Just a Phase [Worm]

[Ronmr]

'A group that can be destroy by the true must be destroyed by the truth.'

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Amen to that, especially with the Cauldron BS.

 

[BF110C4]

They also can't be used to cover up illegal activity. The PRT is talking out it's ass and thinking it can get by via intimidation tactics. It worked on Danny because they jumped him at an weaker time than he was in beforehand, when as an experienced and trusted Union negotiator he should have seen it coming. But he caved.

Which is why I hope Taylor just goes nuclear and blows the doors off everything. She owes the PRT nothing, and will never see justice unless she takes it herself.

Damages the PRT's precious image? Well, the fuckers should have thought of that before, shouldn't they?

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To be fair she is not being intimidated at all, at least in Boston. Part of the difference between Implacable and this fic is that Taylor is dealing with a PRT/Protectorate office that actually follows its own rules and regulations to a tee, both Taylor and the local director ar playing a game of cat and mouse with regulations and loopholes.

The problem with going nuclear is that if she does it carelessly then she is breaking NDAs and laws that she in her surprisingly solid research of laws and regulations believes that she wouldn't be able to avoid being criminally charged despite the rather dubious nature of the validity of the information protected and either put on probation or forced to flee and become homeless, something that she believes would disappoint her departed mother. Then there is the fact that admit it or not Taylor is very, very vulnerable to pressure at this point of time, being paranoid and borderline self-destructive with her actions and thoughts, the stress of going nuclear and facing a PRT/Protectorate with the gloves off would be terrible for her.

 

[Qaw]

The problem with going nuclear is that if she does it carelessly then she is breaking NDAs and laws that she in her surprisingly solid research of laws and regulations believes that she wouldn't be able to avoid being criminally charged despite the rather dubious nature of the validity of the information protected and either put on probation or forced to flee and become homeless, something that she believes would disappoint her departed mother. Then there is the fact that admit it or not Taylor is very, very vulnerable to pressure at this point of time, being paranoid and borderline self-destructive with her actions and thoughts, the stress of going nuclear and facing a PRT/Protectorate with the gloves off would be terrible for her.

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Aye, the PRT doesn't have to approach her from the legal angle at all if they want to make her miserable. Regular room searches, a drug check here and there, etc. The PRT does not lack the tools to bully her, but even a bogus legal battle, is again, a loss for a teenager not wanting to spend months stressing over absolute nonsense. If the Youth Guard stands in their way, a hint to the true nature of Taylor's hobby will make them drop their support. Honestly, the most likely outcome of any legal battle is that Taylor declares the whole thing a lost cause and go off by herself immediately rather than deal with the headache.
But Armstrong knows that that is Taylor's position and so will try to avoid problems as much as possible regardless of their legal merit.

To reiterate, the problem with Taylor breaking the NDAs is not the law but the loss of face the PRT faces.

 

[tarrangar]

To be fair she is not being intimidated at all, at least in Boston. Part of the difference between Implacable and this fic is that Taylor is dealing with a PRT/Protectorate office that actually follows its own rules and regulations to a tee, both Taylor and the local director ar playing a game of cat and mouse with regulations and loopholes.

The problem with going nuclear is that if she does it carelessly then she is breaking NDAs and laws that she in her surprisingly solid research of laws and regulations believes that she wouldn't be able to avoid being criminally charged despite the rather dubious nature of the validity of the information protected and either put on probation or forced to flee and become homeless, something that she believes would disappoint her departed mother. Then there is the fact that admit it or not Taylor is very, very vulnerable to pressure at this point of time, being paranoid and borderline self-destructive with her actions and thoughts, the stress of going nuclear and facing a PRT/Protectorate with the gloves off would be terrible for her.

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That's intimidation though, being forced to sign NDAs, then fearing the consequences of breaking them is intimidation, maybe not as directly as in Implacable, but they still used legal pressure to force her into keeping quiet about crimes against her.

