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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)


'different'

Surprise! I-."

One of the students reflexively shoots me.

Surprises are overrated.

Why didn't you kill him!? You had a perfect opportunity!"

"I wanted his skills."

"Do you have any idea how many people he's killed?!"

"An entire planet driven mad with fear for Sinestro's ring alone."

"That's the least of it! Two species went extinct when he tested out the antithesis ring delivery system alone! He hunter down and dissected dozens of Green Lantern, then tortured them to death to try and work out how their connections to their rings worked!"

He makes an excellent point as to why working with Kalmin is really, really weird and wrong.

If he tortured and killed them later then it should be 'vivisected'

You're working with a man who genuinely wants to destroy all reality!"

Yes, he really is.


Good question.

We're a species governed by mad scientists! I'm in the process of changing our culture so that we'll become a normal empire, conquering people to exploit their resources and to swell our egos, not out of a sense of obligation to a god who quite literally wants to kill us!" He glare at me. "Why are you even here!?"

So it's still going to be an empire of assholes, just not omnicidal ones.


'glares'

. I don't like deliberately making a society worse, but this is Qward we're talking about

It would be a true accomplishment if you managed to make it worse.

probably talk Dr. Sivana into taking them on as graduate students

Well if you're trying to reform them then maybe keep them away from him.


'same'

But it's just not in my interests to let him.

Okay, so you aren't going to help him, but helping Kalmin is also going to end up screwing you.
 
Honestly I can kinda get where Paul's coming from. Allying with Varnathon may be better for Qward but so long as the Antimonitor himself does not return then having a weak, divided and pointlessly self sabotaging Qward is probably better for the universe at large.
 
what a shame. i think varny would make a better ally than kalmin. also is qward the only planet in the anti-matter verse?

No, there are other planets there, Qward is just dominant.

can you elaborate more on this? what are the interests that would be unsatisfied if he is left alive?

Varnathon still wants to create an evil empire, just not an omnicidal one, so if he lets him go other people will suffer.

Huh. I think Paul is thinking very long term? As in, he wants Earth to be the dominant power in the universe. And a reformed Qward Empire would be a competitor.

I don't think it would be because they can be a competitor, but rather because they'll be an evil competitor.

Paul has helped other species, and they may potentially compete with Earth, but they're not evil, and even though Varnathon wants to reform Qward, it's still an evil empire.

What exactly is Kalmin doing for OL again? Cause this seems like a really dumb move in the long and short term.

I know he made a blue Lantern for Alan and is helping with building weapons to fight the Reach.

Honestly I can kinda get where Paul's coming from. Allying with Varnathon may be better for Qward but so long as the Antimonitor himself does not return then having a weak, divided and pointlessly self sabotaging Qward is probably better for the universe at large.

Good point, though Varnathon seemed willing to stay in his universe, which I don't think Kalmin would be.
 
Pointlessly self-sabotaging or not, better normal space imperialism in another dimension than having them continue to actively seek the destruction of all life.

Though he really should have vaporized Kalmin once the Blue Ring was created for Alan as his services are no longer required. Keeping him around is pointless. Or hell, if he doesn't even want a reformed Qward to be a thing then just fucking blow up their planet and exterminate the rest of the Qwardians for good measure instead of continuing to help Kalmin.

As things currently stand, Paul seems to be pursuing the dumbest possible outcome.
 
I think I get Paul's rationale. Varnathon may make Qward a better society, and is basically OL as a q'ardajin but the problem is he's OL as a q'ardajin. (OL, whose morality forced him to exterminate a race he thought was shitty - which, they are, but still - what if Varnathon decides some other race is shitty, and pulls an OL with qwa-matter?) Problem or not, what OL wants is resources and developers, which Kalmin gives him.

Varnathon, as good and benevolent (using the term loosely) as he is, isn't really helping out Paul in any way shape or form. He doesn't care what happens to Qward, the Anti-Monitor has fucked off and what a race of assholes does on their own planet is their own business. At least in keeping Kalmin happy, he gets cool tech. Don't think Varnathon would've made a blue ring for Alan.

