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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

8th April 2013
17:20 GMT


I walk across the grass field that was once home to my tasmanian tiger pack. The yips and barks are absent, as are the curious pups and their foster parents. All shipped down to Earth, to zoos and nature reserves who will make certain that they never go extinct again.

Huh. Melancholic.
Well, it's a finished hobby project. I'm sure all people get that way when they finish something they've invested so much time and effort into over years of their life. On the other hand, there's also the satisfaction of the completed work, and the relief that now you can work on something else.

I'm glad to have done it, no doubt. I don't like it when unique things vanish from the world, and people were generally happy to have them back. It's good work, even if it's not associated with my core 'thing'. But the fact is that I just don't have the time to spend on this sort of project any longer, so…

I'm shutting it down.
It's a comparatively minor improvement to your domain. But one that might make other people want to do the same someday.

I spot Guan checking the health of one of the trees. He and a small team of genomorphs kept things ticking over in my absence, but there was a micrometeorite impact this week that caused an earthquake which undermined one of the domes, and… They don't have the skills or equipment to fix things like that, and… Current generation genomorphs have better people skills but Guan is a little older. I don't know what the others have planned for his team. Doing the same job on Tamaran or Karna, perhaps?
How would they react to a simple retirement? Let them go off somewhere, just build stuff for their own sake. Since I assume the act of building is encoded into their psyches...

A few paces behind me Luna is looking around, but I can tell that she finds the structure itself more interesting than the grassland. She tears her eyes away from the hologram-free dome and the starry sky beyond for a moment, studying my face as I look at her.

She frowns faintly. "Does this place have happy memories for you?"
Safe bet that she appreciates the starry sky better than most. Perhaps taking notes for Equestria...

"It may surprise you to hear it, but I don't actually relish moral ambiguity. This was one of the few unarguably good and selfless things I did on my own initiative. But after the dodos and giant turtles, there… There aren't a lot of species that Earth is really missing. And I don't really have the time to work here any longer."
What, no desire to recreate dinosaurs on some remote island somewhere? No, wait, that's already a thing in DC... :p

She walks closer, bumping my right let with her left shoulder in a gesture of support.

"What will you do with it?"
Honestly? Is there any need to do anything besides let it collapse into a curiosity for future space travellers?

I look around. "Can't leave any animals here. It's designed to be accessed by boom tube only, and I'll have to remove the tube generator here when we finish shutting it down. So there's no point giving it to the European Space Agency or anything like that. Can't move it…"
Can't leave unattended boom tube tech laying around, after all.

I shrug as I reach down to fondle her mane with my right hand. Obviously I can move it, but there's not a lot of point. Tamaran has more than enough wilderness to resurrect species on ranches, with no space habitats required. And anywhere else, it would be easier to build something new.

"Would not Sir Lex's space navy have some use for it?"
They'd probably rather build their own, and the modifications needed would make it too much trouble.

I shake my head. "No. I asked, and they actually have more use for the outside of Titan than they do for this place. If they want to train for fighting in Earth-like conditions they can do that on Earth, and I didn't design this reserve to replicate radically different environments." I sigh. "Places like this are actually a feature of a lot of systems, when the locals did a lot of space travel before discovering a faster-than-light drive. Way stations and fuel silos that stopped being useful and… Weren't worth dragging back to be dismantled. Some of them end up as tourist attractions, or… Something."
Mysteries millennia down the line after sociological collapses or the extinction of the species, more often than not. Wonder how Earth will react if we ever find something like this out there?

"Didst you ever visit with your children?"

"Oh, yes. I didn't want the puppies to get too tame, but dodos and… Ground parrots… Ah, they're not competitive. They'd just die out in the wild, so it really doesn't matter if they're tame. Helps, honestly, because people look after their pets."
Well, it's not their fault they were so tasty to the funny new folks wandering around their islands and had next to no natural predators...

"Did they not take them as pets?"

"No. Birds aren't really a good fit for a fortified mountain, and they'd just get eaten outside. And they're not… Ah, not intelligent enough to play like a dog or a cat or.. a raven could. I don't know, none of them have really said anything about wanting a pet, and…"
Well, they were probably worried about what might happen if they have an episode while playing with it. Just because they know that their treatments have fixed the issue doesn't mean the fear of it isn't there.

I'm rubbing the fur behind her ears. As my fingers stop moving she cranes her neck, pushing then into her scalp. Then she stops, jerking her head around so that she can stare up at me with narrowed eyes.

"Thou had best not-."
Ah, one of the common quirks of human-Equestrian interactions. Fingers are so handy for ear-scritches...

