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Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

Reader mode
Alan975 said:
Eh, I very much would.


So it seems that we've come back to the whole kill or kiss the lady debate again.

I'd like it if we started to prep the guillotine, but I'd be content to see all the fancy dramatics of walking in her hoofprints.

There is no middle ground, either we befriend the fully present demigod, or we kill 'em before we need to gallop to Glory.

Edit: or I suppose that we could try harmonize her/ make an appeal to her HEART, that would be fun too.
If extremely unlikely.
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Or we ignore her and make her Long/Name/Hour-Velvet's problem. Maybe she'd finally see through that haze of Grail Mareinette exudes at all times.
 
Talon Tiger Dino said:
I don't think a few hundred children would do anything for her even if she was inclined to schlorp up their minds. They don't even count as Lore 0, and she needs a minimum of Lore 5 to justify extending her stay in the Wake.
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Ponies counts as 1 in all lores naturally.

What we've seen her devour is untouched knowledge, untouched potential and well... Children match untouched potential/knowledge untouched by understanding pretty well.

There's also whatever the Illuminated one did to gain Light that involved sacrificing the souls of the innocent.

If is was just books that would be very merciful of her.

But mercy is not found in the Light.
 
Shaper47 said:
Ponies counts as 1 in all lores naturally.
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For a tiny podunk mortal ritual, sure. I think an endlessly wounded Name is more... discerning, than that, for lack of a better word.

And it has to be unread Lore Knowledge, those foals don't have any unread Lore Knowledge. Just mundane filly knowledge. The only Name that craves such cheap filler is Mareinette.
 
Alan975 said:
that-
.
...I don't think that that is how good writing works? or any game for that matter
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That's a weirdly meta argument against what I said, especially since that claiming the idea of a middle ground option between killing and befriending would inherently be a bad story is entirely subjective.

Also, if she was really that desperate to eat Velvet's kids that she'd do it offscreen during the final boss battle (which sounds overly petty and punishing for Bird), there would be nothing stopping her from breaking her bindings and doing it while Velvet's at work or something.
 
Limabot said:
there would be nothing stopping her from breaking her bindings and doing it while Velvet's at work or something.
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The only thing really stopping her from doing this exact thing is because she wants to befriend us.

If that's taken off the table though...

Yeah, I can understand people's concerns.
 
We're not killing Mareinette, lol. This is the Name of Heart, who stronger people than us spent eras trying to kill and failing. We've got a handful of turns, there's no way we're fitting in what would be necessary to have a chance of success.

We've got three options:

1. Befriend her. This gets us a very potent Name for All In, saves us further costs of rebinding, and can also secure Grail Level 5. It costs the actions of building a prison, acquiring a prisoner, and of course the moral dilemma.

2. We don't befriend her, and keep rebinding her. This gets us her actions for the remaining turns. It costs us a decent amount in 3 turns, and quite a bit in 6. It also does leave a Monster who can drop her bindings at our back when we go for All In.

3. We don't befriend her and don't rebind her. This gets us nothing, but maybe she's further from our estate/up to other things when we go for All In. This costs us leaving her free, which probably makes a mess that's the Lunar Bureau's problem. And our problem. Bad idea.

I don't think there's some sort of partial friendship. We know what we need to do to befriend her, other than that it's all just wishes in the wind where we're actively choosing not to do that.

Limabot said:
which sounds overly petty and punishing for Bird
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This is a horror quest. This is a quest where we are grappling with forces stronger than ourselves, with all that entails.

There is a Monster we have summoned to the Wake, who explicitly can break her bindings at any time. Who maintains the relationship because she is interested in us. Bird has no qualms about letting our choices, and sign-posted warnings, cause dire consequences.

If we're leaving her behind, I think it's reasonable to imagine she would leave us behind as well. An option she has. Biedde will be there too, so I don't think she'll run totally amok in the estate, but she can definitely get up to lots of bad things!
 
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spiderhellian said:
An option she has. Biedde will be there too, so I don't think she'll run totally amok in the estate, but she can definitely get up to lots of bad things!
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That's if we don't want to unsummon Biedde before going All In.

There's some hints that Biedde (or his Master) might be able to pull some tricks to deal with our bindings if needed.

Personally I find it pretty sus how similar the trait "And He Will Not Release ME" is to "In Service Of Our Father".

Also he's got Moth.

So like, I'm not sure if we're going to want him in the Wake where he can get a sense of what we're doing while hanging around near a bunch of hostages.

Sure his Edge influence would probably be useful but Names being able to see though the influences they grant has come up as a possibility before.
 
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Shaper47 said:
That's if we don't want to unsummon Biedde before going All In.

There's some hints that Biedde (or his Master) might be able to pull some tricks to deal with our bindings if needed.

Personally I find it pretty sus how similar the trait "And He Will Not Release ME" is to "In Service Of Our Father".

Also he's got Moth.

So like, I'm not sure if we're going to want him in the Wake where he can get a sense of what we're doing while hanging around near a bunch of hostages.

