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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Reader mode
Longtime lurker here. Does Paul remember that he can drain magic with his ring? It didn't seem to work when he tried it in Clarion Call but I assume that was because of Source/Presence-based magic being special. As far as I remember, he didn't even contemplate it at any point during this episode, when it seems like it would be useful.
 
Mquz said:
Because if science can defeat magic (head on, without doing something clever) it's not actual magic. This applies to a lot of fiction. About the only thing of actual relevance I can come up with.
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More common in settings that have both high-tech and high-magic are the ideas that 1) they interfere with and disrupt each other just by being in close proximity or 2) it is quite possible to build a technological device that nullifies magic. While we can completely discount 1 in he case of any DCU I've seen, 2 seems like it could be a possibility in most of them, particularly this one since it follows a more formulaic magic system that's almost just a different type of technology. And if it is a possibility then Paul, as a person with a good grasp of magical theory but possessing no actual magical ability, would be an ideal candidate to participate in the development of such a technology. Heck, he's on good enough terms with Hephaestus that he might be able to get one of probably only two people in the whole of the DCU who knows enough about both magic and technology to do it on his own to just bang something out.
 
Siskulous said:
More common in settings that have both high-tech and high-magic are the ideas that 1) they interfere with and disrupt each other just by being in close proximity or 2) it is quite possible to build a technological device that nullifies magic. While we can completely discount 1 in he case of any DCU I've seen, 2 seems like it could be a possibility in most of them, particularly this one since it follows a more formulaic magic system that's almost just a different type of technology. And if it is a possibility then Paul, as a person with a good grasp of magical theory but possessing no actual magical ability, would be an ideal candidate to participate in the development of such a technology. Heck, he's on good enough terms with Hephaestus that he might be able to get one of probably only two people in the whole of the DCU who knows enough about both magic and technology to do it on his own to just bang something out.
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Spell eaters and mage killers. He already has 'em
 
DrThoth said:
Longtime lurker here. Does Paul remember that he can drain magic with his ring? It didn't seem to work when he tried it in Clarion Call but I assume that was because of Source/Presence-based magic being special. As far as I remember, he didn't even contemplate it at any point during this episode, when it seems like it would be useful.
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As far as I know he's only ever done it once with any sort of success and even that wasn't particularly useful. I can't blame him for not going for a minimally-tested technique that he knows he can theoretically make use of, especially not in the heat of combat.

He probably SHOULD practice with it, though. He's got allies to train with.

Queshire said:
Spell eaters and mage killers. He already has 'em
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Those aren't technological. Spell eaters in particular require being enchanted by a proper mage, and I don't think he can fabricate mage slayers on his own.
 
Coda said:
He probably SHOULD practice with it, though. He's got allies to train with.
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Basically what I was thinking; I do miss the training and innovation of new techniques, though he does seem too busy nowadays to really do that anymore. It's also a little jarring to see him able to kill or injure angels and have so much trouble with a dragon, though the phylactery is a decent enough explanation. And I'm sympathetic to the difficulties of writing fights with Orange Lantern as he is now, since he's pretty powerful in most categories.
 
I've retroactively and plot-relevantly changed the design of Katar Hol and Sheyera Thal's ship, to make it distinct from the one Fred Cantrell and Sharon Parker are using.

The Justice League Hawks are now using this:

Hawk-ship-modern.jpg


While the Justice Society Hawks used this:

Thanagarian-ship.jpg
 
Mr Zoat said:
I've retroactively and plot-relevantly changed the design of Katar Hol and Sheyera Thal's ship, to make it distinct from the one Fred Cantrell and Sharon Parker are using.

The Justice League Hawks are now using this:
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Can't wait to find out what this means in six months!
 
Hoard (part 22)
  • Threadmarks
    • 12th January
    19:42 GMT -5

    "Welcome Zatanna Zatara. Welcome, Orange Lantern."

    A decidedly worried-looking Giovanni Zatara is standing in the Shadowcrest smoking room as I carry his recumbent daughter through. She's still out of it from Robert's drain spell, but she appears to be sleeping normally. He makes momentary eye contact with me and then takes her from me.

    "Wohs em tahw si gnorw."

    "The dragon Karfang had some sort of mind altering orange power ring powered airborne chemical spell. Cornwall Boy-."

    "Drained her reserves, yes, I see."

