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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

In the comics, Lonnie Machin managed to use Jade Scott's ring to change the universe's Planck Length over a small area in order to defeat a physics anomaly. I don't want to do that as I don't understand physics well enough to know what that would do, but I can alter the activation energy of particular chemical reactions in a similar way. Since I scanned the structure of the vines on the surface, a simple construct…

You know, in retrospect, this does seem quite odd.

I'm surprised that OL hasn't shown any interest in furthering his own education regarding physics and more traditional fields of study, or even the more metaphysical, magical ones.

With his ring, he should have all manner of advantages in becoming a better student, and self improvement through furthering his education would categorically be a net win for him.
 
"What about Constantine?"

"I can't see him. Can you?"
It would be hilarious if this is what fucks them over.



You know, in retrospect, this does seem quite odd.

I'm surprised that OL hasn't shown any interest in furthering his own education regarding physics and more traditional fields of study, or even the more metaphysical, magical ones.

With his ring, he should have all manner of advantages in becoming a better student, and self improvement through furthering his education would categorically be a net win for him.
Don't forget LePaul's a goldfish.

That sort of self improvement requires effort he's just not capable of.
 
Ahaha, yup, there's the natural consequence of shoving Orange Light around. Increasing someone's desire isn't always a good thing.

Though Urisk's tale should be quite interesting.

You know, in retrospect, this does seem quite odd.

I'm surprised that OL hasn't shown any interest in furthering his own education regarding physics and more traditional fields of study, or even the more metaphysical, magical ones.

With his ring, he should have all manner of advantages in becoming a better student, and self improvement through furthering his education would categorically be a net win for him.

He does with some things- note how he learned to do what Lantern Medyphyll does- but it would take a while to do everything and he has a lot of pressing matters.
 
Tower Offence (part 16)
8th November 2012
12:03 GMT -5


Urisk looks understandably nervous to have me standing so close.

What do you say to someone whose arm you've cut off? 'Sorry' isn't right, as it would imply that I now think that it wasn't the correct thing to do. And I think it was the correct thing to do, as a compromise to just taking his assault or killing him. 'I regret the necessity' is honest, but a little inhuman. 'Are you alright' is a patently stupid thing to say to someone who has just lost their arms.

"There." The glow ceases and Urisk checks his range of movement. "I hope that you are feeling-."

"Ah."

Urisk's pupils expands as he cringes, backing up as much as he can while still staying close enough to Dr. Balewa that he could dive behind him if I attacked.

"No lasting damage, I hope?"

Urisk uncringes slightly then freezes, waiting to see what I'll do.

"If that's what you're worried about, I don't hold you responsible for what you-." I look around the crowd. "What any of you did while under the influence of the Anti-Life. If that's what you're worried about."

Alan looks at me expectantly.

"So I see no need to continue hostil-."

"Paul."

No, no, it's irrational, but it's basically just social lubricant and it might make him more willing to talk.

"I'm sorry."

"You apologise?"

"It's not like I-" I dismiss my construct armour and send my armour back into subspace. "-like cutting people's arms off."

And… They're short. So I sit down, affecting a pose of relaxation.

Urisk doesn't appear entirely sure what to make of that, but takes reassurance from Dr. Balewa's presence.

"What do you want to know, great wizard?"

"Our colleague, the one who looks like John Quinn. Where did he go?"

"John..? Quinn..?"

"He wears the golden helmet."

"The Master-Magician." Urisk shakes his head. "No. He arrived later. The one who called us here looked like the demon's false-face."

I blink in surprise. "John Constantine? John brought you here?"

"The Laughing Magician. He was in pain. The crystals helped him stay himself, he said. He asked us to tend his gardens for him."

"Did he force you to come here?"

"No. No. We were relieved. Happy. Modern houses are full of electronics." He wrinkles his nose. "We find them uncomfortable. This place is nice, and we all know how to garden."

"Did he pay you?"

He hesitates slightly, then shakes his head. "Our needs are met. Amongst our kind, status come from the place where we work. For us, having the run of a place like this in the service of a wizard of such power is reward in itself."

I glance at Dr. Balewa, who nods distractedly. Right, creatures of fae don't have the same drives as material humans. If having a nice and primitive place to live is what they want, I hope they're happy.

"Where did the vines come from?"

"He never said. He brought them here as crystal seeds, and we nurtured them."

"What did he..? Do with them? To keep himself himself?"

"He forced magic into them. Weakened himself, and collecting the magic infused crystal. He seemed happy when we got the largest gems. He said that he had plans for them. Then…" Urisk looks away from us, towards his huddled colleagues. "It is… I don't-."

