With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[NightmareWarden]

Spoiler: Links for "story only"

"Yes, the bounty on Zond is still outstanding, and it can be claimed by submitting any reasonably recognisable body part. Yes, Mother's in fine health and no, I'm not interested in marrying you."

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Replacement link https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Zond_(Earth-One)

"But this won't solve anything. Whichever of you wins, all of the information is in the public domain. We already rescued people from the Caligula Club, and they'll be talking to everyone. You can't hush this up! The only way for Britain to keep working is for us to go with Grayven's plan and stop him if he turns out to be evil later."

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No correction, just wanted to say thank you for introducing me to protonmen several years ago.

Hah. If Sinestro thought that I was bad, I can only imagine what he's saying to someone who creates constructs in order to fly.

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Link is dead, replacement from the 1997 movie special https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Guy_Gardner_(Justice_League_Pilot) . You could use this instead if you want the live action wiki equivalent, or the movie page linked at the top https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/DC_Television .

There's no sign on the door. No sign on the fence. Even the building number is concealed by the shape of the entrance. Nothing to indicate that this property is unique or special. But with the front of the upper two floors torn out I can see the decorations, prominently featuring the vaguely phallic symbol the.. Invisible Magi or whatever they call themselves use to represent their cult.

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Dead link. Lots of Hellblazer issue covers with symbols, but at a glance I can't tell which ones have to do with the (presumably demon-Mason-aligned) group Grayven defeated. You might have to recreate the symbol or grab a link from a timestamped Hellblazer YouTube video for with the page you need. Or you just mean one of the astrology symbols for the planets and I'm being silly.

I did finally give the comics a peek, and was absolutely gobsmacked and amazed by the art. Stupendous stuff in there. Golden Boy and the start of Tim's arc might be on the upper end for all I know, but this has good dialogue and good art.

 

[Mr Zoat]

6th March 2025
09:38 GMT -5

I dodge, dropping to just off the floor and letting the ring pull my body around their darting claws as they tear into the tarmac and concrete beneath me!

Two swords.

"…doing, he was helping!"

I pull my legs in and spin swords out, slicing through legs, arms, torsos and heads as chunks of robot and corpse drop to the ground around me. Then I look around to check on Invincible.

"Hh!" He forms the fingers of his right hand into a point and jabs it into the side of a zombot, just above the metal cummerbund and just under the pauldron. Dead flesh and bone part as he ignores the flailing attacks of the other zombots until-.

With a hate filled grin he pulls his hand free, a grey cybernetically-augmented heart in his hand.

Splat.

Then he starts punching, red eye pieces on each of their faces shattering and being driven into their skulls.

"And there. They're dead." Someone is talking to local Invincible. I'd assume that it's the G.D.A., given the fact that they're talking about the zombots being deployed. "That was a complete waste of time!"

Listen in and track.

"They're part of the invasion force, Mark. And they already admitted that they conquered their Earth."

Wuuymm.

I turn my head and just about catch sight of two of the zombots teleporting out with the broken remains of Omvincible and Dark Invincible.

"Where'd you just take those guys?"

"Somewhere secure. They-"

Interrupt.

"-won't get out. And if you've somehow convinced yourself that-."

I smile. "Do I have the pleasure of addressing Director Stedman?"

"Eyuuugh!." Invincible slices through the neck of the last remaining zombot with the blade of his right hand, then shakes it to get rid of the blood. Then he glares at the local Invincible. "Thanks a lot. Really feeling the gratitude for getting Mom somewhere safe."

Local Invincible ignores him, is pressing his ear piece. "Cecil?"

After a moment, Cecil responds to me. "And who are you supposed to be?"

"Orange Lantern. Or Orange Lantern Two Eight One Four, if you're being precise. And you're obviously taking those Invincibles to turn into more cyborg zombies."

Local Invincible stares at me, hovering in the air as he does so with his limbs going slack.

Eve on the other hand is frowning. "Are there.. two thousand eight hundred and thirteen more-?"

"It's the designation of this region of space, not the number of other Lanterns."

External.

A construct image of Director Stedman appears, floating in the air between us. Local Invincible darts in front of him.

