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I was going to say "or becoming the avatar", but that kinda is spirit shenanigans, isn't it?They don't have the concept of alternate universes or aliens. So a mysterious being who hasn't aged since the last time they saw them, which was decades ago, and claims to serve a spirit would get them to think this is spirit shenanigans.
Ok, I will need a straight forward explanation of what that fuck is going on, because I'm more lost than a psychopath's sense of empathy!
"They were doing that before sir. This is something new."
Wait if this Constantine hasn't seen Paul&Co since the Dreaming why would he think Paul and Quinn were friends? At that point they were already on the Quinn's untrustworthy plan. The fact that so many Constantine's exist means they all came together and made a plan not even they can follow?
Ok, I will need a straight forward explanation of what that fuck is going on, because I'm more lost than a psychopath's sense of empathy!
We saw The Demon's perspective in the Baghdad of the Dreams, no? But this one says he hasn't seen the Illustres since the clusterfuck in Azerbaijan? When he was captured and the Speedster enemy of Jay showed up as a demon. So, was the perspective in the Baghdad of the Dreams real? What about the perspective we saw of The Demon calling on Chantinelle? I assumed that was after he escaped from Belle Reve. And The Demon that was with them was captured tried to reestablish a relationship with that Irish woman, right? And the Seal of Solomon supposedly worked on him and Dr. Mist said it worked and he could track it or some shit.
This is some screwy bullshit I tell you. All this could be explained if this new Demon is lying or there always were two Demon Constantines. But if those options are not the right ones, then I'm so hilariously confused.
Let's seeokay, what even going on anymore
how many Constantine clone is there
What is the true reason the Tower of Fate was moved adjacent to the Dream
So new theory, Quinn might have taken Demon Constantine from Bell Reave for some unspecified reason and now Quinn or someone else has been impersonating Demon Constantine since we've seen Demon Constantine's pov during this trip we can assume this person truly thinks their Demon Constantine. Fuck this is complicated maybe if Paul talks to new love elemental Chantelle she can maybe clear this up. Knowing Constantine there is also the possibility that he altered her memory or locked her in a closet somewhere and threw away the key.Wrong palace, I don't remember the names, but I do remember Paul just wrapping John up in magic suppression chains and arresting him. The "demon" constantine we have been following in this arc claimed to have escaped via a little magic con, that he later used when Paul and Alan were in that evil america dimension, and we saw it from his point of view... He might not realize he isn't the original demon constantine, or he is someone pulling a long con and very convincing disguise, considering demon sealing magic from the dream city was able to work on him.
So He is either Quinn, Original John or a unknown 4th john- Whichever one he is, he may have been useing the who Aspects and Incarnations thing that he mentioned early on to convincingly imitate Demon Constantine, depending on his goal, he could be trying to knab the power of all the johns or save Quinn from the Anti Life, or Save a version of John from Quin.
I will Laugh if Orginal John managed to avoid all this trouble and its only his spinnoffs making trouble for each other- it would be like the Rick and Morty episode with the decoys, the original was never in the area to be affected.
Okay basically at some point Demon John got moved to the Tower and everyone thought he just escaped belle reve. The "Demon" we have been following this arc mentioned using magic based around aspects and incarnations to become more like OG John- He must have used something like that to imitate Demon John, but that means we don't know if he is Quin OG John or another version we are unfamiliar with etc.
Quin has had some missadventure with Anti Life, and hasn't told anyone, but its looking more like maybe he is wrapped up in some Constantine chaos that either kept him from sharing the intel or he just was trying to keep those secrets save too.
Basically there is at least one person running around doing a convincing impression of Demon Constantine and he needed into the tower of Fate... You know for simplicity's sake I hope it is one of the Johns, new or old, and not someone managing to mantle aspects of John who isn't him, because thats just asking for him to be overwritten with John's Johness and thats another can of worms we don't need at this point.
Was that the party member from the tutorial that was unkillable because some munchkin abandoned the tutorial with him, considering an immortal lackey would be better rewards than whatever completing the tutorials actual rewards would be?
Wait if this Constantine hasn't seen Paul&Co since the Dreaming why would he think Paul and Quinn were friends? At that point they were already on the Quinn's untrustworthy plan. The fact that so many Constantine's exist means they all came together and made a plan not even they can follow?
Ok, I will need a straight forward explanation of what that fuck is going on, because I'm more lost than a psychopath's sense of empathy!
