen legs that all crawl in different directions.

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I feel there's a chance this expedition has the Grail Heirloom in it? Or at least will get us to the Sacrament barrier for it?

Really want to bring something to it.

 

[Iustus Vitea]

-snip

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I mean I had assumed that and said it at the start it's just that the argument meandered and uhhhhhhh...

A reminder of things we almost encountered then, and are probably likely to encounter now:

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We used another Lore in each of those checks and so avoided damage, using Edge means we're going to get into fights with multiple foes (as it's the Lore with the higher bonus) thus increasing the chance of injuries because there will be more checks we need to pass.

Also, all of those are one thing not multiple; the Grail summon.

 

[spiderhellian]

We used another Lore in each of those checks and so avoided damage, using Edge means we're going to get into fights (as it's the Lore with the higher bonus) thus increasing the chance of injuries because there will be mote checks we need to pass.

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That was from the Edge/Moth check!

And I just don't have faith we'll totally avoid combat here. It's good to have a buff we can use for checks, and for combat if it comes.

Or that having a better Edge modifier will mean there are more checks to pass, that seems silly. Checks don't spawn branching paths like that, as far as we've seen.

 

[Iustus Vitea]

That was from the Edge/Moth check!

And I just don't have faith we'll totally avoid combat here.

Or that having a better Edge modifier will mean there are more checks to pass, that seems silly. Checks don't spawn branching paths like that, as far as we've seen.

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I'm aware from what roll it was what I meant was that if Edge is the roll chosen then we'll be getting into fights and unless the Moth summon has 2 HP and we roll 100 over it's roll then we won't be killing it without a second check, that is assuming there aren't multiple present.

It is always better to avoid fights.

 

[spiderhellian]

I'm aware from what roll it was what I meant was that if Edge is the roll chosen then we'll be getting into fights and unless the Moth summon has 2 HP and we roll 100 over it's roll then we won't be killing it without a second check, that is assuming there aren't multiple present.

It is always better to avoid fights.

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Sorry — you think that if we had used Edge to pass that check, we would have gotten into combat? As opposed to it being like every other check we've seen?

And really, the multi round nature of combat is why a modifier is so damn strong. It really pays dividends, it's hard to come out ahead if you're weaker. Need to get lucky multiple times, not just once.

Maybe another influence would be better. But this is useful and way better than nothing.

 

[Iustus Vitea]

Sorry — you think that if we had used Edge to pass that check, we would have gotten into combat? As opposed to it being like every other check we've seen?

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Yes? That's what Edge checks against opponents lead to.

And really, the multi round nature of combat is why a modifier is so damn strong. It really pays dividends, it's hard to come out ahead if you're weaker. Need to get lucky multiple times, not just once.

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We only need to roll poorly and them well once to take a wound regardless of the bonus and that is assuming there's only one combatant. If there are two unless we kill one of them in the first round we will be taking a wound. So I'm opposed to getting into fights at all.

 

[spiderhellian]

Yes? That's what Edge checks against opponents lead to.

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Oh, I think this is totally wrong.

We've been presented with how expedition obstacles work. You can use one of two lores, roll to best a DC, if you succeed you're through if not [unspecified bad outcome.]

I don't think passing it with Edge… would suddenly put you in that bad outcome state. I think it would be like passing any other check, we'd succeed and move on.

The pass would be flavoured differently, but it would work out the same.

(In that check, probably the fail outcome was combat.)

 

[Iustus Vitea]

I don't think passing it with Edge… would suddenly put you in that bad outcome state. I think it would be like passing any other check, we'd succeed and move on.

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And I think the Edge check is combat. What else could it be? At most passing the Edge check is a successful ambush to get an advantage for the fight but then why get into fights in the first place?

 

[spiderhellian]

I think it's bizarre to imagine that one way of passing an Expedition obstacle… would actually not pass the obstacle, but put you in a tough situation akin to failing the obstacle.

I don't think a better chance of passing rolls will lead to more combat!

(There's a million ways you can fluff something, eg cutting enough the Raw Prophet goes thirsting elsewhere.)

But sure, agree to disagree, we won't really know.

 

[Greymere]

And I think the Edge check is combat. What else could it be? At most passing the Edge check is a successful ambush to get an advantage for the fight but then why get into fights in the first place?

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I mean, we've seen Edge DCs completely unrelated to combat. Understanding the Tribal Door and navigating the Concor Concursurs the broken Chamber of Ways. There may be others but those are the two I remember off the top of my head.

 

[Iustus Vitea]

I mean, we've seen Edge DCs completely unrelated to combat. Understanding the Tribal Door and navigating the Concor Concursurs the broken Chamber of Ways. There may be others but those are the two I remember off the top of my head.