Also, no Varnathon, no Universal-Level Champion of Avarice Host of Ophidian Enlightened Killing bombs.
 
What exactly is Kalmin doing for OL again? Cause this seems like a really dumb move in the long and short term.

Making weapons.

Although the only active deal I can recall is Kalmin making him a blue ring if Paul offs Sinestro.

So Paul seems to be thinking like a video game character here- Taking the quest that means giving up loot? NEVER!
 
If his life was on the line then I think he would have made a ring, or had someone else do it.

I doubt Varnathon has the skills to make power rings; I forget how he even came to power in the first place actually since it doesn't seem related to technical proficiency.
Paragon primarily wants Kalmin for his skills; it's a shame he didn't encounter Lysis like Renegade did, since she seems proficient enough in power ring construction without being a Dark Kantian like Kalmin (or at least far from the same extent). Kalmin is probably superior, but that just makes him a bigger threat. Especially if he takes the young Qwardians under his wing.

I wonder how Hinon will react to this course of events and Paragon's actions. I'm sure she's developed contingency plans and things, though the fact that she didn't even know Kalmin was making a blue power ring and lantern until after it was done doesn't paint her (or whatever Maltusian who really should be assigned to watch over a former High Weaponlord) in the best light.
 
also is qward the only planet in the anti-matter verse?
No. There's actually an anti-matter Earth, though the SI hasn't visited it as yet.
can you elaborate more on this? what are the interests that would be unsatisfied if he is left alive?
Qward gets organised and so presents an active threat that knows where Maltus is.
'different'
'glares'
'same'
Thank you, corrected.
If he tortured and killed them later then it should be 'vivisected'
Mostly they were still alive. The rings tended to shut down if they were killed.
 
11th July 2012
16:08 GMT


"I'm not-. Varnathon. He's-" Varnathon turns back to the students. "-probably a dozen t-units away by now!"

Different accent, difference cadence and different diction. I don't know if he's actually matching the man he looks like but he can't have gotten this far in life without being good at something.
And clearly that something is being a conniving snake with a talent for keeping his head attached in this culture... No doubt he'll say anything to survive. Let's see how well he handles this situation.

The one-armed woman looks cautiously at me.

"Robot?"
I like her, she's got some brains in that head. This 'robot' is visibly acting more complex than any Weaponer would code it to be? Must be something special. So it's clearly in charge, even above the Council member accompanying it.

I smile and send my heavy armour into subspace, replacing it with construct armour.

"Surprise! I-."

One of the students reflexively shoots me.
I'd say something about trigger discipline, but really, this is a combat zone. He can be excused for a twitch reaction. Do it again, though, and OL might get annoyed.

"You know, I can see why you were assigned to medical experimentation."

The student next to him swivels on his heel and punches him in the face, knocking him to the deck.
Ah, the Qwardian equivalent of the Dope Slap, I see. Probably a lot more effective at getting a message through thick Thunderer skulls, too.

"Thank you. So, Varnathon, are you willing to accept that I can scan you through whatever disguise you're wearing, or do I have to stab and electrocute you until I work out how to turn it off?"

One-arm q'ardajin frowns.

"He's probably using a simple mass diffractor. A relatively small-."
I mean, she probably wouldn't mind you slashing and electrocuting him, given the shit she's been through today because of his policies... Suprised she isn't more concerned about her arm, really.

"Stab and electrocute, because it's not always about efficiency."

"You're the Orange Lantern who-? I thought you'd kill him!"
I take it that's Varnathon forgetting himself there. After all, would the students even know what an Orange Lantern is? And of course, a good surprise is always the best way to expose someone in disguise...

He reaches up and touches his forehead, the disguise evaporating a moment later.