"You're harvesting them for parts? What the Hell, Cecil?"

"Earth's getting both barrels right now, Mark. I don't have time to debate this with you."

Invincible drifts closer to him, nodding. "My Cecil was just as bad."

Director Stedman doesn't respond immediately, but rather looks at something off camera and.. then turns to face Invincible. How-?

I look up at the unmanned drones flying over us.

"Because he tried to stop you taking over the world?"

"Because he got Mom killed. Because-." He looks at me for a moment, then returns his attention to the Cecil projection. "Have you ever heard of virtue ethics?"

"There's a global invasion of you going on, but sure, I've got time for a lecture on philosophy."

"Basically, the reason why you should be a good and disciplined person is that you can't predict everything that can happen. But if you're virtuous, it's easier to deal with the unpredictable. My Cecil was just as much of an asshole as you are. And what happened? He thought he had Sinclair under control too. Because he didn't care about justice, or morals, he just had to get his weapon. Only it turned out that he didn't know the weapon better than the guy who invented it."

"You're taking nonsense. Sinclair is under observation twenty-four seven, and I've got the controls for every single one of them. Including the controls to the self-destruct."

"If you were smart enough to understand them then you wouldn't need him to make them." His head jerks in my direction. "Shut it down."

I nod, dismissing the construct and pointing upwards, orange lines momentarily connecting me to the drones before tearing them apart. Normally I'd be worried about shrapnel injuries, but honestly anyone who's still on the streets at this point is just asking for trouble.

And now Invincible's looking in the general direction of Washington, and the G.D.A. headquarters. That could get… If Angstrom Levy doesn't come back to observe the damage we've caused, then we're stuck here. I know that Anissa is perfectly capable of raising our child as a viltrumite, but that isn't really something that I want for them. I need to get back.

"Invincible, if I may make an observation?"

"Yeah-! Yeah, what is it?"

"The Global Defence Agency may well be in dire need of reform, but they aren't going anywhere. Angstrom Levy can go anywhere he wants whenever he wants. Including to pick up more versions of you."

Local Invincible looks at Invincible. "Do you know where he is?"

Invincible hesitates, his hands balling into fists for a moment. Before he relaxes them. "No. He contacts us. He's got some kinda spaceship he uses to move around in space before opening his portals." He pauses. "'Space' as in 'around the world' not… Space."

Eve nods. "Because otherwise he'd have to walk everywhere. Anything else?"

"Ah, he's got these little spy drones. He's usually got a couple with him…"

Local Invincible realises something. "That's who was spying on us?"

"Oh, yeah." Invincible nods. "He's, like, totally obsessed with you. It was… Kinda disturbing. And then it got really disturbing because the us with the Mohawk said he had a…" He glances awkwardly at Eve. "Harem of.. look-alikes too, and we all looked around at each other…"

Local Invincible makes a short choking sound.

"Ah, Lantern, is he on this Earth now?"

Scan. "No, I'm afraid not."

"Okay. Take Eve and go find some of his drones. We need to show him something that will make him actually come here."

Eve raises her left eyebrow. "Excuse me?"

"He's got the same powers as you and he's better with them. Watch what he does and learn how to do it. Me and-" He nods at Local Invincible. "-your Mark can hunt down the other usses."

She clearly doesn't like being told what to do, but unable to come up with a better idea, she nods.

Invincible turns back to me. "Lantern, where's the closest other me?"

 

[Ngamer11]

"The Global Defence Agency may well be in dire feed of reform, but they aren't going anywhere. Angstrom Levy can go anywhere he wants whenever he wants. Including to pick up more versions of you."

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That should say 'need'.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Spoiler: Links for "story only"

Replacement link https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Zond_(Earth-One)


No correction, just wanted to say thank you for introducing me to protonmen several years ago.

Link is dead, replacement from the 1997 movie special https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Guy_Gardner_(Justice_League_Pilot) . You could use this instead if you want the live action wiki equivalent, or the movie page linked at the top https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/DC_Television .