If you signed them as part of a settlement, or as a condition for getting the information it's not intimidation, but if you get forced to sign them, then it's intimidation.

 

[Highlord]

And the PRT is hardly on the up and up. Rather than actually police their own, the people that tried to murder Taylor are going to be swept under the rug, and Taylor will be silenced, all to preserve the PRT's face.

Fuck the with a rake. See justice done and let the cards fall where they may. And if the PRT denies Taylor justice, than she is entirely in the right to take it herself.

 

[Praetrunco]

To be fair she is not being intimidated at all, at least in Boston. Part of the difference between Implacable and this fic is that Taylor is dealing with a PRT/Protectorate office that actually follows its own rules and regulations to a tee, both Taylor and the local director ar playing a game of cat and mouse with regulations and loopholes.

The problem with going nuclear is that if she does it carelessly then she is breaking NDAs and laws that she in her surprisingly solid research of laws and regulations believes that she wouldn't be able to avoid being criminally charged despite the rather dubious nature of the validity of the information protected and either put on probation or forced to flee and become homeless, something that she believes would disappoint her departed mother. Then there is the fact that admit it or not Taylor is very, very vulnerable to pressure at this point of time, being paranoid and borderline self-destructive with her actions and thoughts, the stress of going nuclear and facing a PRT/Protectorate with the gloves off would be terrible for her.

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Being criminally charged is actually good for her. If she can point out that the Wards who triggered her and nearly killed her are not only still outside of jail, in good standing, to say nothing of the adult capes involved in fostering said psychopaths, and the hordes of desk jockeys, troopers, and all the way up to Director who saw everything that went down and did nothing, all 100% a-okay, while she's sitting there about to be rotting away?

Charges against her will be shouted down the same as any fic where Piggot/Calvert/Tagg/whoever decides Taylor needs to go to prison for wiping out the S9. Any half-decent DA would be like "What the fuck stupid are you smoking?" in an instant, the same as memetical Glenn, and pull a 360 and walk out the door flipping two birds.

So, it's kind of exactly like Implacable.

Tangentially - Actually, when she thinks about how her mother might be disappointed in her, these are the relevant passages of text:

I wondered what she would say if she saw me now. Probably disappointed that I was working for the government instead of out actually doing something good for society.  I wasn't sure what, exactly, she would want me to be doing, but PR events and selling plushies was probably not it.
But, mom. What would she say, if she saw me turn villain? Would she be as disappointed in me for not being a hero?

Seems like being a stooge and stealing from people for success are what Taylor is concerned with disappointing her mom on, not being homeless. Which doesn't exactly stop people from "returning to society" later as though it'd never happened, or becoming wildly successful despite it. Considering her powerset, the only real difference is that she wouldn't have the PRT paying for her utilities and food, which honestly isn't worth the constant harassment and escalating conditioning, imo.

And sorry, but no, not friending every person in existence the moment you meet them does not make you self-destructive in thoughts and actions, especially given the timing the story was at when you wrote your first omake. If anything, it's the opposite side of the street. Frankly, the concern of Wards (and I specifically make a point to not say other Wards because Taylor doesn't want to be one), Protectorate members, PRT admin, etc, over Taylor should matter less than Danny's if the reason Taylor is a ward of the state is because he was caught raping her. The school actually doesn't give a shit about her effecting Ward activities in the slightest, which given her circumstances, is actually the heathiest aspect of her life in Boston. She's not being rebellious, she's simply trying to move on with this thing called life.

Pretending she has to have the Wards as friends is like pretending you have to do whatever job your family wants/has, and a whole bunch of other equally insipid garbage a majority of the population doesn't actually do or want. Even without kool-aid drinking being involved, and things like said Judge deciding that because you didn't get a job at 13/14 while you were being tortured towards suicide/being a murder victim means you can't be an adult, especially as long as you don't follow the PRT agenda. Can't have other kids thinking they can be normal too, especially if they're Irregular.