"Humans still have all the instincts of our furry ancestors and no way to actually enact them with their bald bodies, alright? That's half the appeal of having furry animals around. We don't need them as mousers or for protection or anything. You happen to scratch the same instinct. Do ponies not..? Groom each other?"

"Yess." She give her mane a small toss, retuning the top of her head to the optimal head massage position. "Though your fingers are more dextrous than hooves or tongue."
Or a brush held in teeth or telekinesis. And I suspect the sharing of such an activity is a very intimate thing for some.

"Tongue? Should I be concerned?"

She frowns. "Why wouldst you be concerned about Our Sister's tongue?"
Oh, my... [/takei] But seriously, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that it's a thing pony mothers do for their foals.

"And now I'm concerned for entirely different reasons."

Luna rolls her eyes. "Grooming another's coat is a perfectly normal way to strengthen familial bonds. Not whatever your depraved mind is thinking."
Just don't go mentioning that around your human fans, Luna. You'll come back later to find all manner of interesting things online...

"Depraved? No, it's just…" I shudder theatrically. "Celestia."

"Your quarrel with Our-"
They're effectively rival rulers. Is it any wonder they interact in such antagonistic ways?

"I mean, if it had been someone else…"

"-Sister grows wearisome. Mayhap you would benefit from reading Her Student's book?"
Oh, boy. Dare I imagine what kind of book on Friendship Twilight wrote?

"I don't hate her. I just dislike her because of what she's failed to do with the country. I only rag on her as a joke." … "Ninety… Five percent as a joke."

Luna huffs quietly, though the top of her head stays under my fingers.
Of course, that last five percent... That's where a lot of their conflict comes in, I bet.

"Whilst we are on the subject of Sister, she hath raised an idea."

"Loins girded. Hit me."
Oh, dear. Hopefully it's not too hare-brained.

"Our retirement. Naturally, We would wish to complete Our review and revival of the Royal Guard first, but… Sister has ruled Equestria for more than a thousand years. We can well understand how she would prefer to change her life at long last."

"Well, I won't complain about being able to spend more time with you. But I thought that you liked participating in government?"
Nothing says you have to retire together anyway. Surely Luna could work part-time with the new government until it settles...

"We find satisfaction in improving Our nation, it is true. But that does not require Us to be the supreme regnant authority. The role We have made for Ourself requires that Our Sister remains as principle ruler, and if she is unwilling…"

"Okay, so what sort of government was she thinking of installing instead? And what sort of timeline did you have in mind?"
And how loudly is the Renegade going to complain about it?

"I believe that Our Sister had in mind stepping down in two to three years." Wha-? "And that Her Student would ascend once more to become Princess Regnant."

"Oh gosh that's a terrible idea."
Holding himself back, I see. Or is he just saving the proper response for Celestia? :p

"Why? Sunset hath shown no interest in-."

"Nonono, not that. Twilight Sparkle is… What, in her early twenties?"
Pfft. As if Sunset would want to rule anything besides a dedicated research academy.

"That is correct."

"And she's occupied… No government offices at all? And has no experience in national governance?"
Oh, I don't see this going at all well. The Twilight meltdown is going to become legend if this goes through.

"She hath served as an aide on a number of occasions, but… No. She hath held none of the offices of state. We also did not hold such offices."

"But you were a bit older. Right?" She nods. "And Equestria was a lot smaller and less connected when you came to power. And-." I wince. "Knowing what I do of Celestia's methods, I assume that Twilight hasn't been warned and isn't going to receive specific training?"
Of course not, because Celestia seems to operate on the 'sink or swim' mentality...

"We-ll… We do not know for certain that Sister will not…" Her eyes flick away. "Probably."

"If you really want to do that, Twilight needs warning, training and… Frankly, I'd say that the country needs about twenty years to adjust, which is fine because that's about how long she'll need to learn the skills to do the job. Actually switching to another system of government would take even longer." I close my eyes and exhale through my nose. "Why don't we go and..? Talk to Celestia about this?"
And honestly, I don't think Twilight would be happy as a ruler. An advisor, a wise old sage the leadership can consult, maybe. Actually being in charge? To quote Big Macintosh: "Eenope!"

He'd better be quick, because I don't think Celestia would feel like waiting before she packed up her crowns and left with only a note for Twilight as warning. As old as the Princess is, I don't think she's ever been troubled by forethought sometimes. Perhaps he can convince her to slowly put together a constitutional monarchy or something...

...bumping my right let with her left shoulder in a gesture of support.
...bumping my right leg with her left shoulder in a gesture of support.
...pushing then into her scalp.
...pushing them into her scalp.
...retuning the top of her head to the optimal head massage position.
...returning the top of her head to the optimal head massage position.
 
