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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)
- Thread starter Mr Zoat
- Start date
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- self insert young justice
PrinceJonathan
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Why would you want to do it a second time? Was the first time such a blast you just had to do it again?
Mquz
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I guess if you do a bang up job the first time you wouldn't need to, but what if your effort explodes in your face and you don't manage to blast anything with the first blow.
Angelic (part 20)
Mr Zoat
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28th January
13:43 GMT -5
"So…"
Linda/Noriel sits across from me in the interview room. She's not completely unresponsive, but she isn't looking at me. Her hair is currently blonde, but her facial structure isn't exactly that of either Linda or Noriel.
"We caught Buzz, and he will be facing charges of some kind. Valeria got away, but we've destroyed or acquired all of her assets in Virginia. All the members of Buzz's cult whom we've identified are now in custody."
"What do you want me to say?"
"I don't know." I sit back. "Given what Buzz has done to your mind, we can't charge you with anything. How about..? We start with a name."
"I am not Noriel."
"True."
"I remember flying through the towers of the Silver City. I remember hearing all of Creation come into being as a harmonious crescendo. I remember the very first exothermic reaction. I remember the sacred joy of it all, and now I feel… Nothing."
"I'm-."
No. No. Now is not the time to question the validity of the beliefs of the angels. She's having a hard enough time of it without me kicking metaphorical sand in her face.
"And… What about Linda Danvers?"
"She is.. why I feel nothing. Every.. time that I remember something, I remember it as filtered through her. Her contemptuous bile.. taints… Every thought and action."
"Extra-tainted because she was a fairly hateful person, or just normal human not-being-an-angel levels of taint?"
She looks up very slightly, her eyes meeting mine.
"Do not make light of this."
"I'm not making light of it. I know that -to an angel- the normal human way of thinking about things is… Repulsive. But all I know of Noriel is her participation in Asmodel's putsch and her attempt to kill me, so… Those memories? I'm sceptical of their value. I don't think her existence was anything like as good as you appear to be implying that you do. Frankly, I'd say that not being either Noriel or Linda is a positive thing."
Her head comes up. "What would you know of it?"
"I went to Hell disguised as a demon once. Satanus set a trap for me which infused me with demonic magic until I effectively became a demon. It altered the way I thought about a lot of stuff." I shrug. "Didn't bother me at the time, because that then was how I thought about things. Hasn't really bothered me since…" I hesitate. "Except some things I said to my girlfriend, which were true for demon-me but not for normal-me, and for which I promptly apologised." Hm. "Do you believe yourself to be Noriel?"
"Factually, I am not."
"People often believe things that they can't prove with evidence. I've got a pile of hate-mail concerning some of the patently untrue things people believe about angels. Some people honestly believe the world to be flat, that fossils were made by the First of the Fallen to lure people away from the truth of Genesis… I knew a girl who honestly believed that leaving food in a tin in the fridge would cause it to become poisonous." I shrug. "If you want to be mostly-Noriel, that's fine. Treat Linda's perspective as an exposure to human vice you couldn't have gotten any other way and work to overcome it just as your kind encourage humans to overcome their vices. If you want to be mostly-Linda but with an added awareness of the wonders that the universe contains, that good and honest people do exist, that's fine too. Or if you want to forget them both and live your own life… Well, I'd encourage that."
"Neither Noriel nor Linda were good at handling doubt."
"Most people aren't. I didn't used to be."
"How did you learn?"
"Ironically, communion with a spirit greater than my own. But given that you as you have been alive for less than an hour, it would be unreasonable to expect you to make any radical decisions about your fundamental nature quite this quickly."
She turns her head, taking in the various parts of the room. "What is to happen next?"
"We'd like you to give a full deposition on Linda's activities. I personally would quite like one on Noriel's activities as well, so I have something to send to the angel fanzealots when they next accuse me of lying about what happened in the Silver City, but we're in America so I have to tell you that you aren't obliged to bear witness against yourself."
"It would not precisely be bearing witness against myself."
"American law hasn't yet had to adapt to permanent mental overwrites. But if you don't mind?"