Dead link. Lots of Hellblazer issue covers with symbols, but at a glance I can't tell which ones have to do with the (presumably demon-Mason-aligned) group Grayven defeated. You might have to recreate the symbol or grab a link from a timestamped Hellblazer YouTube video for with the page you need. Or you just mean one of the astrology symbols for the planets and I'm being silly.

I did finally give the comics a peek, and was absolutely gobsmacked and amazed by the art. Stupendous stuff in there. Golden Boy and the start of Tim's arc might be on the upper end for all I know, but this has good dialogue and good art.

Click to shrink...

Thank you, updated.

That should say 'need'.

Click to shrink...

Thank you, corrected.

 

[Chojin Patriarch]

6th March 2025
09:38 GMT -5

I dodge, dropping to just off the floor and letting the ring pull my body around their darting claws as they tear into the tarmac and concrete beneath me!

Two swords.

Click to shrink...

I suppose that's one way to get around not having combat reflexes as developed as your partners. And sudden teleported goons is probably the second-easiest way to get a Lantern with any experience into melee range (The first being superspeed, of course.)

Spoiler: Commentary spoilered for length

"…doing, he was helping!"

I pull my legs in and spin swords out, slicing through legs, arms, torsos and heads as chunks of robot and corpse drop to the ground around me. Then I look around to check on Invincible.

Click to shrink...

...Admittedly, when someone does get into melee, it's very hard to pin a Lantern down either.

"Hh!" He forms the fingers of his right hand into a point and jabs it into the side of a zombot, just above the metal cummerbund and just under the pauldron. Dead flesh and bone part as he ignores the flailing attacks of the other zombots until-.

With a hate filled grin he pulls his hand free, a grey cybernetically-augmented heart in his hand.

Click to shrink...

Seems a little foolish to assume that's the sole power source, but I expect he's had to deal with more than a few in his time.

Splat.

Then he starts punching, red eye pieces on each of their faces shattering and being driven into their skulls.

Click to shrink...

Good chance to take out some anger before he has to deal with more alternates.

"And there. They're dead." Someone is talking to local Invincible. I'd assume that it's the G.D.A., given the fact that they're talking about the zombots being deployed. "That was a complete waste of time!"

Listen in and track.

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Man, remember when OL could casually scan the entire planet so easily? This is a good way to scry-and-die Cecil if they need to.

"They're part of the invasion force, Mark. And they already admitted that they conquered their Earth."

Wuuymm.

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...Does he realise that killing them here won't unconquer their Earth? Then again, he's not concerned with the alternate Earths, just his own. That's enough world for one man to manage.

I turn my head and just about catch sight of two of the zombots teleporting out with the broken remains of Omvincible and Dark Invincible.

"Where'd you just take those guys?"

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Wonder if Sinclair will care if they're actually dead or not?

"Somewhere secure. They-"

Interrupt.

"-won't get out. And if you've somehow convinced yourself that-."

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Ah, Cecil, you poor, paranoid fool... Best intentions, road to Hell and all that.

I smile. "Do I have the pleasure of addressing Director Stedman?"

"Eyuuugh!." Invincible slices through the neck of the last remaining zombot with the blade of his right hand, then shakes it to get rid of the blood. Then he glares at the local Invincible. "Thanks a lot. Really feeling the gratitude for getting Mom somewhere safe."

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...Which I'm not sure they knew about. Unless he mentioned it earlier and I missed it.

Local Invincible ignores him, is pressing his ear piece. "Cecil?"

After a moment, Cecil responds to me. "And who are you supposed to be?"

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Not audible in his voice, the panic of someone piggybacking their signal. He's probably already ordering extra defences brought online.

"Orange Lantern. Or Orange Lantern Two Eight One Four, if you're being precise. And you're obviously taking those Invincibles to turn into more cyborg zombies."

Local Invincible stares at me, hovering in the air as he does so with his limbs going slack.

Click to shrink...

Really, Mark, did you not expect something like this? Hasn't he seen some of Cecil's bullshit already?

Eve on the other hand is frowning. "Are there.. two thousand eight hundred and thirteen more-?"

"It's the designation of this region of space, not the number of other Lanterns."

Click to shrink...