Alan kneels down and puts his right hand on Urisks's left shoulder.

"He got you with the Anti-Life, didn't he?

"I don't know the name. The Laughing Magician went away for several days, then… The other one arrived. He looked similar; we took him for the Laughing Magician's brother."

"Did he look-. Or feel, demonic?"

"No. We felt demon magic on him a few times, but he was no demon. Later on, he started visiting with the golden helmet."

I nod. "John Quinn. Did you ever see him and the Laughing Magician together?"

"No."

Well that's… Quinn's story mostly out the window. If John didn't give him a tour…

"Did the Laughing Magician take any crystals with him?"

"Once the other one arrived, the Laughing Magician took no more crystals."

"You called Quinn 'the other one' there, and not 'The Master-Magician'. Was that intentional?"

"Yes. Since the Laughing Magician wasn't collecting crystals, we thought the other one might make us leave. Instead, he told us to expand. More of us came to the Tower of Fate then, and the gardens grew. He took some crystals for his work, and the rest we stored for him. Then…"

Alan nods. "I think we can guess. Somewhere he ran into the Anti-Life."

"We knew he had changed, but he was our host, and wizards can be strange in their ways. He took some crystals and experimented with them, and with the vines. And some other people were brought here."

"Those three?"

"Yes. And others."

Oh great. "Did he say their names?"

"No, but it sounded like they knew each other well. One of them… He felt like a hole in the universe. But… I think that by then we were affected as well."

"Do you have access to the rest of the Tower of Fate?"

"Yes, but that isn't our agreement. We tend the farms."

"He did Anti-Life you. And if the Laughing Magician brought you here and was defeated, shouldn't you help him rather than the interloper?"

"If the idea of fighting him offends you, simply lead us through the Tower and then leave. We will handle things from there."

"Alright." Urisk nods. "We can do that. You will free the Laughing Magician and we will stay here, without the Anti-Life. Follow me."
 
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8th November 2012
12:03 GMT -5


Urisk looks understandably nervous to have me standing so close.

What do you say to someone whose arm you've cut off? 'Sorry' isn't right, as it would imply that I now think that it wasn't the correct thing to do. And I think it was the correct thing to do, as a compromise to just taking his assault and killing him. 'I regret the necessity' is honest, but a little inhuman. 'Are you alright' is a patiently stupid thing to say to someone who has just lost their arms.
Yes, rather awkward. Hopefully they don't hold the deaths of the ones you diced back there against you, either. Honestly, standing in the background and trying not to talk might be the best option here, if only to avoid those hefty Diplomacy penalties you racked up. :rolleyes:

"There." The glow ceases and Urisk checks his range of movement. "I hope that you are feeling-."

"Ah."

Urisk's pupils expands as he cringes, backing up as much as he can while still staying close enough to Dr. Balewa that he could dive behind him if I attacked.
I swear, sometimes I think OL would have made one heck of a Yellow Lantern as much as he is a powerful Orange one. Ironic that the Renegade is so much better with Fear than Avarice at times...

"No lasting damage, I hope?"

Urisk uncringes slightly then freezes, waiting to see what I'll do.
Aw, geez, he's like a kicked puppy... :(

"If that's what you're worried about, I don't hold you responsible for what you-." I look around the crowd. "What any of you did while under the influence of the Anti-Life. If that's what you're worried about."

Alan looks at me expectantly.
Yeah, as disingenuous as you might find it, an apology might go down better than your calm rationality.

"So I see no need to continue hostil-."

"Paul."

No, no, it's irrational, but it's basically just social lubricant and it might make him more willing to talk.
Ah, Alan. Seeing just what needs to be said. The joy of a century of experience.

"I'm sorry."

"You apologise?"
Yes, yes, you get that he's not really sincere. Can we just move on? You have your hands back, OL is feeling a little regretful... ;) Call it even?

"It's not like I-" I dismiss my construct armour and send my armour back into subspace. "-like cutting people's arms off."

And… They're short. So I sit down, affecting a pose of relaxation.
Not the most reassuring thing, since as a Lantern (or a wizard, which they probably see you as) you don't need to stand to hurt them.

Urisk doesn't appear entirely sure what to make of that, but takes reassurance from Dr. Balewa's presence.

"What do you want to know, great wizard?"
Yeah, best to let the Doctor handle things, I think. No Diplomacy penalties for him.

"Our colleague, the one who looks like John Quinn. Where did he go?"

"John..? Quinn..?"