"I have Noriel's perspective on her crimes. What would you have me tell you?"
"What was with the Superman costume?"
"I believe that at some point she intended to attempt to implicate Kara Zor-El in her crimes."
"Why? I mean, for a start, Kara can't create flames. And she's never been to Virginia. And she actually doesn't like using her exotic abilities."
"In reality, Linda knew nothing of her. In her head, she had already decided that she already knew everything that she needed to. Kara Zor-El was new to the Earth, but already had the interest of the entire world. She had the affection of the world's most powerful superhero-"
I cough quietly. Though I suppose that Kara and I do have a friendly relationship.
"-and a well paid job despite not having any Earth qualifications."
"And she was hurting herself with a radioactive rock because she wants to deny that any of it is happening because everyone she knew and loved died when Krypton exploded."
"As I said, Linda knew nothing of the real her. To her, it seemed entirely believable that someone in her position might give form to their vices out of the limelight. She also role-played as Kara during her lewd encounters with Buzz."
Yes, I suppose that would be one of her kinks.
"I can detail-."
"I don't need to know exactly what she and Buzz got-."
"No, not-. Not that. Their crimes. I am happy to put everything in writing… Though my memory is fallible."
"Thank you." I take a pad of paper out of subspace, along with a pen. "But -aside from that- what do you want to do?"
"Live a good life, die without committing suicide and… Not return to the Silver City, but go there."
"You are-."
I'd like to try to sell her on the other options she has as a human. Or point out that humans who go to the Silver City aren't supposed to stay there. But this isn't the time, and I doubt that my credibility with her is all that great.
"I meant in the short term. Where do you want to live? What do you wish to do with regard to employment?"
"I assume that I still have Linda's apartment. I still have her skills as a sculptor, though my inspiration comes from a less ghoulish source."
"But you also have Noriel's understanding of fire magic. Don't you?"
"Yes."
"Because I know some people who would consider that highly valuable. And since I imagine that Noriel used theurgy for just about everything, you might.. like doing something that neither of them did for a while. While you settle into… You know, existing."
"That is an.. interesting offer. Though I am a little suspicious. You have no fondness for either of my… Component parts."
"Because… Without wishing to sound hackneyed, we're all more than a sum of our parts. And I barely know the sum of you at all. How about it?"
13:43 GMT -5
"So…"
Linda/Noriel sits across from me in the interview room. She's not completely unresponsive, but she isn't looking at me. Her hair is currently blonde, but her facial structure isn't exactly that of either Linda or Noriel.
"We caught Buzz, and he will be facing charges of some kind. Valeria got away, but we've destroyed or acquired all of her assets in Virginia. All the members of Buzz's cult whom we've identified are now in custody."
"What do you want me to say?"
"I don't know." I sit back. "Given what Buzz has done to your mind, we can't charge you with anything. How about..? We start with a name."
"I am not Noriel."
"True."
"I remember flying through the towers of the Silver City. I remember hearing all of Creation come into being as a harmonious crescendo. I remember the very first exothermic reaction. I remember the sacred joy of it all, and now I feel… Nothing."
"I'm-."
No. No. Now is not the time to question the validity of the beliefs of the angels. She's having a hard enough time of it without me kicking metaphorical sand in her face.
"And… What about Linda Danvers?"
"She is.. why I feel nothing. Every.. time that I remember something, I remember it as filtered through her. Her contemptuous bile.. taints… Every thought and action."
"Extra-tainted because she was a fairly hateful person, or just normal human not-being-an-angel levels of taint?"
She looks up very slightly, her eyes meeting mine.
"Do not make light of this."
"I'm not making light of it. I know that -to an angel- the normal human way of thinking about things is… Repulsive. But all I know of Noriel is her participation in Asmodel's putsch and her attempt to kill me, so… Those memories? I'm sceptical of their value. I don't think her existence was anything like as good as you appear to be implying that you do. Frankly, I'd say that not being either Noriel or Linda is a positive thing."
Her head comes up. "What would you know of it?"
