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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

I would hypothesize that while they will remove the wings he has since they were stolen. They very well might give him his own genuine wings as he has been acting in their capacity this whole time.

I'm not sure how much it matters if he keeps his angel wings at this point.

I imagine he's had them long enough that he now has a soul made up of angelic light and could retain his faith based magic.
 
Huh, if Paul wasn't basically outerversal to the DC Multiverse, wouldn't this mean that Angel!Paul is the original Paul, as he came before the Universe was shattered into the Multiverse.

Depends on the multiversal mechanics at work here. DC's multiverse has been created, separated, compressed and destroyed several times already, and tend to form in several different structures with each iteration.

multiverse%20map%20edited.png
Above is one of the more recent type maps of the known multiverse for DC (sadly yes from the days of New 52, pardon me Mr Zoat for my sin), The Source being the white section constrained from directly contacting realities by the source wall. Next in is the Sphere of the Gods....that is the realms of heaven and hell, new genesis and apokalypse. Note that in this case these touch All contained realities and are Singular Instances....in other words there would ONLY be one of each rather then having distinct versions for each earth in the 'verse. One Apokalypse and One Darkseid for all creation, with the different iterations seen in each earth only effectively being avatars of the 'True' Darkseid. Within that you get all the various different Universes. In More Recent years we've also had 'the dark multiverse' show up as....various earths that were formed but were inherently unstable...these existed ...for lack of a better term, 'Below' the pictured map, and in general they would fall apart and never 'rise' to join the rest of existence.

Now....from close observation, we can gather that, due to A) Mr Zoat's adverse reaction to New 52 as well as the inclusions of more then 52 earths, and B) non DC universe's involved that don't share any of thing with DC, that what ever multiversal mechanics Do Not Match this iteration of the functioning of the ....and I dislike using this term .... 'Omniverse'. (I'd prefer 'Greater Multiverse' for when multiple settings cross over with differing cosmologies)

Now With That Said....there are some implications that SOMETHING is funny with how the New Gods / Angels / Source / Multiverse works. For one thing, the existence of Paul and Grayven in 'earth 16' (as well as implications that the 'canon' earth 16 Also Exists) means that even the effective multiverse travel that we've observed, the Earth-[Insert Number Here] stuff, Doesn't account for .... what to call it....sub-variants?

So....if we reach back to the Crisis of Many Pauls, we get Time Trapper Paul's (re)invention of Hypertime. Which gives us a different structure to the universe. That all different iterations are all equally valid in the time stream and flow past and overlap with each other as the 'shape' of the multiverse twists and bends going down stream. LOTS of wiggle room with Hypertime, since it's rules were never given, and it's explaination vague enough to handle just about anything. Great, an answer that's fuzzy enough you can't define it and can't question it....good enough for fan fic right?


I'd be perfectly content with that......BUT for just ONE LITTLE THING that's been bugging me for quite some time now.

Way back here we get to see the New God Lightray meet Orange Lantern for the 'first time' right at the end of it. and I'll quote it:


"Did we come at a bad time?"

"When it's you? Hah, it's always a bad time!"

I turn my head to make eye contact as he smirks.

"Have we met before?"

He blinks, frowning, before breaking into a grin.

"Hah!"


....and That one little laugh has been BUGGING ME for a long time now. Because it implies something.

I don't know WHAT it's implying, but I have 3 guesses.

One is that 'the sphere of the gods' IS a real thing, and thus New Genisis and New Gods Are just Avatars of Singular entities, and thus This Lightray 'remembers' meeting Other versions of Paul (which would include earlier encounters with Grayven).

Alternatively 'this' Paul might have done some time travel universe hopping travel at some Later Point, where he encounters an Earlier Version of This Lightray....which would have been a very nice answer if not for the previous Hypertime stuff functionally separating universes that DO EXACTLY THAT.

Guess #3 is simply that Lightray isn't talking to Paul but instead talking to the Ophelian, which might have encountered the New Gods several times over their history...but that's a distant 3rd because their's nothing to support it other then guesswork.


Anyway....I was content to wait and didn't expect anything to come out of that little new god giggle....but then Lan Here shows Up.

We've had the Implication that the Source 'exists' in all WTR multiverses, that 'God' or 'the Presence' exists across all multiverses as a singular entity because Grayven has been universe hopping and his New God Nature keeps functioning. But Lan Here implies that not only New Gods but also Angels have an understanding of the multiverse. Which makes sense with JLD's time travel and flashpoint stuff, considering what The Spectre is capable of, with him being 'God's Wrath' .

