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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)
- Thread starter Mr Zoat
- Start date
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- self insert young justice
NightmareWarden
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Achievement Unlocked! Category: Video Games. Name: Binding of Isaac item stash.
Chojin Patriarch
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Curiouser and curiouser, as they go down the rabbit hole. How strange that whatever conceptual defences this has doesn't prevent the Maltusian tech working, when it read as invisible to their sensors...
As if it were infused with the very concept of Concealment.
"Only one way to find out for sure."
Begrudging functionality, I suppose. Out of courtesy for Grayven, or has she learnt some measure of talent with Fear?
Heh. I suppose that's damning with faint praise, coming from him.
"I was wondering when you'd notice."
So... Is the whatever-this-is not as deserted as they initially thought, I wonder?
Or it's been declared obsolete. Or whoever created it was killed without telling anyone it existed.
And then erase the memory as best he could? That's going to extremes to hide something.
So it doesn't recognise his authority. Perhaps he'll have to exert himself?
"Not much to see anyway." Indeed, looks like they arrived in the custodial closet.
And it's clearly bad, if you're reacting like this. Are you sure you want to poke this?
With prejudice. The last thing you want is that kind of trouble getting out.
No locks? Presumably this was a place for one or two trusted workers, then.
Ah, Kirby art at it's finest and most abstract. Something nearly every adaption fails to do justice.
"I think I know what this was used for..."
"No, thank the Source."
Well, that's a hell of a thing to find buried under a slain world...
And leaves a worrying opening for him to force his way back into dominance of your shared form. If Conquest can overpower Acquisition...
Baron Bedlam, though information is sparse on that wiki (The alternatives are Outsider foes of Prince Brion Markov.) But I could see him coming out of something like this.
"To borrow a phrase: 'It's all Greek to me.'"
Probably something akin to a hive-mind - every body having the same mind, without dissent.
Backup bodies? Or maybe... The ability to be in more than one place at a time might be useful for a conqueror. Direct control on multiple battlefields and war-zones simultaneously.
...One problem with that theory. And she's living in challenger Mountain.
...Huh. I suppose nothing says Grayven's mother actually bore him in the old-fashioned way.
A moment of self-doubt, Renegade?
...Oh, this is heading into a big old pile of 'Nope'.
'Me' as in the Earth-Prime human you started as, or 'me' as in the local Grayven's body you're inhabiting?
And there's the 'Nope'! Noping all the way out of there would be a good idea now!
Well. Well... That happened. At what point did we stumble into the horror movie edition of 'Young Justice'? At any rate, that's enough to send just about anyone else heading for the hills. ...And yet, I get the feeling they've seen worse in Sheeda times. Gods only know what else they're going to stumble across in here. Let's just hope this place isn't guarded by anything... Or anyone.
Vaermina
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Well, I guess that explains why Artemis was able to do what she did.
He wasn't the real Grayven either.
It also explains why Darkseid was willing to play the game he did with Renegade, he wanted to see if Fatherbox soul modification of humans was another path to making copies of New Gods.
Mr Zoat
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Baby Grayven faces.
Thank you, corrected.
Not that I'm judging you or anything, but I've never written Grayven as wearing any kind of thong.
Chaoswind
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The mask became the face and then he literally merged with OG Grayven, for all intents anf purposes Renegade is Grayven.
Vaermina
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He believes the lie because he mindbroke himself via Fatherbox.
Darko
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To be fair, the artwork could be annoying and may cause a stroke to some people.
What looks good on paper may not look so good animated or in live action.
If you're talking about Mortalla, then that's not true.
When renegade fought Actually Grayven, Actually Grayven told him that Mortalla wasn't his mother but just one of Darkseid's concubines.
Actually Grayven's mom is apparently dead.
Probably around the time we met Cranius.
There was a moment way way back in the past where he seemed to notice that he was doing that and tried to stop himself.
DrThoth
I trust you know where the happy button is?
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That seems a little harsh, not to mention scandalous, to both Mr Zoat and his father
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Flightless Man
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Would have been funny if one of the one shot pauls, was just paul who never inserted. At the grocery store or something, getting in a debate with the clerk and complaining about some of the things he fixed in the different universes.
Mr Zoat
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Biology teacher, and he's retired now.
Not unless there's something Dad really needs to tell me.
Rafin
Not too sore, are you?
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What? Then how in all hells did Fatherbox make Rene!Paul into such a good parallel to Grayven? Is he again so into his role that he forgot that? Because otherwise all you need to clone a dead New God should be a good soul recording by Desaad, a powerful yet soulless humanoid entity, a device to mold its flesh body and a Father Box.
BR549
This is filth! FILTH!!
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At any rate, that's enough to send just about anyone else heading for the hills.
