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Safe For Work Worm Ideas thread

Discussion in 'CW Index' started by Prince Charon, Mar 19, 2014.

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  1. Blackenedthorn

    Blackenedthorn Too many ideas, so little time

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    Idea, one where Taylor is older than her canon self and she in the same age bracket as Emma's sister Anne. A storyline in which this older version of Taylor ends up in a relationship with an overstressed girl named Alice (Bakuda), Taylor is already a cape (wrong place at the wrong time) by the time of Alice's triggering into the Bomb Tinker and instead old holding Cornell University hostage they go back to Taylors hometown so Taylor can introduce her girlfriend to her parents.

    Now in this timeline, Annette is a mocha skinned goddess from New Orleans who fall in love with the Defiant dockworker that was Daniel Jean-Paul Hebert and is the heiress to a large multi-million dollar company. Danny is the youngest son of the Hebert clan, having no less than six elder brothers spread across the Eastern seaboard of America and like his brothers he is the grandchild of a pair of former French Resistance members who had emigrated to America post-war. Also in this timeline, the Dockworkers Union have not decayed too badly and are by far the largest force of manpower in the city with the majority of them being former military.

    Personally I like storylines were certain villains who got the short stick or are irredeemable in canon get redeemed in canon, so what I am further proposing is that the Merchants do not exist here and instead their members are instead employed with the Union. Now in the place of the Merchants, let's say the Teeth returned to the city they were born in or if Marquis' old gang had restructured itself after his arrest and keep itself going years later.
     
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  2. evildice

    evildice (Verified d4)

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    Only when I play Elder Scrolls games.
     
  3. LurkingInTheDeceit

    LurkingInTheDeceit “Brave” explorer treading “New” land

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    How do I put this... you don’t need to wonder whether you’re a simulation but you do need to keep in mind that he’s running simulations. So using that knowledge to change how you’d act to limit what he’ll get out of the simulations makes sense yeah?

    If it doesn’t... I think I’m gonna give up here.
     
  4. Azreales

    Azreales Not too sore, are you?

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    Sure yeah you need to keep in mind he’s a flippin’ precog and that gives him terrifying information gathering capabilities. What gets stuck in my craw is when people treat his power as if he was actually creating two concurrent timelines, which would let him do insane shit like “swap” timelines in order to cheat death.

    The way it actually works is his shard runs two sims based on what Coil wants to do that day. If in one you gank him from behind in his lair and the other Coil’s sitting pretty in his civ-house, it chooses the second course of action and “sleepwalks” him through acting that timeline out. Coil can’t handle all the info at once because puny human brain and so receives the info in “real-time.” He thinks he’s actively doing shit, but his shard already called the shots and he’s basically a meat puppet except for the times in between him opening a new timeline.
     
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  5. seeing_octarine

    seeing_octarine Unverified Colour

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    Either the shard's precog is good enough that it doesn't need to "sleepwalk" Coil through anything, or there will occasionally be weird errors and glitches where Coil says or does something that doesn't match up to reality. As the latter clearly doesn't happen, we can conclude that no, there is no "sleepwalking" going on, except for the instants where he thinks he's splitting timelines with his power but is really having to make the decision on which to keep based on data the shard hasn't told him yet. At all other times he's acting normally while getting fed "what if" scenarios in the back of his mind.
     
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  6. Azreales

    Azreales Not too sore, are you?

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    No, once Coil’s power has chosen one of the two timelines, it “sleepwalks” him through the choices of that simulated timeline. The sleepwalking isn’t about the quality or accuracy of the simulation. It’s basically the shard hijacking Coil so he doesn’t fuck up and stays faithful to his chosen simulated actions.
     
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  7. seeing_octarine

    seeing_octarine Unverified Colour

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    Except that if the shard's precog is really as good as it would have to be to make that power work in the first place, any such "sleepwalking" is completely unnecessary and wasteful and pointless and... You know what? That's completely in character for a shard, so whatever. Doesn't even matter if you don't understand how stupid it is.
     
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  8. evildice

    evildice (Verified d4)

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    Yeah the asshole precog power mechanic is pointless, wasteful, in-character, and also dumb ... and also very plausible.

    Here's one way the shard could handle desync:
    - Being a precog shard, it's actually pretty good at predicting the future.
    - Therefore, when the future varies from what it had previously predicted, it detects this difference before Coil could detect the desync.
    - The shard immediately aborts the unreal timeline and gives Coil a headache, because fuck Coil.
    - Coil now thinks something horrible happened in the other timeline and becomes even more of a paranoid asshole.
    - Yay conflict!
     
