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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Reader mode
Mr Zoat said:
Just watched the most recent episode.

Apparently, Metron 16 stole credit for inventing Mother Boxes.

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Does this episode also possibly influence possible romantic storylines with Kaldur? Because I actually do like the idea of him and Canis together once the latter learns to be a bit less Apokaliptish.
 
Chojin Patriarch said:
I hope you were jamming...
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From what immediately follows - he wasn't, and he deliberately continued not jamming, because everything he says after that is pretty well intended as a 'hey, you, listening, I know you're listening, I'm letting you know I know, and you should probably consider the fact that since these guys so epically failed your prospects just had '9mm hemorrhage' rocket up the list, just a thought...' speech.
 
BR549 said:
From what immediately follows - he wasn't, and he deliberately continued not jamming, because everything he says after that is pretty well intended as a 'hey, you, listening, I know you're listening, I'm letting you know I know, and you should probably consider the fact that since these guys so epically failed your prospects just had '9mm hemorrhage' rocket up the list, just a thought...' speech.
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Indeed, on re-reading, it does look that way. The question is, what response will those listening have? Panic, or anger...
 
DrThoth said:
Does this episode also possibly influence possible romantic storylines with Kaldur? Because I actually do like the idea of him and Canis together once the latter learns to be a bit less Apokaliptish.
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Canis isn't really looking for a long term relationship. Possibly ever. His artistic passions are his life.
 
doug89 said:
Since exactly what the War Hounds are and how they were created has shifted over time, when exactly on that slippery slope did the Lanterns evaluate and judge the practice?
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Given that there's one Lantern for an entire Sector of space? Probably somewhere on the order of never.
 
Bramble Thorn said:
Well, normally you would have to have long internal moral debates about reordering someone's core values before you do it. But sometimes I think just being fair is sufficient. If they are value hacking the War Dogs children, accept that as a tacit admission if their acceptance of value hacking as legitimate. This sounds like a problem that could be solved by branding everyone tangentially related to the affair, and their bosses and bosses until you reach the top. Give everyone branded the War Dog Honor Programming (minus the blind spot about someone giving you orders possibly being dishonorable) the orphans got.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander. And hopefully, just maybe stamp out some of the pervasive corruption. Seems like it would have some high potential payoff for a low implementation cost.
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That would work in the short term. However I suspect that the solution you propose would start to fall apart as soon as OL left. The people he branded would find it difficult to remain in power, both because "this guys motivations are being controlled by an alien" is going to make people nervous and because honorable politicians are at a severe disadvantage to dishonorable ones.
 
Ganurath said:
It could be he actually did do it in this setting, with the normal inventor being cut out due to being too obscure of a character to be included in Young Justice.
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Well, in the New Earth Mythos, Darkseid tempted Metron with the "Element X" discovered by Himon to create devices with which the Tyrant-god could invade New Genesis.

Metron's curiosity superseded any moral considerations, and as a result he was partially responsible for the ensuing war between New Genesis and Apokolips, (which apart from his attitude is probably a MAJOR factor as to why Bear would punch him).

In this case, it could be that Metron simply improved upon Himon's tech and was the sole creator of Fatherbox, while Motherbox was entirely Himon's brainchild.
 
Well, they are lucky Oh El is more inhuman nowadays, or he would have made a revolution already.

Not only brainwashed child soldiers, but lambs to the slaughter. Want to retire? Die Got crippled? Die. Want to form a family? Die.

This makes 1984 (the book) look like a paradise in comparison.
 
Pinklestia said:
Well, they are lucky Oh El is more inhuman nowadays, or he would have made a revolution already.

Not only brainwashed child soldiers, but lambs to the slaughter. Want to retire? Die Got crippled? Die. Want to form a family? Die.

This makes 1984 (the book) look like a paradise in comparison.
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No, in 1984 they'd torture them first.
 
Tzeentch said:
Metron 16 is an asshole. JOY.

He also has horrible taste in makeup.
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You don't need to include that 16 there, being an asshole is the default characterization of Metron.