Yeah, they can decide to try and paint her as "angry kid being angry" because Danny signed her up against her will. If she gets the chance to say that her will was "Avoid the two Wards that nearly murdered me for funsies as civilians", I'm pretty sure even the Soccer moms would say "That kid is right to be angry.", and that folks like your Judge Lindsay are reprehensible psychopath enabling scumbags probably getting floated massive kickbacks from the likes of Piggot and Armstrong to find them as many sides of beef as they can to beat into submission.

So, still, it's almost exactly like Implacable.

 

[tarrangar]

Yeah, Taylor is as far as I remember not isolating herself at school, what she's doing, is refuse to have anything to do with the Wards, she's not trying to avoid making civilian friends.

"I find that while technically Miss Hebert is currently under employ by the Boston Wards program fulfilling the letter of the law of the requirement of having the economic means to sustain herself, she has in multiple occasions expressed the desire to leave the program as soon as is legally viable. Furthermore while her parahuman ability as described by herself and the preliminary assessment of the PRT has plenty of civilian applications both inside and outside the law enforcement community she has refused the testing of said abilities citing personal reasons, which is completely her right but it prevents her from getting licensed by the Protectorate as an affiliated hero, likewise the NEPEA-5 standards of work require a Parahuman Ability Safety Permit that the PRT is unable to issue without the proper testing."

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Also this is equally bullshit, as it's pretty clear, that she don't want to be tested, because that would enable the PRT to force her to go into the field, so if the judge wasn't on the PRTs side, he could just require that she sign off on power testing and have a job lined up, as part of her emancipation, with the understanding, that she wont consent to power testing, until it can't be used against her.

 

[BF110C4]

Yeah, Taylor is as far as I remember not isolating herself at school, what she's doing, is refuse to have anything to do with the Wards, she's not trying to avoid making civilian friends. Also this is equally bullshit, as it's pretty clear, that she don't want to be tested, because that would enable the PRT to force her to go into the field, so if the judge wasn't on the PRTs side, he could just require that she sign off on power testing and have a job lined up, as part of her emancipation, with the understanding, that she wont consent to power testing, until it can't be used against her.

Click to shrink...

Agreed, she is not completely isolated at school, but the impression from the Principal is that she is agressively keeping everyone at bay, one shared by the Wards who interact with her in the school and her own therapist, later with a more competent lawyer she might revisit the issue and get some character witnesses of her own.

As for the work issue...

Watsonian reason: There the issue in which prospective employeers such as NEPEA approved companies and independent hero teams won't sign her up until they have her tests showing she won't degenerate molecules when she passes through them due to strict liability and insurance concerns and the PRT/Protectorate can deny to test her for free under those conditions since access to their testing lab its a benefit/requiremen of the Wards program, not a right on its own. And testing a Breaker power like hers needs either specialized tinkertech or multiple laboratory tests from material scientists, biologists and other disciplines, expenses that companies won't make until an emancipated Taylor can negociate directly with them (Catch 22). The judge can't force the PRT to do the testing since its not a legal right Taylor has, just a perk of the job she refuses to take, so the only way of getting it done is as part of a settlement for the Hess/Barnes cover-up and this judge at least won't consider the possible result of a lawsuit until its black on white.

Doylist reason: Didn't thought about that solution.

 

[tarrangar]

Watsonian reason: There the issue in which prospective employeers such as NEPEA approved companies and independent hero teams won't sign her up until they have her tests showing she won't degenerate molecules when she passes through them due to strict liability and insurance concerns and the PRT/Protectorate can deny to test her for free under those conditions since access to their testing lab its a benefit/requiremen of the Wards program, not a right on its own. And testing a Breaker power like hers needs either specialized tinkertech or multiple laboratory tests from material scientists, biologists and other disciplines, expenses that companies won't make until an emancipated Taylor can negociate directly with them (Catch 22). The judge can't force the PRT to do the testing since its not a legal right Taylor has, just a perk of the job she refuses to take, so the only way of getting it done is as part of a settlement for the Hess/Barnes cover-up and this judge at least won't consider the possible result of a lawsuit until its black on white.