"It may surprise you to hear it, but I don't actually relish moral ambiguity. This was one of the few unarguably good and selfless things I did on my own initiative. But after the dodos and giant turtles, there… There aren't a lot of species that Earth is really missing. And I don't really have the time to work here any longer."
The Northern White Rhino? The Western Black Rhino? The Quagga? The Passenger Pigeon? The Caspian Tiger? The Carolina parakeet? The Pyrenean ibex? Caribbean monk seal? The Pinta Island tortoise? The Barbary Lion? There's a lot of animals that went extinct in the last hundred+ years that Grayven could easily acquire DNA from preserved samples and clone the species back to life.
 
The Northern White Rhino? The Western Black Rhino? The Quagga? The Passenger Pigeon? The Caspian Tiger? The Carolina parakeet? The Pyrenean ibex? Caribbean monk seal? The Pinta Island tortoise? The Barbary Lion? There's a lot of animals that went extinct in the last hundred+ years that Grayven could easily acquire DNA from preserved samples and clone the species back to life.

Good point, I'd focus on the Passenger Pigeon and save American chestnuts my self. Also the Ivory billed woodpecker and then there is the plan to help prevent global warming by bringing back Mammoths.
 
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...bumping my right leg with her left shoulder in a gesture of support.
...pushing them into her scalp.
...returning the top of her head to the optimal head massage position.
Thank you, corrected.
Good point, I'd focus on the Passenger Pigeon and save American chestnuts my self. Also the Ivory billed woodpecker and then there is the plan to help prevent global warming by bringing back Mammoths.
How many types of pidgeon does the world actually need?
 
Seriously?

Guys, when she was in his dreams, and they fought the Tantabus/Anti-Life, he confessed his Paul-ness as his Element of Honesty. This is not hard to remember! It's from the arc where Grayven Was Evil at the Mane Six! This was memorable and contained important Plot, since it's where his Anti-Life Fragment was destroyed!

*Haughty, conceited sniff*
 
We don't even know if this is human Paul or New God Grayven with his memories. Paul/Grayven isn't even sure.

At this point, isn't he equally both? The original SI didn't have a Soul, but what Father Box eventually built was already pretty similar to original Grayven's. Then, that SI-Grayven fused or whatever with the original Grayven, until Artemis did some Archery-Surgery on the new amalgamated Soul, resulting in a Grayven² that generally thinks, speaks and behaves like the SI-Grayven.

It's a Ship of Thesseus shit, so people may see it differently though.
 
Not surprised that not everyone really knows what he has or has not told Luna. I distinctly remember people openly declaring they refused to read the Equestria chapters because "Ew! Ponies!".

You also see a lot of that with Equestria At War. Its one of the best mods out there for Hearts of Iron 4 and a lot of people refuse to even try it solely because of "Ew! Ponies!".

I guess they think their balls will shrivel up and fall off or something. Its some real baby behavior.

===============

Also, Celestia and Luna just up and retiring like that was pretty stupid. Especially because we learned that, ultimately, Equestria collapsing and the world degenerating to the state it's in in G5 is Twilight's fault.

An evil alicorn named Opaline shows up, and basically decides she wants to pull a Tirek by taking all the world's magic for herself. Instead of doing something to, I don't know, actually defeat the threat . . . Twilight decides to just unilaterally take away everyone's magic and seal it into special gems. With the sealed up magic being used to power a bubble shield around Equestria that keeps Opaline out.
 
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Also, Celestia and Luna just up and retiring like that was pretty stupid. Especially because we learned that, ultimately, Equestria collapsing and the world degenerating to the state it's in in G5 is Twilight's fault.

An evil alicorn named Opaline shows up, and basically decides she wants to pull a Tirek by taking all the world's magic for herself. Instead of doing something to, I don't know, actually defeat the threat . . . Twilight decides to just unilaterally take away everyone's magic and seal it into special gems. With the sealed up magic being used to power a bubble shield around Equestria that keeps Opaline out.
Twilight: "I will stop you stealing everypony's magic by stealing everypony's magic myself!"

Interesting thought, though. Starswirl knew that an alicorn could control the day/night cycle without draining themselves before Celestia and Luna did it. Now he might just have been good enough to work out the thaumaturgical mechanics... But maybe he'd experimented with that before?
Nice word, one that I'd never encountered before.
Really? Because I'm pretty sure I've used it before.

Yes, according to Google, I've used it three times before.
 
Well, G5 also retconned in that there's some hidden country in the sky called Skyros that's inhabited entirely by Alicorns. With Celestia, Luna, and Opaline all being from there. (No idea if it still exists.)