"You know, there are some Decepticons who, upon finding themselves in a skin-covered room surrounded by aborted protoforms and mechanoids made of bark, would rub their hands together, marvel at the universe's infinite capacity for surprise and dive right in. I am not one of those Decepticons. I say we run away screaming." - Misfire, More than Meets the Eye #7
Ngamer11
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Perhaps the fact that Paul came from a universe that couldn't sustain souls meant that just giving him one via Fatherbox's influence turned him into an effective copy of Grayven that can't be duplicated due to the differing physical laws between the universes?
BR549
This is filth! FILTH!!
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To quote a line related to Scion 2nd Edition: He walked with the god until the god was forced to walk with him.
Dur'id the Druid
Know what you're doing yet?
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Pinklestia
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So? Local Grayven was an experiment, that explains Darkseid mostly ignoring him.
My Little Pony has Dungeon and Dragons mosters because Hasbro owns Dungeons and Dragons.
Cranius.
The Horror was always here.
Valint
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Wasn't one of the theories raised in-story that the original Paul was literally a Grayven who either deliberately or was forced to live a life as a mortal on Earth-Prime, to increase his understanding of life? (All very xianxia-like.)
I mean, at least in the Renegade's version, his backstory has surpassed both Donna Troy and Power Girl in terms of no one being sure what the truth is any more, including both the MC and the readers in the 'no one'.
boo600
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Huh.
On the one hand, this makes sense - New Gods draw power from the Source, etc.
On the other hand, I distinctly remember Grayven (Paul) reassuring Zatanna (back when he was turning his team into gods) that New Godhood would have no impact on where their souls ended up - basically, that she'd still go to Heaven. Be able to see her mom, that sort of thing. Not just merge with the Source.
Did René!Paul not know what he was talking about, or was he lying? Or, given that he's speaking of himself and Artemis, neither of whom is religious, is that merely what happens to atheistic New Gods?
It certainly seems suboptimal for this Paul and his friends - people should not die when they are killed, if they have the resources to do otherwise. Sure, biological immortality is nice, but look at Parapaul and his experiences with Qa-matter and the Heavenly Host. Surely working on a redirection method is worth considering?
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Stsword
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Soulless living bodies aren't that easy to come by, in Zoat cosmology they die quickly, empty shells missing that vital spark, the Pauls are an exception to that rule.
So presumably these clones have their own souls, which interferes, whereas Renegade was a tabula rasa spiritually.
Well unless the soulless vampire people of Atlantean myth are real.
Darko
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He wouldn't technically be lying, but is just leaving out a lot of details.
Humans that end up in Heaven apparently may merge with God, who in this story may be the Source, or at least an avatar of it or uses its power, so they kinda can meet their parents to and non-New God family/friends.
Vaermina
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Yes, but that was something a different Paul found out, not Grayven.
Doccer
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Which episode is that? I've been considering getting I to the series and I'd like to know what 1 to look for.
AmericanNumbers
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I think People miss that it isn't just Renegade believing the "lie" but that it's been clearly established that Paul lacked a soul in the DC universe way and that Renegade did not get that corrected before he went down the Grayven path and wound up with DARKSEID having straight up access to the blank canvas that was his soul. Darkseid made him Grayven and if Darkseid wills it? It effectively IS.
Cuchulin
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Darksied IS and it is as Darkseid wills.
Xmaster3000
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You're gonna wanna start from season one, but the episode Darko is talking about is in season two. The episode in question heavily implies that someone (not saying who 'cause it's a spoiler) is a clone, and is not the first clone of that individual by a long shot.
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Regnancy (part 8)
Mr Zoat
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28th October 2012
21:32 GMT
"…because I would be fired."
Ploutos strums the fingers of his right hand against the side of his coffee cup, avoiding my eyes. For a moment I feel awkward about hassling an old man, before I remind myself that while he is old he's younger than quite a few of the Olympians I've already spoken to and been turned down by.
"Wouldn't that be economic suicide?"
"Only in the same sense that smoking is suicide. The fundamentals of an economy are not harmed by short term price fluctuations. Real economic damage kills slowly but surely. The office I hold and the privileges that come with it are the most a person can hold in Greece without being elected. And because I am not elected and because it is my job to tell people who want to spend money they don't have that they can't, I don't have the support of a political machine and I don't have the support of the cabinet."
"But you have the support of your peers-. You don't, because they want your job."
"It's not as if I'm ever going to retire, after all."
"You'd have to eventually, wouldn't you? I mean, they're going to notice eventually."
"There are people in this world who do not age as most do. It would be simple to 'discover' that I was descended from a demigod or some such thing, particularly with people growing accustomed to being guarded by the Heraklya."
"I was surprised by how many of them volunteered."