"He wears the golden helmet."
To be fair, he might never have taken the helmet off in their presence. Not likely, given how uncomfortable the ol' bucket-head could be, but still...

"The Master-Magician." Urisk shakes his head. "No. He arrived later. The one who called us here looked like the demon's false-face."

I blink in surprise. "John Constantine? John brought you here?"
That surprises you, OL? John's hardly above making use of people. The issue would be whether they were fairly compensated.

"The Laughing Magician. He was in pain. The crystals helped him stay himself, he said. He asked us to tend his gardens for him."

"Did he force you to come here?"
Hmm... So he used the crystals to... Drain off excess Chaos energies? Seriously, still betting this is actually part of the Gemworld... They were all for using magical crystals, after all.
Edit: Okay, Order energies actually makes more sense. Less under John's control, and fundamentally opposed to his naturally-chaotic mindset...

"No. No. We were relieved. Happy. Modern houses are full of electronics." He wrinkles his nose. "We find them uncomfortable. This place is nice, and we all know how to garden."

"Did he pay you?"
Heh. I bet they don't like modern appliances at all, huh? Wonder if it was an electromagnetic thing or just the noises they made, like a dog afraid of a vacuum cleaner?

He hesitates slightly, then shakes his head. "Our needs are met. Amongst our kind, status come from the place where we work. For us, having the run of a place like this in the service of a wizard of such power is reward in itself."

I glance at Dr. Balewa, who nods distractedly. Right, creatures of fae don't have the same drives as material humans. If having a nice and primitive place to live is what they want, I hope they're happy.
And they get to make themselves useful, which is probably a hard-wired drive, hence their mythical reputation for helping around the house.

"Where did the vines come from?"

"He never said. He brought them here as crystal seeds, and we nurtured them."
...Okay, maybe the vines are from the Gemworld, then. Whatever their origin, Constantine clearly knew what he was doing with them...

"What did he..? Do with them? To keep himself himself?"

"He forced magic into them. Weakened himself, and collecting the magic infused crystal. He seemed happy when we got the largest gems. He said that he had plans for them. Then…" Urisk looks away from us, towards his huddled colleagues. "It is… I don't-."
The question is then, what was he doing with the crystals after harvesting them? I doubt he'd keep them for himself, not if he was draining Chaos Order energy into them...

Alan kneels down and puts his right hand on Urisks's left shoulder.

"He got you with the Anti-Life, didn't he?
A fair assumption. But did John do it of his own accord, or did someone else use him?

"I don't know the name. The Laughing Magician went away for several days, then… The other one arrived. He looked similar; we took him for the Laughing Magician's brother."

"Did he look-. Or feel, demonic?"
Boy, not lessening the suspicion of Quinn being the Golden Boy any, huh?

"No. We felt demon magic on him a few times, but he was no demon. Later on, he started visiting with the golden helmet."

I nod. "John Quinn. Did you ever see him and the Laughing Magician together?"
Hmm... Still a good likelihood of the 'memory-fueled homunculus' theory the Demon put forward too.

"No."

Well that's… Quinn's story mostly out the window. If John didn't give him a tour…
I mean, that doesn't rule it out. Maybe he didn't feel the need to show this part off?

"Did the Laughing Magician take any crystals with him?"

"Once the other one arrived, the Laughing Magician took no more crystals."
At least that part of the timeline adds up.

"You called Quinn 'the other one' there, and not 'The Master-Magician'. Was that intentional?"

"Yes. Since the Laughing Magician wasn't collecting crystals, we thought the other one might make us leave. Instead, he told us to expand. More of us came to the Tower of Fate then, and the gardens grew. He took some crystals for his work, and the rest we stored for him. Then…"
Presumably following what Constantine started, for whatever reasons.

Alan nods. "I think we can guess. Somewhere he ran into the Anti-Life."

"We knew he had changed, but he was out host, and wizards can be strange in their ways. He took some crystals and experimented with them, and with the vines. And some other people were brought here."
Prisoners in the Tower, certainly. But were there any others...

"Those three?"

"Yes. And others."
Three down, at least three other prisoners we know of...

Oh great. "Did he say their names?"

"No, but it sounded like they knew each other well. One of them… He felt like a hole in the universe. But… I think that my then we were affected as well."
Which makes the 'hole in the universe' thing entirely suspect. Perhaps their arcane perception was heightened by the infection, or it was a fluke of imagination...

"Do you have access to the rest of the Tower of Fate?"

"Yes, but that isn't our agreement. We tend the farms."
Guessing to allow some to leave and lead more Brownies there, if workers were needed, or at least to alert the 'master' to issues.

