With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Agumentic]

I don't remember this individual showing up, when did that happen?

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Trivialities, part 2.

 

[Duke Long]

"But the strategic planning part. I know that I argued for redundancy, and, yes, two people is an improvement on one, but it looks like we're building a system that's one unlucky dose of Smilex away from being run by someone who thinks that humans would be better off it they didn't have to waste time eating."

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'if'

 

[Mr Zoat]

Though most of the proceeds get donated to charity, I would assume.

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No, he doesn't mean that they charge more. He means that if you work out what it costs to keep the Justice League operating for that amount of time, it's almost always more.

Huh. That would be interesting, especially given that he'd have to commute form his world.

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from

Well, finally someone told him straight out, 'talk to Batman.' The question is whether that'll ease his worries, or give him new ones. As for involving Lex in League oversight... It might give him an outlet for his world domination urges. Or he might fool himself into being a backstabbing moron and working to undermine the League from within... And no-one will know which until he's offered the shot.

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In the comics, he actually sponsored Aztek with a view to putting him in charge of a version of the Justice League that he controlled.

'if'

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Thank you, corrected.

 

[Wivk]

Right now faith in government is at an all time low and faith in the league is high. But once the league is in charge everything wrong will be directly their fault so trust in them will start dropping off pretty fast.

 

[WereDragon]

That's... really anti-complementary. Like grievously so, I think.

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Which is exactly how it was intended and they both know that. Paul deciding to 'take matters into his own hands' is one of the League's big worries.

 

[CTrees]

Turn the world into a police state? Not really. If only because we don't have the manpower."

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Did OL forget about Brother Eye in the comics? Lack of manpower isn't really a problem when Batman is sufficiently motivated and paranoid. And wasn't there just an OMAC (or OMAC-variant) like, a couple arcs ago?

 

[Mr Zoat]

Did OL forget about Brother Eye in the comics? Lack of manpower isn't really a problem when Batman is sufficiently motivated and paranoid. And wasn't there just an OMAC (or OMAC-variant) like, a couple arcs ago?

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No...

But.

How many people actually remember the short-lived One Man Army Corp comic, compared to the mind control thrall robot version? Particularly given that the thrall version has already featured as being used by Owlman. And that version of Brother Eye was a covert anti-metahuman measure, which isn't what's happening here.

 

[Signaller]

Isn't Dox the smartest person OL knows? What's his take on it? I think the last time they spoke was just after Atlantis emerged?

 

[Mr Zoat]

Isn't Dox the smartest person OL knows? What's his take on it? I think the last time they spoke was just after Atlantis emerged?

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Since it's not really Orange Lantern Corps business, the SI hasn't asked him.

 

[Steelplaza]

"-I'll talk it through with him. Thank you. I appreciate you taking the time to talk to me."

"I think everyone on the League would make time for you, Paul."

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That's... really anti-complementary. Like grievously so, I think.

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You could take it as a slight against OL, but- I've been rereading the whole Antilife story arc, and I feel like there's something that's kind of slid through the cracks because no one made a big deal of it.

The SI saved the world. No one else had a plan against the antilife. No one even had an idea for a plan, as far as I can tell. The closest we see is the guy who wanted to make the giant mutated Tiger Shark fight Finality Man, which didn't work but at least it was an attempt. The SI swept in with his "gather one of every power ring color" plan, personally did the recruiting, brought in what was needed, and helped execute the mission. I know it's like, hah-hah, the Justice League saves the world all the time, but the Justice League was stuck!

I think Paul, but also a lot of readers in the thread, are underestimating the amount of goodwill Paul has banked right now. It's not just "oh hah-hah that Orange Lantern always causes trouble". People on the Justice League genuinely feel like they owe him bigly, and if makes a request or has something to talk about they will indeed make time for it. I mean, they also know he causes trouble, but he also solves trouble, like he's early Loki or something.

 

[CrazyNoVa]

If nothing else, Batman does have a family to knock some sense into his Ring-shielded head. On any or all of those points.

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Assuming that he even bothers listening to them in the first place. Whenever Batman is at his most distrustful and paranoid, he tends to ignore the people around him and automatically assumes that he knows better than everyone about everything, no matter how much it comes back to bite him in the rear.

An apt analogy, but the problem is, the people being given the reins aren't inclined to act in their own interests. They're generally not the sort of person to want to rule the world, no matter how much easier it would make some things.