    "The spell created a certain mental fixation. She was willing to counter it on others, but one of the things it did was convince the user that they are fine, and she… Wasn't cooperating."

    He nods. "I.. have encountered situations like that before. Against a creature such as an ancient dragon, it would be unreasonable for me to expect your preparations to be perfect. She will be fine in a day or so." He frowns slightly. "What has become of her staff?"

    "Yeah… I need to talk to you about that. And.. her, actually."

    He nods slowly. "Please, go down to the living room. I will join you after I have put Zatanna to bed."

    I nod and he turns and walks out of the room, heading for the bedrooms. I follow him out, then turn and head down the stairs. This is very far from the first time I've been here, and I notice a.. few differences. A vase of fresh flowers-. No, two. A newspaper on a rack besides a leather recliner. Giovanni's chair. And a half-drunk mug of cocoa on a side table.

    I sigh quietly as I take a seat on the settee. This is going to be awkward. But it's not going to be awkward until he gets back, so I may as well do this now.

    I raise both hands, the late Lantern Karfang's ring on my left middle finger, and my personal lantern appears before me.

    "This is my cause, this is my fight,
    Shine through the void with orange light.
    I've claimed all within my sight.
    To keep what is mine, that is my right."

    Streams of orange light connect the three of them to my lantern, and I watch them begin to glow brighter as they recharge. Should I introduce myself to Mr Machin this evening? I'm pretty sure that he'd take it in his stride, but… This isn't a ring I'd want anyone in the Corps to use. If I concentrate I can hear the would-be Citadelian Emperor who believed that the bar on travel to the Forbidden Forest of Weeds didn't apply to him. When I recruit someone I'd like to have a ring on hand which didn't obviously mark me out as an evildoer.

    "Charge at one hundred percent." / "Charge at one hundred percent." / "Charge at one hundred percent."

    I lower my hands as my lantern returns to subspace. Have to ask Hinon if she's made any progress on turning these things back into people. I'm not sure that I'd want to return a high ranking Citadelian to Vega, but I don't think that eternal torment is a reasonable punishment for any crime. At the very least we could execute him.

    I look up as Giovanni walks into the room. He smiles faintly before taking his seat.

    "Is the situation in Switzerland under control?"

    "Kaldur and Robert are talking things over with the surviving gnomes. They're pretty shaken up. Apparently, Karfang started by eating their leaders. I left once the injured were healed."

    He nods. "It would be interesting to see a gnome warren. I have read about them, but it is another thing entirely to walk through their halls in person."

    "I think Kaldur intends to pass the decision on whether to notify the local authorities over to Batman. I suspect that the gnomes would rather return to the status pro bellum, but since they were living as petty thieves I don't think that's a good idea."

    "No, that is something we should try to avoid."

    "Might be a useful alternate source of Dolmen Gates…" I shake my head. "But I.. didn't come to talk to you about that."

    He nods. "No."

    Where to start..? "The jewel on the top of Zatanna's staff-."

    "Is the Star Sapphire, yes, I know. One of the first things I did when I regained the capacity to use my own magic was to make sure that the spells binding it worked as well as Zatanna told me that they did."

    "And..?"

    "I couldn't find any weakness." He hesitates. "Was it..? John Constantine's work?"

    "Ah, no, no. Myself, Professor Sephtian and Io. Ah, you haven't.. met her, she's one of the palace blacksmiths on Themyscira."

    "I see."

    "Using it as an external power source dramatically increased the amount of power she has at her disposal, at the cost that she has to be focusing on those she loves at the time." I sigh. "The problem there is that while we were able to avoid the Star Sapphire flat out mind controlling her, we-. I didn't take into account more subtle things."

    "Such as?"

    "It's been talking to her. Trying to talk her around to Zamaron philosophy. I only found that out today… But, perhaps more importantly, having to focus on love to use the Staff resulted in her.. focusing on the emotion pretty much full time. Specifically, her love for me."

    "Mm." He looks away awkwardly for a moment. "Yes, I… From the way she spoke about you, I had thought…"

    "We… Were the only people on the team who knew what we were doing, we were working closely together… With.. you absent she came to depend on me." I shrug awkwardly. "I told her on New Year's Day twenty eleven that.. I didn't think that a romantic relationship was appropriate, I didn't… Change that position. But we put the staff together in late February and… Between learning to use it and the stress she was under…"

    "She grew attached to you anyway."