For example in the series Bug! that is a sequel to Cosmic Odyssey starring Forager 1, the bad guy seemed to be Chagra, Atlas' mentor, but nope, it was Metron being an asshole.
 
Tzeentch said:
Well, in the New Earth Mythos, Darkseid tempted Metron with the "Element X" discovered by Himon to create devices with which the Tyrant-god could invade New Genesis.

Metron's curiosity superseded any moral considerations, and as a result he was partially responsible for the ensuing war between New Genesis and Apokolips, (which apart from his attitude is probably a MAJOR factor as to why Bear would punch him).

In this case, it could be that Metron simply improved upon Himon's tech and was the sole creator of Fatherbox, while Motherbox was entirely Himon's brainchild.
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I was taking the piss; nobody's too obscure for Young Justice.
 
Realigned (part 12)
  • Threadmarks
    • 6th February
    17:18 GMT

    Guy's eyes narrow.

    "Doin'… What?"

    "She worked on the neural programming system. She… Wanted to develop something that could be used in schools, but… That wasn't what the government was funding her for. The data implanting system they… Well, so far as I know that they still use, that was largely her work. I think that the official record of her trial lists that as the reason why she was murdered."

    Ring, one way transmit to Xalitan Xor.

    Compliance.

    "She was murdered by a former War Hound named Xalitan Xor, wasn't she? Personal revenge seems rather contrary to how everyone's been telling me they're programmed to think."

    "Xalitan… None of them mind what was done to them. Since few of them remember ever being anything else… If you or I were forced into a strange body, had our minds reprogrammed and then were made to fight for a government that treated us with contempt, we would resent it. They were taught in such a way that they wouldn't. Some… The ones who had the early versions of the program, went mad when they kept getting contradictory instructions. But Xalitan didn't.. have that problem. My mother could have transplanted his brain herself and he wouldn't have borne a grudge about it."

    "You believe that he was innocent?"

    "Of course he was innocent." She frowns slightly. "I don't know why they bothered with the show trial. Father had to disavow him of course. He wouldn't let me go anywhere near the trial in case I tried to argue in Xalitan's favour."

    "'Had to'?"

    "Come on, Guy. The fix was in. Everyone who could change the situation had come to terms. All Jaggar Ton could have done is cut his own throat shaving." I glance at Onigar. "And probably hers as well."

    "Father tried to convince me.. that Xalitan might have done it. Or perhaps he was trying to convince himself. Father did not become rich by being a scrupulously honest man, but… He did not… Not routinely betray his employees like that."

    "So… It wasn't even anything to do with Xalitan being a War Hound who was succeeding outside of the military?"

    "I don't know. I imagine that was convenient. By definition, War Hounds don't have family to cause a fuss when they 'disappear'." She shakes her head. "Perhaps he would have been disappeared in a few years anyway, but… I would have liked to have been able to spend more time with him."

    "Did they tell you what happened-?"

    "The ship he was being transported on malfunctioned and was.. probably lost with all hands. That most likely was an accident. I doubt they would have considered him to be worth the price of a ship and a trained crew."

    "So what did your mom do that made your government wanna kill her?"

    Onigar shakes her head. "I don't know. I don't even know for certain that they had her killed. There are a great many parts of our government that can order someone killed."

    "And once she was dead, that was one less loose end." I nod. "We're not here to investigate your mother's death, but if we find anything we'll let you"-. She's looking out of the window. "-know."

    Xalitan Xor is standing on the balcony, and hesitantly brings his fists together at his chest.

    "Xaly?"

    "The ship crashed close to our-"

    Onigar slowly walks toward him, her hands nervously reaching out to him.

    "-homeworld, and I thought that he had the right stuff."

    Xor remains stone-faced for a moment, before lowering his hands and allowing her to place her hands on his chest.

    "I did not know that they threatened you."

    "Of course you didn't."

    "Your father spoke only to curse me."

    "He thought that he had to."