We saw The Demon's perspective in the Baghdad of the Dreams, no? But this one says he hasn't seen the Illustres since the clusterfuck in Azerbaijan? When he was captured and the Speedster enemy of Jay showed up as a demon. So, was the perspective in the Baghdad of the Dreams real? What about the perspective we saw of The Demon calling on Chantinelle? I assumed that was after he escaped from Belle Reve. And The Demon that was with them was captured tried to reestablish a relationship with that Irish woman, right? And the Seal of Solomon supposedly worked on him and Dr. Mist said it worked and he could track it or some shit.
This is some screwy bullshit I tell you. All this could be explained if this new Demon is lying or there always were two Demon Constantines. But if those options are not the right ones, then I'm so hilariously confused.
Was that the party member from the tutorial that was unkillable because some munchkin abandoned the tutorial with him, considering an immortal lackey would be better rewards than whatever completing the tutorials actual rewards would be?
...all for the low low price of said lackey occasionally/constantly bringing up his dropped quest line.
I believe the official Vertigo/DC Tarot has John as the Fool, actually . Plus the Tarot Archetype in the first Vertigo comics resembles John (or the other way around) too. Not sure who the Hanged Man was in the official Vertigo deck.
"where" to "were"
What I don't understand is why didn't Quinn come clean immediately and say "I'm an artificial John, John created to be a lord of order."
So there should be 4 Constantines right now, I believe? Original John, Demon Constantine, Golden Boy, the latter two being used as magical foci to split Original John into Quinn and the second Demon. Though I think I'm getting the sequence of events wrong (4 John Constantines, anyway, we also have his sister, Morgana's daughter, Gemma and John's long-lost nephew, though I don't know if 2 people can be the Laughing Magician at the same time or anything).
I... think... we're at five of him. Two demons, Golden Boy, John Quinn, and a yet as seen chaos version. Unless Golden Boy or the other demon are the chaos version. Then it's four.
Blaming someone else for your shitty life decisions yep he's John."John Constantine, the Hanged Man. You gave me more power than he could bear. Parts of him could cope with the power of Chaos, and parts could cope with the power of Order. But his whole self couldn't cope with both together."
There would be at least four at this point, maybe more, depending on how actively Original Recipe Constantine has been carving chunks off himself. And doesn't that sound like such a Constantine plan? Chop off all the bits that aren't working right and shove them into a homunculus of yourself and see what's left...8th November 2012
12:21 GMT -5
"Buggered if I know. One moment I'm staring at the wall in Belle Reve, the next I'm being strung up here by John."
I wince. "Given the number of people who could reasonably lay claim to the name 'John' that we're dealing with, could you please specify-?"
Ah, right, he's a bit behind the times, isn't he? Had Quinn been active as Fate before the Azerbijan thing?
Or someone else entirely with the same face. It seems to be something of a fad right now."What d'you mean 'confirm it was him'? You think I can't recognise-."
"John Quinn looks like a John Constantine who didn't smoke and takes regular exercise. And there was someone claiming to be you who looked a little less rotten but could change his shape. So did you confirm it was John Constantine, or could it have been either of them?"
Honestly, if you knew what he was doing, it'd probably be something you'd feel obliged to stop. Which is probably why he hasn't been in touch...The Demon looks away a little. "What the hell has he been doing?"
"If I knew that, I-."
Or so he believes, anyway. They did check that the Demon's cell is empty, right?"The other me. Where did he come from?"
"He escaped from Belle Reve."
Ah, good, so that part was true. Given how much other stuff we can't trust right now...Alan lifts Dr. Balewa up to us. Dr. Balewa blinks for a moment, then frowns.
"He used a blood marker as a resurrection point after inducing the wards in Belle Reve to kill him."
Fellah's been getting around, hasn't he? Did you think what he did with you was special?The Demon hesitates for a moment, watching us. Then he gives up, snarling.
"I made that marker! The only way someone else could use it is if they were so close to being me-. Or John made another me."
Unless Original John is a masochist (and I would not be surprised) a copy of him probably wouldn't be..."Could he do that?"
"Why not? Morals weren't gunna stop him, where they? Maybe get a shield-soul who actually likes the pain, and-."
...Okay, guess he is. Why does this suddenly explain some things about him?"No. If there were another soul present, I would hev felt it."
"John Constantine isn't exactly a stranger to pain."
Oh, yeah, Sandy's still down below, isn't he? Joy of being the only non-flier (Well, the Doctor is being carried, but...)"That's not enough. It's Hell. You can't just tough it-"
"Hey, fellahs! Could one of you take a look at this?!"
And there's the bizarre arcane topography again."-out."