"Why didn't you kill him!? You had a perfect opportunity!"
Because Kalmin was more useful alive. Honestly, it's like he's not even paying attention. If Varnathon's received any information from the Reach alongside their payments for Qwa-Matter, the Illustres of the Orange Lantern Corps would be a major data point in it.

"I wanted his skills."

"Do you have any idea how many people he's killed?!"

"An entire planet driven mad with fear for Sinestro's ring alone."
And that's Canon, by the way. Thankfully later rings are less setup-intensive. Unless they really drove 3,600 (7,200 if matching the current Greens) separate planets to destruction to farm the fear...

"That's the least of it! Two species went extinct when he tested out the antithesis ring delivery system alone! He hunter down and dissected dozens of Green Lantern, then tortured them to death to try and work out how their connections to their rings worked!"

I nod.

"Do you have their names? It would help with their record-keeping."
Yeah, It's definitely vivisection if they were still alive to be tortured later, unless he scooped up more when the dissections failed to reveal any useful data. And honestly, I can see Kalmin ordering that.

"You don't..? Care?"

"The fact that Kalmin's evil isn't exactly news to me. I'm a little surprised that you're so excised about it, though."
That may sound callous, but remember, Enlightened OL has always been about 'Want the End, want the Means.' If he needs to work with a monster like Kalmin, than he will. What happens when Kalmin's usefulness is ended? Well, that probably depends on how evil Kalmin still is then...

"You're working with a man who genuinely wants to destroy all reality!"

"Yes?"
Well, it doesn't have to be right away, does it? That bridge can be crossed when it comes to it, after all.

"Why?!"

"I really need someone with his skill set. And there's only so much evil he can do when we're watching him so closely."
True, that. I expect the Controllers have a very close watch on him. Not to the point of annoying him, that could prove painful... But keep in mind, the Controllers are the people who made things like Sun-Eaters, too...

"I thought I was watching him, then you and the ginger-haired Green Lantern turned up!"

"Look, are you going somewhere with this?"
"Because I do have places to be, things to do. Get the state of my soul checked up on and all that."

"I've been reforming q'ardajin society! The Council of Commanders are stupefied into indolence, the Thunderers reduced to menacing the few aliens who actually come here and the remaining Weaponers building for export! This is the least destructive Qward has ever been!"

"That's-. You're actually trying to make Qward less evil?"
"Good god, it's strange to see this from the outside..." And yet, his approach is still flawed. People like Kalmin are still out there, ready to overthrow him and put things back the proper way. His position is precarious as hell because of that.

"I understand your scepticism, but yes!"

One-arm points her gun at his head. "Explain yourself."
Yes, please do, this should be amazing to hear.

"We're a species governed by mad scientists! I'm in the process of changing our culture so that we'll become a normal empire, conquering people to exploit their resources and to swell our egos, not out of a sense of obligation to a god who quite literally wants to kill us!" He glare at me. "Why are you even here!?"

"You're trading with the Reach."
True, he does have a point. The problem is, as Darko noted, people will still suffer no matter how they operate. And if said Omnicidal God shows up, who do you think is going to be first on his chopping block, Varnathon?

"Probably? Who are-? The ones with no noses and beetle-themed elite soldiers?"

"Yes. You sold them qwa-matter."

"For which they paid extremely well. Access to their supply chains and distribution networks will enrich Qward without giving them anything radically different to the weapons they already deploy."
Except for the whole 'total annihilation field' effect Qwa-Matter can do. True, it's hardly as bad as some of the weapons they have ('Possible Theological implications', anyone?) But it's more likely to fuck things up worse when things inevitably go wrong. That is a big concern...

"Are you aware that they're fighting the Orange Lantern Corps?"

He stares at me for a few moments.

"Oh eat my marrow."
Yeah, you just realised... You. Dun. Goofed. :V He's seeing his future circling the drain right now, isn't he?

"Why were we selected for medical experimentation?"

"Because to change the q'ardajin I need to be able to control them. I need at least one generation of Weaponers to not try and overthrow the existing order. I need stability."
No, you wanted idiots too uncaring, short-sighted or just dumb to question things changing. That sort of selection rarely works out well for any race in the future...

