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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Reader mode
Vaermina said:
Yes, because that would draw the Replicators to the Galaxy.



Not unless Zoat seriously nerfs Ancient technology.

And he'd have to be an idiot to even try given how insane Ancient security can be for anything that's not functionally a trinket.
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I mean you say that but the SGC was able to spoof ancient security systems after what, five years of study? That is not an enormity of time.
 
Mr Zoat said:
Or he might say: "Wait, seriously? Why are you harvesting tissue from existing clones to clone new bodies? Why not just digitise your earlier genetic structure and replicate new genetic strands based on that as-needed"?

And then the asgard would be saved.
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Because that didn't work.

We don't know why that didn't work, but we know the Asgard had that technology, and we know nothing they had allowed them to fix the problem.


Radiant Knight said:
I mean you say that but the SGC was able to spoof ancient security systems after what, five years of study? That is not an enormity of time.
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If you're talking about the gene therapy, that only worked because the people in question already had the gene in a dormant state.

Mind, perfectly spoofing an Ancient would likely be worse, because then the systems would wake to full instead of the, basically safe mode, ancient descendants normally get. At which point the system would know he was spoofing it due to the mental component, and either brick the system or worse.
 
Bigreader said:
So I'd like a comparison from people who are more familiar with DC than I am and possibly Stargate are the ancients from Stargate the equivalent to the Guardians of OA?
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They are the closest equivalent to the Malthusians I'd say, ancient humanoids who used technology to become immortal psychics. The Guardians would seem to have the advantage in power- Guardian feats include moving celestial bodies and interplanetary teleportation of cities.

Comparing them to the Guardians doesn't work socially though, because other than preventing the Ori from coming in and taking over and stopping Anubis from taking advantage of his Ancient knowledge, the Ancients basically practice the Federation's Prime Directive- The struggles of lesser races aren't their problem.
 
Stsword said:
They are the closest equivalent to the Malthusians I'd say, ancient humanoids who used technology to become immortal psychics. The Guardians would seem to have the advantage in power- Guardian feats include moving celestial bodies and interplanetary teleportation of cities.

Comparing them to the Guardians doesn't work socially though, because other than preventing the Ori from coming in and taking over and stopping Anubis from taking advantage of his Ancient knowledge, the Ancients basically practice the Federation's Prime Directive- The struggles of lesser races aren't their problem.
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Ancient feats include wiping an entire galaxy free of life, re-terraforming an entire galaxy after wiping it of life, creating a space/time bubble hundreds of light years in diameter, creating and then draining entire pocket universes to the point of entropic collapse, and the Stargate network.
 
Vaermina said:
Because that didn't work.

We don't know why that didn't work, but we know the Asgard had that technology, and we know nothing they had allowed them to fix the problem.



If you're talking about the gene therapy, that only worked because the people in question already had the gene in a dormant state.

Mind, perfectly spoofing an Ancient would likely be worse, because then the systems would wake to full instead of the, basically safe mode, ancient descendants normally get. At which point the system would know he was spoofing it due to the mental component, and either brick the system or worse.
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No I'm talking about all the times they bypassed the chair and hotwired things. You're making up a lot of security systems that do not exist in canon.
 
Radiant Knight said:
No I'm talking about all the times they bypassed the chair and hotwired things. You're making up a lot of security systems that do not exist in canon.
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Are you thinking of the time Carter attempted to bypass the Ori control chair to take control of an Ori Mothership and failed?

And no, I'm talking about stuff that shows up in the novels and comics.
 
So.

Small concern. Tiny problem. Little worry.

Zeus is a lazy bastard. I'm not certain how well he'd do at earning a Master's in Meteorology… but he's functionally still a god, just one restricted to controlling his single Avatar, which still has lightning powers.

Given the anti-life, is it possible that he just demanded a Masters? Hephaestaen may have said 'earn it,' but it's possible that 'earn it through strength' might count (see 'Labors of Hercules').

Or perhaps he internalized it; he's at a low point in his life. He's never been made mortal before.