  9. Ragura

    Ragura I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    Or the shard edits Coil's memories in real-time while he "sleepwalks" in order to hide any glitches. Of course, this does require Coil to be unconscious, thus "sleepwalkig."
    What people experience of Coil is a simulation of his personality (because his Shard specializes in that) based on his decisions based on the first two iterations of precog.
    While Coil is sleepwalking his Shard probably precogs a minute or so ahead to avoid accidentially walking into cars etc. Unless of course Coil walked into a car in his "safe" timeline - then it counts as "intentional" to his shard and must be matched in reality.

    Honestly I kind of imagine Coil's movement glitching out like a video game character from time to time while "sleepwalking" - and nobody comments on it because he doesn't mention it and everyone in the know suspects he got from Ellisburg.
     
  10. Necrovore

    Necrovore Know what you're doing yet?

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    How is discussing the one of the worst interpretations of the mechanics of Coils power for so long in this thread relevant to Story ideas? Isn't there a debate thread for this stuff that has retread the topic repeatedly? Or PMs?
     
  11. Azreales

    Azreales Not too sore, are you?

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    Sure, I understand how convoluted and probably almost intentionally confusing his power is, but thats how it’s described. The “sleepwalking” thing is something I didn’t even figure but its what it said on the wiki so ‍I just try to work it into the rest in the way it makes most sense. To be honest the longer you think about Coil’s power the less it makes sense and the more needlessly complex it is but that is in character with the entire point of the Cycle no?
     
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  12. Ragura

    Ragura I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    What would be the psychologically worst power for Taylor to trigger with in the Locker? I'd go with Mush (and it being AU, Mush (Buzz) having Insect Control instead)
     
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  13. macdjord

    macdjord Well worn.

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    I disagree with you on two levels about this:
    • On a philosophical level, I'd argue that a perfect copy of you is you. If someone took a complete, neuron-for-neuron scan of my brain and plugged it into a neuron-simulator, the resulting copy of me would not only think it was me, it would have just as good a claim on the identity as the instance that's still running on squishy wetware. And the Shard-sims are a much deeper and more accurate simulation than that.
    • On a practical level, if you think 'cogito ergo sum; I'm here, I'm real, therefore this must be reality', then simulated!you will simulated!think 'cogito ergo sum; I'm here, I'm real, therefore this must be reality'. Any decisions you make based on that belief will also be made by simulated!you. In order to be safe, you must act in every way and respect as if reality might really be a Shard-simulation. Which raises two questions:
      • What better way to act, in every step, every choice, as if you might be in a simulation than to actually consider that you might be in a simulation?
      • Even if you could, somehow, perfectly act as if reality might be a simulation without believing it, is that any different from actually believing it?

    Pretty sure the 'real-time' limitation is entirely an artificial one on the part of the Shard for 'game balance' purposes.


    Incidentally, if you did want to trade with Coil, and you know of his power in advance, and are willing to let him know you know, there's a simple solution: make it a condition of the deal that the exchange occur as follows:
    1. Coil will give a final confirmation that the deal is on
    2. You will then flip a coin 10 times in a row; Coil must call each one correctly (after you've caught the coin, but before you reveal it to anyone, including yourself)
    3. You will exchange whatever it is your trading
    4. If, after the confirmation in step 1, Coil tries to back out of the deal, or does not call the coins correctly, or fails to deliver his side of the exchange even if the reason appears to be entirely outside his control, you will assume that he's cheating you in the other timeline and react appropriately
      • This, of course, assumes that you can react in some way that Coil will actually care about. But then, if you can't, he could just rip you off conventionally with no need for timeline shenanigans
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2021
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  14. Azreales

    Azreales Not too sore, are you?

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    Look, I’m not arguing if the simulated you has some claim to your identity or personhood or not. The reason you never have to wonder if you are in a Shard sim is because that Shard sim is exactly like running a computer simulation, if infinitely more complex and accurate. Coil can run as many sims as he wants, but those are just information that his shard is beaming into his brain, they have no interaction with reality on an existential level! The world isn’t suddenly in a Schroedinger’s Cat state until Coil decides a timeline. The shard simulates two timeline based on what Coil wants to do, picks which one he would want to live and hijacks him to fulfill that timeline. That’s it. He isn’t placing the entire universe in some state of quantum uncertainty where everyone is simulated!them and not at the same time.

    One is a frightening precognitive abilities which allows him to gain information and always take the best option in any situation he decides is worth opening a new timeline for. The other is the ability to force all of existence into a state of quantum superposition which diverge solely based on your actions until you decide which is preferable to you then delete one of those options at will. One is significantly more broken and downright ridiculous than the other.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2021
  15. Sydonai

    Sydonai Versed in the lewd.

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    They really aren't, we have seen what they are like and they tend to lack memories of their lives before triggering and have spotty recall of events that didn't involve conflict.
     
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  16. macdjord

    macdjord Well worn.