"I went to Hell disguised as a demon once. Satanus set a trap for me which infused me with demonic magic until I effectively became a demon. It altered the way I thought about a lot of stuff." I shrug. "Didn't bother me at the time, because that then was how I thought about things. Hasn't really bothered me since…" I hesitate. "Except some things I said to my girlfriend, which were true for demon-me but not for normal-me, and for which I promptly apologised." Hm. "Do you believe yourself to be Noriel?"
"Factually, I am not."
"People often believe things that they can't prove with evidence. I've got a pile of hate-mail concerning some of the patently untrue things people believe about angels. Some people honestly believe the world to be flat, that fossils were made by the First of the Fallen to lure people away from the truth of Genesis… I knew a girl who honestly believed that leaving food in a tin in the fridge would cause it to become poisonous." I shrug. "If you want to be mostly-Noriel, that's fine. Treat Linda's perspective as an exposure to human vice you couldn't have gotten any other way and work to overcome it just as your kind encourage humans to overcome their vices. If you want to be mostly-Linda but with an added awareness of the wonders that the universe contains, that good and honest people do exist, that's fine too. Or if you want to forget them both and live your own life… Well, I'd encourage that."
"Neither Noriel nor Linda were good at handling doubt."
"Most people aren't. I didn't used to be."
"How did you learn?"
"Ironically, communion with a spirit greater than my own. But given that you as you have been alive for less than an hour, it would be unreasonable to expect you to make any radical decisions about your fundamental nature quite this quickly."
She turns her head, taking in the various parts of the room. "What is to happen next?"
"We'd like you to give a full deposition on Linda's activities. I personally would quite like one on Noriel's activities as well, so I have something to send to the angel fanzealots when they next accuse me of lying about what happened in the Silver City, but we're in America so I have to tell you that you aren't obliged to bear witness against yourself."
"It would not precisely be bearing witness against myself."
"American law hasn't yet had to adapt to permanent mental overwrites. But if you don't mind?"
"I have Noriel's perspective on her crimes. What would you have me tell you?"
"What was with the Superman costume?"
"I believe that at some point she intended to attempt to implicate Kara Zor-El in her crimes."
"Why? I mean, for a start, Kara can't create flames. And she's never been to Virginia. And she actually doesn't like using her exotic abilities."
"In reality, Linda knew nothing of her. In her head, she had already decided that she already knew everything that she needed to. Kara Zor-El was new to the Earth, but already had the interest of the entire world. She had the affection of the world's most powerful superhero-"
I cough quietly. Though I suppose that Kara and I do have a friendly relationship.
"-and a well paid job despite not having any Earth qualifications."
"And she was hurting herself with a radioactive rock because she wants to deny that any of it is happening because everyone she knew and loved died when Krypton exploded."
"As I said, Linda knew nothing of the real her. To her, it seemed entirely believable that someone in her position might give form to their vices out of the limelight. She also role-played as Kara during her lewd encounters with Buzz."
Yes, I suppose that would be one of her kinks.
"I can detail-."
"I don't need to know exactly what she and Buzz got-."
"No, not-. Not that. Their crimes. I am happy to put everything in writing… Though my memory is fallible."
"Thank you." I take a pad of paper out of subspace, along with a pen. "But -aside from that- what do you want to do?"
"Live a good life, die without committing suicide and… Not return to the Silver City, but go there."
"You are-."
I'd like to try to sell her on the other options she has as a human. Or point out that humans who go to the Silver City aren't supposed to stay there. But this isn't the time, and I doubt that my credibility with her is all that great.
"I meant in the short term. Where do you want to live? What do you wish to do with regard to employment?"
"I assume that I still have Linda's apartment. I still have her skills as a sculptor, though my inspiration comes from a less ghoulish source."
"But you also have Noriel's understanding of fire magic. Don't you?"
"Yes."
"Because I know some people who would consider that highly valuable. And since I imagine that Noriel used theurgy for just about everything, you might.. like doing something that neither of them did for a while. While you settle into… You know, existing."
"That is an.. interesting offer. Though I am a little suspicious. You have no fondness for either of my… Component parts."