Or perhaps he was yanked back to Olympus as just-an-avatar, around people (many gods) who he used to abuse.

The point is, I'm very worried about Zeus happening, even without Titanic power. Shame Paragon doesn't have the Blade of the Fallen, eh?
 
Mr Zoat said:
I'm going to be generous and assume that there's some reason why jaffa fight like they do. Like, Ma'tok were needed to punch through trinium armour or asgard force fields, then everyone slimmed down their armour because it wasn't stopping the weapons everyone used, but only a few places have realised that means that a Zat'nik'tel is now strictly superior due to maneuverability and rate of fire.
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Eh. I feel like a lot of discussions about alien battles are on the "the only purpose of battle is to win, and if you're not doing the most effective strategy to win, you're an idiot" level, which is kind of dumb.

That's not a thing that even humans do. It's kind of like looking down on modern soldiers because they don't use chemical weapons or tactical nukes, even in situations where those would be incredibly effective. There's often broader issues that cause militaries to use less-than-fully-effective tactics.

I could easily imagine a scenario where goa'uld warfare has been of a very limited nature for thousands of years because (a) Ra doesn't want things to get out of hand, so there's lines no one crosses to avoid it being open season on them, and (b) deep down, inter-goa'uld conflicts are mainly just entertainment and social maneuvering, which ritualized limited conflicts work for. More effective ways for your jaffa to kill the other jaffa is kind of not a good thing, if the end goal is to subsume conquered jaffa into your empire (and you want to avoid at all costs a pyrrhic victory in which you and your enemy brutally destroy each other's armies, only to have some third party swoop in at the end).

There's also the social inertia and conditioning aspects, where jaffa have been trained for generations that this is the Right Way to Fight, and that's a barrier to changing things, even after Ra's death.

It's not like goa'uld can't make the switch to more effective combat means--after all, there was the one episode in which it turned out that Apophis had a training planet in which he had human slaves training using Earth weapons and tactics, doing war games against jaffa warriors.
 
We known that Earth isn't considered to be a highly Developed world just Developed.
Earth is in the middle about to be really dangerous but how much our Paul doesn't know.
There are other highly Developed worlds/Civilizations out across then galaxy so how much does Paul know about them?
Any memory's or information on databases?
Its mentioned a few times about worlds that have been crushed when it's discovered or fight back too effectively.
 
boo600 said:
So.

Small concern. Tiny problem. Little worry.

Zeus is a lazy bastard. I'm not certain how well he'd do at earning a Master's in Meteorology… but he's functionally still a god, just one restricted to controlling his single Avatar, which still has lightning powers.

Given the anti-life, is it possible that he just demanded a Masters? Hephaestaen may have said 'earn it,' but it's possible that 'earn it through strength' might count (see 'Labors of Hercules').
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I don't know if Harvard does honorary degrees. But while they might give him something, it wouldn't be a Masters in Meteorology. And Hephaestaean isn't bound by his precise wording like a fae; he's perfectly capable of saying 'very funny, now go and do it properly'.
Bolo said:
We known that Earth isn't considered to be a highly Developed world just Developed.
Earth is in the middle about to be really dangerous but how much our Paul doesn't know.
There are other highly Developed worlds/Civilizations out across then galaxy so how much does Paul know about them?
Any memory's or information on databases?
Its mentioned a few times about worlds that have been crushed when it's discovered or fight back too effectively.
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Not all that much. Those worlds tend to be off the gate network and a long way away from major goa'uld areas, for obvious reasons.
Valint said:
It's not like goa'uld can't make the switch to more effective combat means--after all, there was the one episode in which it turned out that Apophis had a training planet in which he had human slaves training using Earth weapons and tactics, doing war games against jaffa warriors.
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Those weren't human slaves. Those were jaffa.
 
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Valint said:
Eh.
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Just to add my 2c on this. I've read a lot of reddit HFY stories, and there are two things that have really stuck in my head from it.

