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Curiouser and curiouser, as they go down the rabbit hole. How strange that whatever conceptual defences this has doesn't prevent the Maltusian tech working, when it read as invisible to their sensors...28th October 2012
20:07 GMT
"…risk a boom tube?"
I nod to myself as Artemis speaks through my ring. Neither radio waves nor New God type communicators get through, but power rings work just fine.
As if it were infused with the very concept of Concealment."No, with the Absolute Dominion in orbit I can use a hush tube. You sure it didn't react to your magic?"
"Not that I can see or feel."
"Only one way to find out for sure."
Begrudging functionality, I suppose. Out of courtesy for Grayven, or has she learnt some measure of talent with Fear?A hole in the universe opens just below me, and I drop down into… Darkness, illuminated only by Sinestro's glow. "How's he treating you?"
She grimaces, pulls it off her right middle finger and tosses it to me. I pull it onto my right ring finger.
Heh. I suppose that's damning with faint praise, coming from him."That bad?"
"Apparently I'm 'barely adequate, despite my upbringing'."
"I was wondering when you'd notice.""Would you rather be an excellent fit for a dictator who believed that order could only be maintained through fear?" I peer around, the darkness-. Wait.
Ping.
So... Is the whatever-this-is not as deserted as they initially thought, I wonder?"Can you see better than me?"
"Only if I make an effort. Does that mean there's someone here?"
Or it's been declared obsolete. Or whoever created it was killed without telling anyone it existed."No necessarily. And since we're not being inundated by parademons or aero-troopers, I tend to doubt it. Not sure how the system is powerful enough to mess with us like this." I frown, then shake my head. "Which is odd, because a system that can do that would be valuable and worth defending, particularly if it wasn't stripped for parts. But it isn't being defended."
Artemis readies an arrow. "Don't speak too soon." Death Awaits.
And then erase the memory as best he could? That's going to extremes to hide something."Obvious question, through. There's no outward sign that anything's here-."
"Where did other-you hear about it. If you still don't think he built it himself."
So it doesn't recognise his authority. Perhaps he'll have to exert himself?"A sufficiently traumatic head injury might just erase the memory, but that doesn't… Sound right." I walk over to the closest wall and place my left palm against it. Bow To My Will!
The stygian blackness pulls back a little, but scans still aren't telling me much. Mother Box?
"Not much to see anyway." Indeed, looks like they arrived in the custodial closet.Ping.
Great. Looks like we're in a store room of some sort. The few remaining crates are neatly stacked in the corner, no obvious detritus left around the place. No particular feeling from anything.
And it's clearly bad, if you're reacting like this. Are you sure you want to poke this?Oh.
"One possibility does come to mind, given the state of the outside."
With prejudice. The last thing you want is that kind of trouble getting out."Anti-Life research. Do we need to leave?"
"No. Incidental tertiary exposure shouldn't do much to us, though if we confirm it we'll need to leave and destroy the place from orbit."
No locks? Presumably this was a place for one or two trusted workers, then.My frown deepens as I shake my head, lifting my hand off the wall and armouring myself. No lock on the door, just a requirement for a minimal level of spiritual power. Easy enough to manage
"So if it's not that..?"
Ah, Kirby art at it's finest and most abstract. Something nearly every adaption fails to do justice.The door opens, the darkness retreating once more to… Reveal a laboratory? A small one. The machinery is a garish combination of purple, yellow and green and… I can't immediately call to mind a New God with that colour scheme. Evil colours, though, so that fits. A red and orange helmet that I'd be insane to try on sits on a small plinth, while a larger circular platform stands empty on one side. Teleporter? Fabricator? Viewing platform? Miniature safe room?
"I think I know what this was used for..."
"No, thank the Source."Artemis comes in behind me, eyes darting around. "Is it doing that now?"
Ping.
Well, that's a hell of a thing to find buried under a slain world...I find myself shaking my head again. "I don't know about that. I mean, yes, that technique could work, but why would anyone put a machine designed to resurrect New Gods away from Apokolips?"
Artemis glances at me. "You said we couldn't be resurrected."
And leaves a worrying opening for him to force his way back into dominance of your shared form. If Conquest can overpower Acquisition..."I definitely can't, you probably can't, because our souls will merge with the Source upon our deaths. That doesn't mean that we can't be cloned, just that… We wouldn't get much out of it." I move a little closer to the platform, trying to draw upon Other Grayven's earliest memories. "Darkseid had a team… Working on the problem. They never really solved it. They got to the point where the duplicates weren't totally mindless and could be taught, but they lacked the spiritual force of the originals." I smile. "That's one of the reasons how I know that I'm me and not a duplicate, despite merging with Other Grayven."