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Yeah but I specified against opponents.

 

[Lorrie]

[X][BIEDDE] Send somepony to locate, or spy on, this opponent (Copper Secateur)

 

[angelsadvocate666]

…Wow. Y'all somehow managed to skip right over the part of that chapter which actually explained what the fuck the checks were.

So, you could try and cut your way through the erratic thoughts of the twisting corridors, or you could try to run through them.

As you hear a sucking, giggling noise coming from nearby, seeing a shadow stretch for way longer than it should from behind a corner, you quickly elect to do the latter.

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The enemies were coming for Velvet, and she had two choices to escape. Cut open a path, or run through the twists and turns. And I'm pretty sure that's a literal cut, not the euphemism for killing things.

No, the Edge roll wasn't going to definitely cause combat. It was attacking the church, not the creatures. It's like with Influences. Same roll, same mechanical result, different flavor.

 

[Iustus Vitea]

…cut open a path through the Church? Wouldn't that be a Forge roll assuming such a thing is even possible for Velvet. I'm assuming we're doing the equivalent of breaking down walls here or something similar.

 

[spiderhellian]

Wow. Y'all somehow managed to skip right over the part of that chapter which actually explained what the fuck the checks were.

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Hahahahaha a reminder to not get into discussions at 2 AM!

But yeah, that makes things pretty unequivocal. Edge is good!

 

[angelsadvocate666]

…cut open a path through the Church? Wouldn't that be a Forge roll assuming such a thing is even possible for Velvet. I'm assuming we're doing the equivalent of breaking down walls here or something similar.

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Funny you should say that, actually.

You might be able to add to the damage and create a path of your own.

But you also notice something else.

You also notice that this place is beautiful.

Not only that. It is both beautiful and somehow familiar.

It is old, for sure. But the mixture of age, beauty, and familiarity are all mixing in your mind to create the acute sense of…

Of melancholy

And you realize that you know this place.

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Consequently, you can see a map of this place just by looking inside yourself.

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This was the Forge/SH roll's solutions. The difference is that those walls were a lot more solid. Like… the difference between a body and a mind. They weren't constantly changing at the time, so a more solid solution was required. It does, however, also speak to a pattern.

Consequently, there are two ways for you to enter it. You can either attempt to see through it and navigate through its lies and invitations, or you can ignore them altogether.

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Two options for each obstacle. Either you navigate your way through a maze, or you dungeon bypass and just bull rush past.

Also, some more contexts that I also forgot which makes it pretty clear being close enough to the monsters to actually fight was a fail state.

[The Things That Lust, cd ???]

[Roll: 53 +12 (Intrigue) + 40 (Moth Level 4) = 105]



You have no intention of staying here to discover what made that noise.

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But for all that you can hear them, you can tell they are still far away… relatively speaking.

So, you could try and cut your way through the erratic thoughts of the twisting corridors, or you could try to run through them.

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[Iustus Vitea]

Right thanks for clearing things up

 

[DelightedOne]

I just noticed Velvet's mother is named Soft Charm... and she has a daughter named Soft Sweeps. No reason to say it, but it is fun.

 

[Pittauro]

Moments like this are why I miss Insightful reacts!

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agreed!

Second, because although it might sound like it makes sense, it doesn't really make that much sense.
Because asking me to give you a "combat" trait to give you some extra combat would mean that Velvet (or any character, really) would learn, within the confines of a month and WHILE working, how to fight better. A character with a combat-related background had their whole lives prior to the quest to get a little better in combat, and Velvet (or any other character) would somehow learn it during the course of two weekends while juggling the rest of their lives.
That isn't possible. Or, at least, it isn't sensible.
BUT...
Here is the catch. Doing that actually IS possible.
It's called learning the Lores.
Velvet is, unironically, one of the best mortal fighters out there, better even than Shining, because she has been learning the metaphysical laws of combat. She is learning that about combat, and also about everything else. That is why this Quest has only been running for 19 months ingame, and I have zero problems justifying how a scarred, traumatized and socially unadjusted noblemare is suddenly the charismatic, energetic and influential character she is today.

So, you already know the way to ask Biedde for "A lesson to give you more personal combat". It is called "Ask for a scrap of Lore".

And I mean this in the best possible way, no barbs intended. And thank you for giving me the chance to clarify this!

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I have a very small counter.

What you're saying makes sense, at least about combat and general bonuses.

but what about health? What about the quest equivalent of reason and passion, which I'm assuming are our "normal" stats?

in game, you can raise your health by just... exercising. The Lores are needed just for the last point, if I remember right.