Anyway...seems I've wandered away from the point of this all.....Well.

I don't think Angle Paul is the 'First' Paul....as there is nothing that makes angels in one verse any more 'first' then any other verse, nor one Paul anymore the OG then the others, (Baring Mr Zoat as .... himself)


At least thats all the Watsonian logic I can inject into this....the Doylist answer would be, at the end of the day, Mr Zoat showing up to OL like Jack Kirby to the FF back in the day, sitting in front of a computer typing.
 
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tbh that sort of thing is why nobody takes DC comics seriously anymore

I'd argue they would if they had just been willing to stick with one iteration of reality. Deeper setting mechanics only have value if they are consistent and you can track their influence over long periods of time / portions of the story. DC repeatedly blowing up their own setting because they have no tolerance for the writing constraints of long term storytelling is exactly why no one takes them seriously. Why care when they have made it clear that they are going to press the reset button the second the setting becomes the least bit unwieldy?

As an aside, this exact behavior is why I've always enjoyed specific pieces of DC media, like Young Justice, but never had much interest in the comics. A character and story needs a beginning, middle, and eventual end. Back when they just said "this is the story of earth XYZ" you could still reliably follow the story of a specific character from a specific world from the start of their career to the day they either died, were retired, or that world stopped being written. I came into all this well after that era, so all this is probably moot anyways, but those were the only conditions under which I would have been interested in pursuing the comics themselves.
 
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It's also sort of hard to give a shit with the constant nonsensical escalation. I was reading about the Batman-Who-Laughs the other day and made the mistake of digging into the new cosmic DC lore. The anti-monitor isn't enough anymore, we have to invent their weird brother, evil sixth-dimensional mom, and a whole set of "evil" multiverses? What happens after we beat them, then? If there's always something bigger then there's essentially no stakes.
 
Goo-Goo G'joob (part 1) New
Goo-Goo G'joob

17th June 2013
11:34 GMT -5


I watch as Lantern Son of Great Mother floats over the farm, construct tools occasionally appearing to make a repair or trim the grass. A short distance away the cows are very happy to have a full feed trough. Modern farm animals are generally bred to need far more fuel than they can get from grazing, and with the family who once worked here… No longer able to, they've been hungry for a while.

"And you're alright doing this?"

"It is well within the bounds of my competencies."

"Yes, but a lot of Orange Lanterns prefer work relating to their personal fixations. I want to check that you're not getting bored to the point where it's impeding your effectiveness."

"It is a mindless and repetitive task. Why would I find it boring?"

Why indeed. "Alright. Once you've finished, list required materials, personnel and timelines to keep this farm functional, as well as predicted yields, upload to me and to the League database."

"I will."

I nod. "Keep up the good work."

His image over my ring tilts to the side slightly. "I do not know what constitutes 'good', but I am satisfied that you are pleased."

"In this case, 'good' is that which assists in restoring Earth society to full functionality without completely upending it."

"I do not understand. Earth society was upended by the Anti-Life. Is 'good' upending it again, or not?"

"I meant… Default human society, not how it was during the Anti-Life period. Like… You wouldn't 'restore' Great Mother to how she was when the dominators took her over, would you?"

"No."

"Same principle. There's a healthy state and an unhealthy state-."

"Unless she asked me to." … "Except if she was being compelled to ask me." … "I am confused."

"You'll get there. Focus on fixing the farms, and then report to me."

"I comply with contentment. I was made to obey."

Well, it's progress. Won't do much for the city's food supply until we can get some people familiar with milking here to start. And… Since no one has been here to slaughter the male calves, the herd is probably going to need some culling in order to turn it back into a normal dairy herd. Mr. Kent has already put out messages through the farming areas of Kansas that there are farms going begging for anyone who wants to stay in the industry but doesn't stand to inherit, but I think people are… Mostly focusing on their local area.

Huh. I know that horses drive colts away from the marital herd, but I've never bothered looking up what wild cows do.

I… Fly back in the direction of Hub City. I haven't actually seen The Question since this started. I.. don't think he died, if only because he hasn't been reported as dead, but it's a fairly generic costume and there are a lot of places for a body to go missing in a city. His magic abilities mean that finding him with a scan isn't a reliable thing, and… It feels a little intrusive. I don't need to find him, and if he wants to talk to me it's not as if I'm not obvious.