Given the effort it's taken to persuade other Amazons to go through the Dolmen Gate, the fact that most of Herakles' daughters were happy to decamp to the mainland came as a bit of a surprise. Particularly given the number of statues that had to be relocated in a hurry. Still, it's… Making the people of Greece feel a good deal safer, and been a major boon to the tourist industry.
And not just from lesbians.
It's also made it hard for the Orthodox Church to complain too much about the pagans, though that's probably going to change in the not-too-distant future. Having living proof of the power of the Olympians hanging around has emboldened the pagans, and… It's interesting to watch them trying to speak to the Amazons in Ancient Greek.
I imagine it's like saying 'ayve' to a Roman and then being confused as to why they tell you to go away.
"I was not."
"Oh?"
"During Themyscira's brief and fleeting contacts with the world outside of their island, it was usually the Heraklya who made the journey. Hippolyta knows that the government in Athens has no malice for her or her people, but that would not stop a single individual attacking them. The Heraklya are even more capable of taking care of themselves than their sister Amazons."
"And because despite everything they're still defined by their father."
"Which is not a bad thing as far as the rest of Greece is concerned."
"The Archbishop's speech rather suggested otherwise."
"It was a moderation on his former position, and an indication of the direction of travel. It is usually unwise for churchmen to spring things on their parishioners. They have long since acknowledged that we Olympians exist, and it actually helps their position that the Heraklya hold their father in such low regard."
"So..?"
"So I will wait between five years and a decade, until such things are normalised if not fully accepted, then I will make a quiet announcement concerning my own 'heritage'."
"But a hard 'no' on acting as God of Commerce?"
"You have a compromise in mind?"
"Hellenism isn't exactly a major world religion at the moment."
"That is true. And if I were to take the job, I doubt that it would be much different to the lectures I am periodically called upon to give to my fellow economists. Some time away from the office, but returning to Olympus rather than Davos."
"I'm sure that Hephaestaean would prefer it if you were actively trying to proselytise, sharing your wisdom with anyone who needed it. But taking a day or two a month to answer those who request your guidance shouldn't be any great burden."
"No." He nods. "No, I suppose that you are correct. And Hephaestaean does not want me to control a company for him?"
"Given the rate at which I've been picking up rejections today, I think he'll be glad that you're willing to do anything."
"Ah, yes. I see how that could happen. Despite his power, Zeus was never ambitious. He fought Cronus for his own survival and took power as his due, not because he sought it for its own sake."
"Jesus never sought power for its own sake, and the religion he inspired is the largest on the planet."
"True, but I have my suspicions about Paul and he founded the institution."
"Not going to tell me that you met him?"
"He would hardly have asked me for business advice. No, if you want to hear about the early church, I suggest speaking with Athena."
"It has been suggested to me that I might like to avoid unplanned encounters with gods."
A wry smile. "It may be wise. Will Hephaestaean expect me to offer him advice on how best to use the technology he is developing?"
"I imagine that he would appreciate it, but he's willing to take whatever you're willing to offer. I.. work in a field where many of my contemporaries maintain separate identities for their civilian lives and heroic lives. That sort of deceit is really quite common."
"A superhero of economics. I have never been referred to as that in such a literal way. Very well: I agree. You may tell Hephaestaean that I am willing to act as a part time God of Commerce, advising the rest of the pantheon and the most ardent of our worshippers."
"And in the future-?"
"In.. the future, I may be willing to revise my position. Depending on what else is happening. The difficulty is that I am not prepared to do half a job with the Greek economy, or half a job as a god."
"Is there anyone you can train up for either job?"
"No one I'd trust." He sighs. "I will speak with the Rector of the University of Athens about increasing the number of lectures I deliver. I should be able to sense anyone sufficiently capable, and I should be able to find time to mentor them. I have a suspicion that a man like you will not rest until this theological restructuring happens, whether the world is willing or not."
"And on that note, do you want a power ring?"
He frowns, his eyes dipping to my hands for a moment.
"Why would you offer me one of those?"
"It would explain the longevity without you needing to make overt reference to the Hellenic mythos, and allow you to move far faster than a normal man. The fact that I consult with you is already well known, so it wouldn't seem strange that I might give you one."
"I will have to think on it at some length."
21:32 GMT
"…because I would be fired."
Ploutos strums the fingers of his right hand against the side of his coffee cup, avoiding my eyes. For a moment I feel awkward about hassling an old man, before I remind myself that while he is old he's younger than quite a few of the Olympians I've already spoken to and been turned down by.
"Wouldn't that be economic suicide?"
"Only in the same sense that smoking is suicide. The fundamentals of an economy are not harmed by short term price fluctuations. Real economic damage kills slowly but surely. The office I hold and the privileges that come with it are the most a person can hold in Greece without being elected. And because I am not elected and because it is my job to tell people who want to spend money they don't have that they can't, I don't have the support of a political machine and I don't have the support of the cabinet."