"Because… Without wishing to sound hackneyed, we're all more than a sum of our parts. And I barely know the sum of you at all. How about it?"
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doug89
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Is Linda/Noriel talking about OL or Kal-El? It would be amusing if she corrected him and he had to suppress a lecture on why he was the most powerful.
Buggy123
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Wow, that's really nice and reassuring of OL, helping someone who's been substantially mentally altered figure out what they are now. And some more interesting info about Angels/the Silver City.
Also, this talk made me think about how it's lucky that they're both female, otherwise we'd end up having to move forums again.
I think Linda means Kal-El, and OL is snorting because while he knows that that's what she means, he thinks that he's actually the most powerful superhero.
Though, I'd say that he's justified in that belief. He's a extremely skilled Lantern on good relations with a emotional embodiment, after all.
Also, this talk made me think about how it's lucky that they're both female, otherwise we'd end up having to move forums again.
I think Linda means Kal-El, and OL is snorting because while he knows that that's what she means, he thinks that he's actually the most powerful superhero.
Though, I'd say that he's justified in that belief. He's a extremely skilled Lantern on good relations with a emotional embodiment, after all.
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doug89
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She could become an author. Her memoirs about the Silver City would probably be one of the best selling books of all time.
RichardWhereat
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I, for one, would love to read that lecture.
doug89
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Could you guess what I would like to read Richard?
gustyeagle
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So, she almost certainly means Kal-El, but world's most powerful superhero is definitely not Kal-El. OL, while also probably not the most powerful superhero, is closer than Superman.
RichardWhereat
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Or, she'd get a fatwa against her, and death threats from other denominations.
RichardWhereat
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The next chapter of mechanic of ottery, or the generic australian jumpchain?
Chojin Patriarch
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She's not taking the news well, it seems.
And it might well provoke a bad reaction. The kind that ends with buildings on fire...
That second-last sentence is a little confusing. Is he saying, she thinks Noriel was better than she actually was or what?
Treat Linda's perspective as an exposure to human vice...
And i don't recommend OL's method. Marinating in the universe's Avarice while sorting through your own desires is not for everyone.
Not that the fanzealots would accept that what she says is true...
Yes, good opener.
So, Kara's existence on earth is public knowledge?
Just like any celebrity. People get their own image of a person, and are then shocked when the real person isn't anything like it.
She wasn't talking about you, OL. Ego much?
Seriously, is Kara seeing anyone about that PTSD? Even Guy Gardner would suffice!
Whoa, now, just because this is QQ-..!
Ah. Never mind then...
I'd like to try to sell her on the other options she has as a human.
Huh, I could imagine the angelic inspiration. Super-beautiful, androgynous, ethereal characters... Or eldritch horrors. There's a reason Angels say "Fear not!" when they show themselves!
And, say, if you decide to take the super-hero path, well... I know a guy...
Such a nice guy, OL.
So, another episode ends, and two new supporting characters (Match and Linda/Noriel/whatever she decides on) to hear about off-screen adventures of. And both of them useful as counterparts to existing Team members.
Perhaps we might see a Wonder Boy and Super Boy duo, or Supergirl and Power girl!
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Mr Zoat
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Thank you, corrected.
doug89
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One day a bad guy needs to abuse Paul's tendency to long-windedly educate and correct people. Use it to stall or distract him.
Ngamer11
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He's learned from Truggs that if you're going to monologue, make sure you can't be interrupted.
This was an interesting conversation. Exactly how much does the public know about Kara? Did she get interviewed by Lois or something? Mr Zoat, how will the amalgamated woman like to be addressed, Linda or Noriel? If she and Match do end up being superheroes, do you already have codenames for them, or will they just be Match and Supergirl?
Prince Charon
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Why not both? There is precedent for something a lot like that.
... and then find out that Paul's lecture was a distraction, because Paul's friends also know him.
Vaermina
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I mean... You could try... But she's actually right about this...
That's because it does... Which is why you need to get rid of food when it spoils...
She knows more then you about this subject Paul...
DrThoth
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Is Linda always this abrasive in the comics, and if so how does she become more heroic? The influence of Matrix?