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    The simulated realities are just as real to the simulated people inside them as this reality is to you and me. Saying I don't have to worry about being in a Shard-sim is the same as saying that simulated-me doesn't have to worry about being in a Shard-sim, which is, by its very premise, false.


    ... are you talking about Capes like Weld, who have their minds running on ShardOS because their biological bodies no longer have functional brains? Because I'm talking about the simulations Coil's Shard runs in order to precog his 'two timelines'.
     
  17. Sydonai

    Sydonai Versed in the lewd.

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    I'm talking about any of the times where a Shard attempts to pull a "restored from backup" on their Host, like those times where a clone Parahuman gets memories from their original from after the point where they were cloned, which would theoretically be as close to an exact copy of their Host as they can manage.
     
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  18. Azreales

    Azreales Not too sore, are you?

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    Dude read that sentence you just wrote again. Even ignoring the fact that some would say that the simulated people aren’t real, just like how the AI chess player you play isn’t, what you said doesn’t make a goddamn lick of sense. If this reality is to you, what the shard sim is to the simulated people, where the fuck are those two crossing over in your logic? Those are two completely qualitatively different levels of reality, just like the infinity between 1 and 2 is incomparable to the infinity between 1 and 10.

    It’s like saying that if you write a book about a character based completely on you down to the mole on your left asscheek, you couldn’t tell which one is the real you anymore. You can’t be in the simulation because that’s how simulations work. They simulate reality.

    If what you’re getting at what I figure you are (it’s the only thing that makes sense) then it doesn’t really matter. If you are in the simulation then there’s a real you who will do the job of putting a bullet in between Coil’s eyes. From a literary perspective it just doesn’t work if you suddenly switch from your character’s perspective to the simulated version of your character to do a “what if the original is a sim too?” because thats a ridiculous way to write. If we were talking as if we were in the Wormverse then I wouldn’t pay it any more mind than the “brain in a jar” hypothesis’. That’s even if the simulation is good enough to be basically an AI based on myself, and thats a big jump.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2021
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  19. macdjord

    macdjord Well worn.

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    Consider two copies of me: One in physical reality, the other in Coil's Shard's simulation. Assume they are aware that a simulation exists, but not, prima facie, which side of the simulation they are on.
    • One of these copies says "[logical argument] Therefore, I am in physical reality."
    • Meanwhile, the other copy, being an exact and identical copy, says the exact same thing.
    • One of these copies is wrong. They cannot both be in physical reality.
    • Both copies know a simulation is happening. Both copies know there is another copy of him saying the exact same thing.
    • Ergo, both copies must dismiss '[logical argument]' as flawed. It cannot be a valid, sound argument, because if it is true - if he is in reality - then the other copy is saying the same thing and coming to the same conclusion and being wrong about it. An argument which cannot distinguish truth from falsehood is useless.
     
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  20. Azreales

    Azreales Not too sore, are you?

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    Yes, if the Wormverse was our reality sure I could get what you’re saying even if the practical and inevitable conclusion is, “So what?” We run into the exact same problem in our reality with the Brain-In-a-Jar, Solipsism, Just-a-Dream and a dozen other theories but they have no practical use and so must be, not considered impossible but useless questions. But in a narrative sense? It’s completely implausible. What, are you going to write chapter after chapter of character interactions, fights, planning, dialogue (which I am legally obligated to say: Fuck Dialogue, because that shit is difficult) and the other dozen details that make a story a story, to then just reveal, “Oh that was all just one of Coil’s simulation, now we go to meet the real MC!” I mean, I guess it would be funny but it’s also something that would almost certainly make me drop a story because What The Fuck, author.

    So yeah, I can see your point but it’s not really something without practical utility at the end of the day and from a narrative or reader’s perspective then it’s a question that can be and should be considered an automatic “No.”
     
  21. macdjord

    macdjord Well worn.

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    I've seen plenty of fics which had section, sometimes up to most of a chapter, happen in a dropped Coil timeline, sometimes without the reader knowing until he dropped it. It's a potentially powerful narrative device, though also a dangerous one that needs to be used cautiously and sparingly.
     
  22. Prince Charon

    Prince Charon Just zis guy, you know?

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    Um, speaking as the OP, I feel that the discussion about Coil's power has gone on too long, and has become a derail. Please take it to a more appropriate thread.
     
  23. LurkingInTheDeceit

    LurkingInTheDeceit “Brave” explorer treading “New” land

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    Sorry for bringing it here, it was the best fit I could find at the time, but I’ve managed to find this-
    https://forum.questionablequesting.com/threads/unrestricted-worm-discussion-thread.7824/page-2
    -after narrowing down my search terms.

    I don’t really care if the convo continues over there, but thought I’d give the option.
     