Hmm... Imagine if DC comics exist here and recognise both his powers and the 'region of space' comment and extrapolates that into 'there's thousands of him out there.'

External.

A construct image of Director Stedman appears, floating in the air between us. Local Invincible darts in front of him.

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Much nicer to have his scarred mug to yell at, rather than a voice in his ear.

"You're harvesting them for parts? What the Hell, Cecil?"

"Earth's getting both barrels right now, Mark. I don't have time to debate this with you."

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...And fans of the franchise will already know what's coming along sometime in the next week or two...

Invincible drifts closer to him, nodding. "My Cecil was just as bad."

Director Stedman doesn't respond immediately, but rather looks at something off camera and.. then turns to face Invincible. How-?

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No doubt he caught the tense of the statement. And is choosing to take it as an implied threat.

I look up at the unmanned drones flying over us.

"Because he tried to stop you taking over the world?"

Click to shrink...

Easy assumption, but he does always seem to think the worst unless proved otherwise, doesn't he?

"Because he got Mom killed. Because-." He looks at me for a moment, then returns his attention to the Cecil projection. "Have you ever heard of virtue ethics?"

"There's a global invasion of you going on, but sure, I've got time for a lecture on philosophy."

Click to shrink...

Eh, they can only kill people so fast. And with these guys fighting them, they'll be handled before long.

"Basically, the reason why you should be a good and disciplined person is that you can't predict everything that can happen. But if you're virtuous, it's easier to deal with the unpredictable. My Cecil was just as much of an asshole as you are. And what happened? He thought he had Sinclair under control too. Because he didn't care about justice, or morals, he just had to get his weapon. Only it turned out that he didn't know the weapon better than the guy who invented it."

Click to shrink...

And if this Cecil is just as paranoid, he should be rightfully wary of using this guy's work too.

"You're taking nonsense. Sinclair is under observation twenty-four seven, and I've got the controls for every single one of them. Including the controls to the self-destruct."

"If you were smart enough to understand them then you wouldn't need him to make them." His head jerks in my direction. "Shut it down."

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A good point. What's to stop their maker hiding some override that gives him sole control of them where the GDA's best people can't find it?

I nod, dismissing the construct and pointing upwards, orange lines momentarily connecting me to the drones before tearing them apart. Normally I'd be worried about shrapnel injuries, but honestly anyone who's still on the streets at this point is just asking for trouble.

And now Invincible's looking in the general direction of Washington, and the G.D.A. headquarters. That could get… If Angstrom Levy doesn't come back to observe the damage we've caused, then we're stuck here. I know that Anissa is perfectly capable of raising our child as a viltrumite, but that isn't really something that I want for them. I need to get back.

Click to shrink...

Interesting that he didn't use filaments, but I could see him being less skilled, or just making an especially visible point.

"Invincible, if I may make an observation?"

"Yeah-! Yeah, what is it?"

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Man, Cecil really gets under his skin, huh? Kid really wants everyone to be better people, doesn't he?

"The Global Defence Agency may well be in dire feed of reform, but they aren't going anywhere. Angstrom Levy can go anywhere he wants whenever he wants. Including to pick up more versions of you."

Local Invincible looks at Invincible. "Do you know where he is?"

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A reasonable question, but going by context, Levy is keeping well out of the way to avoid another beating.

Invincible hesitates, his hands balling into fists for a moment. Before he relaxes them. "No. He contacts us. He's got some kinda spaceship he uses to move around in space before opening his portals." He pauses. "'Space' as in 'around the world' not… Space."

Eve nods. "Because otherwise he'd have to walk everywhere. Anything else?"

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On the other hand, once he does show up, they'll be on him like flies on stink.

"Ah, he's got these little spy drones. He's usually got a couple with him…"

Local Invincible realises something. "That's who was spying on us?"

Click to shrink...

I assume that was shown in the episodes/comics at some point.

"Oh, yeah." Invincible nods. "He's, like, totally obsessed with you. It was… Kinda disturbing. And then it got really disturbing because the us with the Mohawk said he had a…" He glances awkwardly at Eve. "Harem of.. look-alikes too, and we all looked around at each other…"

Click to shrink...