Celestia and Luna actively ignored Opaline and refused to be friends with her when she tried to befriend them. On top of this, she also became jealous of them and all the praise they got when they developed their connections to the sun and the moon.

Then for some reason Celestia and Luna decided to leave Skyros, met and were mentored by Starswirl, and decided to unify the Earth Ponies, Pegasi, and Unicorns to create Equestria. (With Equestria being around 1113 years old when G4 started.)

Then for some reason Opaline decided to wait for over 1000 years to cause trouble, because she didn't actually do anything until after Twilight was put in charge of Equestria. Oh, and she's an Alicorn supremacist that thinks only Alicorns should have power and everyone else should worship them.
 
Hello Zoat. This is my biannual recommendation to separate these renegade chapters to their own thread. Thanks for the update
 
To be fair, the epilogue of MLP G4, which takes place many years after the end, did show that Twilight did a good job at ruling Equestria, so obviously, Celestia was on to something when she made Twilight her successor. Granted, you're not wrong to say that Celestia and Luna could have handled the situation better and that they should have prepared Twilight better for the role, but still.

The fact that Equestria was doing well after the timeskip proves that despite her lack of training or experience, Twilight must be at least somewhat competent at being a ruler, otherwise Equestria would have probably collapsed in the first year of her reign.

Besides, things only went to shit after Opaline showed up, and neither Twilight, Celestia or Luna had any way of anticipating that this would happen, nor could they have known how Twilight would react to Opaline.
 
Hello Zoat. This is my biannual recommendation to separate these renegade chapters to their own thread. Thanks for the update
Twice a year or every other year?
Then for some reason Opaline decided to wait for over 1000 years to cause trouble, because she didn't actually do anything until after Twilight was put in charge of Equestria. Oh, and she's an Alicorn supremacist that thinks only Alicorns should have power and everyone else should worship them.
So, exactly how Equestria actually worked?
 
Has Grayven told Luna that he's actually human?
Yeah. It happened in a dream sequence.
She needed to gain all the lights if the Emotional Spectrum, he needed to prove himself worthy of the Elements of Harmony, he gained the Truth be revealing his human status and deceit to her.
And poof her artificial nightmare and his anti life were destroyed.
 
Canonically, Twilight must have effed up something fierce. Otherwise, next gen wouldn't have happened the way it seemed to. With the caveat that I've only glanced at the new stuff.
 
Not surprised that not everyone really knows what he has or has not told Luna. I distinctly remember people openly declaring they refused to read the Equestria chapters because "Ew! Ponies!".

You also see a lot of that with Equestria At War. Its one of the best mods out there for Hearts of Iron 4 and a lot of people refuse to even try it solely because of "Ew! Ponies!".

I guess they think their balls will shrivel up and fall off or something. Its some real baby behavior.

Ponies are dull. Like people with all the interesting parts removed. So is Grayven being a dick for no reason. I read it, because it wasn't as boring as not having anything to read, but I certainly didn't remember it.
 
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Trivialities (supplementary, Renegade option)
8th April 2013
10:32 GMT -7

A construct telephone floats next to my head as I contemplate Starswirl's Mirror.

"Hey, Sunset, do you have a minute?"

"I'm about to take a lab, so this better be important."

Luna give me a 'are you serious' look. I smile and nod. She rolls her eyes and tosses her mane.

"I'm about to visit Equestria because Celestia's got a stupid plan and I need to explain to her how stupid it is. Slowly, using small words. And it's either going to mess up her plan or I'm actually going to have to conquer Equestria after she enacts it because it's going to mess up the whole country."

"I'm not… Sure…"

"Tell you what: if you come then I won't give Twilight Sparkle a copy of Rules for Rulers and Machiavelli's The Prince."

"That… Wait, what's she planning?"

"I guess you'll just have to-" Luna fires a starry blue beam at the Mirror from her horn, altering the time dilation affect to 'skip' Equestia forward so that we'll appear during an empty patch in Celestia's diary. Using it like that allows Luna to spend time on Earth whenever I have spare time without missing anything on Equestria, a neat side benefit from us both being ageless. "-come and find out."

"Aghhh… Fine, but only because I don't trust you in Equestria-" The air to my right shimmers as Sunset appears, and I dismiss my telephone construct. "-without me."

"It was only a small riot."

She stares at me. "Yes, Grayven, foals are usually small."

Luna regards Sunset wearily. "Our Sister's former student, We hope that thou art not deriving schadenfreudic pleasure in anticipation of Our Sister's future discomfiture."

"No, not… Yet."