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Quite sure a lot of companies would sign her up anyway, provided she agreed to a low starting pay, sure there's a small chance it will turn out there's side effects to her powers, that basically mean they can't have her use them in her job, but if that's not the case, then she's the kind of valuable, that normally cost at least hundreds of thousands a year to hire.

So if she agree to a 2 year contract, where they pay her only something like 40k a year, then they should still be eager to sign her on, because while there's a small chance they can only use her as a low skill teenage worker, there's also a high chance, that such a contract mean they got a Parahuman, who could normally demand 10 times as much pay.

 

[BF110C4]

Quite sure a lot of companies would sign her up anyway, provided she agreed to a low starting pay, sure there's a small chance it will turn out there's side effects to her powers, that basically mean they can't have her use them in her job, but if that's not the case, then she's the kind of valuable, that normally cost at least hundreds of thousands a year to hire.

So if she agree to a 2 year contract, where they pay her only something like 40k a year, then they should still be eager to sign her on, because while there's a small chance they can only use her as a low skill teenage worker, there's also a high chance, that such a contract mean they got a Parahuman, who could normally demand 10 times as much pay.

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The problem is that the judge cannot legally consider a a contract as a parahuman as a valid choice for employment as long as the possibility, no matter how small, of unintended secundary effects, harmful power interactions or other factors that might come in testing is there. Is basically an inversion of the rules and regulations Taylor uses to get out of Ward activities for she can't get a costume due to the chance of a harmful reaction with her powers despite using normal clothes all the time, but in this case the PRT can counter an emploment offer by saying that she cannot get an uniform or protective clothes of any kind without testing.

Also there is the fact that an agreement such as the one proposed would be irregular enough that the judge might not accept it at face value and without additional failsafes since the temptation of abusing the conditions and access of a parahuman minor in case she cannot perform as intended is high. How many companies would accept such an agreement if it comes with the caveat of the PRT making weekly wellfare and labor related inspections to ensure Taylor is indeed used as a gopher instead of using her powers for anything company related, or for that matter even if she is allowed to use her powers to get a NEPEA audit, because all things considered under the circumstances the PRT would be doing their upmost to prevent the contract, and the easiest way is to find irregularities with the NEPEA stardards.

And the PRT can actually turn around any attempt to do separate testing before an emancipation is firmly on the books, either by using that testing done by experts certified by the PRT/Protectorate as valid for their own purposes therefore activating Taylor as a full Ward instead of the current arragement of a Ward-in-paper-only or if Taylor tries to include confidenciality clauses by blocking the attempt due to the fact that as her legal guardians they cannot be kept ignorant of the information of any power testing that might affect her health and the activities performed as a Ward (which is the entire basis of the current guardianship agreement). Which leads to the point that until she is not emancipated she cannot keep the PRT/Protectorate apart from any tests and she cannot gain lawful employment as a parahuman without being emancipated and having the tests taken.

That's why her current strategy is to get an independent lawyer; leave the Wards either by declaring the contract invalid due to criminal liability from the PRT/Protectorate or to use the damages from a civil lawsuit to get emancipated and end the contract sooner; and then find an independent superhero team or strike on her own.

 

[Qaw]

Quite sure a lot of companies would sign her up anyway, provided she agreed to a low starting pay, sure there's a small chance it will turn out there's side effects to her powers, that basically mean they can't have her use them in her job, but if that's not the case, then she's the kind of valuable, that normally cost at least hundreds of thousands a year to hire.

So if she agree to a 2 year contract, where they pay her only something like 40k a year, then they should still be eager to sign her on, because while there's a small chance they can only use her as a low skill teenage worker, there's also a high chance, that such a contract mean they got a Parahuman, who could normally demand 10 times as much pay.

Click to shrink...

Gentle Reminder: Both the demand for parahuman labor force and their wages are a glaring plot hole in the world-building, even after accounting for NEPEA. Therefore, the more these subjects are expounded on, the less sense the whole thing will make. I would caution against delving deep into this as a discussion topic unless you're ready to go heavy into AU territory.