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Yes, their hearts are in the right place and we know that they wouldn't abuse their power for petty or selfish reasons, but heroism alone doesn't make you qualified to be a leader or a politician.

Remember, up until the anti-life crisis, most of the JLA members were just a bunch of regular people in costumes who were doing their best to fight crime and make a difference. People with extraordinary skills and abilities, yes, but still regular people at their core. They signed up to fight crime and protect the world, but they never expected that that they would have to rule it, nor were they prepared for such a colossal task either. The fact that the Justice League didn't even realize that they were taking over the world until Paul told them just reinforces that point.

Think of it like this: In real life, if we took a bunch of doctors, policemen and firefighters, and then asked them to rule the city they live in, how well do you think they would do? The answer is that they probably wouldn't do very well, because while they would do a good job at protecting people, they probably wouldn't handle the bureaucracy or the economy all that well, because they would likely lack the proper skills and education to do so. The same principle applies here: Sure, we know that the Justice League wouldn't abuse their power for stupid or selfish reasons, but that's only one part of what it takes to be a good ruler. You can't rule the world through good intentions alone.

And yes, I know that theoretically, Batman would probably be smart and knowledgeable enough to do the job, but considering that he's obviously not mentally stable right now, and that he's overworking himself, we don't know how that might impact his efficiency as a leader, or if there may be other side-effects we don't know about. Just saying, you can't blame Paul for being concerned for Batman's mental state, especially since Paul is the one who mindscrewed Batman in the first place.

You could take it as a slight against OL, but- I've been rereading the whole Antilife story arc, and I feel like there's something that's kind of slid through the cracks because no one made a big deal of it.

The SI saved the world. No one else had a plan against the antilife. No one even had an idea for a plan, as far as I can tell. The closest we see is the guy who wanted to make the giant mutated Tiger Shark fight Finality Man, which didn't work but at least it was an attempt. The SI swept in with his "gather one of every power ring color" plan, personally did the recruiting, brought in what was needed, and helped execute the mission. I know it's like, hah-hah, the Justice League saves the world all the time, but the Justice League was stuck!

I think Paul, but also a lot of readers in the thread, are underestimating the amount of goodwill Paul has banked right now. It's not just "oh hah-hah that Orange Lantern always causes trouble". People on the Justice League genuinely feel like they owe him bigly, and if makes a request or has something to talk about they will indeed make time for it. I mean, they also know he causes trouble, but he also solves trouble, like he's early Loki or something.

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To be fair, we usually only see the story from Paul's perspective, so we don't really know how the JLA feels about him right now.

Although, I do sometimes wish that we'd get a post or two from their perpective to see what they think of Paul.

No...

But.

How many people actually remember the short-lived One Man Army Corp comic, compared to the mind control thrall robot version? Particularly given that the thrall version has already featured as being used by Owlman. And that version of Brother Eye was a covert anti-metahuman measure, which isn't what's happening here.

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To be fair, I DID bring it up a while ago when I asked you about the possibility of Paul making his own army of OMACS for L.E.G.I.O.N. uses, although I don't know if you remember.

 

[hkim]

Clark Kent with the Department of Common Sense interrupt. Very nice!

 

[Mr Zoat]

To be fair, I DID bring it up a while ago when I asked you about the possibility of Paul making his own army of OMACS for L.E.G.I.O.N. uses, although I don't know if you remember.

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I frequently forget what I've written, much less what anyone else writes.

 

[Mr Zoat]

I recall that a primary school teacher of mine once remarked that supply teachers generally only learned the name of the badly behaved children.

@rthomas2, I fear that I recognised your name.

 

[hkim]

That's kind of impressive given that he hasn't posted since 2021 .. what did he do?

 

[CrazyNoVa]

I frequently forget what I've written, much less what anyone else writes.

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Yeah, I figured as much. Which is perfectly fair, given that you've been doing this for well over a decade. I guess you wouldn't remember everyone unless they did something truly outstanding that would make them stand out. For example, there was I want to see you smile by Whiteeyes. You must have really liked that story, since you did write a crossover where Future Paragon visits Teal Lantern's world.

I recall that a primary school teacher of mine once remarked that supply teachers generally only learned the name of the badly behaved children.