    "He was… Right. If he had told me you were in danger, I would have confessed. I have raged at him, cursed him, when… He wanted to exchange my safety for yours."

    "I'm not safe. No one's safe." Onigar makes a gasping-laugh noise. "You have a power ring."

    "I began working for your father after I risked my life to save his. I began working for my new master when he risked his life to save mine."

    "In the interests of honesty, I wasn't.. really in that much danger. Look, Guy and I can.. go and interrogate these guys somewhere else while you two reconnect..?"

    "No."

    Xor's environmental shield flares.

    "I came here for revenge. On my judges. On Jaggar Ton. I thought this was personal. One man's pride against another's. But it isn't. The mechanisms of the society which surrounds us are… Vast. The dishonourable behaviour I hate… It is not from any one person but from every person. And it is so everywhere that no one even notices!"

    "Illustres." He looks at me. "When you first told me why you were an Orange Lantern, I did not understand what you were trying to tell me. I did not know what the universe being.. wrong could mean. Now, I think that I am beginning to understand. And I do not like it."

    "Alright. What do you plan on doing about it?"

    He delicately steps around Onigar and walks towards the branded War Hounds, leaning down to take hold of the shoulders of the closest. "Why do you do this?"

    "We do as we are ordered."

    "And when you are ordered to attack non-combatants?"

    "We are told that not all fights are so obvious. We fight to preserve the state."

    "Why?"

    "This life makes sense. I serve. I fight. It's what I'm for. Isn't it? You are as we are. Why do you feel differently? Did you not fight who you were told to fight?"

    "I did." Xor removes his hands from the man's shoulders and turns to me. "Illustres, do you have need of them?"

    "There are questions I'd like to ask them. What do you have in mind?"

    "This." He lays his hands on the man's head and-

    Connection lost.

    -orange light flares from his palms as my brand evaporates.

    "Serving the dishonourable with honour undermines that honour. You cannot mark out some small part of the universe and say, 'here is honour' when all the rest is consumed with vice."

    Xor lifts his hands off the defeated War Hound's head and steps back, the other man watching him curiously.

    "You cling to what little you can hold so that you don't see your life running through your fingers. No more. We will not tolerate being treated like this. We will teach the Alignment honour once more or die trying."
     
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    • I remember reading once about the Edge of the Empire. About how someone who exists at the outskirts of a society is best suited to see its flaws and begin reform.

    About how Worf was the perfect man to fix the klingon empire because he was a klingon who grew up outside it, and has an idealized idea of what klingon honor should mean.

    Xor has kind of been pushed into a similar position. He's gained an outside look at his own society, and he sees what went wrong, and how to fix it.
     
    Mr Zoat said:
    "She worked on the neural programming system. She… Wanted to develop something that could be used in schools, but… That wasn't what the government was funding her for. The data implanting system they… Well, so far as I know that they still use, that was largely her work. I think that the official record of her trial lists that as the reason why she was murdered."
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    Not that we can believe any official record at this point...

    Ring, one way transmit to Xalitan Xor.
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    Yes, he needs to hear this.

    "Compliance."
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    Should this be out loud?

    "Of course he was innocent." She frowns slightly. "I don't know why they bothered with the show trial. Father had to disavow him of course. He wouldn't let me go anywhere near the trial in case I tried to argue in Xalitan's favour."
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    More signs of a frame-up.

    All Jaggar Ton could have done is cut this own throat shaving."
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    All Jaggar Ton could have done is cut his own throat shaving."

    "I don't know. I imagine that was convenient. By definition, War Hounds don't have family to cause a fuss when they 'disappear'." She shakes her head. "Perhaps he would have been disappeared in a few years anyway, but… I would have liked to have been able to spend more time with him."
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    I bet even Xor could pick up on that Violet.

    Onigar shakes her head. "I don't know. I don't even know for certain that they had her killed. There are a great many parts of our government that can order someone killed."
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    And isn't that a concerning fact. I bet there're lots of Klingon Promotions via proxy.