Also two cents on the omake after taking a glance on it: Judges should STFU on the moralizing, nobody gives a shit. Their job is to make a ruling, not a sermon.

 

[mattsaber]

I just love the debates on this fic.Hopefully it updates soon so the debates can continue on.
Also or more malicious compliance check out


https://forums.spacebattles.com/posts/17650440/

 

[SlickRCBD]

As far as I understand about NDAs for minors, they can't be signed for them, they can have a parent co-sign to give it validity, and I believe in some cases the minor by themselves can do it and it applies, but it is not guaranteed. Also if they sign as a minor but turn 18 it might be enforceable, all those things are complex and may depend on the courts, but the most important thing is that they can't have someone sign for them. In this case I doubt Taylor signed anything and by no means her father can sign an NDA that applies to her without her co-signing, so there is that.

I see all this as another reason for the PRT to thread carefully, if it turns into a legal fight they have very little they can pin on Taylor, unless she unmasks Sophia and Emma, which is a crime, but they can't gag her about anything else she knows about the PRT crimes and such.

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Ah, but they probably did sign before the initial Wards meeting where Taylor discovered that Emma and Sophia are Wards and decides she wants nothing to do with the Wards.
Then her father signs the rest of the paperwork anyways.

They also can't be used to cover up illegal activity. The PRT is talking out it's ass and thinking it can get by via intimidation tactics. It worked on Danny because they jumped him at an weaker time than he was in beforehand, when as an experienced and trusted Union negotiator he should have seen it coming. But he caved.

Which is why I hope Taylor just goes nuclear and blows the doors off everything. She owes the PRT nothing, and will never see justice unless she takes it herself.

Damages the PRT's precious image? Well, the fuckers should have thought of that before, shouldn't they?

Click to shrink...

The NDAs can't stop you from reporting illegal activity to the proper authorities, but they can stop you from talking to a lawyer for filing a lawsuit of your own. You can talk to the lawyer in general terms on how to fill out the paperwork, but you can't disclose anything to the lawyer covered by the NDA. You certainly can't go to the press just because something illegal is covered by the NDA.
Taylor can probably talk to the GAO, OPR, OIG and FBI (not sure who to go over the head of Internal Affairs to blow the whistle to) but she can't give the specific details to a lawyer without either the PRT approving it (good luck, that's not in their best interest unless the lawyer in question is on their payroll and has a duty to serve the PRT's interest first, Taylor's second) or they somehow manage to get a Judge to sign off on it after Taylor files the lawsuit on her own without disclosing anything covered by the NDA. She has to be lucky not to get the case dismissed because she isn't trained to navigate the legal system and didn't do everything perfectly while going up against the PRT's lawyers.

 

[BF110C4]

The NDAs can't stop you from reporting illegal activity to the proper authorities, but they can stop you from talking to a lawyer for filing a lawsuit of your own. You can talk to the lawyer in general terms on how to fill out the paperwork, but you can't disclose anything to the lawyer covered by the NDA. You certainly can't go to the press just because something illegal is covered by the NDA.
Taylor can probably talk to the GAO, OPR, OIG and FBI (not sure who to go over the head of Internal Affairs to blow the whistle to) but she can't give the specific details to a lawyer without either the PRT approving it (good luck, that's not in their best interest unless the lawyer in question is on their payroll and has a duty to serve the PRT's interest first, Taylor's second) or they somehow manage to get a Judge to sign off on it after Taylor files the lawsuit on her own without disclosing anything covered by the NDA. She has to be lucky not to get the case dismissed because she isn't trained to navigate the legal system and didn't do everything perfectly while going up against the PRT's lawyers.

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In that sense she is lucky that Sophia and Emma were off the clock during school hours, because then the grounds to cover under an NDA anything beyond their superhero alias and the relationship with the PRT/Protectorate are way thinner, so theorically she can sue them as someone would sue a private person that just happens to be an FBI agent and allow the conection between both to surface during discovery.