"He did Anti-Life you. And if the Laughing Magician brought you here and was defeated, shouldn't you help him rather than the interloper?"

"If the idea of fighting him offends you, simply lead us through the Tower and then leave. We will handle things from there."

"Alright." Urisk nods. "We can do that. You will free the Laughing Magician and we will stay here, without the Anti-Life. Follow me."
Well, that's ultimately up to how all this ends up... Whoever ends up in charge of the Tower may not be interested in house-guests...

Well, that went... Some questions answered, but more added. The identities of some of the additional players may be easy to guess (the other prisoners Fate secured in the Tower, for a start) but there may well be more than them involved. And who knows what was removed from the main part of the Tower while all this has been going on. I'm honestly amazed one of the dark wizards hasn't gone on a rampage with something from the Tower's mystical arsenal yet...
 
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, Alan. Seeing just what needs to be said. The joy of a century of experience

Age has nothing to do with it.

Alan just isn't a dick with a stick up his ass like Paul is.

To be fair, he might never have taken the helmet off in their presence. Not likely, given how uncomfortable the ol' bucket-head could be, but still...

Who knows; maybe it was enchanted to be comfortable.

Hmm... So he used the crystals to... Drain off excess Chaos energies

I'm betting he'd drained the Order energies, since I doubt he'd do well with them.

Heh. I bet they don't like modern appliances at all, huh? Wonder if it was an electromagnetic thing or just the noises they made, like a dog afraid of a vacuum cleaner

Or they just don't like newfangled devices.

The question is then, what was he doing with the crystals after harvesting them? I doubt he'd keep them for himself, not if he was draining Chaos energy into them...

He could have used them to make Quinn; a being aligned with Order.

Or he may have been planning on keeping them around for the future in case he needed some extra power.

Prisoners in the Tower, certainly. But were there any others...

Yes.

Giovanni mentioned that Nabu fought a lot of threats, so the number of people or things that he imprisoned in the Tower is probably very, very big.

. I'm honestly amazed one of the dark wizards hasn't gone on a rampage with something from the Tower's mystical arsenal yet

Not if Quinn is keeping control over them.
 
So basically this whole thing is LePaul's fault for sticking two conflicting energies into John Constantine.
I don't think Paul wanted John to become a Lord of Order. Something happened in the fight with Nabu that caused him to usurp Nabu's Order as well.
 
Let me see if I follow:

John Constantine, newly appointed Lord of Chaos and owner of the Helmet of Fate feels like he's exploding apart.

Goes to the Tower of Fate, comes up with a Constantine scheme to manage, gets some weird crystal seeds for a magical plant and creates a garden for them.

Contacts/hires the brownies to tend to the garden while he pours his magical energy into the plants and crystals. Takes the crystals to conduct experiments of who-knows-what and, from the point of view of the brownies, disappears for a few days.

John Quinn appears in the garden, to the confusion of the brownies, and appears to have the run of the place, later on even appearing with the Helmet of Fate, orders/manages the expansion of the garden and hires more brownies for it.

He only takes a few crystals, but the brownies feel a change in him at some point, they even feel demon magic on him at times, and after just experimenting with the crystals and plants for a bit the Anti-Life infection appears in the garden.

Other individuals appear as well after that, including our three present evil sorcerers, previously imprisoned under sole supervision of Nabu. Other possible prisoners are unaccounted for, and of the other individuals that appeared one is a "hole in the universe" or feels like it.

After that, I would expect the Anti-Life justified the brownies and the aforementioned evil sorcerers so who knows what happened, but Quinn has still interacted with people while conducting the Anti-Life experiment in secret.

Did I get all of these right or does somebody have a different reading of what the brownie described?
 
I don't understand why John obsessed over managing the Helmet when it was tearing him apart. With the helmet in a different room, John was just a Lord of Chaos. Following Paul's advice, he tried to become a Lord of Balance as a Lord of Chaos wearing the Helmet. So… why didn't John just give up on the task? John gives up on other stuff (civilians, explaining magic…) all the time.
 
You know, I think I figured one of the things that was hitting me odd from these chapters, even if I enjoy the magical adventures taking place right now.

From a narrative standpoint, it does feel like Anti-Life is being treated fairly casually. I mean, in most conditions, Anti-Life being an actual thing implies Crisis level shit. It's Endgame level.

It's one of the greatest tools of the Old God Yuga Khan. It's something that Darkseid, a New God with power spanning entire universes finds so desirable and so potent that one of his most fundamental drives is to discover the equation, given most of the time he either doesn't have any of it, or simply a fragment.