Heavy excavation machinery is based around the area where Mr. Schreiber's people are starting work. He's not on-site himself, of course. Designing an entire city centre isn't a quick process even for someone as skilled as he is. Though taking out every review and level of bureaucracy is speeding things up a good deal. But one of the first decisions he and I made is that it'll be easier to replace all of the utility cables and pipes as we go, rather than trying to work with what's already there. As a result, what we have so far is a giant hole, some prefabricated concrete sections and a whole lot of rubble. This would be basically impossible if the city was functional and fully inhabited, and messy as it is now…

Even if nothing else I've done here comes to anything, at least the city will have a little direction as it gradually pulls itself together. A nice thing about things being so bad is that it's almost impossible to make them worse.

And… I'm only me. Having a superhero work a great deal on one city isn't very likely to mess up our entire civilisation.

"Incoming communication request from Blue Lantern."

"
Answer. Morning, Alan."

"Hey, Paul."
His bust regards me curiously. "Kinda surprised you haven't called me already."

"
I thought I'd give you to the afternoon, just in case."

"Hey, I'm not that kind of heel, I'll have you know. Though, ah…"

"
She wants to wait until the second date?"

"She wanted to know what it would cost to buy you out of your betrothal."


I squeeze my eyes shut. "Darn it."

"Don't feel too bad. It was my best date in fifty years."

"
Yes, but now if I tell Jay about it he's just going to say 'Oh, how did it go?', and then I'm going to feel like a prat." I open my eyes again. "I assume that you told her it isn't that sort of relationship?"

"I did, which made her confused. She thought I was speaking to her so I could arrange things for you."


I wince again, this time on his behalf.

"But at least the food was good."

"
Um."

"And I will say that I'm not feeling as gun-shy as I did, so it wasn't a complete waste of time."

"
So maybe twenty-five years until the next time?"

"Heh. Ah. I'll think about it."

"
Right. I'll speak to her and make it super-clear myself. And maybe take Jade along?" He raises an eyebrow. "Do you think that's a good idea?"

"I wouldn't have thought so, but I guess Jade must be pretty tolerant if she's still seeing you."

"
Ow, Alan. Ow." Hm. "And I do need to take her to see the Dream King at some point… Maybe we could make a day of it?"

"How's Hub City?"

"
Much the same, now with a ruddy great hole in it while they're sorting the utilities for the first block. It's progress of a sort."

"You don't wanna just..? Wave your hand and do it yourself?"

"
I don't want to give people worldwide the idea that's what's going to happen. I want them to see regular people putting their cities back together, not things being fixed by some weirdo with city-fixing superpowers. At least, as much as possible."

"I'm a little surprised, but I guess I can see where you're coming from."
He smiles. "Good luck with Jade. Blue Lantern out."
 
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Yeah, this was pretty expected.

Yeah.

While it was mentioned she tried to marry Ted in the comics, I don't judge her too harshly there.

A woman can do much worse than Ted Kord.

However I don't think it was mentioned that was because of time travel, in the original timeline she gave her virginity to Booster Gold.

Who then used time travel to throw his BFF under that bus.

So yeah trying to marry any man who gives her any attention seems to be her entire dating strategy.
 
Goo-Goo G'joob

17th June 2013
11:34 GMT -5


I watch as Lantern Son of Great Mother floats over the farm, construct tools occasionally appearing to make a repair or trim the grass. A short distance away the cows are very happy to have a full feed trough. Modern farm animals are generally bred to need far more fuel than they can get from grazing, and with the family who once worked here… No longer able to, they've been hungry for a while.
Left or dead, I expect. Another casualty of the Anti-Life. And there's probably a great many more like that, human impositions of order upon Nature slowly devolving back into wilderness as the months go on. A great many fields going fallow, for example...

"And you're alright doing this?"

"It is well within the bounds of my competencies."
It's not a matter of competency, though. It's a matter of desire.

"Yes, but a lot of Orange Lanterns prefer work relating to their personal fixations. I want to check that you're not getting bored to the point where it's impeding your effectiveness."

"It is a mindless and repetitive task. Why would I find it boring?"
He is basically a soldier ant, after all. To actually have a defined task to focus on is probably better for him.

Why indeed. "Alright. Once you've finished, list required materials, personnel and timelines to keep this farm functional, as well as predicted yields, upload to me and to the League database."

"I will."
And then they'll send him on to the next, and the next after that, most likely.

I nod. "Keep up the good work."