It would still be one hell of an uphill battle, but at least it wouldn't be possible for the Protectorate to obscure the facts of the bullying campaign by using an excuse of an ongoing investigation simply due to the fact that the Wards are not allowed to conduct investigations on their own, especially during school hours and the more openly the Protectorate interferes on the investigation the more chances Taylor will have of telling a judge how they use subterfuge to get her out of the state against her will, opening the door for obstruction of justice and witness tampering, which hopefully would allow the NDA to be dismissed.

Note that the operative word is hopefully, not certainly...

 

[Highlord]

Which is just a retread of Implacable. Remember, the primary reason Taylor was able to win in that fic was because Danny got his head out of his ass and was working with her to game the system.

Here, he stabbed her in the back and surrendered his parental rights. Taylor stands alone, and the system will always put itself before any job it's supposed to do, especially if that job has anything to do with an institution policing itself.

Which is why Taylor should go nuclear. No judge will even rule in her favor, her father abandoned her, the PRT is her enemy, and every level of the system will always and forever put circling the wagons around its own than ever admit wrongdoing. So, no lawyer, no discussions, no negotiations, no talking, and no more chances. Take the evidence of everything including the PRT protecting a pair of murderous psychopaths from the consequences of their crimes, toss it all over the internet, and disappear.

 

[Qaw]

The NDAs can't stop you from reporting illegal activity to the proper authorities, but they can stop you from talking to a lawyer for filing a lawsuit of your own. You can talk to the lawyer in general terms on how to fill out the paperwork, but you can't disclose anything to the lawyer covered by the NDA. You certainly can't go to the press just because something illegal is covered by the NDA.

Click to shrink...

Can you send me the case law for this?
I've already made it clear everything I think of this argument, but I remember researching this before concerning the real world, and I forgot to bookmark the results.

 

[tarrangar]

As far as I understand about NDAs for minors, they can't be signed for them, they can have a parent co-sign to give it validity, and I believe in some cases the minor by themselves can do it and it applies, but it is not guaranteed. Also if they sign as a minor but turn 18 it might be enforceable, all those things are complex and may depend on the courts, but the most important thing is that they can't have someone sign for them. In this case I doubt Taylor signed anything and by no means her father can sign an NDA that applies to her without her co-signing, so there is that.

I see all this as another reason for the PRT to thread carefully, if it turns into a legal fight they have very little they can pin on Taylor, unless she unmasks Sophia and Emma, which is a crime, but they can't gag her about anything else she knows about the PRT crimes and such.

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The problem is, Taylor has just about surely only signed any NDAs under duress, and anything signed under duress can be declared invalid, I don't think she has actually signed any NDAs, at least not since before learning that Emma and Sophia are Wards, and the NDAs wouldn't cover anything to do with the bullying, since Taylor wouldn't sign any such document after finding out, and before she found out, the PRT didn't know either, and so had no reason to make her sign such an NDA.

 

[BF110C4]

The problem is, Taylor has just about surely only signed any NDAs under duress, and anything signed under duress can be declared invalid, I don't think she has actually signed any NDAs, at least not since before learning that Emma and Sophia are Wards, and the NDAs wouldn't cover anything to do with the bullying, since Taylor wouldn't sign any such document after finding out, and before she found out, the PRT didn't know either, and so had no reason to make her sign such an NDA.

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The problem is that they probably had her sign a blanket NDA for the Wards identities before they gave her the tour where she discovered that both Emma and Sophia were there, its a standard and reasonable precaution in case she managed to discover for example that Dean Stanfield, junior millonaire is in reality the gallant hero Gallant.

 

[tarrangar]

The problem is that they probably had her sign a blanket NDA for the Wards identities before they gave her the tour where she discovered that both Emma and Sophia were there, its a standard and reasonable precaution in case she managed to discover for example that Dean Stanfield, junior millonaire is in reality the gallant hero Gallant.