    Xalitan Xor is standing on the balcony, and hesitantly brings his fists together at his chest.
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    Oh, boy... Here we go.

    "-homeworld, and I thought that he had the right stuff."
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    OL, they ain't listening right now...

    "He was… Right. If he had hold me you were in danger, I would have confessed. I have raged at him, cursed him, when… He wanted to exchange my safety for yours."
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    Boy, doesn't it just stick in his craw that he had to admit that first part...

    "I came here for revenge. On my judges. On Jaggar Ton. I thought this was personal. One man's pride against another's. But it isn't. The mechanisms of the society which surround us are… Vast. The dishonourable behaviour I hate… It is not from any one person but from every person. And it is so everywhere that no one even notices!"
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    oh, this gonna be good...

    "Illustres." He looks at me. "When you first told me why you were an Orange Lantern, I did not understand what you were trying to tell me. I did not know what the universe being.. wrong could mean. Now, I think that I am beginning to understand. And I do not like it."
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    He's rejoicing that he's found evil now...

    "This life makes sense. I serve. I fight. It's what I'm for. Isn't it? You are as we are. Why do you feel differently? Did you not fight who you were told to fight?"
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    Such a simple life...

    -orange light flares from his palms as my brand evaporates.
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    Oh, my! New technique unlocked!

    "Serving the dishonourable with honour undermines that honour. You cannot mark out some small part of the universe and say, 'here is honour' when all the rest is consumed with vice."
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    Like an island in a sea of shit.

    "You cling to what little you can hold so that you don't see your life running through your fingers. No more. We will not tolerate being treated like this. We will teach the Alignment honour once more or die trying."
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    He is rejoicing, because when he is done, there will be one less evil...

    And the revolution begins. Once again, the Orange Lanterns play a part in a world being turned upside-down... What will the Guardians think?
     
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    This would probably be overly disruptive to the setting to be practical, but I would be very interested in seeing what happens if Guy and OL are inspired by what Xor is doing and try to similarly devote themselves to forcibly improving the American Legal System.
     
    Queshire said:
    So to be clear, all he did was remove OL's brand and now he's using honor-flavored social fu to try to get them on his side?
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    Seem to me more like he TOOK OVER OL's Brand so he is using a combo of Orange Light and "honor-flavored social fu" to reorder their minds so they see things more like he does.
     
    Ganurath said:
    I was taking the piss; nobody's too obscure for Young Justice.
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    I don't know, I'd be surprised if Zero-Man showed up in YJ.

    For those who don't click links, Zero-Man is a DC superhero who never actually made it to the page, but got referenced in Armageddon 2001 as a shout out to a similar concept.

    25th century USA is a dystopian nightmare, a scientist invents a time machine, and so his son grabs some goggles and wristbands to go back in time to set right once went wrong, with a government goon hot on his trail to make sure history follows course.

    So he's basically the anti-Booster Gold.
     
    Wow, I'll be honest, it's not often I look at a story and say "that's some really good character development".

    But I'm liking how Xor is learning here. I'm liking it a lot.


    Ct613hulu said:
    This would probably be overly disruptive to the setting to be practical, but I would be very interested in seeing what happens if Guy and OL are inspired by what Xor is doing and try to similarly devote themselves to forcibly improving the American Legal System.
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    Well... I guess if OL merged with the Ophidian he could probably manage to brand 327 million people at the same time. But I doubt he could do it without the Snek, and the occasional bit of schizotech or the odd metahuman with brand-resistance might give him trouble.
     
    Ct613hulu said:
    This would probably be overly disruptive to the setting to be practical, but I would be very interested in seeing what happens if Guy and OL are inspired by what Xor is doing and try to similarly devote themselves to forcibly improving the American Legal System.
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    The legal system is fine the way it is. All that really needs to change at most is the type of people who get elected.for the legislature. At the very least they should be people who aren't all about party politics and don't try to game the system in ridiculously obvious ways. And the other main problem is how unsupervised state legislatures are. Very few people know who they voted for for state legislature, and that's where most laws are made.
     
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