Sure his Edge influence would probably be useful but Names being able to see though the influences they grant has come up as a possibility before.
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However, he doesn't know that the Blood of an Outsider can open a gate. As far as he would be concerned, it's just a Mare setting out to slay a monster, a feat he'd highly approve of. It'd only be at the Gate where things finally click (pun intended), and as he is not in the Party he cannot respond with instant raildarting to the back of Velvet's skull, which means she can bask in Glory for as long as it takes to gain enough power to save those hostages herself. I mean shit, resurrecting the dead is in her wheelhouse already as a mortal, her necromancy is going to be so on-point once she ascends higher.
 
Shaper47 said:
So like, I'm not sure if we're going to want him in the Wake where he can get a sense of what we're doing while hanging around near a bunch of hostages.
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Eh, Biedde has a job to do, his agenda isn't hard to divine in broad strokes between the nature of Edge and the nature of The Colonel. At the moment nothing we're doing or planning to do negatively impacts anything he's doing, so I don't expect him to object even if he's not going to help. As to why he wouldn't help, being bound to an adept is one thing, being bound to a Name or Hour-Aspirant would be a different kettle of fish. The Colonel isn't exactly fond of divided loyalties.

Honestly, that's probably it, the path through the Tricuspid Gate (or perhaps the method to gather the Outsider's blood) possibly does something to disrupt the bindings between Name and Adept. So unless they have another reason or way to stick around any Names on the payroll would up and leave or hurry up the Mansus after us.
 
Talon Tiger Dino said:
which means she can bask in Glory for as long as it takes to gain enough power to save those hostages herself. I mean shit, resurrecting the dead is in her wheelhouse already as a mortal, her necromancy is going to be so on-point once she ascends higher.
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There are oaths and bindings for even Hours, and taking souls intact from a Name isn't easy especially at a great distance.

Also the necromancy comes from the Wolf, so that would be more Stains.
 
Venerable Ro said:
As to why he wouldn't help, being bound to an adept is one thing, being bound to a Name or Hour-Aspirant would be a different kettle of fish. The Colonel isn't exactly fond of divided loyalties.
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spiderhellian said:
Biedde? Betray a contract and go back on his word?

Seems genuinely unthinkable.
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It's more if the Colonel is alive (suspiciously likely) then Biedde serves the Colonel.

And there is quite a lot I suspect that the Colonel could do if he had leverage over the pony claiming Glory.
 
Zxzx24 said:
It is also a my little pony quest.

Fluttershy was able to befriend discord.
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Yes! It is! We can befriend Mareinette! It's straightforward and clearly outlined!

That's pretty remarkable, being able to befriend a Monster, to the point she'll keep our bindings on full-time with no further gifts.

If we choose not to embrace the magic of friendship, we shouldn't act surprised if things go by the other universe's rules.
 
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spiderhellian said:
This is a horror quest. This is a quest where we are grappling with forces stronger than ourselves, with all that entails.

There is a Monster we have summoned to the Wake, who explicitly can break her bindings at any time. Who maintains the relationship because she is interested in us. Bird has no qualms about letting our choices, and sign-posted warnings, cause dire consequences.

If we're leaving her behind, I think it's reasonable to imagine she would leave us behind as well. An option she has. Biedde will be there too, so I don't think she'll run totally amok in the estate, but she can definitely get up to lots of bad things!
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I know that already. I was there for the Master hijacking Shining Armor, and I know the QMing style.

I was just saying that relative to what happened with the Master (where we got their mysterious disappearance, the strange pattern of Ends-is-Beautifuls, Shining's Amnesia, etc), there hasn't been enough evidence in my view that not befriending Mareinette would be a instant game over event like some people seem to be implying it would be.
 
spiderhellian said:
This is a horror quest. This is a quest where we are grappling with forces stronger than ourselves, with all that entails.
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Obviously the correct decision is to visit Wolf and ask for relationship advice. I bet he will say something profound and helpful :V
Imaginary Wolf advice:
[]The Family is choice, but no one said that it must be correct one. Adopt Mareinette The Monster of Grail [This is a Regrettable Action]


spiderhellian said:
1. Befriend her. This gets us a very potent Name for All In, saves us further costs of rebinding, and can also secure Grail Level 5. It costs the actions of building a prison, acquiring a prisoner, and of course the moral dilemma.
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While DoA befriending is tied to her Sacrament it is not a case for every Name. As such I doubt a notion that we need Mareinette Sacrament to befriend her. In fact there is option that looks much closer to proper befriending. The one that allows her into our household. It also does not mean that she will immediately eat our fillies, or they would be in any kind of danger since she recognize that they belong to Velvet.

The things that stay in the way of proper befriending is Velvet's reluctance and Selene's veto. Even if we have nice dinner with Mareinette it does not help with Selene whatsoever.
Starting to use Mareinette for befriending other ponies was a correct choice, since it shows Velvet's growing trust in her, but we also need a way to get Luna on board.