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That don't prevent her from suing their civilian identities though, I don't think a NDA about Ward identities, would prevent her from suing their civilian identities.

 

[BF110C4]

No, but as said above it would add a lot of extra steps to properly sue the PRT and Protectorate for epically failling in their supervisory role of a probatory Ward as well as using that relationship and the posterior actions to nullify the contract that chains Taylor to the Wards.

 

[Praetrunco]

No, but as said above it would add a lot of extra steps to properly sue the PRT and Protectorate for epically failling in their supervisory role of a probatory Ward as well as using that relationship and the posterior actions to nullify the contract that chains Taylor to the Wards.

Click to shrink...

It, at best, adds one. Especially considering I am fairly sure that if I bet the Youth Guard would happily file suit against them, I wouldn't be the only one on that side of the odds, even including kool-aid drinkers.

And doesn't necessitate outing Shadow Stalker or Ampere any more than it outs people who don't matter, like Gallant. I mean, outside of showing he's neither gallant nor heroic by assisting someone who is banned from using Ward communication software from contacting her in stalking her, he's kind of a non-entity and nothing says she even saw his face much less recognized him. If it wasn't for his always on power he may not even cognitively exist, like anyone at ENE Wards who isn't Sophia or Emma.

So no, what you said isn't really relevant or impactful in the least.

Nevermind that she could craft a statement that reads almost identically applicable to Blackwell/Winslow/Danny as it does PRT & friends, and if they decide to push that for being too grey she can push back (such as if she were to say "The relevant authorities...") with how only the Youth Guard has actually done anything of merit towards the letter and spirit of law and their mission statements.

 

[KingCrimson1081]

Anyone have any ideas as to how the PRT/Protectorate might force Taylor into power testing at some point.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Anyone have any ideas as to how the PRT/Protectorate might force Taylor into power testing at some point.

Click to shrink...

If they find a rule that doesn't allow a potentially dangerous parahuman to mix with others if they aren't sure that their abilities don't pose an inadvertent risk, for example emitting ionising radiation. They still couldn't force her to get tested, but they could make her take her lessons from a tutor via computer link.

 

[KingCrimson1081]

Yeah thats what I was thinking as well but more along the lines of said parahuman having an invisble power that is always on that might be dangerous to themselves and others. So long as they have reason to believe Taylor has an unknown power they can force her into testing.

 

[SlickRCBD]

Anyone have any ideas as to how the PRT/Protectorate might force Taylor into power testing at some point.

Click to shrink...

What happens if she point-blank refuses and challenges them to fire her?
Heck, what if she consistently fails to show up to her assigned times to be in the Wards area and says "If you don't like it, fire me."
After all, she refused to join, doesn't have a costume, and is only there because she's forced.
If they want to take legal action, she can point to the fact that she said "no" to signing up and point out the conflict of interest with her PRT guardian signing her up for the Wards against her will and air her grievances to the Judge.
So, basically what happens if she goes on strike?
Better yet, tries to get another job. Yes, that requires a parent or guardian signature for a minor, but then she can point to the judge that she wanted another job, but the PRT guardian is trying to force her into an organization she has a legitimate beef with by preventing her from taking any legitimate alternatives.

 

[KingCrimson1081]

It will probably cause a whole bunch of issues with the whole Wards department in Boston to a point they might just transfer her to Alexandria's home for unruly parahumans.

 

[Highlord]

You're forgetting that Taylor is a minor, and therefore not a person in the eyes of the law. She is instead a mere extension of her legal guardian, which is now the PRT because Danny is a gutless coward.

There is no legal recourse for Taylor, the entirety of the legal system is weighted against her. Youth Guard? They ultimately answer to the PRT, since its an actual Federal agency with enough pull to screw with the YG's funding and deployment. Child Protective Service? Even less power than the Youth Guard, and work directly for the state anyway, and so will always put the desires of the state before any necessity of the the minors (not people) they're supposed to protect.