1. Humans have rules of war to keep from destroying everything. Others tend to have rules of war that are about glorious battles and to determine dominace. A lot of misunderstanding about 'honor' over these diffrent point of views.

2. If humanity does set aside the rules, goes full war of extermination.... is bad. Humans without humanity is an ongoing tragedy for everyone even tangentially involved.

.... I think I'm rambling a bit.
 
Bolo said:
We known that Earth isn't considered to be a highly Developed world just Developed.
Earth is in the middle about to be really dangerous but how much our Paul doesn't know.
There are other highly Developed worlds/Civilizations out across then galaxy so how much does Paul know about them?
Any memory's or information on databases?
Its mentioned a few times about worlds that have been crushed when it's discovered or fight back too effectively.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

There are other highly developed races- the Tollan + the Nox, the Asgard, the Vanir, the Ashen, Martin Lloyd's world (who fought and lost a 'war' against the Goa'uld. Notably an actual war, not just some light orbital bombardment, they had ships and everything), the Ohnes (apparently major figures fighting the Goa'uld across the galaxy, but we only ever saw one individual in one episode, ie: the fish guy from Fire and Water), the Omeyocan (Crystal Skull aliens), the Gadmeer, the aliens from Pleasure Cruise, etc.
 
Unreal (part 16)
  • Threadmarks
    • 30th March 2013
    03:29 GMT +2?

    It's a good job that Akhlys isn't in a hurry.

    Walking along the bank of the river dividing the Elysian Fields from the rest of Erebos, I've seen burned farms and fields, shattered statues and walls, despoiled palaces and rotting orchards. I'm not sure how she's achieved this, but… I think this is a reflection of the thoughts of the heroes who have been given control of the local afterlife as part of their reward for entertaining the gods in life.

    "Did they do this, or is it the result of your work?"

    "It is the same thing. They abandon their vainglorious fantasies, finally growing beyond their childishness."

    I'd hug her, but I don't think that would go well. At least I have time to recharge.

    Once we reach the 'northern' end of the Fields I create a construct bridge for us to cross as we turn 'north-east'. There isn't a lot in this part of Erebos, dark grey rock and dust giving the impression of a volcanic environment without any actual volcano. No settlers that I've seen, though whether that's because they're all bunkered up closer to the capital due to Akhlys or because this just isn't an appealing location I don't know.

    Or it could be because of the one feature that this part of Erebos has. The Punishment Fields are coming up on our right, and… I'm a little worried that I can't hear people crying out in pain. There should at least be a few people there, even if the long term residents have long since been discharged…

    Oh. Of course.

    "They seek meaning from their suffering. They do not yet understand."

    Two shades are fighting over access to some sort of… Mangle.

    "I thought you were pro-suffering?"

    "Yes. Of course. But that is not because it has a higher purpose, or a deeper or grander purpose. It simply… Is."

    "But you have purpose. You're spreading your truth. If it just 'was', then you could just… Go back to what you used to do; hanging around outside the gate to Tartarus."

    "My motivation comes from the Anti-Life itself. An… Impulse to spread. I don't regard it as good or bad, but I exist with nothing else. A leaf does not need to desire to fall to be blown on the breeze."

    Hu-uh. There's an angle of attack there. If I induce avarice, if I make her want something, would that throw the infection out?

    Uraaah, no, she's an Anti-Life infected goddess and I can't risk the Ophidian like that. Not without something else. Which I'm hopefully going to.. get…

    There's an army.

    "Ah, how interesting. More souls to enlighten."

    She strides-.

    "Wait wait wait wait." I fly backwards, facing her. "Let me talk to them."

    "Why would I do that?"

    "Because if I persuade them to move aside, we get to the Dream faster and you Anti-Life everyone faster."

    "You can fly more swiftly than a hawk. Convince them before I reach them."

    "Oh… Kay."

    Booster constructs and fly. Hard to tell where the command-. Wait, those are aliens from-. Shield!