Baron Bedlam, though information is sparse on that wiki (The alternatives are Outsider foes of Prince Brion Markov.) But I could see him coming out of something like this."So they were making copies here?"
"Something like that. You couldn't make duplicates to use as infiltrators because they wouldn't have the knowledge or spiritual presence. You couldn't use the system to make powerful New Gods immortal for the same reason. Baron Bedlam's multiple plastic bodies were as far as the research got, as far as I know."
"To borrow a phrase: 'It's all Greek to me.'"I walk over to… Because of course there's no control panel. I walk over to a group of levers and haphazardly placed unmarked buttons, hoping that Mother Box will be able to do something with it.
Ping.
Probably something akin to a hive-mind - every body having the same mind, without dissent.
Backup bodies? Or maybe... The ability to be in more than one place at a time might be useful for a conqueror. Direct control on multiple battlefields and war-zones simultaneously."As I understand it, his consciousness isn't attached to any one body. He'd still die if all of his bodies were destroyed, but losing the odd one or two isn't more than an inconvenience."
"Any idea why Other Grayven wanted it? Or why it was abandoned?"
...One problem with that theory. And she's living in challenger Mountain."No. None." I take a closer look at the machine to see if anything springs to mind. "As far as I recall, he didn't know what was here. Only that it was something New God."
"You don't think he got made here?"
...Huh. I suppose nothing says Grayven's mother actually bore him in the old-fashioned way."No, the memories I got from him distinctly include his childhood."
"But that wouldn't mean he wasn't, right? They could have copied a child and then just let him grow up normally."
A moment of self-doubt, Renegade?"True, but there's no obvious benefit. I mean, he could have been an experiment to see what would happen, and… Darkseid wouldn't just throw him away if that's what happened because he might learn something out of it. But we're Darkseid's sons. Every memory I have of Apokolips includes us being referred to like that, and if…"
No.
...Oh, this is heading into a big old pile of 'Nope'.Mother Box, Sinestro, scan for my genetic material.
Lantern Grayven, you already know.
'Me' as in the Earth-Prime human you started as, or 'me' as in the local Grayven's body you're inhabiting?"Oh."
"What?"
"I have no memory of being here before, but there's genetic material from-." Why were there crates in the store room when everything else-? "From me here."
And there's the 'Nope'! Noping all the way out of there would be a good idea now!A construct claw grabs a crate and yanks it over to us before cutting it open.
A dozen foetuses with copies of my own face blankly stare up at me from their preservative jars.
Well, I guess that explains why Artemis was able to do what she did."I have no memory of being here before, but there's genetic material from-." Why were there crates in the store room when everything else-? "From me here."
A construct claw grabs a crate and yanks it over to us before cutting it open.
A dozen foetuses with copies of my own face blankly stare up at me from their preservative jars.
Baby Grayven faces.Just to confirm, him as in as a New God, or him as in his original body?
Thank you, corrected.
Not that I'm judging you or anything, but I've never written Grayven as wearing any kind of thong.So.ethong being dumb and insane to do hasn't stopped you before.
Have to admit the one thing that ruins the Grayven side story is how the idiot now believes his own lie.
He believes the lie because he mindbroke himself via Fatherbox.Have to admit the one thing that ruins the Grayven side story is how the idiot now believes his own lie.
Ah, Kirby art at it's finest and most abstract. Something nearly every adaption fails to do justice
...One problem with that theory. And she's living in challenger Mountain
Well. Well... That happened. At what point did we stumble into the horror movie edition of 'Young Justice
Have to admit the one thing that ruins the Grayven side story is how the idiot now believes his own lie.
That seems a little harsh, not to mention scandalous, to both Mr Zoat and his fatherNo, you're not.
Actually Grayven is the son of Darkseid, you're the sin of a British chemistry professor.
Would have been funny if one of the one shot pauls, was just paul who never inserted. At the grocery store or something, getting in a debate with the clerk and complaining about some of the things he fixed in the different universes.This is where IRL Zoat announces himself as Grayven Son of Darkseid IRL, isn't it?
Biology teacher, and he's retired now.Actually Grayven is the son of Darkseid, you're the son of a British chemistry professor.