"Sunset, if thou dost wish to mend thine relations, such practices will not aid thine efforts."

"It's not exactly that. I just want her to get used to ponies demonstrating that she can be wrong." … "And when it happens I want to be just out of her field of view. So she's thinking about me."

I nod. "Your ancestors should never have moved their eyes to the front. It's a bad idea in prey-species."

Luna shakes her head. "Do not make Us regret this more than We already do. Jean, We would appreciate-" A hush tube appears in front of her. "-a passage home. Thank you."

Luna trots through as Sunset and I approach the Mirror. Sunset's frowning. "What's she planning on doing, anyway?"

"Abdicating."

Sunset yanks her head around to stare at me- "Ow!" -and manages to walk into the Mirror's frame face first.

"Yes, it-."

She keeps staring at me as she rubs her cheek. "Abdicate? Are you serious? She's ruled the country for a thousand years!"

I nod. "I know. I'd have thought that if she kept it up for fifty years that she'd pretty much run in a groove until the Armies of the Righteous finally threw her out, but it turns out no."

"Do you think it's because of Sombra?"

I consider the possibility. "No, I… Don't think so. Cadence and Shining Armor combine ruling a city with having a romantic relationship, and Luna and I manage it as well. Actually, I was wondering-." I gesture to the Mirror part of the Mirror. "Shall we?"

She nods, and I walk through, appearing on the other side in my pony form. Sunset follows me through a moment later, taking a moment to check herself over and smile as she reviews her wings.

"Ah, what were you wondering?"

"The Hearthwarming story. The leader of the unicorn ponies was a princess, the leader of the pegasus ponies was a commander and the leader of the earth ponies was a chancellor… Or something like that."

She nods. "That's right?"

"So how come Celestia just uses the unicorn pony title?"

She snorts as we head out of the Mirror chamber. "You've seen our military, right?"

"Yes?"

"As far as I was able to tell, she's never been part of the military. She's fought things, but-." Her eyes narrow. "In the books I read, she mostly did that on her own. I guess that in reality Luna was there too."

I shake my head. "Don't even get me started on her revisionism."

"That's why she's not 'Commander'. I think that title got used for the leader of the Equestrian Army back when we had one, then it got retired. And she's never been elected to office, so she doesn't get to call herself Chancellor. That title wasn't used for centuries before it got recycled for our chief bureaucrat. When I lived here, that was Scribed Tome, but I don't actually know who it is now." She wing-shrugs. "If I had to guess, I'd say that she took the title 'Princess' not because of any sort of unicorn tribalism but more because she wasn't qualified for the other two and the ancient pegasi and earth ponies would have been insulted if she took them as well or instead."

I grin as we head towards the dining room. "Heh."

Sunset's horn glows, pushing open the double doors and granting us entrance. Celestia looks up a little self-consciously from her mostly-finished breakfast, while Luna is levitating a couple of oversized chairs over to the table for me and Sunset.

"Grayven. Would you like to join us for breakfast?"

"Ah, thank you but no. Not breakfast time for me." I trot over to occupy the chair opposite her while Sunset takes one… Sort of next to Celestia, but just out of her visual field while she's talking to me. "You and… You and Sombra doing alright?"

"Yes, thank you. Both of us are busy with our duties, but we are able to find some time to spend together."

"Feel free to abuse the Mirror if you want a break. Listen… Luna…" I look around and check that there are no servants or guards in the room and that the door is shut. "Told me that you have a retirement plan?"

She glances at Luna before returning her attention to me. "I do."

"And it occurred to me that since my special talent is running countries and yours isn't, it might be a good idea if we… Worked on it a bit."

She gives me a mildly sceptical look that makes it clear that she knows that I'm choosing my words with deliberate politeness.

"I would be happy to hear your concerns. I know that me no longer being on the throne would be a big change, but I'm confident that my little ponies-"

I don't have to look at Sunset to know that she's rolling her eyes as she mouths the phrase.

"-are capable of adapting."

"Yes, and appointing a nationally recognised heroine to succeed you is a perfectly sound choice. My main.. concern is the timeline. And.. Twilight's training. Because Twilight's special talent isn't administration either, which means that she'll have to learn the normal way."

Celestia considers me for a moment. "Grayven, are you trying to spare my feelings?"

"It-. Yes, yes I am."

Her ears flop, and her body sags. "How bad?"

"Since ponies are generally pretty nice… I think the country would survive. But the world isn't ready for a twenty year old demigoddess with supreme executive authority and obsessive compulsive disorder. It would be… Less than ideal."

She sighs sadly. "Alright. What do you suggest?"
 
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