"Excuse me." I float around the wheel and then fly down towards the sound of Sanderson's voice. He's below where we came in, and-. Upside down, standing on the-.
That can't be accidental. I'm betting it's got something to do with this whole setup.Wha-?
My orientation just changed. Even wearing my ring, down is now where 'up' was.
I'm guessing that's the linch-pin of the whole shebang. Best not to go tossing any wooden shoes in there, though... Not until you know what it does."Sandman?"
He raises his right hand, pointing towards-. A glass container, filled with what looks like a miniature dream storm. Glass pipes run off it, eldritch sigils carved lightly into the exterior. Here there are-.
Fractals, mate. Chaos and Order in harmony."Doctor Mist! I think I've found Chaos crystals!"
Not a lot of them. There are still more of the golden Order crystals, keeping the whole of the machinery nice and orderly. The sparkly red Chaos crystals should be a discordant element, but… This isn't like any thaumaturgical work I've seen before, but based on the general structure they're… Incorporated. Somehow.
Besides make for the world's most complicated hookah? ...What, you're gonna say John wouldn't try and smoke some of Dream's sand if he could?"This is dream sand, isn't it?" He's looking at another, smaller, glass container. "He got this when you freed me. He's been studying it. Working with it."
"Right, but-." I float back, trying to make sense of the gerbil run of glassware. "What does this do?"
And now I'm picturing a giant hour-glass-shaped machine... Made of kirby-tech."I think-?" Sanderson runs his gloved right hand along one of the sand tubes. "I think it-. Can you fly me down? I mean, up?"
I create a platform for him and he gets on. Okay, the shaft goes that way, the glass tubes appear to gather up there… Ring scan shows some sort of compartment that way, maybe. May as well try it.
Maybe there's some sort of seventh sense involved? A kind of intuition? If nothing else, something to help make the visions make more sense. Like the ability to see names of people involved, that sort of thing..."Yeah… That way."
Sanderson is looking up and trying to make sense of things. I'm not sure whether or not Morpheus's gift comes with enhanced senses, but-. Okay, is that some kind of filter? And…
Well, that sounds like heavier restraints than what the Demon got. Evidently, whatever's in there has a lot more mystical oomph.And a large glass-walled booth? Dream storm stuff and dream sand is being… Funnelled into it, obscuring the contents.
"There's…" Sanderson steps of my platform and onto the support struts holding up the booth. "Someone… In there."
Well, at least they can talk. Maybe they know what the fuck's going on...
Oooh, boy. There's Constantine number five. And I think the universe has blown its vocal cords out, so it's now [Screaming Internally]...The stuff inside the booth coalesces into… What is-?
Okay, it's an older John, white hair with a receding hairline and generally looking worn down.
And probably sounds a lot more like one of the Beatles than Sting."But I fear that you might."
John's original Liverpudlian accent has been worn down by decades of living in London. This man splits the difference between Liverpudlian and Received Pronunciation, and despite his haggard physical appearance his eyes are razor-focused.
...Well, shit. So this hasn't been a Golden Boy plot. He's been locked up the whole time, it seems."Whom do I have the pleasure of addressing?"
"In our youth, John called me The Golden Boy. As I called him The Sickly Boy."
Hey, he's good, but he's no miracle-worker..."I've.. heard of you. I thought that the two of you merged together."
"We did. And given that you know that, perhaps you have some idea what this contrivance is for."
Which probably explains the Dream Sand. Without the physical anchor of John's body and soul, he's little more than a dream now..."Pulling you… Out? I half-thought that John Quinn was you."
"A weak attempt at misdirection. In my history-that-never-was, I carried the weight of the world on my shoulders. It was not a light burden."
...So, this whole thing is a... What, a gyroscope, keeping the Constantines balanced and stable?"So who is John Quinn. And who is the Second Demon Constantine-. You know about the first one?"
He nods sombrely. "We were already merged when we had that stroke of brilliance. I take it that he's down below us as a counterweight?"
That means he pulled himself apart until he had something that could handle each bit? Huh, my guess in the introduction was closer than I thought."Yes."
"John Constantine, the Hanged Man. You gave me more power than he could bear. Parts of him could cope with the power of Chaos, and parts could cope with the power of Order. But his whole self couldn't cope with both together."
...And Quinn got all the Order bits? So where's the Chaos part?"He used you and the Demon to offload it?"
"No. That wouldn't have worked, but it would have been far less dangerous. Instead, he used us to split himself in two."
Ah, right, he's a bit behind the times, isn't he? Had Quinn been active as Fate before the Azerbijan thing?