His image over my ring tilts to the side slightly. "I do not know what constitutes 'good', but I am satisfied that you are pleased."
Now if only more Orange Lanterns could manage that sort of 'work for work's sake' mentality. They'd probably find a lot of use in reconstruction.

"In this case, 'good' is that which assists in restoring Earth society to full functionality without completely upending it."

"I do not understand. Earth society was upended by the Anti-Life. Is 'good' upending it again, or not?"
...Humanity was kind of adapting to Anti-Life. Not well, and not happily, but people are decent at adapting to a new everyday.

"I meant… Default human society, not how it was during the Anti-Life period. Like… You wouldn't 'restore' Great Mother to how she was when the psions took her over, would you?"

"No."
In this case, it's more a case of 'improved' and 'lessened'. I'm guessing she was a lot less... Adaptable? Proactive? Before the scientists' fiddling.

"Same principle. There's a healthy state and an unhealthy state-."

"Unless she asked me to." … "Except if she was being compelled to ask me." … "I am confused."
Welcome to being a rational, sophont being. There are sometimes no easy answers in some situations.

"You'll get there. Focus on fixing the farms, and then report to me."

"I comply with contentment. I was made to obey."
Definitely seems happier when he doesn't have to think for himself.

Well, it's progress. Won't do much for the city's food supply until we can get some people familiar with milking here to start. And… Since no one has been here to slaughter the male calves, the herd is probably going to need some culling in order to turn it back into a normal dairy herd. Mr. Kent has already put out messages through the farming areas of Kansas that there are farms going begging for anyone who wants to stay in the industry but doesn't stand to inherit, but I think people are… Mostly focusing on their local area.
Moving to a whole new region, a whole new farm to work on would be a big uprooting, and a lot of the farms that still have family running them are probably concentrating on keeping together for now.

Huh. I know that horses drive colts away from the marital herd, but I've never bothered looking up what wild cows do.

I… Fly back in the direction of Hub City. I haven't actually seen The Question since this started. I.. don't think he died, if only because he hasn't been reported as dead, but it's a fairly generic costume and there are a lot of places for a body to go missing in a city. His magic abilities mean that finding him with a scan isn't a reliable thing, and… It feels a little intrusive. I don't need to find him, and if he wants to talk to me it's not as if I'm not obvious.
That is a very good point. We know they got Barda back, but the Question and Black orchid? Still unknown statuses.

Heavy excavation machinery is based around the area where Mr. Schreiber's people are starting work. He's not on-site himself, of course. Designing an entire city centre isn't a quick process even for someone as skilled as he is. Though taking out every review and level of bureaucracy is speeding things up a good deal. But one of the first decisions he and I made is that it'll be easier to replace all of the utility cables and pipes as we go, rather than trying to work with what's already there. As a result, what we have so far is a giant hole, some prefabricated concrete sections and a whole lot of rubble. This would be basically impossible if the city was functional and fully inhabited, and messy as it is now…
To some degree, this is going to be more like building an entirely new city on the site of the old. Especially if they begin replacing older, rundown buildings still in use as they go, moving people form the old to the new.

Even if nothing else I've done here comes to anything, at least the city will have a little direction as it gradually pulls itself together. A nice thing about things being so bad is that it's almost impossible to make them worse.

And… I'm only me. Having a superhero work a great deal on one city isn't very likely to mess up our entire civilisation.
And in the case of an Orange Lantern, it gives him something that is his.

"Incoming communication request from Blue Lantern."

"
Answer. Morning, Alan."

"Hey, Paul."
His bust regards me curiously. "Kinda surprised you haven't called me already."
Ah, the date went well, then? Let's hear it, unless you're playing the 'A Gentleman doesn't kiss and tell' card.

"I thought I'd give you to the afternoon, just in case."

"Hey, I'm not that kind of heel, I'll have you know. Though, ah…"
Ah, all polite and not hopping into bed on the first date? How old-fashioned, Alan. 😘

"She wants to wait until the second date?"

"She wanted to know what it would cost to buy you out of your betrothal."
...That is honestly about what we expected, even if OL didn't.

I squeeze my eyes shut. "Darn it."

"Don't feel too bad. It was my best date in fifty years."
A sample size of one is kind of hard to compare.

"Yes, but now if I tell Jay about it now he's just going to say 'Oh, how did it go?', and then I'm going to feel like a prat." I open my eyes again. "I assume that you told her it isn't that sort of relationship?"

"I did, which made her confused. She thought I was speaking to her so I could arrange things for you."
Admittedly, that's probably how things are done on her world. In certain circles, anyway.