Not unless there's something Dad really needs to tell me.This is where IRL Zoat announces himself as Grayven Son of Darkseid IRL, isn't it?
"I definitely can't, you probably can't, because our souls will merge with the Source upon our deaths. That doesn't mean that we can't be cloned, just that… We wouldn't get much out of it." I move a little closer to the platform, trying to draw upon Other Grayven's earliest memories. "Darkseid had a team… Working on the problem. They never really solved it. They got to the point where the duplicates weren't totally mindless and could be taught, but they lacked the spiritual force of the originals." I smile. "That's one of the reasons how I know that I'm me and not a duplicate, despite merging with Other Grayven."
At any rate, that's enough to send just about anyone else heading for the hills.
Perhaps the fact that Paul came from a universe that couldn't sustain souls meant that just giving him one via Fatherbox's influence turned him into an effective copy of Grayven that can't be duplicated due to the differing physical laws between the universes?What? Then how in all hells did Fatherbox make Rene!Paul into such a good parallel to Grayven? Is he again so into his role that he forgot that? Because otherwise all you need to clone a dead New God should be a good soul recording by Desaad, a powerful yet soulless humanoid entity, a device to mold its flesh body and a Father Box.
What? Then how in all hells did Fatherbox make Rene!Paul into such a good parallel to Grayven? Is he again so into his role that he forgot that? Because otherwise all you need to clone a dead New God should be a good soul recording by Desaad, a powerful yet soulless humanoid entity, a device to mold its flesh body and a Father Box.
A dozen foetuses with copies of my own face blankly stare up at me from their preservative jars.
Welp, that's horror. Fridge horror in fact.
I'll show myself out.
The mask became the face and then he literally merged with OG Grayven, for all intents anf purposes Renegade is Grayven.
Artemis glances at me. "You said we couldn't be resurrected."
"I definitely can't, you probably can't, because our souls will merge with the Source upon our deaths. That doesn't mean that we can't be cloned, just that… We wouldn't get much out of it." I move a little closer to the platform, trying to draw upon Other Grayven's earliest memories. "Darkseid had a team… Working on the problem. They never really solved it. They got to the point where the duplicates weren't totally mindless and could be taught, but they lacked the spiritual force of the originals." I smile. "That's one of the reasons how I know that I'm me and not a duplicate, despite merging with Other Grayven."
What? Then how in all hells did Fatherbox make Rene!Paul into such a good parallel to Grayven? Is he again so into his role that he forgot that? Because otherwise all you need to clone a dead New God should be a good soul recording by Desaad, a powerful yet soulless humanoid entity, a device to mold its flesh body and a Father Box.
Huh.
On the one hand, this makes sense - New Gods draw power from the Source, etc.
On the other hand, I distinctly remember Grayven (Paul) reassuring Zatanna (back when he was turning his team into gods) that New Godhood would have no impact on where their souls ended up - basically, that she'd still go to Heaven. Be able to see her mom, that sort of thing. Not just merge with the Source.
Did René!Paul not know what he was talking about, or was he lying? Or, given that he's speaking of himself and Artemis, neither of whom is religious, is that merely what happens to atheistic New Gods?
It certainly seems suboptimal for this Paul and his friends - people should not die when they are killed, if they have the resources to do otherwise. Sure, biological immortality is nice, but look at Parapaul and his experiences with Qu-matter and the Heavenly Host. Surely working on a redirection method is worth considering?
Yes, but that was something a different Paul found out, not Grayven.He wouldn't technically be lying, but is just leaving out a lot of details.
Humans that end up in Heaven apparently may merge with God, who in this story may be the Source, or at least an avatar of it or uses its power, so they kinda can meet their parents to and non-New God family/friends.
Which episode is that? I've been considering getting I to the series and I'd like to know what 1 to look for.Hmm, it's uncanny reading about this and watching the newest Owl House episode on the same day.
I think People miss that it isn't just Renegade believing the "lie" but that it's been clearly established that Paul lacked a soul in the DC universe way and that Renegade did not get that corrected before he went down the Grayven path and wound up with DARKSEID having straight up access to the blank canvas that was his soul. Darkseid made him Grayven and if Darkseid wills it? It effectively IS.
You're gonna wanna start from season one, but the episode Darko is talking about is in season two. The episode in question heavily implies that someone (not saying who 'cause it's a spoiler) is a clone, and is not the first clone of that individual by a long shot.Which episode is that? I've been considering getting I to the series and I'd like to know what 1 to look for.