Perhaps we can enlist her help with Celestia (Daybreaker as separate personality should be less than a year old so counts a foal if you squeeze your logic enough), or with running Bureau, or with dealing with foreigner treats threats.
As for bindings, giving Mareinette our Winter 4 artifact next time looks like least amoral choice, and it is not like we lack in Winter.
And for the binding after if we don't like Heart Sacrament option we can ask her if she would be willing to do her less moral actions outside of Equestria borders, perhaps at additional cost of her own action if she needs to travel further. We are pony CIA, enemy nation villages disappearing from map could even benefit us.

So basically enlist Mareinette in Bureau, have her prove herself with exemplary service then prove that we are willing to extend trust back and that even someone like her have her own place in our Equestria. Also don't think what it speaks about our Equestria while at it.
 
spiderhellian said:
We're not killing Mareinette, lol. This is the Name of Heart, who stronger people than us spent eras trying to kill and failing. We've got a handful of turns, there's no way we're fitting in what would be necessary to have a chance of success.
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Adding to this because it's important to consider why we will never have an opportunity to kill Mareinette. I think OurLadyOfWires once asked us to consider how a Lantern Name could fight against us if she really wanted to when we were considering summoning Baldomare and Biedde on turn 18. Well I'm also going to ask us to consider how a Grail Name could fight against us. And the answer is that she can and will make problems for us.

I think we should consider any chance of surprising or ambushing Mareinette to be effectively off the table. If she didn't have some way to know what we're doing and when we're doing it, I would be shocked. Hell, all she probably has to do is ask one of our confidants (Rarity, Jade, etc.). I can even see this being a situation where she flat out asks Velvet every turn "What are you up to?" and OurLadyOfWires never told this is happening because Velvet doesn't see anything wrong with this because we're being out-Grailed. She could pre-empt us by leaving before anyone notices she's gone and then imbue The Second Birth.

And then Mareinette is our enemy. An enemy who is on the loose, active, and knows our secrets. Does anyone remember the Immortal Enemy from Apostle runs in Cultist Simulator? The Grail-Long prefers intrigue attacks. Audit our money, make our confidants and friends betray us, generate massive suspicion. I'd bet she could do it pretty fast too, and that will put Celestia and maybe even the bureau on our tracks.

All of this may be catastrophizing, and none of this stuff may be happening at all, but the point of the matter is that we don't know. And for that reason I never want to risk Mareinette even being close to an enemy.
 
Nevermort said:
As such I doubt a notion that we need Mareinette Sacrament to befriend her
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This is flat-out wrong. This isn't speculation -- we've been explicitly told the Grail Sacrament makes her a friend.

Read the message in her binding options:
OurLadyOfWires said:
[-] Accept her "Invitation to Dinner"
-"Tie the knot. Make a friend." (Bolding my own)
-This option will always be available, and will never increase in price.
-This is Mareinette's Grail Sacrament.
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Read Bird's reminder, when talking about Mareinette's friendship:
OurLadyOfWires said:
You already know how to tie the knot.
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If people don't want to do her Grail Sacrament, sure we can have that argument. But Mareinette's friendship requirement has been outright stated, it's not in doubt.
 
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spiderhellian said:
This is flat-out wrong. This isn't speculation -- we've been explicitly told the Grail Sacrament makes her a friend.

Read the message in her binding options:

If people don't want to do her Grail Sacrament, sure we can have that argument. But Mareinette's friendship requirement has been outright stated, it's not in doubt.
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Need as in must take. That Grail Sacrament is only way to get Mareinette friendship. At the very least there is also Heart sacrament that may or may not offer her friendship too, and I consider letting her into our household as potential alternative friendship route too.
 
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Venerable Ro said:
I just want to find out if her Heart Sacrament has a similar undertone. Like a branching choice or summat.
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I know it's impossible to prove a negative but I'd be quite surprised. We've seen two Names who have a very very clear and very single friendship quest, and then Mareinette offers a choice of two?

Plus, I know she's the Monster of both, but if you had to choose one lore surely you'd give the edge to Grail. And you can see my apocrypha for why I think this Sacrament really would make her a friend.
Nevermort said:
At the very least there is also Heart sacrament that may or may not offer her friendship too, and I consider letting her into our household as potential alternative friendship route too
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Hahahahaha I don't think Selene and Velvet's veto is going anywhere anytime soon.

Makes me think of Baldomare's reminder re:Glory, when you're provided a path to something exceedingly difficult, don't go looking for an alternative.
 
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spiderhellian said:
I know it's impossible to prove a negative but I'd be quite surprised. We've seen two Names who have a very very clear and very single friendship quest, and then Mareinette offers a choice of two?

Plus, I know she's the Monster of both, but if you had to choose one lore surely you'd give the edge to Grail. And you can see my apocrypha for why I think this Sacrament really would make her a friend.

Hahahahaha I don't think Selene and Velvet's veto is going anywhere anytime soon.

Makes me think of Baldomare's reminder re:Glory, when you're provided a path to something exceedingly difficult, don't go looking for an alternative.
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I consider tying Sacrament to Name befriending to be a poor gameplay choice. What if players want Velvet personal sacrament instead, does it mean that they can't have it and befriend a Name at the same time? QM speaking against Knock personal sacrament is already somewhat controversial since he should not have written option he does not want to write about.
I'll be disappointed if the same story repeats with Mareinette.
 
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