• The site has now migrated to Xenforo 2. If you see any issues with the forum operation, please post them in the feedback thread.
  • An addendum to Rule 3 regarding fan-translated works of things such as Web Novels has been made. Please see here for details.
  • There is currently an issue logging in with the full Email Address For the time being, please use just your Username to login, not your full email address.
  • Due to issues with external spam filters, QQ is currently unable to send any mail to Microsoft E-mail addresses. This includes any account at live.com, hotmail.com or msn.com. Signing up to the forum with one of these addresses will result in your verification E-mail never arriving. For best results, please use a different E-mail provider for your QQ address.
  • For prospective new members, a word of warning: don't use common names like Dennis, Simon, or Kenny if you decide to create an account. Spammers have used them all before you and gotten those names flagged in the anti-spam databases. Your account registration will be rejected because of it.
  • Since it has happened MULTIPLE times now, I want to be very clear about this. You do not get to abandon an account and create a new one. You do not get to pass an account to someone else and create a new one. If you do so anyway, you will be banned for creating sockpuppets.
  • Due to the actions of particularly persistent spammers and trolls, we will be banning disposable email addresses from today onward.
  • The rules regarding NSFW links have been updated. See here for details.

With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

OL just needs to go talk to more of the Justice league and tell them that the JL becoming supreme overlords is bad and that is what is effectively happening with this legislation. Most of them are good people and probably wouldn't want this level of accidental tyranny to happen.
 
"Did it count Reconstruction?"

"I'm sorry, I didn't really study the American Civil War."
'count during the Reconstruction?'?
But I too have not really studied the American Civil War.

We saw previously that Luthor was angry about failing to recruit Oh El for the Light (because of the incompetence of his allies, I think?). I'm guessing that he sees this as a new opportunity.
 
I'm pretty sure this is Luthor just navigating the conversation as best he can, then he will share the info with his Light 'pen pals' and who knows what are they going to do after that.
 
This might be Luthor not interrupting an enemy when he's making a mistake
Absolutely. 100%.

He's probably secretly thrilled.

The world is trying to rebuild, which serves him just fine as his power depends on the world functioning. He can probably gain influence all over the place just by helping people out. And why would the league stop him from helping? It would look horrible if they did.

If he does essentially legit actions he doesn't have to worry about the league at all. Unless things go insanely off the rails there isn't a big conspiracy to actually take over the world or rule with a iron fist.

It sets precedent for a group to legitimately take over the world after a crisis.

All they need to do is convince the world that the justice league isn't the group to be trusted with that and another group is.

If the light gain enough legitimate influence it wouldn't be hard to turn the world against the league if it does start to look in anyway oppressive. Media spin here, leaks over there, a staged negative photo op at a event.

So the world gets rebuilt, the foundation is laid for a future takeover, and the justice league while trying to help sets itself up for the eventual loss of public opinion.

All Luther has to do is be a brilliant businessman and seize every opportunity to legitimately expand his reach and influence. And he would do that anyway.
 
10th July 2013
07:18 GMT -5


"Hm."

Mister Luthor turns the page, eyes scanning swiftly across the legal text with my own notes warranting only a brief frown.
A very subdued reaction, but he does have a hell of a poker face. I bet to empathic vision, he'd be lit up red and golden yellow, with a hint of jealous orange, all under a veneer of absolute self-control.

"Am I supposed to be seeing this?"

"I'll be mildly surprised and a little disappointed if you hadn't already seen it."
A good question. Let's hope Batman doesn't ask you about it if Lex makes any minor adjustments to his policies.

That warrants a faint smile.

"I was aware that a piece of legislation like this was passing through the legislatures of various countries. I hadn't yet seen the final wording."
Ah, like most people, from the sound of it. Cat Grant also seemed to only have the basic summary of it.

"I can't promise that this is the final wording. The most I can say for sure is that a lot of places had it labelled as a final draft."

"Still."

"No one told me not to show it to you."
And if Lex does take any action because of it, at least OL will know he's taking advantage of that insider information.

"I suppose that I shouldn't be surprised; you did warn the world of the Justice League's aim to use this crisis to take over the world."

"That wasn't exactly what I said."
To wit: "I'm not supposed to talk about the Justice League taking over the world' being the exact wording. But given Lex's own assumptions, it's an easy interpretation.

"But it was what you were warning of; the human species sleepwalking into a state of effective Justice League rule."

"Er-rh…""Yes.""Though… Most of the Justice League aren't actually.. involved in planning. They've-. The predominant opinion appears to be that it's a useful official confirmation that they're doing the right thing and a clarification of the extent of their powers."
The problem is that most of them are not lawyers, and thus really proficient in understanding any double-speak in the text. I wonder if Icon has seen this, and what he'd make of it, alien perspective or not. Isn't his civilian identity a lawyer, after all?

"I'm not sure whether to be relieved or disappointed."

"How do you mean?"
At how easy it seems to have been to convince Humanity to hand over their sovereignty?

"Should I be relieved that any conspiracy is limited to a small number of people and as such can be resolved by Justice League members… Who according to this are the only people who legally can, or should I be disappointed that all it took for humanity to grant total control to our new overlords was the actions of a handful at a time or crisis?"
And from the sound of it, even most of the League doesn't fully realise what whoever wrote this has managed to do.

"If I knew what to do about it, then I wouldn't be talking to you."