"But you have the support of your peers-. You don't, because they want your job."
"It's not as if I'm ever going to retire, after all."
"You'd have to eventually, wouldn't you? I mean, they're going to notice eventually."
"There are people in this world who do not age as most do. It would be simple to 'discover' that I was descended from a demigod or some such thing, particularly with people growing accustomed to being guarded by the Heraklya."
"I was surprised by how many of them volunteered."
Given the effort it's taken to persuade other Amazons to go through the Dolmen Gate, the fact that most of Herakles' daughters were happy to decamp to the mainland came as a bit of a surprise. Particularly given the number of statues that had to be relocated in a hurry. Still, it's… Making the people of Greece feel a good deal safer, and been a major boon to the tourist industry.
And not just from lesbians.
It's also made it hard for the Orthodox Church to complain too much about the pagans, though that's probably going to change in the not-too-distant future. Having living proof of the power of the Olympians hanging around has emboldened the pagans, and… It's interesting to watch them trying to speak to the Amazons in Ancient Greek.
I imagine it's like saying 'ayve' to a Roman and then being confused as to why they tell you to go away.
"I was not."
"Oh?"
"During Themyscira's brief and fleeting contacts with the world outside of their island, it was usually the Heraklya who made the journey. Hippolyta knows that the government in Athens has no malice for her or her people, but that would not stop a single individual attacking them. The Heraklya are even more capable of taking care of themselves than their sister Amazons."
"And because despite everything they're still defined by their father."
"Which is not a bad thing as far as the rest of Greece is concerned."
"The Archbishop's speech rather suggested otherwise."
"It was a moderation on his former position, and an indication of the direction of travel. It is usually unwise for churchmen to spring things on their parishioners. They have long since acknowledged that we Olympians exist, and it actually helps their position that the Heraklya hold their father in such low regard."
"So..?"
"So I will wait between five years and a decade, until such things are normalised if not fully accepted, then I will make a quiet announcement concerning my own 'heritage'."
"But a hard 'no' on acting as God of Commerce?"
"You have a compromise in mind?"
"Hellenism isn't exactly a major world religion at the moment."
"That is true. And if I were to take the job, I doubt that it would be much different to the lectures I am periodically called upon to give to my fellow economists. Some time away from the office, but returning to Olympus rather than Davos."
"I'm sure that Hephaestaean would prefer it if you were actively trying to proselytise, sharing your wisdom with anyone who needed it. But taking a day or two a month to answer those who request your guidance shouldn't be any great burden."
"No." He nods. "No, I suppose that you are correct. And Hephaestaean does not want me to control a company for him?"
"Given the rate at which I've been picking up rejections today, I think he'll be glad that you're willing to do anything."
"Ah, yes. I see how that could happen. Despite his power, Zeus was never ambitious. He fought Cronus for his own survival and took power as his due, not because he sought it for its own sake."
"Jesus never sought power for its own sake, and the religion he inspired is the largest on the planet."
"True, but I have my suspicions about Paul and he founded the institution."
"Not going to tell me that you met him?"
"He would hardly have asked me for business advice. No, if you want to hear about the early church, I suggest speaking with Athena."
"It has been suggested to me that I might like to avoid unplanned encounters with gods."
A wry smile. "It may be wise. Will Hephaestaean expect me to offer him advice on how best to use the technology he is developing?"
"I imagine that he would appreciate it, but he's willing to take whatever you're willing to offer. I.. work in a field where many of my contemporaries maintain separate identities for their civilian lives and heroic lives. That sort of deceit is really quite common."
"A superhero of economics. I have never been referred to as that in such a literal way. Very well: I agree. You may tell Hephaestaean that I am willing to act as a part time God of Commerce, advising the rest of the pantheon and the most ardent of our worshippers."
"And in the future-?"
"In.. the future, I may be willing to revise my position. Depending on what else is happening. The difficulty is that I am not prepared to do half a job with the Greek economy, or half a job as a god."
"Is there anyone you can train up for either job?"
"No one I'd trust." He sighs. "I will speak with the Rector of the University of Athens about increasing the number of lectures I deliver. I should be able to sense anyone sufficiently capable, and I should be able to find time to mentor them. I have a suspicion that a man like you will not rest until this theological restructuring happens, whether the world is willing or not."
"And on that note, do you want a power ring?"
He frowns, his eyes dipping to my hands for a moment.
"Why would you offer me one of those?"
"It would explain the longevity without you needing to make overt reference to the Hellenic mythos, and allow you to move far faster than a normal man. The fact that I consult with you is already well known, so it wouldn't seem strange that I might give you one."
"I will have to think on it at some length."
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