I wince again, this time on his behalf.

"But at least the food was good."
So the night wasn't a complete waste, at least.

"Um."

"And I will say that I'm not feeling as gun-shy as I did, so it wasn't a complete waste of time."
Good on you, Alan. Getting back in the saddle isn't easy after being on the bench for so long.

"So maybe twenty-five years until the next time?"

"Heh. Ah. I'll think about it."
Well, he's got time now, so no rush.

"Right. I'll speak to her and make it super-clear myself. And maybe take Jade along?" He raises an eyebrow. "Do you think that's a good idea?"

"I wouldn't have thought so, but I guess Jade must be pretty tolerant if she's still seeing you."
Well, either they'll get along, or they'll try to kill each other.

"Ow, Alan. Ow." Hm. "And I do need to take her to see the Dream King at some point… Maybe we could make a day of it?"

"How's Hub City?"
...That'd be one heck of a day trip.

"Much the same, now with a ruddy great hole in it while they're sorting the utilities for the first block. It's progress of a sort."

"You don't wanna just..? Wave your hand and do it yourself?"
You do remember he's been trying to break people of the habit of expecting that, right?

"I don't want to give people worldwide the idea that's what's going to happen. I want them to see regular people putting their cities back together, not things being fixed by some weirdo with city-fixing superpowers. At least, as much as possible."

"I'm a little surprised, but I guess I can see where you're coming from."
He smiles. "Good luck with Jade. Blue Lantern out."
Yeah, he'll need it...

An amusing little check-in. Good to see Son of Great Mother keeping busy, and Alan doing well getting himself out there again. Maybe next time he can ask Diana for a date? And about what was expected for Queen Artemis, fixating on OL. I wonder what madness this 'day trip' might lead to, especially given the Episode title...
 
"I don't want to give people worldwide the idea that's what's going to happen. I want them to see regular people putting their cities back together, not things being fixed by some weirdo with city-fixing superpowers. At least, as much as possible."
Lex Luther: Finally someone who understands!
 
However I don't think it was mentioned that was because of time travel, in the original timeline she gave her virginity to Booster Gold.

Who then used time travel to throw his BFF under that bus.

So yeah trying to marry any man who gives her any attention seems to be her entire dating strategy.
I don't remember that. What comic was that in?
It was dominators I'm pretty sure psions are extinct in this timeline.
Thank you, corrected.
 
"I meant… Default human society, not how it was during the Anti-Life period. Like… You wouldn't 'restore' Great Mother to how she was when the dominators took her over, would you?"

"No.""I meant… Default human society, not how it was during the Anti-Life period. Like… You wouldn't 'restore' Great Mother to how she was when the psions took her over, would you?"
Your correction needs correcting...
 
"Yes, but now if I tell Jay about it now he's just going to say 'Oh, how did it go?', and then I'm going to feel like a prat." I open my eyes again. "I assume that you told her it isn't that sort of relationship?"
Extraneous 'now'

Well, that explains that with Artemis. It really was a cultural difference. Honestly it might be interesting if he did let the betrothal be bought out, because I don't really care about Jade, but of course he won't. And I don't really care about Artemis either, so it would only be a potential improvement.
 
"I comply with contentment. I was made to obey."

i like the implication here. its almost like LSoGM is an assimilated construct lantern without having to be an assimilated construct. what better low-level functionary than a being that genuinely has no drive or want more than following orders? if "obeying" is the sole motivation that powers LSoGM's avarice and therefore Orange Ring power, i think maybe cloning it and rewiring the clones' drives to serve the Corps instead of Great Mother would be a great way to produce some high-powered / low-complication / maximum-return cannon fodder in the war against the Reach. I'm thinking something along the lines of the Golden Army from Hellboy, to be activated/deactivated at the Clarissi's discretion.
 
i like the implication here. its almost like LSoGM is an assimilated construct lantern without having to be an assimilated construct. what better low-level functionary than a being that genuinely has no drive or want more than following orders? if "obeying" is the sole motivation that powers LSoGM's avarice and therefore Orange Ring power, i think maybe cloning it and rewiring the clones' drives to serve the Corps instead of Great Mother would be a great way to produce some high-powered / low-complication / maximum-return cannon fodder in the war against the Reach. I'm thinking something along the lines of the Golden Army from Hellboy, to be activated/deactivated at the Clarissi's discretion.
The problem there is that they'd be loyal to Great Mother first of all.
 

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