  24. Prince Charon

    Prince Charon Just zis guy, you know?

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  25. ezok

    ezok Well worn.

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    I was thinking about something like this. Take cabon cirscumstances and altwr them slightly and wtch the fireworks.

    Like, instead of joining the E88 after her trigger Purity joins Marquis and enters a relationship with him. Amy is his child from an old relationship but she ends up loving her as her own child.

    Contentious as some revelations are im canon, I think there's some potential on it. So, in ward, Carol has an affair with her sister's husband. What if Eric is born from said affair instead of being born to Sarah. So Sarah is the one who ends up having to take Amy in since Carol has two children to take care of. And since Sarqh actually encourages her children to use thwir powers in non-combat setting then I can see this Amy actually being a more competent Shaper user that could end up being hired by the PRT to enhance their troopers.
    (Coincidentally, while searching for info on Eric I just discovered he was actually 14 years old. Christ, he died way too young.)
     
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  26. Knightfall

    Knightfall Nui Harime lover, Cynic, and Archivist

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    A lot of people in Worm die young.
     
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  27. Blackenedthorn

    Blackenedthorn Too many ideas, so little time

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    Recently I had this further idea with the same powers that I put forth for Taylor except this time she's in an active relationship with Amy, a relationship that has resulted in Amy being dragged out of the closet by her bisexual girlfriend and getting a full makeover courtesy of Taylor's powers. Part of this makeover, which Taylor tells her what she did thus allow Amy to perceive her new appearance, involved making Amy into a futanari and making her drop dead gorgeous. Funnily enough, thank to Taylor's powers everyone who knows of Amy or her alter ego Panacea just sees what Amy used to look like while Amy and Taylor get to indulge in Amy's new appearance.



    A different idea of mine is set in the days when Marquis was running about the Brigade was still establishing itself, Sarah decides to go some footwork for herself by infiltrating Marquis' organization. At first it's slow going, she gets in at the lower ranks and slowly climbs up the ranks. It isn't until she attracts the attention of who she thinks is one of Marquis' lieutenants and is invited to his room, it begins as little more than Sarah sleeping with the man in exchange for whatever information she could glean but soon it becomes something more especially after she discovers about the affair between Neil and Carol. The tipping point comes when Carol unexpectedly announces that she was pregnant with her second child and Sarah realizes that it's likely Neil's rather than Mark's child, Sarah just confesses everything to the man who she had been sleeping with for information on Marquis. Much to her surprise, the man turns out to be Marquis himself and Sarah finds herself at a crossroads. Does she turn on him and go back to increasingly dysfunctional Brockton Bay Brigade or does she continue her "infiltration" of Marquis' organization and continue like usual?
     
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  28. evildice

    evildice (Verified d4)

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    This feels kinda in-character for her, given how she kinda even cared for Theo after escaping Max.

    She might be a lot warmer to a kid whose parent she actually likes.
     
  29. Blackenedthorn

    Blackenedthorn Too many ideas, so little time

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    An Assassin's Creed Crossover where in Taylor's Shard contains the collective knowledge of the Order of Assassins and has given her teachers in the form of the main protagonists of the Assassin's Creed franchise, so Taylor learns the ropes of being an Assassin while also dealing with being a denizen of Brockton Bay. On the brightside, she has the best window to look into historical events through the eyes of her teachers and she can learn from their experiences the more she delves into her powers. On the downside, by the time she sets out on her first night Taylor is a well oiled killing machine in the form of a teenaged girl.
     
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  30. Ragura

    Ragura I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    Assassin's Creed memories would fit better to Sophia IMO. Or you have a Tinker specializing in genetic memory recovery tech. Originally he was hired by the E88 because they try to recover one of the fabled hidden nazi gold treasures from WWII, but they needed to test it on somebody "expendable" first, and there is this freshly caught (pre-Wards) vigilante. Suffice to say, they get more than they bargained for. :)

    Or maybe the student had a crush on / affair with Annette. Or it could even be Taylor's real father - maybe Danny's long lost brother who faked his death to escape the E88 (or the Protectorate!) if we go full Soap Opera.

    A good power would be an empathic teleport link - either one senses when the other is in distress, and can teleport to them, or teleport them to themselves.
    Technically he could link to another person than Taylor, but he can only link to one person at a time The only time he is not linked to Taylor is during Endbringer Battles.

    Come to think of it, manifesting soap opera tropes would also be an interesting Shaker/Master power, and it would work as a trigger for Taylor - when somebody (Blackwell's Secretary?) accuses her of having see too many soap operas, nobody does that kind of bullying in real life (notably this is AFTER the Locker, ot something similarly dire) - when in truth Emma and Madison (Sophia does not watch them) have been using Soap Operas as inspiration for their bullying.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2021
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