"I appreciate the vote of confidence, but at this point there's very little I can do. Under normal circumstances there would be all manner of legal mechanisms for preventing this from gaining force of law in the United States. Or even to simply delay it. As things stand… Are you aware of the various constitutional violations which took place during the American Civil War?"
Ah, no opportunity to leverage votes via public opinion, eh? Or more under-the-table methods...

"Not in detail."

"Habeas corpus was formally suspended, but Lincoln also de facto abolished freedom of expression, and his action in issuing the Emancipation Proclamation wasn't in accordance with the law either. The sad fact is that there's legal precedent in America for this sort of law in times of crisis."
As listed here, for example, as just one options set... Fortunately, they generally write enough checks and balances into this sort of thing to prevent abuse, I would hope?

"Does that count now?"

"Did it count Reconstruction?"

"I'm sorry, I didn't really study the American Civil War."
Different country, of course. OL might have learned more about the English Civil Wars than he would have the American one.

"Ah. Well, the answer is 'yes'. Or, rather, the answer is what those in power agree it to be. And at the moment, those people dance to the Justice League's tune." He rests his hands on the paperwork, looking directly at me. "You're not looking forward to it?"

"No. I-. I was when all I had was the original wording. It was just a slight expansion of the Justice League's charter responsibilities. It was a-. A sign that the world's governments were starting to function again."
And then someone seems to have added more than a few edits once people stopped looking closely at it, it appears.

"I assume that most of these functions will be exercised by Batman."

"Batman and Mister Atom. Now, I like Mister Atom, but he isn't ready to command human civilisation."
Not nearly enough understanding of human nature, certainly. Though i half suspect if he really tried to understand humans, it'd make him a little upset or annoyed at our illogicality...

"No concerns about Batman?"

"I-. Sort of. Maybe. I don't think I'm.. really… I don't think I'm a good person to judge him."
Not least because you made him this way. At least on the 'exposed to severe fear and given a fear-based Power Ring.'

"You don't think that he or Mister Atom would act maliciously with his new authority?"

"No. I can see Mister Atom requiring that all grades of nuclear waste be handed over to him, but that's a good thing for humanity so I don't really care."
Person's gotta 'eat', so to speak.

"Wouldn't that make him more powerful?"

"Not to a strategically significant degree." He goes back to reading it. "I thought you'd be a bit more…"
Supreme poker face. He's not the sort to start getting angry or panicking over something like this... Yet.

"Did you think I'd rend my garments?" He smiles faintly. "Tear my hair out, perhaps?"

"I was expecting a denunciation and some strong language."

"Why is it that you're so concerned? You've worked with Batman for years. Surely you have a degree of confidence in his decisions?"
Besides, Lex can do his ranting and raving in the relative privacy of the Light's meeting rooms.

"I-." I don't.. really want to tell Lex Luthor about… What I did to Batman's brain. It's not shame, though I do feel ashamed. It's how badly it would undermine Batman when he's doing something that the people I trust the most think won't be a problem. "I don't know if you've noticed, but he's acquired a yellow power ring."
I suspect the faint glowing thing would have clued him in, unless Bats keeps it to a very low burn.

"I was aware."

"Power rings encourage particular mindsets. I'm concerned that constantly focusing on inspiring fear might be affecting him adversely. Or… Just… Encouraging him to think about things in terms of fear more than he usually would."
Just as he was starting to heal, too. Good work, OL. 😏

"I suppose that would explain why he abandoned the short-lived grey and blue costume."

I nod. "So, I.. realise that you'll need more time to go through it all, but do you have any… Advice?"
Pity we didn't get to see more of that suit. Would bring back some nice memories of Batman '66 and the Neal Adams era. Or the modern 'Brave and the Bold' cartoon that homaged so much of it.

"Let it happen." I blink. "You won't be able to stop it at this stage, and you may gain some benefit from it. In the medium term, I hope that people will come to understand that living under this system is simply a more subtle form of oppression."

I huff with amusement. "That's a surprisingly optimistic thing for you to say."
Probably be easier to get the League to recognise the matter after the fact and have them dismantle it themselves.

He shrugs. "And if I'm wrong, then I'm wrong about human nature and I'll have to rethink a great many things."

"That… Sounds a bit accelerationist."
To be fair, if he's always disappointed, then his mood can't sink any lower.

"You're complaining about heading towards danger?" He makes a comedically exaggerated frown, smiling as he does so. "Remind me again what your job is?"

"I don't mind danger for me, it's dumping it on everyone else that I'm not happy about." I sigh. "But I can't think of anyone else to talk to about it, and there's no smoking gun, so… Alright."
And confronting batman is still a little beyond his willingness to poke his nose in.

"If it puts your mind at ease, I'm perfectly happy to discuss any further developments with you. If you think that a second opinion would be helpful."

I nod, reluctantly. "Thank you. I suspect that it will."
And it can let Lex try and nudge OL away from the League and perhaps lead him into the light... I mean, there's not much chance of it, but if it makes him feel clever...

I bet Lex is inwardly fuming at the injustice of the League pulling this off so easily and crowing at the chance to subvert at least one League affiliate. And as others have said, he's smart enough not to interrupt his enemies making mistakes. He's probably already making plans on how to exploit this for the Light's benefit.
 
I do hope OL asks a few others for their opinions instead of stopping at Lex Luthor.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top