    Some sort of plasma-. Ah, tie it into my tattoos because that's something exotic, ugh. Shield's holding and I'm getting closer-. Not sure who most of these people are, but that's Melinoë. Since her father's probably forgotten who she is I doubt that she's in charge, but her raw power should at least make her a senior officer. Soldiers fall back as I land in front of her.

    "M-."

    "I liked him. Perhaps he will wake up if I make him afraid."

    "Melinoë, I'm-."

    She gestures, and-.

    Spell eater reaching critical temperature.

    "And perhaps I could comfort him as he-."

    "I'm still me, Melinoë. We fixed Earth last month."

    She's armoured up, and it looks like Hephaestaean really put some effort into it. The base appears to be mithril, but it's as if some sort of dark gas is stuck to the surface, shifting into shapes of… Eyes, teeth and screaming faces. A bit generic, but I'm sure that she can do worse.

    "Explain."

    "The Anti-Life has convinced Akhlys that it's the fundamental truth of the universe. As such, she doesn't believe that it can be beaten or stopped. Meaning that she'll walk into a trap knowing that it's supposed to be a trap without any concern."

    "You have a trap in the Dream… No."

    "No? Melinoë, it-."

    "I conjured the greatest terrors in the collective unconscious to fight her last time, and she laughed."

    "Anti-Life thrives on fear. I'm afraid that you went the wrong way with that."

    She rolls her eyes. "What am I the goddess of?"

    "Nightmares and madness, yes, this wasn't playing to your strengths. Honestly, I'm impressed that she wasn't able to turn you as well."

    "My own nightmares bring me comfort, not distress." The shadows clinging to her armour roil for a moment-

    Your fault your fault all your fault and you can't fix it.

    -and I see-. Nothing of consequence.

    "Can we pass?"

    She looks around at her force. A few of them are firing on Akhlys, and she casually ignores everything that hits her. "Where is Diana?"

    "Hopefully, she's reached Alan and is coming here via the Dream."

    "And what is your back-up plan?"

    "I force her to want things and throw the Anti-Life out that way."

    "And mitigation? How will you stop her tearing the Dream asunder?"

    "I'll stop her before she gets that far. I'll have to."

    "Tch. No. You may pass, and I will come with you. I will hold the Dream together against her and against you."

    I take a step closer, take her right hand in mine and smile at her. "Thank you."

    "Tch. Still an idiot."
     
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  • Threadmarks
    • Mr Zoat said:
    I take a step closer, take her right hand in mine and smile at her. "Thank you."

    "Tch. Still an idiot."
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    And he asks why Zagreus thought that he was courting her?

    I'm also a big fan of Melinoe; honestly, after Zatanna, best romantic interest introduced in the story and the banter she has with the Illustres is always entertaining.
     
    Mr Zoat said:
    30th March 2013
    03:29 GMT +2?

    It's a good job that Akhlys isn't in a hurry.

    Walking along the bank of the river dividing the Elysian Fields from the rest of Erebos, I've seen burned farms and fields, shattered statues and walls, despoiled palaces and rotting orchards. I'm not sure how she's achieved this, but… I think this is a reflection of the thoughts of the heroes who have been given control of the local afterlife as part of their reward for entertaining the gods in life.
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    To recall a song, they've been tearing down their 'empires of dirt', huh? In spirit, if not in person. And to be fair, all of them... They would have regrets, many of them. It's in the nature of Heroes to live big, and die sadly...

    "Did they do this, or is it the result of your work?"

    "It is the same thing. They abandon their vainglorious fantasies, finally growing beyond their childishness."
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    Except they're not replacing it with anything but sadness and pain... That's no healthy way to exist.

    I'd hug her, but I don't think that would go well. At least I have time to recharge.

    Once we reach the 'northern' end of the Fields I create a construct bridge for us to cross as we turn 'north-east'. There isn't a lot in this part of Erebos, dark grey rock and dust giving the impression of a volcanic environment without any actual volcano. No settlers that I've seen, though whether that's because they're all bunkered up closer to the capital due to Akhlys or because this just isn't an appealing location I don't know.
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    I doubt many people would like living in a region like this. Sure, volcanic soil is fertile, incredibly so, but it's also harsh, and obsidian is a constant hazard...