    I nod. "I… Thought that… Given that I'd turned her down that… She'd get over it. Particularly after I left the planet." I exhale. "But that hasn't happened. And my starting a relationship with Jade hasn't put her off either. Today… Today was the result of Karfang getting a mind altering spell past her defences, but her behaviour didn't come out of nowhere."

    "What did she do?"

    I shake my head. "I'm taking her effort to mind control me into leaving Jade as a plea for help. Robert's got the Staff, and it's going in a warded case in a.. location she can't get to just as soon as I get back. Giovanni, I… I don't know how to handle this."

    "No, I don't suppose that you do." He leans back, bows his head and rubs his forehead with his right hand. "You can see people's emotions, can you not?"

    "Yes. But that doesn't mean I know exactly what the resulting behaviour will be or how to… Control it."

    "No, no, this… Situation is the result of a great many people making poor decisions. You intend to discuss this with her when she awakens?"

    "Yes. I like Zatanna, but I don't love her. The only question is how blunt to be. With you back, I can afford to be blunter than before… If that's a good idea..?"

    He sighs. "I think, in this situation, that would be best."

    I nod and get to my feet. "I'll see you tomorrow, then."
     
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    • Mr Zoat said:
    Should I introduce myself to Mr Machin this evening?
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    For the curious, that's Lonnie Machlin, the teenage terror who would become Anarky.

    "I couldn't find any weakness." He hesitates. "Was it..? John Constantine's work?"
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    Oh-ho, I can understand his trepidation. The staff does seem something of a Constantine-style idea...

    "She grew attached to you anyway."
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    Well, when you put it like that, it sounds bad, yes...

    "I think, it this situation, that would be best."
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    "I think, in this situation, that would be best."


    Well, that's one subplot-cum-sidequest almost resolved... On to the next one!
     
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    Just saying, I haven't seen Jade in many, many chapters.

    Hopefully she hasn't been mysteriously cursed out of existence (or at least Paul's life.)
     
    Mr Zoat said:
    "It's been talking to her. Trying to talk her around to Zamoran philosophy. I only found that out today… But, perhaps more importantly, having to focus on love to use the Staff resulted in her.. focusing on the emotion pretty much full time. Specifically, her love for me."
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    The planet is Zamaron, so shouldn't it be Zamaronian or Zamaron philosophy?
     
    Ramuthra said:
    Hopefully she hasn't been mysteriously cursed out of existence (or at least Paul's life.)
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    She died in a training exercise. Very sad, tragic even, but sometimes it happens with the Darkstars. Paul, distraught when he finds out, seeks refuge and comfort in the many arms of the Spiderqueen...
     
    Mr Zoat said:
    "Is the Star Sapphire, yes, I know. One of the first things I did when I regained the capacity to use my own magic was to make sure that the spells binding it worked as well as Zatanna told me that they did."

    "And..?"

    "I couldn't find any weakness."
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    I'm glad this was brought up, because it seems like an important step, and rationality shouldn't just be exclusive to Paul, though sometimes it can feel that way. Though honestly I'd expected the Green Lanterns to confiscate it for safekeeping or something, like Hal Jordan did in the Renegade timeline. I can imagine the Guardians ordering something like that, but perhaps they don't know, because that would probably entail reporting the entire story of its use and purpose (to confront a kidnapper who the Lanterns knowingly collaborated with. I'm not trying to restart a debate on the morality of the Nabu situation, but I think what I said is still just factually accurate).
    It's also interesting seeing someone use multiple lights together (Zatanna's orange and violet) in a way that I don't think we've really seen before in this fic, and I wonder if it'd be possible to do so without the mystic brainwashing. Using magic to directly tap into the emotional spectrum seems like it should be viable, given most magic is connecting the user's soul to surrounding or extra-dimensional sources of energy, and the Star Sapphire staff already shows that to a great extent. Working out a ritual to tap into all seven lights and thus possibly gain access to the White Light of Life would be fascinating to see.
     