...Ew. And I can't necessarily see them being clones rather than kidnapped and brain-whammied alternates. Not sure which is the worse option.

Local Invincible makes a short choking sound.

"Ah, Lantern, is he on this Earth now?"

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...Really should have made sure of him, kid.

Scan. "No, I'm afraid not."

"Okay. Take Eve and go find some of his drones. We need to show him something that will make him actually come here."

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I wonder if trying to get him angry might be better than making him happy. Piss him off enough that he comes out of his hole to yell, only to get branded pronto.

Eve raises her left eyebrow. "Excuse me?"

"He's got the same powers as you and he's better with them. Watch what he does and learn how to do it. Me and-" He nods at Local Invincible. "-your Mark can hunt down the other usses."

Click to shrink...

I wonder if Lantern will clear up that incorrect assumption at some point or not? Probably in a private chat with Eve, perhaps.

She clearly doesn't like being told what to do, but unable to come up with a better idea, she nods.

Invincible turns back to me. "Lantern, where's the closest other me?"

Click to shrink...

Time to divide and conquer.

At least the 'zombots out of nowhere' didn't distract them for long. Unsurprising, given their collective combat experience. And it seems the alternate Mark and Lantern are making local Mark's relationship with Cecil feel a bit more strain than it did in canon. Wonder if that'll have any notable effects down the line...

 

[WereDragon]

"Because he got Mom killed. Because-." He looks at me for a moment, then returns his attention to the Cecil projection. "Have you ever heard of virtue ethics?"

Click to shrink...

Fair, OL is a better role-model than Omniman. At least if you care about winning the peace.

 

[Agumentic]

Because he didn't care about justice, or morals, he just had to get his weapon. Only it turned out that he didn't know the weapon better than the guy who invented it."

"You're taking nonsense. Sinclair is under observation twenty-four seven, and I've got the controls for every single one of them. Including the controls to the self-destruct."

"If you were smart enough to understand them then you wouldn't need him to make them." His head jerks in my direction. "Shut it down."

Click to shrink...

That's a stupid argument for many reasons, not the least of them being "Why the fuck would Sinclair even do this, he is already getting everything he wants out of life", but then Mark is kind of a dumbass.

 

[Mr Zoat]

That's a stupid argument for many reasons, not the least of them being "Why the fuck would Sinclair even do this, he is already getting everything he wants out of life", but then Mark is kind of a dumbass.

Click to shrink...

...

The version in the SI's timeline had exactly the same things, and did that. It already happened. If you think that Sinclair is rational, why didn't he just walk up to a G.D.A. office and ask for a grant before doing any of that?

 

[Agumentic]

...

The version in the SI's timeline had exactly the same things, and did that. It already happened. If you think that Sinclair is rational, why didn't he just walk up to a G.D.A. office and ask for a grant before doing any of that?

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"Something that never happened in canon happened in the parallel universe, I, fanfic author, made up" is not a terribly good argument, Zoat. As I said, Sinclair's desires are only one of the reasons, but as for why, perhaps he just wanted to make ReAnimen without bothering to go through bureaucracy.

 

[Mr Zoat]

"Something that never happened in canon happened in the parallel universe, I, fanfic author, made up" is not a terribly good argument, Zoat. As I said, Sinclair's desires are only one of the reasons, but as for why, perhaps he just wanted to make ReAnimen without bothering to go through bureaucracy.

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It's not a good argument objectively, but it's a pretty good one if you're the character who lived through it.

 

[Agumentic]

It's not a good argument objectively, but it's a pretty good one if you're the character who lived through it.

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Sure, but there can be a million differences between parallel universes that make his argument invalid. Sinclair here could be more rational, teleportation system could be better protected, GDA might well know how to make ReAnimen without Sinclair and just keeps him for his expertise and so on and so forth. I'm not saying it's not in character, but Mark is not going to be a debate club star any soon either.

 

[Doccer]

...

The version in the SI's timeline had exactly the same things, and did that. It already happened. If you think that Sinclair is rational, why didn't he just walk up to a G.D.A. office and ask for a grant before doing any of that?