    Or it could be because of the one feature that this part of Erebos has. The Punishment Fields are coming up on our right, and… I'm a little worried that I can't hear people crying out in pain. There should at least be a few people there, even if the long term residents have long since been discharged…

    Oh. Of course.
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    The place where the worst of the worst were placed by the gods for their crimes. Tantalus, Sisyphus, and many more mortals who broke divine rules and called down retribution on their heads...

    "They seek meaning from their suffering. They do not yet understand."

    Two shades are fighting over access to some sort of… Mangle.
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    ...Ah. People are flocking here to make use of the tools, because of her...

    "I thought you were pro-suffering?"

    "Yes. Of course. But that is not because it has a higher purpose, or a deeper or grander purpose. It simply… Is."
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    Because she suffered constantly. Of course she expects that to be the simple nature of existence... Or at least, believes it when the Anti-Life says so.

    "But you have purpose. You're spreading your truth. If it just 'was', then you could just… Go back to what you used to do; hanging around outside the gate to Tartarus."

    "My motivation comes from the Anti-Life itself. An… Impulse to spread. I don't regard it as good or bad, but I exist with nothing else. A leaf does not need to desire to fall to be blown on the breeze."
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    Ah... Perhaps she's always felt she should have some higher function, and the Anti-Life makes her think she's found it, eh...

    Hu-uh. There's an angle of attack there. If I induce avarice, if I make her want something, would that throw the infection out?

    Uraaah, no, she's an Anti-Life infected goddess and I can't risk the Ophidian like that. Not without something else. Which I'm hopefully going to.. get…
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    The joy of being stuck with no resources. OL just lets events drag him around until he can pull out something...

    There's an army.

    "Ah, how interesting. More souls to enlighten."
    Click to expand...
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    I see the defenders of the Underworld have arrived.

    She strides-.

    "Wait wait wait wait." I fly backwards, facing her. "Let me talk to them."
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    Since them fighting would mean someone getting hurt, and likely them being touched by Anti-Life.

    "Why would I do that?"

    "Because if I persuade them to move aside, we get to the Dream faster and you Anti-Life everyone faster."
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    This is still a bad plan, but if it's honestly all you've got...

    "You can fly more swiftly than a hawk. Convince them before I reach them."

    "Oh… Kay."
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    Great, a generous time limit. But a time limit all the same.

    Booster constructs and fly. Hard to tell where the command-. Wait, those are aliens from-. Shield!

    Some sort of plasma-. Ah, tie it into my tattoos because that's something exotic, ugh. Shield's holding and I'm getting closer-. Not sure who most of these people are, but that's Melinoë. Since her father's probably forgotten who she is I doubt that she's in charge, but her raw power should at least make her a senior officer. Soldiers fall back as I land in front of her.
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    Some of Mother of Mercy's former denizens, eh? Those rising to defend their chosen afterlife?

    "M-."

    "I liked him. Perhaps he will wake up if I make him afraid."
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    Oh, she's definitely taking this worse than Zagreus.

    "Melinoë, I'm-."

    She gestures, and-.
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    Sadly, I doubt the madness would affect him all that well, given his ability to power through most things with Enlightenment.

    Spell eater reaching critical temperature.

    "And perhaps I could comfort him as he-."
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    But still better not to chance it, eh...

    "I'm still me, Melinoë. We fixed Earth last month."

    She's armoured up, and it looks like Hephaestaean really put some effort into it. The base appears to be mithril, but it's as if some sort of dark gas is stuck to the surface, shifting into shapes of… Eyes, teeth and screaming faces. A bit generic, but I'm sure that she can do worse.
    Click to expand...
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    Not gonna lie, getting a real Dark Eldar/Slaaneshi vibe from that description. I like it.