Once again: Taylor stands alone. Help is not coming, the only one actually looking out for her wellbeing is herself, and every law in existence not only doesn't consider her an actual person, but is deliberately set up to be as actively malevolent and imprisoning as possible. Taylor is a minor, and worse, a female minor. As far as the state is concerned she is property of her guardian and has no actual rights. That she has powers just makes it all the more important for her legal owner to get her under control "for her own protection."

Taylor has no legal standing, no legal power, no legal presence, and her only actual route forward is to fuck off and disappear, because the PRT will, at some point, stop attempting to play nice and force her to comply. She is not a teenage girl that was nearly murdered by state assets, she is not a person with legitimate grievance. She is a number and a legal nonentity because the bureaucracy says so.

Taylor needs to remember what her Mother actually did, and act accordingly.

 

[Taliesin]

You're forgetting that Taylor is a minor, and therefore not a person in the eyes of the law. She is instead a mere extension of her legal guardian, which is now the PRT because Danny is a gutless coward.

There is no legal recourse for Taylor, the entirety of the legal system is weighted against her. Youth Guard? They ultimately answer to the PRT, since its an actual Federal agency with enough pull to screw with the YG's funding and deployment. Child Protective Service? Even less power than the Youth Guard, and work directly for the state anyway, and so will always put the desires of the state before any necessity of the the minors (not people) they're supposed to protect.

Once again: Taylor stands alone. Help is not coming, the only one actually looking out for her wellbeing is herself, and every law in existence not only doesn't consider her an actual person, but is deliberately set up to be as actively malevolent and imprisoning as possible. Taylor is a minor, and worse, a female minor. As far as the state is concerned she is property of her guardian and has no actual rights. That she has powers just makes it all the more important for her legal owner to get her under control "for her own protection."

Taylor has no legal standing, no legal power, no legal presence, and her only actual route forward is to fuck off and disappear, because the PRT will, at some point, stop attempting to play nice and force her to comply. She is not a teenage girl that was nearly murdered by state assets, she is not a person with legitimate grievance. She is a number and a legal nonentity because the bureaucracy says so.

Taylor needs to remember what her Mother actually did, and act accordingly.

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You seem to be deeply misinformed. This isn't how youth law actually works, at least in the real United States. Children in guardianships have both rights - not the same rights as adults, but rights nonetheless - and the protection of court oversight. They are entitled to their own court-appointed attorneys (specialists called guardians ad litem) and other protections to ensure that access to the courts is a threat with teeth. Legal guardians do not own children; children are not property that can be transferred. Guardianship is a privilege that can be taken away easily, far more easily than parental rights.

 

[Highlord]

You seem to be deeply misinformed. This isn't how youth law actually works, at least in the real United States. Children in guardianships have both rights - not the same rights as adults, but rights nonetheless - and the protection of court oversight. They are entitled to their own court-appointed attorneys (specialists called guardians ad litem) and other protections to ensure that access to the courts is a threat with teeth. Legal guardians do not own children; children are not property that can be transferred. Guardianship is a privilege that can be taken away easily, far more easily than parental rights.

Click to shrink...

Per law as it is written? You are correct.

As it actually gets applied? Far from it. Even less so when state law is trying to be used to rein in the state interests. And since this is Worm, parahuman law for minors is certainly even worse.

 

[Taliesin]

Per law as it is written? You are correct.

As it actually gets applied? Far from it. Even less so when state law is trying to be used to rein in the state interests. And since this is Worm, parahuman law for minors is certainly even worse.

Click to shrink...

Yes, I am correct, and everything you've asserted is certainly true is just you making stuff up that you think would happen. It's important to qualify your statements, otherwise people might think the nightmare scenario you've laid out of children being powerless property ripe for abuse by guardians is remotely true.

And by the way, the 'state'? It's not some monolithic thing. Judges do what they like and don't take marching orders from anyone. And humans being humans, most take an extremely dim view of anything remotely like child abuse. Especially child abuse perpetrated by the government.