    DrThoth said:
    I'm glad this was brought up, because it seems like an important step, and rationality shouldn't just be exclusive to Paul, though sometimes it can feel that way. Though honestly I'd expected the Green Lanterns to confiscate it for safekeeping or something, like Hal Jordan did in the Renegade timeline. I can imagine the Guardians ordering something like that, but perhaps they don't know, because that would probably entail reporting the entire story of its use and purpose (to confront a kidnapper who the Lanterns knowingly collaborated with. I'm not trying to restart a debate on the morality of the Nabu situation, but I think what I said is still just factually accurate).
    It's also interesting seeing someone use multiple lights together (Zatanna's orange and violet) in a way that I don't think we've really seen before in this fic, and I wonder if it'd be possible to do so without the mystic brainwashing. Using magic to directly tap into the emotional spectrum seems like it should be viable, given most magic is connecting the user's soul to surrounding or extra-dimensional sources of energy, and the Star Sapphire staff already shows that to a great extent. Working out a ritual to tap into all seven lights and thus possibly gain access to the White Light of Life would be fascinating to see.
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    Except remember that the white light is used by that one ancient African magic user with light enlightenment? And the dark light is used by Dark Druid and possibly that tattoo lady?
     
    Poor thing. Pretty sure Zoat has said in the past that Zatanna was originally going to be Paul's love interest. Then he changed his mind and decided he preferred Asian women.

    She must be so goddamn jealous of her criminal counterpart. And for clarity, I mean the evil Zatanna with Blue Ring Paul.
     
    Grimnar said:
    I liked this just so I could unlike it. I was really hoping Zatanna would go fully down the Enlightenment road without much outside interference. Just like 'Doin' mah thing, don't mind me.'
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    Okay, but I don't get any sort of notification for people doing that.

    And... She could still go down that route. The SI went orange light crazy before attaining enlightenment.
    Ngamer11 said:
    The planet is Zamaron, so shouldn't it be Zamaronian or Zamaron philosophy?
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    Thank you, corrected.
    DrThoth said:
    Working out a ritual to tap into all seven lights and thus possibly gain access to the White Light of Life would be fascinating to see.
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    Doctor Balewa tapped into the white light thousands of years ago.
    ForeverShogo said:
    And for clarity, I mean the evil Zatanna with Blue Ring Paul.
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    Zorina. And she has no idea how Zorina's relationship with him has progressed. As far as she knows, Zorina and weirdly-older Paul are colleagues.
    Twilight666 said:
    Saw this on the 2nd post TOC:

    Either:
    1. Mr Zoat made a mistake with the spoiler
    2. we have a couple of chapters from an alternate Paul (like Authority (supplementary, Earth's Mightiest Lantern) or Common Sense) or
    3. something hinky is going to happen

    Maybe Dr Destiny!Jade and Timetrapper!Paul are going to be back?
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    Though there is a segment on the Earth's Mightiest Lantern in this year's 1st of April episode and a Common Sense segment at the end of the next episode, Sybarite is another alternative.
     
    Mquz said:
    Except remember that the white light is used by that one ancient African magic user with light enlightenment? And the dark light is used by Dark Druid and possibly that tattoo lady?
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    Mr Zoat said:
    Doctor Balewa tapped into the white light thousands of years ago.
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    I remembered them as soon as I read these posts, thanks, and that's a good point; it's easy to forget things in this increasingly complex and intricate setting Mr Zoat has created. However, I don't think we've seen Doctor Mist actually use the White Light in his spells or anything, not like we did from Dark Druid with the Black Light; maybe we can see a future scene of him healing someone from Anti-Life exposure, or something similar. Clarice Sackville is a good example of multiple lights co-existing in harmony, according to Paul's empathic scan of her soul, but if I remember correctly, she hasn't done any on-screen magic that mixes those lights, unless we count the passive effect of her being immortal or a particularly vital undead person in all her appearances to date.
    I'm eager to see Paul use more avarice-magic that works on his unique soul-structure and connection to the orange light, like his plant manipulation and 'instant transmission', though I believe he needs his rings for both of those features, unless I'm mistaken. While he can't make use of normal thaumaturgy, I think that he could possibly work out an analogue using the plane of avarice as his energy source, instead of planets' native magic fields. After all, this fic has Lords of Order and Chaos using connections to those planes for their magic instead of their surroundings, and I can't imagine the theoretical principles of creating an extra-dimensional connection (which he already has via his bond to the Ophidian) would differ too much just based on the different planes of power. But there might well be in-universe thaumaturgical reasons for it being difficult to adapt established practices to a new power source (as well as the Doylist reason for not overpowering him to an unreasonable degree). If he does do this, I suppose it would just be similar to Maltusian innate abilities, which, as shown in the Gods and Mortals episode, is also different from magic.
     
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