    "Explain."

    "The Anti-Life has convinced Akhlys that it's the fundamental truth of the universe. As such, she doesn't believe that it can be beaten or stopped. Meaning that she'll walk into a trap knowing that it's supposed to be a trap without any concern."
    Click to expand...
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    Of course, whether that trap actually affects her remains to be seen.

    "You have a trap in the Dream… No."

    "No? Melinoë, it-."
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    She's not willing to take that risk, I see. It is a total long-shot, after all.

    "I conjured the greatest terrors in the collective unconscious to fight her last time, and she laughed."

    "Anti-Life thrives on fear. I'm afraid that you went the wrong way with that."
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    Not the best matchup, really.

    She rolls her eyes. "What am I the goddess of?"

    "Nightmares and madness, yes, this wasn't playing to your strengths. Honestly, I'm impressed that she wasn't able to turn you as well."
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    That is a good point. By her very nature...

    "My own nightmares bring me comfort, not distress." The shadows clinging to an armour roil for a moment-

    Your fault your fault all your fault and you can't fix it.
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    Heh. It does not like him, I see. But it's spitting truth.

    -and I see-. Nothing of consequence.

    "Can we pass?"
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    Typical OL. If he doesn't want to recognise it, he ignores it.

    She looks around at her force. A few of them are firing on Akhlys, and she casually ignores everything that hits her. "Where is Diana?"

    "Hopefully, she's reached Alan and is coming her via the Dream."
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    Still a solid question of travel time. Even if she raced for the nearest League teleporter, grabbed Alan and Sanderson and rushed back...

    "And what is your back-up plan?"

    "I force her to want things and throw the Anti-Life out that way."
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    Just... No good plans at all, eh, OL?

    "And mitigation? How will you stop her tearing the Dream asunder?"

    "I'll stop her before she gets that far. I'll have to."
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    Or hold out long enough for its master to show up.

    "Tch. No. You may pass, and I will come with you. I will hold the Dream together against her and against you."

    I take a step closer, take her right hand in mine and smile at her. "Thank you."

    "Tch. Still an idiot."
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    Such is the nature of his Enlightenment. He wants what he wants, and sticks to it even if something different comes along.

    And so the raiding party grows, I see. One to lay the trap, one to walk into it, and one to snap it shut on them. Let's hope it goes the way OL thinks it will, or events are going to get a lot noisier. Honestly, OL really needs to find an excuse to step away and recharge his Rings. :confused: Even something as simple as 'I need the bathroom.' would do, improbably as that is.
     
    Lord Ernest said:
    And he asks why Zagreus thought that he was courting her?

    I'm also a big fan of Melinoe; honestly, after Zatanna, best romantic interest introduced in the story and the banter she has with the Illustres is always entertaining.
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    Well she's no Spider Queen, but if we can't have that, she's definitely more interesting than Jade.
     
    Mr Zoat said:
    "Tch. No. You may pass, and I will come with you. I will hold the Dream together against her and against you."

    I take a step closer, take her right hand in mine and smile at her. "Thank you."
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    Itching close to emotional affair here lol

    Mr Zoat said:
    No. The only other possible was Alexander Luthor, and he wasn't interested.
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    Amazing Man wasn't interested? Having a transmuter around seems useful.
     
    Mr Zoat said:
    No. The only other possible was Alexander Luthor, and he wasn't interested.
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    Yeah, guy has his own planet to take care of.

    CTrees said:
    Well she's no Spider Queen, but if we can't have that, she's definitely more interesting than Jade.
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    I mean, she is a goddess, so she may be able to change her form to be more spider-like.

    I'm honestly now picturing her trying to scare him off by transforming into a giant spider, only to be immediately confused when Paul looks interested.

    HeroineRule34Guy said:
    Amazing Man wasn't interested? Having a transmuter around seems useful.
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    A lot of the people that were infected may want to live peaceful, stress-free lives now so that they don't sink back into depression, and the superhero life isn't exactly either of those things.
     
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