@rthomas2, I fear that I recognised your name.

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That's kind of impressive given that he hasn't posted since 2021 .. what did he do?

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I'm sorry, who? I'm afraid that I'm not familiar with the name.

 

[Darko]

I'm sorry, who? I'm afraid that I'm not familiar with the name

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They posted in the story only thread.

 

[PDV]

How many people actually remember the short-lived One Man Army Corp comic, compared to the mind control thrall robot version?

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The people who learn about the bizarrities of comics mostly from wikis and fanfic rather than reading the originals. (Raises hand.)

 

[Mr Zoat]

For example, there was I want to see you smile by Whiteeyes. You must have really liked that story, since you did write a crossover where Future Paragon visits Teal Lantern's world.

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Joyful being!

 

[Jirachi]

"No."

"Okay. So what's the problem?"

"It gives us far too much power indefinitely. And even if it wasn't being organised through the League, it's still too much power going to any one place."

He frowns, puzzled. "I.. suppose it's a little expansive, but it only really covers a lot of the things we've been doing anyway. Would you really want to undo all the work you've been doing in Hub City?"
[...]

"But the strategic planning part. I know that I argued for redundancy, and, yes, two people is an improvement on one, but it looks like we're building a system that's one unlucky dose of Smilex away from being run by someone who thinks that humans would be better off if they didn't have to waste time eating."

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I do think that there's also the more pragmatic problem that the 'tactical overwatch' role and the 'strategic administrator' roles of the justice league are kind of compressed to batman and mister atom - there'd probably be a pretty significant dropoff in overwatch quality if either of them were rendered unfit, though that's less of a philosphical issue.

"No. I'm not putting Lex Luthor in charge of the whole world."

"So we are putting someone in charge of the world?"

"I trust Batman not to use it like that. And-." He visibly ponders his next statement. "And I trust Mister Atom to realise that he isn't ready to rule the world, because I don't think he'd have agreed to join the Justice League if he hadn't. I cannot say the same about Lex Luthor."

"Anti-matter Lex Luthor isn't that bad."

Kal-El sighs. "No. He is, he's just on our side. He's every bit as ruthless and controlling as our Lex, he just does more to help people with it."

"Um." That's… News to me. "How..? Do you..?"

"We were considering offering him League membership, so we did an interview. He was surprisingly open about it."

I frown. "He… Could probably-."

He holds up his right hand to forestall my objection. "We used Diana's lasso. I'm pretty sure he couldn't fake that."

Ah… No. If he was giving answers and the lasso was active, then he wasn't lying. "I'm pleased that you thought to ask like that. Is that a standard check now?"

"Ah…" Kal-El looks a little self-conscious. "He is a Lex Luthor."

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This is maybe a little unfair - I would expect the league to at least consider something like this for new applicants - and I wouldn't be suprised if Diana's divine powers would be able to catch more indirect misleading attempts, after her semi-ascension. But yes, they still haven't figured out a routine operational way to deal with this.

"Work himself to death? Go back to managing a huge part of the League by himself causing the same single point of failure issue it had before? Yes. Turn the world into a police state? Not really. If only because we don't have the manpower."

"I don't think he'd do that anyway."

"I didn't think Alan would do it anyway, and then I went a few parallel universes sideways and look what I found! But…" I raise my hands theatrically. "In the interest of maintaining better communication channels and avoiding another Nabu incident-"

"You said it, not me."

"-I'll talk it through with him. Thank you. I appreciate you taking the time to talk to me."

"I think everyone on the League would make time for you, Paul."

I smile blackly. I suppose that they would. "How's Ak-Var been getting on?"

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Wonder if he's game to looking into the gods overseeing things in the thaumosphere model? If nothing else might be worthwhile asking Athena for a consult about how she'd be willing to help.
Glad he's not doomering too much, even if he's pretty clearly on a bit of a dejected train of thought.
I'm not sure if it's better or worse that batman is overworking himself but with a yellow power ring now - it probably has the sleep mitigation function that might help more then just being surgical with nap timing and such, but I could also easily see him getting dependent on it.
Honestly another angle on the batman thing is that if his time is so valuable and everything is oriented around being able to get his cognitive labour done, he should ask again about garricking him or something - it should be reliably safe, it doesn't seem to super have a problem in space, and it could dramatically help with the effective workload, perhaps?