"We learned all the lessons we were taught, we did all we were asked, and you decided that you couldn't use us."

"Yes, but that doesn't matter now! You, Lantern, you could take them. Take them back to your universe with you, and I'll continue to change Qward. I'll even agree not to sell to anyone in the matter universe. Grant me isolation and I'll make a Qward that has forgotten both you and the Anti-Monitor!"
Now, that sounds nice and all, but...

Ah, man. I don't like deliberately making a society worse, but this is Qward we're talking about. And he's right; I could drop a group of young q'ardajin off with Dox's Research and Development people… Heck, I could probably talk Dr. Sivana into taking them on as graduate students. Amalak would take them. He's probably got plenty of opportunities for ruthless, self-motivated young people with no next of kin.
And it'd be interesting to see if they could lose that 'token evil' streak that Qwardians have been tarred with. Granted, they're probably too old to comfortably change that much, but it's worth the experiment.

"Alright lads and lasses. How would you feel about working away from home?"

One arm lowers her gun slightly.

"Not excited, but it's better than medical experimentation."
True. I suspect most things are better than Medical Experimentation on Qward, though.

"That's a positive attitude if ever I heard one. Varnathon, I need to verify your story. You're wearing something that shields you against mental intrusion. Please remove it."

He touches his forehead cybergraft and… Ah, there we go. I can see him.

Why are these idiots always tearing everything down? Don't they see how much stronger we could be if we used our resources more efficiently?
Really, I can see OL seeing a lot of himself in Varnathon, but still...

O-oh. It's like looking at myself. And not just because I'm feeling what he's feeling. He sees the some potential in Qward that I see in Earth; not just serving an uncaring god but building a mighty empire across the stars.
'Mighty Empire across the Stars' does not strike the same note as OL's enlightened desire to uplift Humanity. I mean, yes, early on, Humans probably would be tempted to go the Empire route...

!Renegade Interrupt!

But it's just not in my interests to let him.
And this is already raising hackles in the thread, I see. But I can see where OL is coming from. There are just too many variables to predict where Varnathon would take things in the long term. For all we know, he'd drive Qward into a hole, or trigger a social backlash far worse than what we've seen, triggering a new crusade against all life in the Matter universe. Or it might be like Legion's loyalty mission in ME2, where the final choice is really picking from two bad ends (and should have awarded Renegade points either way.)

I stick a construct muzzle over his face.

"Kalmin, come to my location. We have him."
Hey, you never know, Mr Zoat might be following a 'golden path' playguide for this quest, that gives far better long-term benefits than the obvious ones we see. Handing Varnathon over to Kalmin might not see him promptly Qwa-bolted out of existence... Especially if their relationship values are just right.

It's still too soon to see just how this choice will play out. I'm sure we'll find out in episodes to come. For all we know, the students OL takes with him come back in a couple of years and overthrow Qwardian society, reforming it entirely. And honestly, Qward as it is is a known quantity, with clear goals. Varnathon might have led it into places whose outcomes can't be so easily managed. After all, isn't it 'Better the devil you know, than the devil you don't'?

I'm a little surprised that you're so excised about it, though.
I'm a little surprised that you're so excited about it, though.
 
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But it's just not in my interests to let him.

I stick a construct muzzle over his face.

"Kalmin, come to my location. We have him."

... Disappointing.

Like, i understand that his speech about wanting to be a normal empire that invades it's neighbours for resources isn't totally compelling, but you're taking about an Anti-Monitor cult here.

Literally anything would be an improvement. Both for Qward and the galaxy as a whole.

Honestly feels like Paul would be better off shooting Kalmin in the back and backing this dude instead.
Like... I get that Kalmin built Alan's lantern, but that's already done now and his usefulness going forwards has to be weighed against the fact that he's a Universal-Destruction Cultist.