How would you adapt that? will we get some kind of Heart/Forge Related opportunity to raise our health later? Do we need to develop a ritual? Would you just make that part of the reward for Sacraments, like Heart 5 giving us 5 health?

It is honestly kinda wild to consider just how bullshit Velvet really is. Like, +20 combat is a master among mortals. A master. Shining Armor was legitimately called Heroic at +25. And Velvet has him beat at +29.

And here we are complaining because we still can't reasonably fight an actual demigod of War without cheating really hard.

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Look, we won't be satisfied until we can 1v1 Celestia!

(so MAYBE once we're a Long AND Edge 7 )

To be honest we don't really have a cult so much as a small number of highly skilled associates and trusted confidants. We literally have more Names than mortal minions right now, it's honestly kind of silly. We're possibly better off trying to turn our Bureau into eldritch X-Com now that we've got Luna and Candance and Shining solidly on our side.

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Between the support of TWO Princesses, one of which is the one the Bureau is FORMALLY subordinate, AND the Commissioner, AND the Deputy...

Objectively speaking, people managed coup d'etat with LESS. And we even have the perfect excuse of "We're doing it for Celestia, the actual ruler, too! You SAW how she isolated herself, here is why!" and explain Daybreaker (or just "evil corrupting magic she's struggling to hold at bay")

we probably want more personal loyalty first, but... we might very well fully subvert the bureau even before dealing with Daybreaker. Though there will always be a risk if we try.

We are sending the Name whose job it was once to hunt traitors, malcontents and revolutionaries to hunt a cult in open rebellion. Careful or not if Biedde has no restrictions on his conduct he will stack bodies or did you fail to read the part where the only reason he spared Steppes and co was because Silky spoke well of him?

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Honestly if we want to solve Copper's cult once and for all, I'd propose the following

1) Scry with Baldomare. Get as much intel as we can.

2) Send Axe (general bonus), Biedde (combat), and MAYBE even Mareinette (Grail). They literally cover any possible scenario, are EACH capable of defeating at least a Windigo (except Biedde who could defeat many of them, really), cover lores of Edge, Moth, Knock, Heart and Grail... if we want to be absolutely overkill, we also send Baldomare (to add another +30 to Lantern and SH as well), and we have Names covering 7 out of 9 principles that can quite literally kill an army.

"Attacking" an enemy is a short expedition, right? 5 bits each, 5 days expected, and usually it's 3 obstacles which I can't see us failing. So the actual cost with all 4 names would likely be "have 100 bits to start, but you'll likely only spend 60".

We do this one turn or two, and there's no way Copper's cult survives. And then we can loot them out of all of their bits, artifacts, the manuscripts, "dearm" the Windigoes, probably get Neighnia...


Bird said multiple actions over multiple turns. but 4 Names would likely cover for quite a bit of actions. Even better, we send Velvet too so she can decide in the moment what to do with everything...

yeah, I'm actually liking this. MAYBE not next turn, but the one after we might very well deal with Copper once and for all.

And if she dares to attack us this turn, well, that does it for me.

Copper's cult is not in open rebellion, they are as secretive as any other. Our unique position of authority does not cast Copper in any different light, this current conflict is as personal a matter as any other war between adepts. I'm uncertain as to what your specific disagreement is, surely not the idea that an attack on the cult would result in dead cultists? I'm sure I don't need to remind you that this is presumably a Grail cult that has fueled at least one major ritual that we're aware of through blood sacrifice.

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Honestly if we fear our Names might take initiatives we disapprove of... we should just go with them.

"Small" Group of Biedde, Axe and Velvet (and yes, there's the potential for Baldomare and Mareinette too depending on available bits!) can basically go "veni, vidi, vici" (I came, I saw, I won)

Honestly it makes sense. Only the leader pays actions in short expeditions, and the Cult is likely to have lots of resources worth looting, Neighnia above all.

just... can you imagine how FUNNY it would be if we just went to Copper with a group potentially including

"All-4" Loremaster Velvet Covers. Potentially with a Sacrament or two too if we don't go soon

ALICORN PRINCESS/DAUGHTER Selene

"MURDER GRANDPA" Biedde

"BETTER THAN YOU, YES I MEAN YOU COPPER" Mareinette

"NO SECRETS ALLOWED" Baldomare

"NO DOORS ALLOWED" VELVET Axe

the cost to bring them all? if the expedition is 5 days a 5 bits per, 150 bits required to start and likely only 90 spent.

doesn't it sound tempting?!

 

[Pittauro]

completely unintended, but the above is 666 words. The Devil Wolf tempts us...

 

[Venerable Ro]

At that point it goes beyond a raid to "Look at me, I'm the Master now."