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Not that you are wrong, but isn't the GDA supposed to be 'secret'?
How many actually know they exist?

 

[Mr Zoat]

Sure, but there can be a million differences between parallel universes that make his argument invalid. Sinclair here could be more rational, teleportation system could be better protected, GDA might well know how to make ReAnimen without Sinclair and just keeps him for his expertise and so on and so forth.

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True, but from what he's seen it looks really similar. Given the choice between 'Sinclair hasn't taken his shot yet' and 'despite butchering people to make his prototypes, this one is actually manageable', he went for the former.

I'm not saying it's not in character, but Mark is not going to be a debate club star any soon either.

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No, he's busy ruling the world and demonstrating the actual result of a pen vs sword fight.

Not that you are wrong, but isn't the GDA supposed to be 'secret'?
How many actually know they exist?

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I don't think so? Their soldiers move around in public, they appear to be responsible for supervillain containment generally and they employ a lot of people. I doubt that their exact function is widely known, but I can't see how their existence is.

 

[Bolo]

Nobody else worried/horrified about the crippled Invincibles that are going to be slowly murdered for parts/turned into zombiebots?
While yeah, bad guys but between needing more Intel and possibly cloning to make more superpowerd people, going straight for the killing seems over the top.
Cecil is over his head and needs to train a replacement. He can't be objective anymore.

 

[Darko]

don't think so? Their soldiers move around in public, they appear to be responsible for supervillain containment generally and they employ a lot of people. I doubt that their exact function is widely known, but I can't see how their existence is

Click to shrink...

In the comics Cecil mentioned that not even the CIA knows about him.

It's possible that civilians and some government officials just think that they're something like a special SWAT unit, but not much more than that.

While yeah, bad guys but between needing more Intel and possibly cloning to make more superpowerd people, going straight for the killing seems over the top

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Aside from the Maulers I don't think anyone has shown any skills at cloning people.

Cecil is over his head and needs to train a replacement. He can't be objective anymore

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I doubt anyone could be objective after what the Invincibles did to Earth.

 

[Bolo]

That's the point of the job. To safe guard Earth, not try and kill a someone who is "helping" and alienate your other hero "weapon" in the process.
Stop the active threats ,save lives and don't make more enemies intill you've dealt with the ones killing.
Plan for a double cross, sure make sense. Save your strength and get more data on weakness and sure.
But the name of the game is to have a Plan and be ready to act not just react.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Nobody else worried/horrified about the crippled Invincibles that are going to be slowly murdered for parts/turned into zombiebots?
While yeah, bad guys but between needing more Intel and possibly cloning to make more superpowerd people, going straight for the killing seems over the top.

Click to shrink...

That was an assumption. Based on what he did with Conquest, they're probably just going to be interrogated. The G.D.A. is very good at 'converting' supervillains to work for them. No details are provided on how exactly that works, but from an external viewpoint it looks really dodgy.

Cecil is over his head and needs to train a replacement. He can't be objective anymore.

Click to shrink...

I was thinking that it would work better if he promoted a deputy director to handle conventional superheroes while he handled the black ops ruthless bastards stuff. The one time I saw him completely fail was when he was unable to comprehend why Invincible wasn't happy about Sinclair and Darkwing 2 working with the G.D.A.. He could have come up with a reasonable argument, but totally failed to do so.

In the comics Cecil mentioned that not even the CIA knows about him.

It's possible that civilians and some government officials just think that they're something like a special SWAT unit, but not much more than that.

Click to shrink...

That's possible, except that an inexperienced superhero like Bulletproof or Shapesmith could join the Guardians of the Globe and then be in a room with him.

 

[Agumentic]

The one time I saw him completely fail was when he was unable to comprehend why Invincible wasn't happy about Sinclair and Darkwing 2 working with the G.D.A.. He could have come up with a reasonable argument, but totally failed to do so.

Click to shrink...

I think it's his big character flaw that when he is afraid, he responds by attempting to take control of the situation by any means necessary, without really considering whether there are better options.