It seems like they're just leaving her stuck in Matrix mode, which regardless of Linda's personality, doesn't seem very ethical- even Paragon wouldn't consider that acceptable in my opinion; a time-share or extracting the new consciousness and placing it into a golem body seem like better courses of action. Unless I'm misunderstanding the mechanics and the fusion is all there is now.
I hope they get Zauriel or perhaps Father Matthias to help comfort and deal with her; the former has a mission related to learning about humanity, I believe, and the latter should have access to Church resources and is a decent man, of ignorant of the details of angelic activity. I wonder if Zauriel has met the leaders of Abrahamic faiths off-screen.
Regarding the angelic account of Creation conflicting with Paragon's more Maltusian perspective, I personally prefer the explanation of faith-powered retroactive reality warping, which seems feasible with the Source involved, as well as events with the Dreaming showing it's possible to rewrite reality/history through dreams and beliefs. A multiple-choice past of the universe- also including creation accounts in non-Abrahamic faiths- can thus be viable.
It seems like they're just leaving her stuck in Matrix mode, which regardless of Linda's personality, doesn't seem very ethical- even Paragon wouldn't consider that acceptable in my opinion; a time-share or extracting the new consciousness and placing it into a golem body seem like better courses of action. Unless I'm misunderstanding the mechanics and the fusion is all there is now.
I hope they get Zauriel or perhaps Father Matthias to help comfort and deal with her; the former has a mission related to learning about humanity, I believe, and the latter should have access to Church resources and is a decent man, of ignorant of the details of angelic activity. I wonder if Zauriel has met the leaders of Abrahamic faiths off-screen.
Regarding the angelic account of Creation conflicting with Paragon's more Maltusian perspective, I personally prefer the explanation of faith-powered retroactive reality warping, which seems feasible with the Source involved, as well as events with the Dreaming showing it's possible to rewrite reality/history through dreams and beliefs. A multiple-choice past of the universe- also including creation accounts in non-Abrahamic faiths- can thus be viable.
Handlewithcare
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Ah OL. Modest as always
DrThoth
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On the particular point of humans not being meant to stay in the Silver City, Paragon is right both according to DC/Vertigo canon (Season of Mists states the Silver City is not Heaven) and in-story as shown by the Silver City episode, since the humans stuck there were part of a clandestine evil scheme.
Mr Zoat
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I haven't read all of that run, but from the first few issues it looked like Matrix got Linda's appearance and some of her memories. The resulting individual was basically Matrix with a few additions.
Ngamer11
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The fusion is all there is. She is basically a brand new person who has the combined experiences of a hateful demon worshiper and a stereotypical holier-than-thou angel. She is going to have to learn who she is, which is going to be a long process.
I would read an omake about Zauriel telling Abrahamic higher ups the real story on angels. If Father Mattias does show up again, I hope we can see him get into another theological debate with OL, maybe with other members of the Team listening and giving their 2 cents on the topic.
Stsword
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Yes, that's a fair assessment.
That apparently happens with Earthborn angels, one of the parts being dominant in the merger.
Comet had the opposite situation, Comet's core personality was the human component, the lesbian divorcee comedienne, instead of the superpowered horse-man.
The new consciousness is just that, a new consciousness, nothing more.
"Noriel" is just 14.5 billion years of memory in Linda's head, there's no possessing soul to extract.
Vaermina
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Vertigo canon maybe, but that got hit with the retcon stick when it joined with the rest of DC and now the Silver City is the final destination of all souls in the DC multiverse.
That said, that's not what I was talking about, I was talking about how anything he might be able to tell her she would already know.
jaelin910
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Do you ever provide citations or do you just say whatever and hope people will take your word for it?
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Akatsunami
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What other forums options does Zoat still have to move on to? I know he has done it twice already.
Senevri
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Well... Keyword here is really "superhero". Disqualifies a lot of the more powerful entities. Also Paul, on occasion.
Stsword
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Paul needed help to deal with Klarion and Dr Fate, so if LoC Constantine and the other John ersatz LoO aren't more powerful than Paul already, it's just a matter of time, I'd imagine.