I don't put any stock into the idea that Paul is 'keeping an eye on him'

There are just too many variables to predict where Varnathon would take things in the long term.

This is true, but we already know where Kalmin is going to take things long-term.
Omnicide.

So... literally anything would be better than that.
The only sensible thing to do is squeeze as much tech and weapons as you can out of him as you can, then shoot him in the back.
And obviously Kalmin is doing exactly the same thing. Working together as long as you're useful, but he's still measuring your back for a knife because he wants to kill everything in the universe, and naturally that includes you.

The winning move is to betray him before he betrays you, and with enough force to actually make it stick.
 
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What exactly is Kalmin doing for OL again? Cause this seems like a really dumb move in the long and short term.
The thing is, Kalmin becomes a problem only if he succeeds at "fixing" Qward, which is a big "if", given how all the weaponers they've met reacted to his religious ramblings. Meanwhile, Varnathon was already succeeding in turning Qward more expansionist, which isn't exactly a good development.
 
The thing is, Kalmin becomes a problem only if he succeeds at "fixing" Qward, which is a big "if", given how all the weaponers they've met reacted to his religious ramblings. Meanwhile, Varnathon was already succeeding in turning Qward more expansionist, which isn't exactly a good development.

No, Kalmin is a problem because he desires to destroy the universe.

He's working with OL because he believes that cooperating is allowing him ot develop better weapons and increase his potential capacity for destruction, but sooner or later he's going to stop working on increasing his potential destructive ability and start working on actually using that destructive ability to realize his end-goal.

He'll turn his guns against the universe, because that's what his religion dictates that he has to do.

A fanaticized Qward would be a terrible weapon, but I imagine Kalmin is still capable of causing sector-wide destruction all on his lonesome, as soon as he decides the time is right.

Better to shoot him in the back before that moment comes.
 
Better the Devil you know. Also, Paul undoubtedly has contingency plans for Kalmin, while a unified, ACTIVE Qward is a danger to not just the Anti-Matter Universe, but has shown to be willing to show that it will deal in the Positive Matter Universe as well. Thus, good bye to Hope to a better tomorrow on Qward.
 
No, Kalmin is a problem because he desires to destroy the universe.

He's working with OL because he believes that cooperating is allowing him ot develop better weapons and increase his potential capacity for destruction, but sooner or later he's going to stop working on increasing his potential destructive ability and start working on actually using that destrictive ability to realize his end-goal.

He'll turn his guns against the universe, because that's what his religion dictates that he has to do.
Better to shoot him in the back before that moment comes.
There's no appreciable difference between destroying the universe and random acts of warmongering at the scale he can operate on in the foreseable future. Unless he manages to get Qward as a whole back on board. Which is what I commented on in the first place.
 
There's no appreciable difference between destroying the universe and random acts of warmongering at the scale he can operate on in the foreseable future. Unless he manages to get Qward as a whole back on board. Which is what I commented on in the first place.

Like I edited into my above post, I'm pretty sure Kalmin could take out a sector or two, if he really wanted to. He's a former high-weaponeer and a strict adherent of the anti-monitor, he's a lot more dangerous than your standard qwardian weapons developer.

If a more mercantile Qward seeks to trade or even just steal natural resources then they probably can't afford to blow up people's suns or shatter planets into gravel.
Although I guess seeding plagues onto planets would be a great way to remove the pesky native population so that you can steal their resources.

TLDR, Kalmin is an exceptional version of his race. I'd rate his personal destructive potential about as high as Qward's itself.
Partially because of his skills but also because of his omnicidal motivation.
 
I have to agree with OL's choice here. I'll much rather them stay at home and keep rolling the dice on trying to one shot everything, over a future Reach which have better and more destructive tech. While slow and steady is less likely to destroy everything, it's much more likely to threaten the stuff OL actually cares about.
 
You should write a few chapters where Paul arrives in orbit around Qward in an alternate universe, instead of Earth.
He could probably do a better job than Varnathon, lol.
 

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