 

[Darko]

I was thinking that it would work better if he promoted a deputy director to handle conventional superheroes while he handled the black ops ruthless bastards stuff. The one time I saw him completely fail was when he was unable to comprehend why Invincible wasn't happy about Sinclair and Darkwing 2 working with the G.D.A.. He could have come up with a reasonable argument, but totally failed to do so

Click to shrink...

I think that's connected to his past.

We know that he used to be like Mark and didn't want murderers to be given a second chance.

Then his ideals sent him to prison where he had to work with murderers if he wanted to live.

Him berating Mark was basically him berating his younger self.

That's possible, except that an inexperienced superhero like Bulletproof or Shapesmith could join the Guardians of the Globe and then be in a room with him.

Click to shrink...

Overseeing the Guardians seems to have been one of his duties, so it makes sense that they'd know about him.

I think it's his big character flaw that when he is afraid, he responds by attempting to take control of the situation by any means necessary, without really considering whether there are better options

Click to shrink...

That could have been a habit he picked up in prison.

If he didn't take control in bad situations then he'd be dead.

 

[Mr Zoat]

I think that's connected to his past.

We know that he used to be like Mark and didn't want murderers to be given a second chance.

Then his ideals sent him to prison where he had to work with murderers if he wanted to live.

Him berating Mark was basically him berating his younger self.

Click to shrink...

My problem with that whole sequence is that we're never shown 1) how the crazy death cultists he killed got rehabilitated 2) how he survived in prison and took control 3) what the modern G.D.A. does in situations like that. There's a big difference between 'Darkwing 2 is now a Guardian' and 'Darkwing 2 gets let out occasionally under tight supervision'. Or 'they said they felt real bad' and 'we gave them new brains'.

Overseeing the Guardians seems to have been one of his duties, so it makes sense that they'd know about him.

Click to shrink...

Yes, but the requirement for knowing that he exists isn't 'have served for years and occupied a major role in Earth's superhuman defence'. Based on Shapesmith knowing, it's 'has slightly above average power and said yes'.

That could have been a habit he picked up in prison.

If he didn't take control in bad situations then he'd be dead.

Click to shrink...

Which is true, except that while he was in prison there shouldn't have been any way for him to control anything. They skipped showing it because what rationally should have happened is that the big guy should have killed him.

 

[Darko]

how the crazy death cultists he killed got rehabilitated 2)

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I'm guessing that experiencing their little skin melting gas and seeing that there's no paradise after that got them to seriously rethink their beliefs.

Yes, but the requirement for knowing that he exists isn't 'have served for years and occupied a major role in Earth's superhuman defence'. Based on Shapesmith knowing, it's 'has slightly above average power and said yes'.

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The other Guardians, like Immortal and Robot, already knew about him, so it would make sense that he'd introduce himself to the rest to avoid any confusion.

Which is true, except that while he was in prison there shouldn't have been any way for him to control anything. They skipped showing it because what rationally should have happened is that the big guy should have killed him

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Unless Cecil just befriended him or manipulated him and later used him as muscle to get control over the rest.

You don't necessarily need to be the strongest guy in the room to be in charge.

It's also possible that that's how he saw the usefulness of rehabilitation.

When he showed up one prisoner seemed to have been trying to kill his cellmate.

A few years later they're reading books together.

 

[Mr Zoat]

I'm guessing that experiencing their little skin melting gas and seeing that there's no paradise after that got them to seriously rethink their beliefs.

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They were smiling as they set it off, so I doubt it.

The other Guardians, like Immortal and Robot, already knew about him, so it would make sense that he'd introduce himself to the rest to avoid any confusion.

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So he just doesn't work with the C.I.A.? That seems like it could cause problems.

Unless Cecil just befriended him or manipulated him and later used him as muscle to get control over the rest.

You don't necessarily need to be the strongest guy in the room to be in charge.

It's also possible that that's how he saw the usefulness of rehabilitation.

When he showed up one prisoner seemed to have been trying to kill his cellmate.

A few years later they're reading books together.

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'It just works' is never a good answer, particularly when it's plot-significant. There are several things that he could have done, which might inform the way he treats Mark later.