Some interpretations even have it as the equal and opposite of the Source. The shadow to its proverbial light.

So yeah. Knowing just how utterly insane Anti-Life is, and seeing it be dealt with and discussed fairly casually, even if only a fragment of a fragment of its power feels a bit odd.
 
I don't understand why John obsessed over managing the Helmet when it was tearing him apart. With the helmet in a different room, John was just a Lord of Chaos. Following Paul's advice, he tried to become a Lord of Balance as a Lord of Chaos wearing the Helmet. So… why didn't John just give up on the task? John gives up on other stuff (civilians, explaining magic…) all the time.

John may have still remained a Lord of Order even if he lacked the Helmet, so that's why he used the crystals .
 
You know, I think I figured one of the things that was hitting me odd from these chapters, even if I enjoy the magical adventures taking place right now.

From a narrative standpoint, it does feel like Anti-Life is being treated fairly casually. I mean, in most conditions, Anti-Life being an actual thing implies Crisis level shit. It's Endgame level.

It's one of the greatest tools of the Old God Yuga Khan. It's something that Darkseid, a New God with power spanning entire universes finds so desirable and so potent that one of his most fundamental drives is to discover the equation, given most of the time he either doesn't have any of it, or simply a fragment.

Some interpretations even have it as the equal and opposite of the Source. The shadow to its proverbial light.

So yeah. Knowing just how utterly insane Anti-Life is, and seeing it be dealt with and discussed fairly casually, even if only a fragment of a fragment of its power feels a bit odd.

Anti-Life lives at the power of plot. Sometimes it's an impossible to resist memetic kill-agent for the individuality and will of the person exposed even when not complete, other times otherwise normal people can resist the full equation it through an effort of will, and all the time it's only an issue for the heroes if the author needs them to lose so Darksied looks like less of a dumbass. Supposedly makes it more impactful when people in magic pajamas and sci-fi bikinis kick his teeth in for the third time this year.

It's also only sort-of caused a Crisis once IIRC, and even then it was just a tool Darksied used to help him cause it, not the cause itself.

And within the context of WTR The Great Darkness would be more likely to be the opposite of The Source than Anti-Life given the implications that The Presence, or at least whatever is its stand-in, is largely in control of The Source.
 
Okay this is better than I feared- sounds like OG John set up the farm to let him bleed off excess power, presumably order power because crystals, and at some point he created Quinn, who took over. He didn't need to bleed off power so he didn't take the crystals, and eventually got contaminated with anti life, as did the brownies, and the wizards, who he then put to work on the farm as well, doing something with anti life.

The real question is, was Quinn trying to fight the anti-life, he did have the brownies in a trance that dulled its effects, maybe the whole farm was converted so he could siphon of anti life with the order magic in the crystals working to isolate it. In that case its just a typical constantine plot to deal with the consequences of his own action, and Quin has just underestimated the Anti Life fragment.

Then there is the question about how affected by anti life quin is, it if has been a while since it happened presumably he has come into contact with Paul or Belawa who should sense it, so he is irresponsibly hiding it, but also not spreading it everywhere. So is it controling him and he is hiding it, or is he making like the idiots in a zombie film who got bit and hid it?

In any case the whole "constantine split like a starfish again and the split has him trapped to use as a powersource or something" thing that Demon Constatine sold the heroes on looks more and more true, with the added layer of Quin somehow getting involved in a worse mess than OG constantine ever did, and hiding it.
 
I don't understand why John obsessed over managing the Helmet when it was tearing him apart. With the helmet in a different room, John was just a Lord of Chaos. Following Paul's advice, he tried to become a Lord of Balance as a Lord of Chaos wearing the Helmet. So… why didn't John just give up on the task? John gives up on other stuff (civilians, explaining magic…) all the time.

Well Constantine being a self destructive dumbass is in character.

And the speculation that he may have intenalized the power might be true, although from what I remember the ritual that Constantine used to usurp Klarion's position was specifically said to require the Lord taking a second familiar which Nabu never did, so if he did manage to do it in another way, then he managed to be a self destructive dumbass in a new and inventive way.
 
"Did he pay you?"

He hesitates slightly, then shakes his head. "Our needs are met. Amongst our kind, status come from the place where we work. For us, having the run of a place like this in the service of a wizard of such power is reward in itself."

I glance at Dr. Balewa, who nods distractedly. Right, creatures of fae don't have the same drives as material humans. If having a nice and primitive place to live is what they want, I hope they're happy.
Yeah! Take that Hermione! Leave what you don't understand, alone.
 

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